Hello everyone, I'm an undergrad looking at schools with good Psy.D. programs. Any help on the topic would be wonderful. More specifically, I am looking at what the best program is, what the average costs are, and average financial aid given. Thank you and happy holidays!
Best Psy.D. Schools
- Thread starter umyeah51
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I suppose that depends on how you operationalize "best". Best as in most well-funded? Faculty size? Most publications out of the program? Best internship match rate?
I imagine you are looking for a collection of all of the aforementioned traits. So with respect to those qualities look for schools that have low acceptance rates, high internship match rates to APA sites, good funding, and are attached to a free standing institution. Rutgers, Baylor are two that come to mind of the top of my head.
I go to a PsyD program that has pretty high acceptance rates, is expensive with little funding, is attached to a free standing university but it was certain faculty that led me to decide on this program versus another one that might have had better "metrics" at first glance.
Thank you so much for your response. I'm looking for the best overall: most worth the price. I've been looking at Rutgers (my top choice, but is so competitive), Massachusetts School of Professional Psychology, University of Denver, Chestnut Hill College, GW University, Indiana U of PA, La Salle U, Loyola U, etc.
Do you recommend your university (if you don't mind saying which it is)? It seems I'm gathering that most cost about 100,000-120,000 in tuition for the entire degree, plus living expenses. Overall, I'm looking at the program that best prepares you for real world clinical practice.
Do you recommend your university (if you don't mind saying which it is)? It seems I'm gathering that most cost about 100,000-120,000 in tuition for the entire degree, plus living expenses. Overall, I'm looking at the program that best prepares you for real world clinical practice.
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I would throw Indiana State University in the ring (small cohort, great funding, excellent faculty mentorship, practitioner-scientist training model, good match rate, I go there). Also look at Virginia Consortium, Wright State, Xavier, and obviously Baylor. From the perspective of a 4th year I recommend prioritizing APA accredited internship match rate in your decision.
In terms of reputation in the field, psychologists usually quote Rutgers and Baylor as the best PsyD programs. They are also funded or at least partially funded.
In terms of cost, you need to factor in living expenses for 5 years. if you have no funding, this usually comes out to 150-200K for a non-funded PsyD program. Anyways, do a search on this forum and you will see countless threads on the drawbacks of free-standing PsyD programs. Bottom line, graduates from these free standing schools have a very tough time in the job market and cannot pay back loans of 150K on a psychologist salary, if they even land a job in the field.
One of the most important statistics to look at is the % of students who land APA-Accredited internships (not other types of internships since many are unpaid). Think about this like an employment statistic since you are out of the job market for most starting jobs and fellowships without one. Some of the schools you quoted above have abysmal APA-Accredited match rates (YIKES, MSPP has between a 4-13% APA internship rate) so make sure you do your research and do not end up at a school where 50%-95% of the students don't land accredited internships. There are many schools out there who have amazing marketing campaigns and may even get you in touch with the small percentage of graduates who are doing well. Don't get doped into paying 200K for a useless degree.
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I applied to solely PsyD programs last year so I am very familiar with your search..
Have you looked into the University of Indianapolis?
Have you looked into the University of Indianapolis?
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I appreciate the comments- I would agree that Rutgers and Baylor are known as the top programs... However, I would like to suggest that "best" programs should be selected based upon what it is you are hoping to learn at school... I am at GW and I have enjoyed it for the most part- I know the program is considering moving from a 4 to 5 year design, which I think will strengthen our competitiveness re APA match rate. I selected the program because I wanted a psychodynamic training experience- its something to seriously consider as I have found that we (GW) are "known" for this among internship sites, which may be a pro or con depending on the site!
Thank you everyone for all of your insight. I did not realize that MSPP had such bad APA internship rates, but I will definitely start considering that with every grad school I look at. Yes, I've considered University of Indianapolis, and it seems like a wonderful option. Rutgers is my top choice, but because it is such a competitive school, I am looking for good backups.
I will re-look into each school with the APA accredited internship rates, as it seems the consensus is that those are very important. I appreciate all your feedback and please continue sharing your experiences and knowledge with me!
I will re-look into each school with the APA accredited internship rates, as it seems the consensus is that those are very important. I appreciate all your feedback and please continue sharing your experiences and knowledge with me!
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The thing about grad school is that even the best program out there doesn't come close to preparing you for "real world clinical practice." Being a clinician is very much on the job training. A good grad program will give you the foundation to be a good clinician, but the program alone won't get you there. I think that many people want to do a PsyD instead of a master's level degree because they think their training will be far superior. I'm sure that is often true, but certainly not always.
I would encourage you to talk to lots of professionals to figure out if a PsyD is the best route for you. 100-200k is a pretty significant amount of debt, particularly in light of earning potential. In many ways, grad school is a means to an end. If there is a way to get to that end without as much pain and debt, that would be a good thing.
