Best Match List

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
F

Falco2525

Full Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
1,285
Reaction score
11
Okay guys here is a question...which school have you seen that has the best match list? Also why is it so good? And if you have multiple ones rank them!

Best Match List:
Members don't see this ad.
 
Vanderbilt claimed:

A) AAMC ranks the match lists for each medical school each year.
B) Vanderbilt had the best match list in the country.
 
Falco2525 said:
Okay guys here is a question...which school have you seen that has the best match list? Also why is it so good? And if you have multiple ones rank them!

Best Match List:
Click to expand...

columbia had a sick matchlist. they had 8 go into neurosurgery. pretty much a surgery powerhouse in general.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
I dont think general proclamations about match lists are very useful. Schools that enroll candidates with better numbers will generally match into better institutions overall, but if you look at matches for specific residencies, you'll be surprised. For instance, Rosalind Franklin has a remarkable match list for Ortho, routinely sending people to Stanford, Northwestern, et. Last year 6 people got into derm from Emory. That just unheard of.
 
This question has no answer. You do realize that, right? There is not a school with the "best" match list since the match list depends on so many factors....and even after that it depends on what match list has things that you're interested in on it.
 
At my University of Michigan interview, the admissions director said that Umich was ranked
3rd (tied with another school) in the country for med schools by residency directors. Does anyone know where this full ranking list can be found or what other schools have high rankings? It seems like this ranking system would correlate with match lists.
 
UTpremed said:
This question has no answer. You do realize that, right? There is not a school with the "best" match list since the match list depends on so many factors....and even after that it depends on what match list has things that you're interested in on it.
Click to expand...

I agree. With very few exceptions (For instance Columbia being a powerhouse for surgery matches) there really isn't a big correlation. As long as you go to a respectable school, and do well- you'll match well. It depends on USMLE, it depends on recs, it depends on more ECs. Putting so much faith on medical school for matching is like putting faith in the UG for correlation with med school. It works on an individual bases. Yes, you will see that top schools get top matches, but that is because those top schools accepted top students, who because they are smart- were able to get those residencies. It's based on individual basis: Whether you go to BU or Columbia, if you score 99% on USMLE, you will get in to neurosurgery as long as everything is in order.
 
Niki21 said:
At my University of Michigan interview, the admissions director said that Umich was ranked
3rd (tied with another school) in the country for med schools by residency directors. Does anyone know where this full ranking list can be found or what other schools have high rankings? It seems like this ranking system would correlate with match lists.
Click to expand...

US News publishes "residency directors rankings" for both their research and primary care rankings. However, I'm not sure if that's what the admissions director at UMich was talking about, b/c they're not ranked 3rd in either.

Anyway, for research, the top schools (according to residency director's rankings) are:
Harvard
Hopkins and Duke
UCSF and Stanford
Wash U and UMich
UPenn and Columbia

For primary care:
University of Washington
Oregon Health and Sciences University
Michigan State
UNC and UWisconsin-Madison
 
diosa428 said:
US News publishes "residency directors rankings" for both their research and primary care rankings. However, I'm not sure if that's what the admissions director at UMich was talking about, b/c they're not ranked 3rd in either.
Click to expand...

On my interview day, the admissions director said Michigan is in the top five which they are according to this, so I'm pretty sure this ranking is the one he's talking about. Even though they're fourth in it, these rankings are obviously fluid and I'm sure they change from year to year, since the third and fourth ranked school are only separated by 0.1.
 
There is no such thing. If the schools know they have the "best" match list you will not have to look for that information because it will be all over their front page. School name might help, but you are going to determine your own fate for the most part.
 
Harvard, BY FAR. If you go to Harvard, you are virtually guaranteed to get a Harvard residency. Over 55% of Harvard students stay for residency. Another 15% or so go to UCSF. The rest go to "lesser" places like Hopkins, Bascom Palmer, Stanford, etc.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Towelie said:
Harvard, BY FAR. If you go to Harvard, you are virtually guaranteed to get a Harvard residency. Over 55% of Harvard students stay for residency. Another 15% or so go to UCSF. The rest go to "lesser" places like Hopkins, Bascom Palmer, Stanford, etc.
Click to expand...

Once again, there is no such thing as a "best" match list. What if you don't WANT to go to Harvard for residency? What if you're from SoCal and think moving to the NE would be a death sentence b/c of the weather? So, it might be the best match list for T., but def. not for everyone.

But I do think you bring up one very good point. It's not like Harvard is the only school that keeps a lot of its students. From what I have seen, most medical schools do that. So if you absolutely love an area/school, do consider the fact that actually going to med school there will give you a greater chance of getting to know the right people and landing a residency spot there.

