Best friend dismissed from medical school - options?

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Greengardener

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Hello friends,

My best friend has recently been dismissed from medical school for a false (and I mean false) accusation of academic dishonesty. I can say with 100% certainty that she was not dishonest and she even took a polygraph test to prove it and went through excruciating lengths to prove her honesty. The school (which is a low-lower mid tier) wasn't having any of it, and even after appeal they still dismissed her and even denied her from submitting more of her evidence that she was in fact not dishonest (psychiatric documentation, the polygraph results etc.). She was not a bad student and received grades in the low 70s, but at our school the mean/average is mid-low 70s on exams. She received a Bachelor's degree in Biology with a GPA of 3.77 in 2 years with a MCAT score of a 30 (she was in a BS/MD program out of high school - our school doesn't have strict MCAT requirements). She still really wants to become a doctor and is passionate about it, so I was wondering where she should start and if any medical schools (DO?) would even accept her again (through traditional application) or consider her as an applicant after this horrible accusation. She has told me she is more than willing to go back to school and get a Master’s degree if necessary to get back into medical school. This happened a month ago during our first year of medical school. Please help her, she has been my best friend for a long time and I only want her to succeed in life, I feel so bad for her being in this sad situation.

Thank you in advance and I appreciate any advice I could pass on to her.
 
Hello friends,

My best friend has recently been dismissed from medical school for a false (and I mean false) accusation of academic dishonesty. I can say with 100% certainty that she was not dishonest and she even took a polygraph test to prove it and went through excruciating lengths to prove her honesty. The school (which is a low-lower mid tier) wasn't having any of it, and even after appeal they still dismissed her and even denied her from submitting more of her evidence that she was in fact not dishonest (psychiatric documentation, the polygraph results etc.). She was not a bad student and received grades in the low 70s, but at our school the mean/average is mid-low 70s on exams. She received a Bachelor's degree in Biology with a GPA of 3.77 in 2 years with a MCAT score of a 30 (she was in a BS/MD program out of high school - our school doesn't have strict MCAT requirements). She still really wants to become a doctor and is passionate about it, so I was wondering where she should start and if any medical schools (DO?) would even accept her again (through traditional application) or consider her as an applicant after this horrible accusation. She has told me she is more than willing to go back to school and get a Master’s degree if necessary to get back into medical school. This happened a month ago during our first year of medical school. Please help her, she has been my best friend for a long time and I only want her to succeed in life, I feel so bad for her being in this sad situation.

Thank you in advance and I appreciate any advice I could pass on to her.
I don't know if this is too late, but is she able to get a legal opinion? If money is an issue, there should be some pro bono student legal services at a local law school (usually run by law students if I'm not mistaken).
 
Damn, I don't really have much to say, except that this type of stuff is really the only thing I truly don't like about medical education. You are first completely owned by your med school and reliant on them, and second you are then owned by your residency PD for 3-7 years. Obviously, seems like most come out fine but its disturbing nonetheless.
 
There's two sides to every story. I'm willing to bet this isn't the whole picture. Your "best friend" isn't getting into another school. Best thing to do would be try to rectify what she's done, which it sounds like she tried and failed. Time to cut losses and move on.
 
Thank you for your help. I think her mom had a lawyer at one point, I do not know how that ended. I will definitely suggest to her to talk to a law school for some pro bono work I think that is a great idea.
I don't know if this is too late, but is she able to get a legal opinion? If money is an issue, there should be some pro bono student legal services at a local law school (usually run by law students if I'm not mistaken).
 
Option A: Lawyer up
Option B: Welcome to the Caribbean
 
It's pretty clear that she already tried to "lawyer up" or she wouldn't have shown up with a polygraph tests results and other psychiatric "evidence" of innocence. I would point out that polygraphs really aren't accepted as accurate in most evidentiary settings, are certainly less compelling than actual hard or witness evidence, and it wasn't wrong for the school to ignore this, after consultation with their own lawyers.