Best,
Dr. E
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I would also suggest Spalding University. It's a smaller program (no more than 30 typically in a cohort), with an excellent supportive faculty, match rate, research opportunities, & a really supportive student body. We also receive HRSA grants every year, which can be up to nearly half of your tuition. It's also a plus since it's not a for profit professional psychology school, as it's part of a small private university. Louisville is also excellent for living costs, but I guess I'm really biased! 🙂
Spalding does not present data on the number of students who complete APA-Accredited internships---this would be a red flag to me. This is a requirement for every program for full disclosure. They present the data in a very confusing way that ultimately leaves out the number of students who complete APA internships. What are they trying to hide? Also, keep in mind that "Paid" internship can mean a $3,000 stipend if the internship is not accredited.
Can anyone decipher this table for me and let me know the number of students who completed APA-Accredited Internships? At first glance it could mean that around 80% complete APA internships, but they don't specify the number that fall into APA specifically so this could mean a few different outcomes:
http://spalding.edu/academics/psychology/psy-d-student-admissions-outcomes-and-other-data-c-20/
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I don't feel like looking it up right now, but APPIC has this info on their site.
When applying to any program I think it's also important to consider what specializations the program has for you and if it's the right fit. You can go to a competitive school with funding, small cohorts, and a decent match rate, and be absolutely miserable. Just because a school has a good reputation does not necessarily mean it's going to be the best for you.
Think about your goals as a future clinician - what populations do you want to work with? Do you want to get involved in research? Etc. Etc. Then seriously consider the schools that may help you reach your goals in the best possible way.
For me personally, I am planning to train in an area of psych that is only offered by a few schools in the country right now. When it came for me to decide on a school, even when offered admission to funded PhD programs, my PsyD program is what offered me the best resources and opportunities to specialize in my desired area and get me where I want to go. It was a no-brainer. Many might say that due to debt and low match rates my decision is risky, but I'm positive that my happiness and motivation would have likely wavered had I gone anywhere else. Far beyond what type of funding a program can offer you or what reputation the school has, a good fit with your program will show in your work and will eventually speak volumes about your ability to be a successful clinician.
Think about your goals as a future clinician - what populations do you want to work with? Do you want to get involved in research? Etc. Etc. Then seriously consider the schools that may help you reach your goals in the best possible way.
For me personally, I am planning to train in an area of psych that is only offered by a few schools in the country right now. When it came for me to decide on a school, even when offered admission to funded PhD programs, my PsyD program is what offered me the best resources and opportunities to specialize in my desired area and get me where I want to go. It was a no-brainer. Many might say that due to debt and low match rates my decision is risky, but I'm positive that my happiness and motivation would have likely wavered had I gone anywhere else. Far beyond what type of funding a program can offer you or what reputation the school has, a good fit with your program will show in your work and will eventually speak volumes about your ability to be a successful clinician.
Hello, I am a Masters Level Clinician who is currently Applying to PHD and PSYD programs. First, as aforementioned, make SURE the program is APA accredited. Simply GOOGLE, APA accredited PSYD programs and a detailed list will show. Also be sure to distinguish, PSYD in Clinical or Counseling as some schools offer both. As for me, I have applied to a few schools both PSYD and PHD and here they are...
Chestnut Hill College (Psyd) (Practice and Teach Psychodynamic Theory) Make sure your personal essay addresses your abilities to learn and apply Psychodynamic Tech.)
PCOM (PSYD) (Philadelphia college of Osteopathic Med) ----> Cognitive Behavioral Theory taught
Rutgers (Clinical Psyd)----> Like you said, very competitive.
Lehigh University (Counseling Phd)
Marywood (Scranton PA)---> Clinical Psyd.
Farleigh Dickinson University (PHD Clinical Psyc)
Yeshiva (Clinical Psyd)
*HELPFUL POINTER*----> I did not do this however, a friend of mine has. Apply to Clinical PSYD programs in School Psychology. Now, I know what youre saying, I dont want to work in a school. However, once the degree is attained you are still a CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST -----> with a specialization in school psyc. PSYD school psyc. Programs are much less competitive then regular PSYD programs. Also keep in mind that many of your clinical trainings will be in childrens hospitals, outpatient units, inpatient units, and schools. So you will still get a diverse clinical experience. Thus when ready to get a job, you can market yourself as a Clinical Psychologist.
-hope this was helpful
G
Chestnut Hill College (Psyd) (Practice and Teach Psychodynamic Theory) Make sure your personal essay addresses your abilities to learn and apply Psychodynamic Tech.)
PCOM (PSYD) (Philadelphia college of Osteopathic Med) ----> Cognitive Behavioral Theory taught
Rutgers (Clinical Psyd)----> Like you said, very competitive.
Lehigh University (Counseling Phd)
Marywood (Scranton PA)---> Clinical Psyd.
