Ok so: financing medical school has become real to me. For various reasons I have never previously had to take on student debt but I know what it's like to not have enough money. How much of a material burden is it to have say $X00,000 of med school debt exiting residency compared to say ~$80,000 compared to say $0? Like If my partner and I are both academic physicians will my debt impact my kids' quality of life or will having higher income make it so they can still say go to summer camp and be on the sports team and &c even if I'm still making payments on existing debt? Thanks!!
Is medical school debt like, real?
- Thread starter Z_C
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2010
- Messages
- 74,440
- Reaction score
- 119,441
Imagine you just went out and bought three Tesla S's via loans.
That's an avg medical school debt.
We're not talking about Monopoly money.
Check out the www.whitecoatinvestor.com
That's an avg medical school debt.
We're not talking about Monopoly money.
Check out the www.whitecoatinvestor.com
Hollow Knight
Effort beats talent
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2023
- Messages
- 806
- Reaction score
- 1,416
Like Goro said, just go read the white coat investor.
It’s still financially reasonable to go to medical school. A state MD is about $250,000, and that’s about how much a hospitalist or primary care physician makes in a year. You will be able to pay your loans off, but you won’t live in a mansion or be sending your kids to private schools necessarily (depends on what part of the country you live in).
The general rule of thumb is to not borrow over twice what you will make in a year. And now you see why DO/private school students (who borrow like $400,000 in many cases) don’t want to match pediatrics……..
Now, in the future? The debt is rising and the salaries are dropping. There will come a point where “normal people” have to join the military or something to afford to go to med school. But we aren’t there yet.
It’s still financially reasonable to go to medical school. A state MD is about $250,000, and that’s about how much a hospitalist or primary care physician makes in a year. You will be able to pay your loans off, but you won’t live in a mansion or be sending your kids to private schools necessarily (depends on what part of the country you live in).
The general rule of thumb is to not borrow over twice what you will make in a year. And now you see why DO/private school students (who borrow like $400,000 in many cases) don’t want to match pediatrics……..
Now, in the future? The debt is rising and the salaries are dropping. There will come a point where “normal people” have to join the military or something to afford to go to med school. But we aren’t there yet.
This response frankly comes across as needlessly dismissive and also doesn't really answer the question: "Can loan payments affect the ability of an attending physician to provide the best for their children and if so at what point?"
Thank you! : )
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2020
- Messages
- 108
- Reaction score
- 84
It’s great you are thinking about these things in advance whereas many do not and are shocked by the reality of their debts when it comes time to graduate. It is also important to put into perspective what the alternatives are. If you pursue medicine and end up making 500k a year in a high income specialty you need to weigh that against what your alternative income potential would be working in another field.
Medicine is a long term investment but offers certain benefits many fields do not such as job security and versatility. You want to make over a million dollars at a big law firm or bank? A) what’s the likelihood of achieving that (contrary to popular belief only the top % of people working in those industries are big earners) B) want to live anywhere in the country? Can’t do that when you are tied down to an industry that requires you to work in a major metropolitan area. C) personal satisfaction…is the lack of debt for a period of your life worth being miserable working in the alternative field?
You could create a financial model and figure all these variables out however it would be rough estimates. Long story short it’s a multifaceted decision. The earlier you have kids along this journey the more sacrifices that need to be made. Childcare, non-public education and other expenses start once they reach a certain age. If you are going to a high COA school where you need to take out 400k and are planning on pursuing a specialty making 200k a year that’s going to be very difficult.
There are also currently federal plans to help alleviate debt. On an income driven repayment plan and pursing PSLF you could be debt free after 10 years. You are a neurosurgeon and train for 7-8 years payments are low throughout that entire time then work for an eligible employer for 2-3 more years suddenly that 400k debt that you’ve only payed 150k off during training which has ballooned due to interest accumulation is gone after 2 years as an attending because of PSLF without any tax implications and you are making 700k. That debt won’t impact you any more than the reality of making a resident salary. However, the longevity of these programs are uncertain and if you are forced to deal with debt in the private sector you will pay all the money you take out back and a lot more. Which again depending on your salary and earning potential could or could not make it feasible. I hope this helps!
Medicine is a long term investment but offers certain benefits many fields do not such as job security and versatility. You want to make over a million dollars at a big law firm or bank? A) what’s the likelihood of achieving that (contrary to popular belief only the top % of people working in those industries are big earners) B) want to live anywhere in the country? Can’t do that when you are tied down to an industry that requires you to work in a major metropolitan area. C) personal satisfaction…is the lack of debt for a period of your life worth being miserable working in the alternative field?