That's all irrelevant now. I don't see a lot of options left. Have your "friend" cut her losses and find another career. Going overseas with this red flag on the record is not going to lead to a residency.
 
What kind of scenario could you prove innocence to academic dishonesty through submission of psychiatric assessments?
 
Hello friends,

My best friend has recently been dismissed from medical school for a false (and I mean false) accusation of academic dishonesty. I can say with 100% certainty that she was not dishonest and she even took a polygraph test to prove it and went through excruciating lengths to prove her honesty.

From the institutional standpoint there is no benefit to being capricious, especially with such a serious sanction. The unfortunate truth is that your friend likely did commit an offense, grave enough to get expelled three months in, and there is almost certainly some hard evidence to back this up. Most of my dismissal stories are vicarious, but they invariably include some type of smoking gun.
 
If working with children has taught me anything it's there are usually three sides. her side, his side and the truth. Most likely scenario is your friend did something at the very least borderline shady and is blowing smoke up your ass to save some embarrassment. You already laid out the motive, she's teetering on the edge of failure at any given time.
 
Definitely have to hear the full story on this one...


Exactly. If she is truly innocent, she needs to find a much better lawyer with more experience with this sort of thing.

If she was accused of academic dishonesty, why is the onus of proving she was not dishonest on her? The school is the one that should demonstrate that she was dishonest.

Yea, we don't know the whole story.

If, however, there was absolutely no academic dishonesty on her part, she needs to get some good legal help and any other help she can muster and keep fighting.

Like most things, however, it's all going to come down to the specifics. I will not, however, assume she was dishonest, If she procured a lawyer that felt that way or made that assumption, then she had the wrong lawyer. Let them prove she was academically dishonest.

She's going to need to find work if she hasn't a lot of money, b/c this kind of fight will cost her time, energy, and bucks and would ONLY be worth the fight IF she is truly not guilty.
 
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Thank you for your help. I think her mom had a lawyer at one point, I do not know how that ended. I will definitely suggest to her to talk to a law school for some pro bono work I think that is a great idea.


Even w/o the specifics, it sounds like she is going to need a lawyer w/ experience in this sort of thing, and that will most probably not come by way of gratis--unless there is something special going on or a powerful reason to make some lawyer spend a lot of time on this somehow.

Perhaps have her take a look at this:

https://www.thefire.org/fire-guides...ocess-and-fair-procedure-on-campus-full-text/

BUT, she definitely is only going to get a big financial and stress-filled hurt if she is not being COMPLETELY honest. A sound and reputable attorney needs to know exactly what's going on, and if s/he is worth anything, he/she will tell her that it's going to suck up a ton of money and time and stress for NOTHING if the details do not weigh in her favor.

True injustice? OK Fight to the hilt, but she needs to get real and know it is going to really cost A LOT and there are still no guarantees. If her innocence is dubious when the facts are put forth, then that's it and she is just going to have to move on with her life.
 
If it was me and I was legitimately 100% being screwed over, i.e. I did absolutely nothing and was being kicked out for nothing, I would fight it tooth and nail and take every legal action possible. I don't see any other option for her to become a doctor as other schools won't take her.

However, echoing the above statements, it's very hard to believe your friend was just an innocent person caught in a professionalism witch hunt. Even if it was something that I felt was maybe blown out of proportion, I doubt that there was truly no grounds to expel her whatsoever.
 
Exactly. If she is truly innocent, she needs to find a much better lawyer with more experience with this sort of thing.

If she was accused of academic dishonesty, why is the onus of proving she was not dishonest on her? The school is the one that should demonstrate that she was dishonest.

Yea, we don't know the whole story.

If, however, there was absolutely no academic dishonesty on her part, she needs to get some good legal help and any other help she can muster and keep fighting...

