Best Schools for Specializing

[tl413]

What are the best schools for being accepted into a specialty program/residency? Specifically oral and maxillofacial surgery.

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[dent2009]

My guess is the schools that are ranked at the very top? Harvard, Columbia, etc.

 

[crazy_sherm]

My guess is the schools that are ranked at the very top? Harvard, Columbia, etc.

And where exactly do you find these rankings?

Check the different schools' specialization rates. The Ivy league schools and places like UCLA tout themselves as specialization factories due to the culture there. They tend to attract more people who are focused on specializing. It doesn't necessarily mean that they have a better curriculum or clinical experience. People still manage to specialize from a lot of "no-name" schools. As long as you want it, there's always a way. You'll have to work extremely hard no matter where you go, because in the end, you're being compared with all other candidates applying to a particular program.

 

[armorshell]

My guess is the schools that are ranked at the very top? Harvard, Columbia, etc.

A current OS resident that did dental school at Harvard told me that very few Harvard graduates actually go into OS, around 2/year. He said most people from Harvard specialize, but a big percentage of those are in pedo and perio.

I'd just suggest going somewhere cheap, doing some solid externships and getting ridiculous boards scores (Though with the new absence of boards, maybe that means getting a really high rank or doing good on some other exam, who knows)

 

[dentstd]

Medical schools LOOOOVVE name. Only a few don't really care. Sit down with a copy of the US News and find a dental school that's affiliated with a top medical school.

 

[Contach]

Medical schools LOOOOVVE name. Only a few don't really care. Sit down with a copy of the US News and find a dental school that's affiliated with a top medical school.

Sorry I'm lost. Why do we care what medical schools think?

 

[tl413]

Sorry I'm lost. Why do we care what medical schools think?

I am confused about this as well.

Are there any schools that it is near impossible to place into a specialty from?

 

[Hysteria24]

Sorry I'm lost. Why do we care what medical schools think?

I believe many oral surgery programs are affiliated with med schools (and many will grant an MD at the end of the program). So if you were looking at specializing in oral surgery, then the above posts about medical schools would apply.

 

[Hysteria24]

Are there any schools that it is near impossible to place into a specialty from?

This is difficult to say, and there have many, many threads just about this topic.

Some schools have higher specialization rates than others. This can either be attributed to school X providing more resources to specialize, or may be simply attributed to more students wanting to specialize when initially entering school X opposed to school Y and trying harder to make that happen from day one.

Regardless, the old adage was: Rank high in your class, rock part 1 boards, and you can specialize after graduating from any school. (note: the boards going pass/fail in 2010 throws a wrench in this tried and true method).

 

[atlanta478]

And where exactly do you find these rankings?

Check the different schools' specialization rates. The Ivy league schools and places like UCLA tout themselves as specialization factories due to the culture there. They tend to attract more people who are focused on specializing. It doesn't necessarily mean that they have a better curriculum or clinical experience. People still manage to specialize from a lot of "no-name" schools. As long as you want it, there's always a way. You'll have to work extremely hard no matter where you go, because in the end, you're being compared with all other candidates applying to a particular program.

It doesn’t, but …. with the boards going pass/fail shortly, the program directors won’t count out the name recognition (Columbia, Harvard, UPenn) assuming that all other statistics are equal. I even will argue that for OMS, coming from let say, UCLA is giving you better chance to get in than UOP. For Endo my "theory" may not stand.

 

[armorshell]

It doesn’t, but …. with the boards going pass/fail shortly, the program directors won’t count out the name recognition (Columbia, Harvard, UPenn) assuming that all other statistics are equal. I even will argue that for OMS, coming from let say, UCLA is giving you better chance to get in than UOP. For Endo my "theory" may not stand.

I don't have much experience dealing with OS programs or program directors, but I can honestly say that what experience I have, they're much more worried about competence and personality than they are about school reputation, whether it be the "ranking" or the education. They want someone that's going to work their a** off, read like crazy and know their stuff; whether it comes from an Ivy or not they could worry less about.

That being said, there may be a few programs that actually care about pedigree, but from my personal experience and what I've heard from residents first hand, they're the minority and not particularly desirable programs anyway.

On a more personal note, being a Pacific student myself, if a program prefers a UCLA student to me simply because of the name of the school (All else being equal), that's not the atmosphere or attitude I want in a program, and I'll consider myself glad they ranked me lower.

 

[blankguy]

Sorry I'm lost. Why do we care what medical schools think?

For a joint Certificate and MD program you have to match to the residency AND get accepted by the medical school for the MD portion.

 

[DrReo]

I don't have much experience dealing with OS programs or program directors, but I can honestly say that what experience I have, they're much more worried about competence and personality than they are about school reputation, whether it be the "ranking" or the education. They want someone that's going to work their a** off, read like crazy and know their stuff; whether it comes from an Ivy or not they could worry less about.

That being said, there may be a few programs that actually care about pedigree, but from my personal experience and what I've heard from residents first hand, they're the minority and not particularly desirable programs anyway.

On a more personal note, being a Pacific student myself, if a program prefers a UCLA student to me simply because of the name of the school (All else being equal), that's not the atmosphere or attitude I want in a program, and I'll consider myself glad they ranked me lower.

