BEST prgm in state of Illinois

[SLUsagar]

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so what's the best program in the state of Illinois....

is it clearly U chicago over Northwestern...or vice versa?

yaah (and others of course!), i believe you visited both from reading old posts....any comments???

 

[yaah]

Depends what yer lookin' for. Both are good programs and will train you well. I can't speak from huge expertise since I only visited each once, during my interview day. U Chi is an improving program, lots of new faculty (including Dr Kumar, Dr Krausz, new CP director Dr Miller) and new facilities (grossing facilities and conference room facilities second to none). They are interested in researchers although that doesn't mean you have to be a researcher to get in. The PD and the chair disagree a bit on what kind of residents they want to recruit so I think they kind of split the difference (researchers vs private practice types). U Chi is not in the nicest location but the hospital is nice. And their volume, while not huge like other large academic centers, has a lot of variety and you won't miss much. They had a rough few years in the past and I think they are still trying to recover (didn't get a lot of their first choice residents and had lots of faculty turnover I believe). Thus, the new classes of residents are probably top shelf. Lots of opportunities for research and "bettering yourself."

Northwestern also has a research track program, but they tend to get more of the private practice type folks. Similarly, lots of great attendings who enjoy teaching. Facilities in terms of the hospital and the surrounding area are quite impressive (think lots of marble and windows). Right on the magnificent mile. Perhaps a little more expensive than U Chi but more convenient unless you like Hyde Park better. Northwestern has some great attendings like Dr Rao, for one.

Both of them the residents seemed to work hard although not as strenuous in terms of service work as the programs in the northeast. U Chi really doesn't have many fellows - I think they have a cyto fellowship but it is mostly aimed at people who want cyto training for private practice (run by DeMay, who I believe looks to have fellows looking towards private practice). They may have a surg path fellow but I seem to remember there wasn't one. Might have been a GI fellow - good GI path there. If you know anything about residency programs you will figure out that when a program has lots of fellows it is potentially good but also potentially a drawback to regular resident training. Case in point is some of the Boston programs where the interaction is more hierarchical (residents sign out with fellows; fellows sign out with attendings). At least, this is how Boston programs have been in the past, but MGH at least has a bit more attending interaction.

I don't know about the other Chicago programs, I applied to Rush but didn't pursue the interview because it was sent to me so late, after I had already heard from every other program. I have heard the Rush program is quite good because of the large referral base to the hospital (i.e. lots of interesting cases and veteran attendings).

As I have said before, I strongly considered U Chi mostly because of two of the attendings I met there (Dr Krausz and Dr Hart) and eventually decided against it due to the location and getting a not-so-great vibe from the other residents about how the residents all interacted with each other. Judge for yourself though, don't take my word for it. Like I said I think it is a high powered program that is improving a lot every year. Hopefully they will have a fellowship I can apply for (maybe). Northwestern I liked (a great PD there) but I am not really a city-living person, at least at this point in my life, and while it was an impressive program overall, nothing stood out to me as a reason I should drop my attractions to other programs.

 

[tsj]

so what's the best program in the state of Illinois....

is it clearly U chicago over Northwestern...or vice versa?

yaah (and others of course!), i believe you visited both from reading old posts....any comments???

let me just rattle off some things I remember about each.

They are both strong programs and both have good surgery departments obtaining specimens for them.

University of Chicago might have a few bigger names and did have spanking new facilities. Northwestern's hospital is very new also and they were just completing a new research building and in the process of building the nation's biggest women's hospital.

So facilities and specimens are more or less a toss up.

University of Chicago is located in an historic southside neighborhood loaded with intellectuals (Don't forget that U of C has produced 75 NObel prize winners, with Oxford being #2 at 45). So if you enjoy a quiet university neighborhood, you can't do much better than Hyde Park.

Northwestern is DOWNTOWN. It is a skyscraper hospital (the tallest in North America) surrounded by some of the most historic and beautiful skyscrapers in the world (Hancock, Tribune, Sears, Wrigley Building, 860/888 LSD, etc...), so it is a really exciting place. There are a couple buildings going up soon in Chicago that will give Chicago 5 of North America's 7 tallest buildings (ESB and Freedom Tower will be the other 2). Plus you are adjacent to Michigan Ave, Millennium Park, Museum of Contemporary Art, Art Institute, Lyric Opera, Chicago symphony orchestra, Grant Part Orchestra, Chicago Ballet, Joffrey Ballet, Field Museum, in other words you are surrounded by big time world class cultural institutions. Plus there is so much development in Chicago. You could easily rent a nice pad in a skyscraper or, with a little help, buy yourself a cool loft adjacent to downtown.

Either program would welcome and support a resident who wants to do research, I don't know about the U of C residents, but it seemed the Northwestern residents were 100% community practice oriented. So take that for what it is worth.

Chicago is such a great city, some of the best culture, nightlife, and restauarants in the country.

U of C might be a little better of a program for academic environment, but I would pick Northwestern for urban amenities.

 

[Speck]

I just spent some time at U chicago and I got the feeling that it definitely has undergone some dramatic changes recently.

Dr. Kumar has made a committment to center the focus of the department on resident training. Like most academic programs they guarantee residents two years of salary support to conduct research. The gross room is also very friendly to residents (they have great facilities and soon will hire a second PA). They also have this amazing 18-headed microscope at which various attendings sit down with residents to go over interesting cases. In addition there is a quality assurance conference every day where attendings and residents meet to decide the diagnosis on some of the more difficult cases of the day.