First, I agree with you that we don't know the whole story, and we don't know if her lawyer was any good. However I'm not sure the window of opportunity to get a new better lawyer and keep fighting is still open. Schools follow administrative process. You are given opportunity for hearing and due process. And then you get dismissed. there's not nearly as much that a "better" lawyer can do after the administrative process ends other than sue in court, where the remedy is generally money not re-admission. So the value of getting a new lawyer may not be there. Lawyers aren't magical creatures who can just wave their hands and fix things. They are powerful instruments that offer great value but only if used in appropriate settings and times. I think that time and place probably came and went here. (Sort of like a good student asking questions on SDN about the process only after being rejected from med school for a late application and just starting school offshore.)

Second, we know that the school had "evidence" of academic dishonesty in some form. We know they "proved their case" to their own satisfaction in their own academic hearing. We know this because OPs friend, presumably through her lawyer, tried to disputes this evidence with polygraph and psychiatric evidence. So no, the onus of making the case wasn't on her-- it only shifted to her to defend herself once the school presented some form of prima facie case. We don't know if their evidence was documents or witnesses or both, but we do know that there was an allegation of dishonesty/lying based on the evidence she countered with. so no the onus of "making the case" wasn't on her-- the case was made and the onus of defense was on her. I am "not assuming that she was dishonest" (let's assume she wasn't), but it's clear from the story that her school, in their academic hearing satisfied itself that they had grounds for dismissal. So that puts the burden on her, and frankly if she's running with lie detector evidence, not acceptable in most legal arenas, she likely has no legally admissible evidence.

While "keep fighting" sounds like empowering advice, I am foreseeing the potential for a protracted lawsuit, big legal expenses and probably no realistic way back into med school in the near term even if victorious. So the options really are to go offshore and hope some place needs a prelim badly enough in a few years that they'll overlook this dismissal (doubtful), or move on with her life. Sad but unfortunately true.
 
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Medical school & residency are too stressful already. Adding this to the challenge is not worth it. It's still early enough to move onto another career.
 
Colleges aren't really courts of law per say so while getting a lawyer might help...( I don't think so) the school is HIGHLY unlikely to change their decision. Your friend needs to move on their clinical medical career is over. However, she should come to the administration side of the business.
 
OP, even if medicine is over for your friend, I hope your friend will take it as a cloud with a silver lining. There are many who wish they hadn't gone to med school in the first place.

