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Best programs no one heard of
Started by ozzie20
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Oklahoma. sweet intern year, great moonlighting, great PD/faculty, excellent COL and QOL.
virgina mason. It doesnt get the press on here. Maybe if it was in cali or boston...
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I thought they were well known and respected for their regional
-We have a nice schedule at our program--out b/w 3 and 5pm everyday or paid OT.
-We have the option to work late shifts for OT pay.
-With the exception of ICU months we do a total of 4 weekends of call during all 3 years of anesthesia.
-Great clinical exposure to a wide variety of diseases, tons of ASA 3s and 4s--really sick pts.
-Lots of autonomy.
-No problem getting our numbers.
-Tight group of residents in a medium sized program.
-We have the option to work late shifts for OT pay.
-With the exception of ICU months we do a total of 4 weekends of call during all 3 years of anesthesia.
-Great clinical exposure to a wide variety of diseases, tons of ASA 3s and 4s--really sick pts.
-Lots of autonomy.
-No problem getting our numbers.
-Tight group of residents in a medium sized program.
I guess i really didn't put VCU in the programs no one has heard of but I have to second that it is a great program... I loved VCU (put it second, if their pain fellowship wasn't run by PMR they might have been first for me). only downside for me seemed like the medicine heavy intern year.
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I also liked VCU when I interviewed there back in 2004, but they were just a little too small for me.
Baystate Medical Center. Too bad it's not in Chicago.
They are. But on this board its a program rarely mentioned.
I'll second Oklahoma...out of all the places I interviewed, I think this was the one that gave me the greatest (good) surprise in terms of what I experienced vs. what I expected.
It's really a program on the up and up...very much worth checking out to those of you thinking about where to apply/interview next interview season.
I really wished OKC were closer to my family (and more importantly, my wife's). Even though it's not, it was still high on my list. I think their didactics and teaching emphasis was second to none.
i'll second scott and white...awesome program. definately the most family friendly program without a doubt. have placed graduates at top fellowships, awesome moonlighting and schedule...
where is scott and white?
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Temple, TX. One of the Solucient Top 15 major teaching hospitals in 2006. Also one of the Top 30 top hospitals w/ cardiovascular residencies.
http://www.100tophospitals.com/
Major Teaching Hospitals
Hospital City, State ID No.
University Medical Center Tucson, AZ 030064
Yale-New Haven Hospital New Haven, CT 070022
University of Connecticut Health Center Farmington, CT 070036
University of Kentucky Hospital Lexington, KY 180067
Baystate Medical Center Springfield, MA 220077
Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center Boston, MA 220086
Brigham and Women's Hospital Boston, MA 220110
University of Michigan Hospitals & Health Centers Ann Arbor, MI 230046
St. John Hospital & Medical Center Detroit, MI 230165
Robert Wood Johnson University Hospital New Brunswick, NJ 310038
University Hospitals Case Medical Center Cleveland, OH 360137
Geisinger Medical Center Danville, PA 390006
Vanderbilt University Medical Center Nashville, TN 440039
Scott & White Memorial Hospital Temple, TX 450054
University of Wisconsin Hospital and Clinics Madison, WI 520098
Teaching Hospitals with Cardiovascular Residencies
Hospital City, State ID No.