Farleigh Dickinson University (PHD Clinical Psyc)
Yeshiva (Clinical Psyd)
*HELPFUL POINTER*----> I did not do this however, a friend of mine has. Apply to Clinical PSYD programs in School Psychology. Now, I know what youre saying, I dont want to work in a school. However, once the degree is attained you are still a CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST -----> with a specialization in school psyc. PSYD school psyc. Programs are much less competitive then regular PSYD programs. Also keep in mind that many of your clinical trainings will be in childrens hospitals, outpatient units, inpatient units, and schools. So you will still get a diverse clinical experience. Thus when ready to get a job, you can market yourself as a Clinical Psychologist.
-hope this was helpful
G
This is not accurate. APA accreditation is important but its a very low bar. Terrible programs are APA accredited. You want to check on the % of students that matched to APA accredited internships (other types of accreditation like CAPIC, APPIC are going to shut out most early employment options). This is probably the most important statistic (This about it like an employment statistic so you want to look at programs that have 80%+ rates).
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This actually generally isn't accurate, either. School psychology programs offer a degree in just that--school psychology, not clinical psychology with a school specialization. You generally are still licensed as a "psychologist" at the state level (most states don't differentiate), although this depends on individual state legislative stipulations. Additionally, there's no guarantee that individuals in a school psych program receive substantial training in non-school settings.
In general, I believe to be eligible to deliver services outside of schools, an individual has to complete a standard clinical/counseling psych internship (via APPIC). School psych students can certainly be eligible to do so, but to be competitive, they often have to individually seek out opportunities in grad school outside of their typical degree program.
But no, if your degree is in school psychology, you can not market yourself as a clinical psychologist (just as my clinical degree doesn't allow me to market myself as a school psychologist). If you're licensed at the state level, though, you can certainly market yourself as a psychologist.
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To be honest, I think you should be most concerned about the following criteria if you are really considering applying to doctoral programs:
1. Cost (i.e., tuition, books, living expenses, car insurance, phone, internet, etc.),
2. Time to Completion
3. Class Size
4. Match Rates to APA Accredited Internships.
If you are going to be in enormous classes, pay a large amount of money, spend more than 5 years, and not get an APA internship you will be in serious, serious trouble. You're job prospects will be limited, your earning potential will be lower, you will accrue an incredible amount of debt, and it will take you longer than you think to get licensed and begin practicing. Training and supervision do not end immediately after you graduate. All of these particular factors are really important to consider and all inter-related.
To be honest, I would strongly recommend that you read about the internship imbalance in clinical psychology before applying. It is an enormous problem. I was very fortunate to land an APA Accredited Internship this year. Knowing what I know now and seeing the imbalance grow at such an exponential rate, I would strongly consider looking into other degrees that would allow you to practice psychotherapy if that is all you are interested in doing. I would still apply to doctoral programs, but I would be very selective.
In
1. Cost (i.e., tuition, books, living expenses, car insurance, phone, internet, etc.),
2. Time to Completion
3. Class Size
4. Match Rates to APA Accredited Internships.
If you are going to be in enormous classes, pay a large amount of money, spend more than 5 years, and not get an APA internship you will be in serious, serious trouble. You're job prospects will be limited, your earning potential will be lower, you will accrue an incredible amount of debt, and it will take you longer than you think to get licensed and begin practicing. Training and supervision do not end immediately after you graduate. All of these particular factors are really important to consider and all inter-related.
To be honest, I would strongly recommend that you read about the internship imbalance in clinical psychology before applying. It is an enormous problem. I was very fortunate to land an APA Accredited Internship this year. Knowing what I know now and seeing the imbalance grow at such an exponential rate, I would strongly consider looking into other degrees that would allow you to practice psychotherapy if that is all you are interested in doing. I would still apply to doctoral programs, but I would be very selective.
In
Hello everyone, by any chance does anyone know a cite where I can find the information on all Psy D program's stats, like APA accredited internship rates. Some of the university's do not have the information online as they are supposed to, and I'm having trouble finding them. Thank you!
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Unfortunately, if the university itself isn't reporting the information, I don't know of anywhere that would have it readily available and compiled. APPIC lists the % of matched/unmatched applicants overall per program from 2000-2010, but doesn't further break down into APA vs. non-APA.
You could attempt contacting the APA to inform them that the school isn't making that information readily available, and/or could email/call the school directly to inquire. Personally, I'd take it is a potentially significant red flag if the program isn't posting these rates. After all, if the rates were decent, you'd think it would be something they'd want to advertise and readily make known.
http://www.appic.org/Match/Match-Statistics
Click on match rates by doctoral program. Keep in mind that this includes match rates for APA and APPIC Internships (limits you in terms of job opportunities/fellowships), not APA alone. To get APA rates you will need to go to each site and look around for it (they are required to post this). Sometimes it is under "Student Admissions Outcomes and Other Data."