For example, not that I agree with everything, but this post "101 Things You Wish You Knew Before Starting Medical School" from the now defunct Med School Hell is worth considering:
1. If I had known what it was going to be like, I would never have done it.
2. You’ll study more than you ever have in your life.
3. Only half of your class will be in the top 50%. You have a 50% chance of being in the top half of your class. Get used to it now.
4. You don’t need to know anatomy before school starts. Or pathology. Or physiology.
5. Third year rotations will suck the life out you.
6. Several people from your class will have sex with each other. You might be one of the lucky participants.
7. You may discover early on that medicine isn’t for you.
8. You don’t have to be AOA or have impeccable board scores to match somewhere – only if you’re matching into radiology.
9. Your social life may suffer some.
10. Pelvic exams are teh suck.
11. You won’t be a medical student on the surgery service. You’ll be the retractor bitch.
12. Residents will probably ask you to retrieve some type of nourishment for them.
13. Most of your time on rotations will be wasted. Thrown away. Down the drain.
14. You’ll work with at least one attending physician who you’ll want to beat the **** out of.
15. You’ll work with at least three residents who you’ll want to beat the **** out of.
16. You’ll ask a stranger about the quality of their stools.
17. You’ll ask post-op patients if they’ve farted within the last 24 hours.
18. At some point during your stay, a stranger’s bodily fluids will most likely come into contact with your exposed skin.
19. Somebody in your class will flunk out of medical school.
20. You’ll work 14 days straight without a single day off. Probably multiple times.
21. A student in your class will have sex with an attending or resident.
22. After the first two years are over, your summer breaks will no longer exist. Enjoy them as much as you can.
23. You’ll be sleep deprived.
24. There will be times on certain rotations where you won’t be allowed to eat.
25. You will be pimped.
26. You’ll wake up one day and ask yourself is this really what you want out of life.
27. You’ll party a lot during the first two years, but then that pretty much ends at the beginning of your junior year.
28. You’ll probably change your specialty of choice at least 4 times.
29. You’ll spend a good deal of your time playing social worker.
30. You’ll learn that medical insurance reimbursement is a huge problem, particularly for primary care physicians.
31. Nurses will treat you badly, simply because you are a medical student.
32. There will be times when you’ll be ignored by your attending or resident.
33. You will develop a thick skin. If you fail to do this, you’ll cry often.
34. Public humiliation is very commonplace in medical training.
35. Surgeons are *******s. Take my word for it now.
36. OB/GYN residents are treated like ****, and that **** runs downhill. Be ready to pick it up and sleep with it.
37. It’s always the medical student’s fault.
38. Gunner is a derogatory word. It’s almost as bad as racial slurs.
39. You’ll look forward to the weekend, not so you can relax and have a good time but so you can catch up on studying for the week.
40. Your house might go uncleaned for two weeks during an intensive exam block.
41. As a medical student on rotations, you don’t matter. In fact, you get in the way and impede productivity.
42. There’s a fair chance that you will be physically struck by a nurse, resident, or attending physician. This may include slapped on the hand or kicked on the shin in order to instruct you to “move” or “get out of the way.”
43. Any really bad procedures will be done by you. The residents don’t want to do them, and you’re the low man on the totem pole. This includes rectal examinations and digital disimpactions.
44. You’ll be competing against the best of the best, the cream of the crop. This isn’t college where half of your classmates are idiots. Everybody in medical school is smart.
45. Don’t think that you own the world because you just got accepted into medical school. That kind of attitude will humble you faster than anything else.
46. If you’re in it for the money, there are much better, more efficient ways to make a living. Medicine is not one of them.
47. Anatomy sucks. All of the bone names sound the same.
48. If there is anything at all that you’d rather do in life, do not go into medicine.
49. The competition doesn't end after getting accepted to medical school. You’ll have to compete for class rank, awards, and residency. If you want to do a fellowship, you’ll have to compete for that too.
50. You’ll never look at weekends the same again.
51. VA hospitals suck. Most of them are old, but the medical records system is good.
52. Your fourth year in medical school will be like a vacation compared to the first three years. It’s a good thing too, because you’ll need one.
53. Somebody in your class will be known as the “highlighter *****.” Most often a female, she’ll carry around a backpack full of every highlighter color known to man. She’ll actually use them, too.
54. Rumors surrounding members of your class will spread faster than they did in high school.
55. You’ll meet a lot of cool people, many new friends, and maybe your husband or wife.
56. No matter how bad your medical school experience was at times, you’ll still be able to think about the good times. Kind of like how I am doing right now.
57. Your first class get-together will be the most memorable. Cherish those times.
58. Long after medical school is over, you’ll still keep in contact with the friends you made. I do nearly every day.