OK, time to wake my brain up and start the cramming.....microanatomy is my nemesis [until tomorrow, when anther subject takes over].
 
UTpremed said:
Once again, there is no such thing as a "best" match list. What if you don't WANT to go to Harvard for residency? What if you're from SoCal and think moving to the NE would be a death sentence b/c of the weather? So, it might be the best match list for T., but def. not for everyone.

But I do think you bring up one very good point. It's not like Harvard is the only school that keeps a lot of its students. From what I have seen, most medical schools do that. So if you absolutely love an area/school, do consider the fact that actually going to med school there will give you a greater chance of getting to know the right people and landing a residency spot there.

OK, time to wake my brain up and start the cramming.....microanatomy is my nemesis [until tomorrow, when anther subject takes over].
Click to expand...

Harvard keeps more of its students than any other school. And, clearly, Harvard students could easily get SoCal residencies if they want. It has the best match list, because it is the most respected school.

Note: Unless you want to do primary care. Then go wherever.
 
UTpremed said:
But I do think you bring up one very good point. It's not like Harvard is the only school that keeps a lot of its students. From what I have seen, most medical schools do that. So if you absolutely love an area/school, do consider the fact that actually going to med school there will give you a greater chance of getting to know the right people and landing a residency spot there.
Click to expand...

It's hard to know if this reflects a greater chance of getting in, or is more a function of more people ranking their home school highly. If a bunch of people at XYZ school want to stay local, because they like the area, or they own a home, or they have family there, or spouse/SO working there who doesn't want to quit a job, etc, then they probably try to match at their home school. So you never will know from the match list whether they could have matched elsewhere. And this isn't really a rarity -- many people in med school are married or have other "encumbrances". Not everyone choosing residencies is single and 23 and indifferent about moving to a job. You will also come across people who will use location as an aid in choosing specialties in this way, which skews the results (some people would rather shoot for a less competitive specialty in eg Chicago where their spouse lives than risk gambling on a more competitive field and end up only getting interviews in the boonies. The number of people in med school who, by 4th year have spouses, SOs, etc. that limit their choices geographically is not insignificant.
 
Towelie said:
Harvard, BY FAR. If you go to Harvard, you are virtually guaranteed to get a Harvard residency. Over 55% of Harvard students stay for residency. Another 15% or so go to UCSF. The rest go to "lesser" places like Hopkins, Bascom Palmer, Stanford, etc.
Click to expand...

You do your residency at a hospital, not a med school. So your claim that >55% of Harvard students stay for residency is inaccurate.

Second, the name of the affiliated med school has no bearing on the reputation of a certain residency program.

Third, Harvard med students aren't guaranteed their pick of residency programs, just like Harvard undergrads aren't guaranteed their their pick of med schools.

Fourth, some residency programs only have 1 or 2 positions each year, so they are much more concerned with the quality of the individual than the reputation of their med school.

Fifth, ranking match lists is just plain stupid.
 
TheMightyAngus said:
You do your residency at a hospital, not a med school. So your claim that >55% of Harvard students stay for residency is inaccurate.

Second, the name of the affiliated med school has no bearing on the reputation of a certain residency program.

Third, Harvard med students aren't guaranteed their pick of residency programs, just like Harvard undergrads aren't guaranteed their their pick of med schools.

Fourth, some residency programs only have 1 or 2 positions each year, so they are much more concerned with the quality of the individual than the reputation of their med school.

Fifth, ranking match lists is just plain stupid.
Click to expand...

#1: Harvard is affiliated with lots of teaching hospitals: BIDMC, MGH, BWH, ME&E, DFCI
#2: agreed, but it is a safe bet that BWH has a stronger reputation than university of south dakota (there are notable exceptions, iowa has some very strong programs)
#3: there is a much stronger relationship between residency program and medical school than ugrad and medical school anywhere
#4: I agree. However, big programs (IM, for instance) often tend to give their own graduates a very strong look; nsurgery not so much
#5: I agree. Some degree of subjectivity involved.
 
Lorienne7 said:
On my interview day, the admissions director said Michigan is in the top five which they are according to this, so I'm pretty sure this ranking is the one he's talking about. Even though they're fourth in it, these rankings are obviously fluid and I'm sure they change from year to year, since the third and fourth ranked school are only separated by 0.1.
Click to expand...

Actually, technically they would be tied for sixth, not fouth, as there are 5 schools above them. But yes, I see what you're saying.
 