You could create a financial model and figure all these variables out however it would be rough estimates. Long story short it’s a multifaceted decision. The earlier you have kids along this journey the more sacrifices that need to be made. Childcare, non-public education and other expenses start once they reach a certain age. If you are going to a high COA school where you need to take out 400k and are planning on pursuing a specialty making 200k a year that’s going to be very difficult.
There are also currently federal plans to help alleviate debt. On an income driven repayment plan and pursing PSLF you could be debt free after 10 years. You are a neurosurgeon and train for 7-8 years payments are low throughout that entire time then work for an eligible employer for 2-3 more years suddenly that 400k debt that you’ve only payed 150k off during training which has ballooned due to interest accumulation is gone after 2 years as an attending because of PSLF without any tax implications and you are making 700k. That debt won’t impact you any more than the reality of making a resident salary. However, the longevity of these programs are uncertain and if you are forced to deal with debt in the private sector you will pay all the money you take out back and a lot more. Which again depending on your salary and earning potential could or could not make it feasible. I hope this helps!
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2021
- Messages
- 4,809
- Reaction score
- 5,068
In short, live like a resident for a few years after you become an attending and don't start living a lavish lifestyle. The debt is something you will need to plan as a monthly expense like a mortgage payment on a house. In most cases, it shouldn't end up dominating your budget.
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2011
- Messages
- 25,979
- Reaction score
- 19,164
Paging @Big Time Hoosier . Someone wants an answer to this question...
I know that financial education is extremely poor (no pun intended) in the United States. Honestly we can't give you the specific advice you are looking for because we're not certified financial planners for your specific situation.
OF COURSE, loan repayment is a huge issue and the level of debt you carry does affect your ability to live comfortably given a specific cost of living area.
Look at the predental forums' discussions when it comes to student debt. They're looking into costs of attendance in the $500K+ range for many schools. Residency options in dentistry require ADDITIONAL tuition cost for the most part (no salary like in medical residencies). You bet there are similar people in dental school asking a similar question to you, and the overwhelming response is PICK THE CHEAPEST OPTION.
These are questions you and your partner need to discuss, ideally with your financial aid officer and perhaps a financial planner who works with residents and professionals. Read WCI to make sure you aren't coming in as a noobie. Also AAMC does a ton of work talking about options to finance your medical education.
Granted, the default rate for medical school graduates is very low compared to the rest of society (I have been told). But everyone must make some sacrifices.
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2015
- Messages
- 2,931
- Reaction score
- 8,136
OP, if it makes you feel any better, just be glad you’re not going to NYU or USC for dental school and looking to graduate with $750,000+ in student loans. Then imagine having to potentially borrow another $300,000+ to pay for a specialty residency.
Higher Ed is such a racket…
Big Hoss
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2011
- Messages
- 25,979
- Reaction score
- 19,164
How Gen Z's love of status is fueling a massive doctor shortage
America needs 90,000 more family doctors. Students who are currently in medical school have different priorities.
www.businessinsider.com
Gen Z’s net worth is being undercut by college debt
Generation Z, with members aged 11 to 26 years old, is the most recent generation to enter the workforce. Experts say their financial futures are uncertain.
www.wusf.org
An anecdote for the OP also, with a note we're talking about a huge generational difference. One of the PI's I worked for was a leader of his hospital's clinical service, ran a lab, and was well-acknowledged and funded by federal grants and industry partnerships. He was married and had a couple of children who were typically involved in activities through high school. He unfortunately passed away a relatively young professor with tenure in his mid-50's (I think). He had just paid off his educational debt a few years before.
I don't have (or can't share) how much his family had in wealth before going to undergrad or medical school. He worked extremely hard to get to where he was, and he was savvy enough to build his lab and programs to the point where he could provide for his family. If you both work hard, I'm sure you can make it, but it may involve much more help than you can foresee to position yourself and your family to live a more comfortable life. I don't know what your parental (both sides) resources are to get you through your education and training, but there is a reason about half of all medical students come from the upper 20% of income.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2018
- Messages
- 399
- Reaction score
- 239
Medical school debt is real but it’s not impossible to manage, especially with a solid physician salary. Afterall, it's an investment. If you live below your means for a few years after residency, you might be able to pay off the debt without sacrificing too much in terms of quality of life for your family. Key is planning, budgeting, and being mindful of your spending as you transition to attending.