59. Gunners always sit in the front row. This rule never fails. However, not everyone who sits in the front row is a gunner.
60. There will be one person in your class who’s the coolest, most laid back person you’ve ever met. This guy will sit in the back row and throw paper airplanes during class, and then blow up with 260+ Step I’s after second year. True story.
61. At the beginning of first year, everyone will talk about how cool it’s going to be to help patients. At the end of third year, everybody will talk about how cool it’s going to be to make a lot of money.
62. Students who start medical school wanting to do primary care end up in dermatology. Those students who start medical school wanting to do dermatology end up in family medicine.
63. Telling local girls at the bar that you’re a medical student doesn’t mean ****. They’ve been hearing that for years. Be more unique.
64. The money isn’t really that good in medicine. Not if you look at it in terms of hours worked.
65. Don’t wear your white coat into the gas station, or any other business that has nothing to do with you wearing a white coat. You look like an a**, and people do make fun of you.
66. Don’t round on patients that aren’t yours. If you round on another student’s patients, that will spread around your class like fire after a 10 year drought. Your team will think you’re an idiot too.
67. If you are on a rotation with other students, don’t bring in journal articles to share with the team “on the fly” without letting the other students know. This makes you look like a gunner, and nobody likes a gunner. Do it once, and you might as well bring in a new topic daily. Rest assured that your fellow students will just to show you up.
68. If you piss off your intern, he or she can make your life hell.
69. If your intern pisses you off, you can make his or her life hell.
70. Don’t try to work during medical school. Live life and enjoy the first two years.
71. Not participating in tons of ECs doesn’t hurt your chances for residency. Forget the weekend free clinic and play some Frisbee golf instead.
72. Don’t rent an apartment. If you can afford to, buy a small home instead. I saved $200 per month and had roughly $30,000 in equity by choosing to buy versus rent.
73. Your family members will ask you for medical advice, even after your first week of first year.
74. Many of your friends will go onto great jobs and fantastic lifestyles. You’ll be faced with 4 more years of debt and then at least 3 years of residency before you’ll see any real earning potential.
75. Pick a specialty based around what you like to do.
76. At least once during your 4 year stay, you’ll wonder if you should quit.
77. It’s amazing how fast time flies on your days off. It’s equally amazing at how slow the days are on a rotation you hate.
78. You’ll learn to be scared of asking for time off.
79. No matter what specialty you want to do, somebody on an unrelated rotation will hold it against you.
80. A great way to piss off attendings and residents are to tell them that you don’t plan to complete a residency.
81. Many of your rotations will require you to be the “vitals b****.” On surgery, you’ll be the “retractor b****.”
82. Sitting around in a group and talking about ethical issues involving patients is not fun.
83. If an attending or resident treats you badly, call them out on it. You can get away with far more than you think.
84. Going to class is generally a waste of time. Make your own schedule and enjoy the added free time.
85. Find new ways to study. The methods you used in college may or may not work. If something doesn’t work, adapt.
86. Hospitals smell bad.
87. Subjective evaluations are just that – subjective. They aren’t your end all, be all so don’t dwell on a poor evaluation. The person giving it was probably an *******, anyway.
88. Some physicians will tell you it’s better than it really is. Take what you hear (both positive and negative) with a grain of salt.
89. 90% of surgeons are *******s, and 63% of statistics are made up. The former falls in the lucky 37%.
90. The best time of your entire medical school career is between the times when you first get your acceptance letter and when you start school.
91. During the summer before medical school starts, do not attempt to study or read anything remotely related to medicine. Take this time to travel and do things for you.
92. The residents and faculty in OB/GYN will be some of the most malignant personalities you’ve ever come into contact with.
93. Vaginal deliveries are messy. So are c-sections. It’s just an all-around blood fest if you like that sort of thing.
94. Despite what the faculty tell you, you don’t need all of the fancy equipment that they suggest for you to buy. All you need is a stethoscope. The other equipment they say you “need” is standard in all clinic and hospital exam rooms. If it’s not standard, your training hospital and clinics suck.
95. If your school has a note taking service, it’s a good idea to pony up the cash for it. It saves time and gives you the option of not attending lecture.
96. Medicine is better than being a janitor, but there were times when I envied the people cleaning the hospital trash cans.
97. Avoid surgery like the plague.
98. See above and then apply it to OB/GYN as well.
99. The money is good in medicine, but it’s not all that great especially considering the amount of time that you’ll have to work.
100. One time an HIV+ patient ripped out his IV and then “slung” his blood at the staff in the room. Go, go infectious disease.
101. Read Med School Hell now, throughout medical school, and then after you’re done. Then come back and tell me how right I am.
 