University Medical Center Tucson, AZ 030064
Mayo Clinic Hospital Phoenix, AZ 030103
Bridgeport Hospital Bridgeport, CT 070010
Yale-New Haven Hospital New Haven, CT 070022
Cleveland Clinic Florida Weston, FL 100289
Rush University Medical Center Chicago, IL 140119
St. Vincent Indianapolis Hospital Indianapolis, IN 150084
Mercy Medical Center-North Iowa Mason City, IA 160064
University of Maryland Medical Center Baltimore, MD 210002
Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center Boston, MA 220086
Providence Hospital and Medical Center Southfield, MI 230019
Henry Ford Hospital Detroit, MI 230053
Borgess Medical Center Kalamazoo, MI 230117
William Beaumont Hospital-Royal Oak Royal Oak, MI 230130
St. John Hospital & Medical Center Detroit, MI 230165
Abbott Northwestern Hospital Minneapolis, MN 240057
Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center Lebanon, NH 300003
Hackensack University Medical Center Hackensack, NJ 310001
Cleveland Clinic Foundation Cleveland, OH 360180
Geisinger Medical Center Danville, PA 390006
The Western Pennsylvania Hospital Pittsburgh, PA 390090
UPMC Presbyterian Pittsburgh, PA 390164
Lankenau Hospital Wynnewood, PA 390195
Rhode Island Hospital Providence, RI 410007
The Miriam Hospital Providence, RI 410012
Scott and White Memorial Hospital Temple, TX 450054
Memorial Hermann-Texas Medical Center Houston, TX 450068
University of Virginia Medical Center Charlottesville, VA 490009
University of Wisconsin Hospital and Clinics Madison, WI 520098
Froedtert & the Medical College of Wisconsin Milwaukee, WI 520177
I'm glad to see New Mexico here. I thought it was flat out unbeatable. I came out of there with skills most programs grads need fellowships to obtain. Pain, cardiac, neuro, peds, regional, ICU.
I don't think any of the residents there right now want to be anywhere else. I'm a resident there, but that doesn't make it any less true.
Massive volume, sick patients, complex cases, every kind of transplant. Being in Detroit and not technically a university program has a lot to do with it not geting the respect it deserves.
Maine Medical Center, best kept secret in New England
Could you elaborate? I've searched online and have been unable to come up with any substantiated sources claiming bias.
From their website, these are listed as the criteria for selection for the national benchmarks for sucess. Their methods are further detailed on their website.
Scoring hospitals on a set of weighted performance measures centered on clinical excellence, operating efficiency and financial health, and responsiveness to the community:
Risk-adjusted mortality index
Risk-adjusted complications index
Risk-adjusted patient safety index
Core Measures Score
Severity-adjusted average length of stay
Expense per adjusted discharge, case mix- and wage-adjusted
Profitability (operating profit margin)
Cash to total debt ratio
Growth in patient volume
Thomson is generally going to consider their clients first on that list. Generally.
Here's a less-biased (but still doesn't tell the whole story) list:
http://health.usnews.com/sections/health/best-hospitals
The "benchmarks" that are used to grade hospitals usually include such soft things as "smoking cessation counseling" and commencement of what are felt to be "standard of care" therapies (e.g., ACE, beta blocker, and statin on heart patients). These are done by review of charts that demonstrate "paper compliance" with a list of national standards. They often are not rigorous reflections of actual patient outcomes.
-copro
Here's a less-biased (but still doesn't tell the whole story) list:
http://health.usnews.com/sections/health/best-hospitals
The "benchmarks" that are used to grade hospitals usually include such soft things as "smoking cessation counseling" and commencement of what are felt to be "standard of care" therapies (e.g., ACE, beta blocker, and statin on heart patients). These are done by review of charts that demonstrate "paper compliance" with a list of national standards. They often are not rigorous reflections of actual patient outcomes.
-copro
Thanks for posting that, copro.
I interviewed at Vandy and UTSW, both quality programs that made it onto the usnews top 100 (and both programs that I would be more than happy to be at), but I thought S&W outranked them both as far as the qualities that I was concerned about.
If I were only looking for the most exposure to the most things, and pure # of cases, as well as top-level research, then I would've probably ranked otherwise.
However, the qualities of S&W that impressed me were some of the atypical qualities found in a residency program. Collegiality, 100% board pass rate, high quality (emphasis on quality) case volume, awesome working relationships, being incredibly family-friendly, location within a fairly small community with short commute times (10 minute avg), 1:1 faculty to resident ratio, strong program funding, reputation within the region, in-house moonlighting, level 1 trauma center, etc.
As well, S&W's website states that 1/3 of their current residents are AOA. According to the NRMP, in 2007, only 7% of apx 1100 anesthesiology applicants were AOA. That says alot right there.
These were the things I most highly valued. I didn't want to wind up in a "prestigious" program in name alone with alot of research dollars (which I don't really care that much about), where the program director would consider me a failure if I didn't wind up doing academics, where the first words out at the interview day were about how many thousands of whatever procedure that are performed at that facility every year, where they spent more time bad-mouthing other programs, or where I was only a number in the crowd.