All the attendings I met with were very nice and were extremely happy with the direction that Dr. Kumar is leading the department. I do agree that they haven't yet decided what kind of residents they want to train. But it seems that they prefer the academic type (half of the current first years have PhDs). I didn't spend anytime in cytopath but I did spend some time in Hemepath and I think that U chicago might have the best hemepath faculty in the country (Dr. Vardiman is there). I also agree with previous posts that Dr. Krausz in a very impressive surgical pathologist.

I came away from Chicago with the feeling that everyone is on the same page; however, there might be some residents/attendings around from the pre-Kumar era that might not be too happy with the current direction.

-I think that I have said enough 🙂

 

[Doctor B.]

I believe there is also a Northwestern residency in Evanston. I'm not sure how they stack up.

 

[SLUsagar]

I believe there is also a Northwestern residency in Evanston. I'm not sure how they stack up.

--- i unfortunetly found this out the HARD way doctorB...i didn't realize that the "NW" i was applying to was not the big NW - and instead the one you are referring to in Evanston...

stupid me...
i ALSO accidently clicked on Univ of Illinois in Chicago instead of Univ of Chicago...

so, 30 bones down the drain on having to [re-] apply to NW and univ of Chicago...

question: not nec related to the by-mistake programs i applied to (although i'll need to do for these)...
HOW do you tell a program that you don't plan on interviewing w/them?

[b/c you are all interviewed out, already happy w/another prgm, OR, like friggggin stupid me, by accident applied]

 

[yaah]

Just tell them you're not going to interview with them. I turned down a couple of interview offers, and cancelled a few others. They don't want you to come interview if you aren't interested. Just say your plans have changed or whatever. If you are sure now that you don't want to go there, you could also write to them now and let them know you applied by mistake. They aren't going to put your name on a giant blacklist for other programs to notice too.

Remember: Programs reject applicants too. Feel free to reject them. Just be nice about it.

 

[Patholo-gyst]

Rush is a great program. Why don't people consider it with Northwestern and UChicago when they mention Chicago? I interviewed there and was very impressed. (In fact, last year they got the people that Northwestern wanted to match into their program.) Rush is very resident-centered--they have a great residents room with their own cubicles and new computers on everyone's desk. The atmosphere, though, is pretty tough. The residents said they felt like they had to be "on" every day for confrences and sign-out. The seniors are VERY sharp. They feel a good amount of pressure, and people on some rotations were visibly stressed out. Still, they have a lot of one-on-one time with the attendings and tons of cases. The attendings get consult cases from all over the world, and the residents take on those cases too. Rush is getting harder to match into, though. They have a lot of inside cantidates and they have matched very well the past two years.

I interviewed at Northwestern too. Their program seemed good, and the residents seemed happy, aside from a few gripes here and there and a few long hour rotations. It seemed to me, though, that all of their really intensive teaching was done by one attending (Dr. Rao?). He spent tons of time with the residents, but it seemed like a lot of the other attendings had their own pet projects and labs and they would spend time with you if you worked on their research, but maybe not so much otherwise. I heard a lot of rumblings about residents having a rough workload, and things have not been so happy since last year's match (they didn't fill). It is a very famous place and you can probably get great training there.

Evanston seemed like a great place, too. The only thing is this: it is a community program, and isn't as competitive when you apply for fellowships. They have someone there who is a groundbreaking molecular diagnostics researcher. She seemed very interested in getting residents involved.

Just my opinions based on interviews last year and things I've heard since then.

 

[desmangt]

Rush is a great program. Why don't people consider it with Northwestern and UChicago when they mention Chicago?

Yeah, I heard that RUSH had a very strong program as well.

 

[veo1]

As the new application season is upon us, anyone have more info/insight into the Chicago programs? I know I can't be the only one applying in Chicago this year. Did the U of Chi finally get their act together? Anyone interview/currently at Rush? Are there any positives to take away from NW besides location and the new hospital (e.g. the quality of the program/accessibilty to fellowships)??!! I'm beginning to stress out as I can only realistically apply to two programs (I live in the South and couldn't possibly go through three interviews). I've spent time at U of Chi, Rush, NW, and Loyola med schools and must say I came away from the experience with the most favorable opinion of Rush. The med school faculty were very knowledgable and laid back, but of course the u of chi name speaks for itself (or so it seems). Also I'm curious about the housing situation at u of chi. The graduate housing options they have in hyde park seem rather shabby. Hope someone can help. Good luck to everyone applying this year.

 

[LADoc00]

As the new application season is upon us, anyone have more info/insight into the Chicago programs? I know I can't be the only one applying in Chicago this year. Did the U of Chi finally get their act together? Anyone interview/currently at Rush? Are there any positives to take away from NW besides location and the new hospital (e.g. the quality of the program/accessibilty to fellowships)??!! I'm beginning to stress out as I can only realistically apply to two programs (I live in the South and couldn't possibly go through three interviews). I've spent time at U of Chi, Rush, NW, and Loyola med schools and must say I came away from the experience with the most favorable opinion of Rush. The med school faculty were very knowledgable and laid back, but of course the u of chi name speaks for itself (or so it seems). Also I'm curious about the housing situation at u of chi. The graduate housing options they have in hyde park seem rather shabby. Hope someone can help. Good luck to everyone applying this year.

As the original poster what...2 years ago?! (how the hell did this thread get dug up)...implied, UChicago has been and still is by far the best pathology training program in IL. The faculty is top notch.