@Greengardener, we need more info before we can properly advise you. I think we all lean toward the idea that she actually cheated, but if you can provide information to sway us the other way, we'd love to hear it.

What do you know about what happened?
 
Hello everyone thank you for all your replies.

My friend did not cheat I would like to clarify that. Secondly, she has more proof than what I listed in my original post. The only thing I can say more is that she has statistical evidence that proves her innocence in the cheating accusation that was performed by a creditable statistician. The school would not let her use this evidence in proving her innocence. I believe this may be because the school was discriminating against her due to the fact she has a mental illness (I cannot disclose which one, but it is not too serious). Also, the school is currently being "watched" due to academic underperformance, which may have played a role in the discrimination. I can't give you any more information at risk of her identity being exposed. Thank you for all your help again. If you really would like to help, please message my inbox or post in this thread. Thanks.
 
62. Students who start medical school wanting to do primary care end up in dermatology. Those students who start medical school wanting to do dermatology end up in family medicine.

62. Students who start medical school wanting to do primary care end up in dermatology. Those students who start medical school wanting to do dermatology end up in family medicine.

^^^
Interesting... some truth to that tbh
 
A credible statistician? How the hell is that going to help? well there's a 47% confidence interval that she didn't cheat on her test based on how fast she could google and her internet connection at the time.
 
This makes even less sense. If she was cheating on a computerized exam, there really good controls built into the system that can pick up when you put in answers and can compare them to everyone else's. This is the first thing that popped into my mind, but her situation might be different.

To follow up what I posted above, it's harder to get out of medical school than to get in. Meaning, once we accept you, we do everything in our power to make sure you get that diploma. The school must have had some damning evidence beyond your insinuation of the fear that "she's mentally ill and therefore she going to screw up our Step I pass rate!"

Dismissals are not capricious nor arbitrary.

PM me if you want to share more sensitive details for further input.


Hello everyone thank you for all your replies.

My friend did not cheat I would like to clarify that. Secondly, she has more proof than what I listed in my original post. The only thing I can say more is that she has statistical evidence that proves her innocence in the cheating accusation that was performed by a creditable statistician. The school would not let her use this evidence in proving her innocence. I believe this may be because the school was discriminating against her due to the fact she has a mental illness (I cannot disclose which one, but it is not too serious). Also, the school is currently being "watched" due to academic underperformance, which may have played a role in the discrimination. I can't give you any more information at risk of her identity being exposed. Thank you for all your help again. If you really would like to help, please message my inbox or post in this thread. Thanks.
 
I don't have much to contribute, but I just want to say that whenever I see threads like this I get scared even though I've never cheated in my life. It's kind of like when I see a police officer - I get scared even though I haven't done anything wrong.
 
I don't have much to contribute, but I just want to say that whenever I see threads like this I get scared even though I've never cheated in my life. It's kind of like when I see a police officer - I get scared even though I haven't done anything wrong.

I was thinking the same thing. It's the off-chance that OP is telling the truth and she actually is innocent that really scares me. What if I'm fourth year and some jerk prof/student makes a claim on hear-say that gets me kicked out? $300K gone.
 
From talking to grad students, it's pretty hard to nail someone for cheating without hard evidence. There was a student who kept submitting their test for regrading and it seemed suspicious so one time they photocopied his test and compared it to the resubmitted test, which showed that he was changing answers before resubmitting.
 
...Secondly, she has more proof than what I listed in my original post. The only thing I can say more is that she has statistical evidence that proves her innocence in the cheating accusation that was performed by a creditable statistician. The school would not let her use this evidence in proving her innocence...
Statistics, like polygraph tests are not going to be an admissible form of "proof" here. the schools appropriately ignored this evidence because a court would as well.
 
I don't have much to contribute, but I just want to say that whenever I see threads like this I get scared even though I've never cheated in my life. It's kind of like when I see a police officer - I get scared even though I haven't done anything wrong.

this week should probably have told you that's probably a good instinct.
 
I know I'm late to this conversation, but it is profoundly difficult to be dismissed for academic dishonesty, or other issues related to professionalism. Because of their exposure/liability, the school's lawyers would strongly recommend overwhelming evidence that goes beyond the standards required for proof in civil or criminal proceedings. It's much much better for the school to quietly graduate a dishonest student, then to lose an expensive and public court case for unjustified expulsion.

If your friend is truly innocent, she should consult with a new (and better) lawyer.
 
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