Some of the other programs in my rank list did have some of these qualities unfortunately, but the good generally outweighed the bad, otherwise I wouldn't have ranked them, and the presence of those was how I compiled my list.
The only bad thing I've ever heard anyone say about S&W is it's location in Temple, a relatively small community with not much to do for the single person. I've never, not once heard anyone mention a bad quality of the program itself (Actually not completely true, a 4th yr at my school doing OB loved the program except for the fact that they only have 4 residents which apparently is a drawback in that field.)
My #2 (Oklahoma) is also a very strong program with alot of the qualities I'm looking for, but the uniqueness of S&W would be a better fit for my family and I, and here's to crossing fingers.
I interviewed at Vandy and UTSW, both quality programs that made it onto the usnews top 100 (and both programs that I would be more than happy to be at), but I thought S&W outranked them both as far as the qualities that I was concerned about.
If I were only looking for the most exposure to the most things, and pure # of cases, as well as top-level research, then I would've probably ranked otherwise.
However, the qualities of S&W that impressed me were some of the atypical qualities found in a residency program. Collegiality, 100% board pass rate, high quality (emphasis on quality) case volume, awesome working relationships, being incredibly family-friendly, location within a fairly small community with short commute times (10 minute avg), 1:1 faculty to resident ratio, strong program funding, reputation within the region, in-house moonlighting, level 1 trauma center, etc.
As well, S&W's website states that 1/3 of their current residents are AOA. According to the NRMP, in 2007, only 7% of apx 1100 anesthesiology applicants were AOA. That says alot right there.
These were the things I most highly valued. I didn't want to wind up in a "prestigious" program in name alone with alot of research dollars (which I don't really care that much about), where the program director would consider me a failure if I didn't wind up doing academics, where the first words out at the interview day were about how many thousands of whatever procedure that are performed at that facility every year, where they spent more time bad-mouthing other programs, or where I was only a number in the crowd.
Some of the other programs in my rank list did have some of these qualities unfortunately, but the good generally outweighed the bad, otherwise I wouldn't have ranked them, and the presence of those was how I compiled my list.
The only bad thing I've ever heard anyone say about S&W is it's location in Temple, a relatively small community with not much to do for the single person. I've never, not once heard anyone mention a bad quality of the program itself (Actually not completely true, a 4th yr at my school doing OB loved the program except for the fact that they only have 4 residents which apparently is a drawback in that field.)
My #2 (Oklahoma) is also a very strong program with alot of the qualities I'm looking for, but the uniqueness of S&W would be a better fit for my family and I, and here's to crossing fingers.
I never meant to imply there was anything other than excellence going on at Scott & White.
I just (generally) take objection to any "Best 100 Hospitals" rankings. More often than not, they are superficial snapshots of what really goes on inside a particular hospital. Their usual yardstick is how well hospitals follow protocols and garner research dollars, not actually practice medicine.
-copro
I just (generally) take objection to any "Best 100 Hospitals" rankings. More often than not, they are superficial snapshots of what really goes on inside a particular hospital. Their usual yardstick is how well hospitals follow protocols and garner research dollars, not actually practice medicine.
-copro
No, I didn't read your post as if you did, and I always appreciate advice on how to read particular studies, lists, etc, as well as there methods and how the bias falls.
I did find it strange that on the top100hospitals list that there were virtually no west coast programs.
As if there's not enough stats floating around as it is, I would like to see some type of data sets on all the things that Iverson's says to look for. Everything from case loads and research to child-care and call-room cleanliness.
Iverson's recommends finding these things out from the residents and your interview, however, I would like to see something that allows people to rank all these things on a 1-10 type scale after their visits, there-by providing a large compiled average of these issues for people who are considering where to rank (as well as being info from previous medical students over possibly biased residents).
That way, people such as myself who value collegiality between residents and the OR nursing staff, even more highly than the # of NIH grants from a previous year, would have something to go by other than...
"Program X is great".