So I should have asked...which schools have students match in to the toughest residency programs (Derm, Neurosurgery, Surgery, etc.) and a second question be which match at the toughest locations to get into...I agree that you can get into any residecny position from any school, but it is clear that some schools have more students matching into the tougher catagories than others...that is all that I was asking
 
Smokey said:
#1: Harvard is affiliated with lots of teaching hospitals: BIDMC, MGH, BWH, ME&E, DFCI
Click to expand...

Yeah, but you don't "do your residency at Harvard." These hospitals are funded and managed independently from the university/med school.

The Methodist Hospital in Houston is affiliated with Cornell Medical College. But you don't say that you are staying at Cornell, if you do your residency in Texas. Get my drift?
 
Falco2525 said:
So I should have asked...which schools have students match in to the toughest residency programs (Derm, Neurosurgery, Surgery, etc.) and a second question be which match at the toughest locations to get into...I agree that you can get into any residecny position from any school, but it is clear that some schools have more students matching into the tougher catagories than others...that is all that I was asking
Click to expand...


This is more a function of the increased overall aptitude and motivation of the incoming class than of the school itself. Again, a lot of schools 'recycle their own trash,' that is, they take a certain number of kids from their medical school into the toughest residency programs at their teaching hospitals. For instance, Detroit Medical Center and SUNY Downstate routinely take ~ 2 people into Ortho and Derm from Wayne State and Downstate (not the most reknowned med schools), respectively.

Thats not always true of the other, higher ranked schools. So if you really, really wanted to match into Derm in NYC, your best bet may be Downstate, since

a) derm is such a crapshoot
b) all you would have to do is make it into the top 5% of your Downstate class and/or be one of the top two derm applicants from Downstate that year
c) Downstate's Derm Dept will take 1-2 people from Downstate every year

And before people start flaming about how its not easy to be in the top 5% at Downstate, et, et, remember that if you want to get into something like Derm, you're going to have to be in the top 5% of your class anyway. It would be easier doing this at Downstate than, say, Columbia or Cornell.

This also applies to other Residency-Locale combinations.
 
What about the percentage of applicants that matched into their first choice (or into one of their top three choices) from X med school? This number would give us a better sense of how successful this med school is in getting its students into their top choices. Plus, using the regular match list you could make sure that the residencies they're getting into are quality ones (ie Podunk Med School's high % is not because lots of people want and end up in Podunk UMC's residency). Wouldn't that be more useful to look at? Is this data even available?
 
TheMightyAngus said:
Yeah, but you don't "do your residency at Harvard." These hospitals are funded and managed independently from the university/med school.

The Methodist Hospital in Houston is affiliated with Cornell Medical College. But you don't say that you are staying at Cornell, if you do your residency in Texas. Get my drift?
Click to expand...

Yes, you do "do your residency at Harvard." Ask a doctor who did his/her residency at MGH or BWH where they did their residency. I'll bet you $100 that they say "Harvard," rather than the name of the Hospital. Same goes with virtually every other major medical center in the country. Your Cornell example is one extreme, irrelevant case.

Over 55% of Harvard graduates stay at Harvard-affiliated institutions. There is a huge institutional bias at these hospitals--far more than any other school that I have seen. This is a very good thing for HMS graduates, since BWH and MGH are both among the top 10 hospitals in the country.
 
Falco2525 said:
So I should have asked...which schools have students match in to the toughest residency programs (Derm, Neurosurgery, Surgery, etc.) and a second question be which match at the toughest locations to get into...I agree that you can get into any residecny position from any school, but it is clear that some schools have more students matching into the tougher catagories than others...that is all that I was asking
Click to expand...
Surgery is not a tough residency program. IIRC, spots are left unfilled every year.
 
Towelie said:
Yes, you do "do your residency at Harvard." Ask a doctor who did his/her residency at MGH or BWH where they did their residency. I'll bet you $100 that they say "Harvard," rather than the name of the Hospital.
Click to expand...

If this is true, then you should see the name "Harvard" mentioned when doctors list their residency program on a CV. I'm sure some doctors do, but it isn't the norm.

Make that check out to Mighty Angus.

http://www.radonc.duke.edu/modules/radoncfaculty/index.php?id=2

http://www.boston-neurosurg.org/faculty/black.html

http://www.sd-neurosurgeon.com/ott.html
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

D
Learning how to match
Replies
3
Views
595
Mr.Smile12
Mr.Smile12
D
Time/money vs match history
Replies
11
Views
1K
LeaveNoTrace
L
T
Noob Qs: what makes a match list insane/ok?
Replies
4
Views
542
Med Ed
Med Ed
toastedbutter
Best way to alert schools to mistake in hours listed for submitted application activity
Replies
6
Views
857
Moko
Moko
D
TMDSAS Match with IA
Replies
2
Views
705
dosh24
D
Top