I like your attitude.

 

[achilles2]

I am interested in this topic as well, what would make you more competitive esp in regard to oral and maxillofacial.

Would taking the MCATs even tho you are going to dental school assist with being accepted into the MD required program?

 

[doc toothache]

Graduating at the bottom of a very prestigious ds is not likely to help the cause.

 

[dentstd]

Graduating at the bottom of a very prestigious ds is not likely to help the cause.

Unless, of course, when there is no bottom of the class, which is the case with most of these "very prestigious ds."

 

[doc toothache]

Unless, of course, when there is no bottom of the class, which is the case with most of these "very prestigious ds."

There is always a bottom of the class, it is only a question of how wide or narrow the range even with ds with 35 students.

 

[dentstd]

There is always a bottom of the class, it is only a question of how wide or narrow the range even with ds with 35 students.

It's hard to be at the bottom of the class when your transcript doesn't have your grades or class rank on it.

 

[mamelons]

For a joint Certificate and MD program you have to match to the residency AND get accepted by the medical school for the MD portion.

I was under the impression that students apply to the OMS program, not the medical school. If the OMS program accepts you, then you are automatically accepted into the medical school program. You don't have to take the MCAT or anything. Besides, if you are a doctor (DDS/DMD) and can get accepted to a OMS program, then surely you could be accepted to a medical school program if that is the way it is done. Someone correct me if I am wrong...

 

[cookand]

I was under the impression that even though the new boards will be pass/fail one also gets a numerical score to be used when looking to specialize.

 

[somethinpositiv]

I've heard that Pacific is one of the worst schools for specializing, and that one should go there to become a general dentist. They do not have specialty programs there, with the exception of Ortho. I'm sure if you're a top student at UoP like armorshell you can manage to get into a good OMFS specialty residency, though I've always heard that many programs prefer candidates from big name schools. Let's assume that two applicants have the same level of education, same skill level, same scores, and one is from Harvard/Penn/Columbia/UCLA/UCSF/ect and one is not, that they would choose the one from the big name school, all else being equal.

 

[sloken]

Is there a single website that displays all DS's specialization rates and/or avg board exam scores, or would I have to dig around each school's own website to figure this out?

 

[dentstd]

Is there a single website that displays all DS's specialization rates and/or avg board exam scores, or would I have to dig around each school's own website to figure this out?

Not for dental school. There's only scattered data, and the average for most schools waver around an 85. Even for top schools.

 

[armorshell]

I've heard that Pacific is one of the worst schools for specializing, and that one should go there to become a general dentist. They do not have specialty programs there, with the exception of Ortho. I'm sure if you're a top student at UoP like armorshell you can manage to get into a good OMFS specialty residency, though I've always heard that many programs prefer candidates from big name schools. Let's assume that two applicants have the same level of education, same skill level, same scores, and one is from Harvard/Penn/Columbia/UCLA/UCSF/ect and one is not, that they would choose the one from the big name school, all else being equal.

Absolutely false. For the last year they published data, Pacific had a better specialization rate than UCSF and a significantly higher % of people accepted into OMFS and ortho residencies. Our specialization rate is usually unremarkable if not slightly above average (12-15% not including GPR/AEGD)

 

[Bruinlove]

Absolutely false. For the last year they published data, Pacific had a better specialization rate than UCSF and a significantly higher % of people accepted into OMFS and ortho residencies. Our specialization rate is usually unremarkable if not slightly above average (12-15% not including GPR/AEGD)

Does this mean that UCSF has specialty rate less than 12~15%?

 

[armorshell]

Does this mean that UCSF has specialty rate less than 12~15%?

For the last year they published data (2006) 13 people out of ~100 including IDS reported that they were entering specialty programs. Whether that's the norm I have no idea, and I personally believe these types of stats are absolutely meaningless. What you do and how you perform at a school far outweighs what everyone else does.

Even if some schools consider "name" in specialty admissions, I doubt it's the first thing they look at, and I imagine it's completely dwarfed by other, far more important factors. But hey, there are some people out there who would probably buy volcano insurance if I offered it to them.

 

[Bruinlove]

For the last year they published data (2006) 13 people out of ~100 including IDS reported that they were entering specialty programs. Whether that's the norm I have no idea, and I personally believe these types of stats are absolutely meaningless. What you do and how you perform at a school far outweighs what everyone else does.

Even if some schools consider "name" in specialty admissions, I doubt it's the first thing they look at, and I imagine it's completely dwarfed by other, far more important factors. But hey, there are some people out there who would probably buy volcano insurance if I offered it to them.

I know what you mean and probably won't use these stats to decide where I'm going. But, I'm very surprised that UCSF, known as one of the best DS in the nation, has specialty rate lower than 12~15% while other top schools like UCLA and Penn have much higher rates.

 

[armorshell]

I know what you mean and probably won't use these stats to decide where I'm going. But, I'm very surprised that UCSF, known as one of the best DS in the nation, has specialty rate lower than 12~15% while other top schools like UCLA and Penn have much higher rates.

Since when does best equate with high specialization rate? Do you know those other schools have high specialty rates, or are you just going off of what people have told you?

I learned from a recent Harvard grad that the majority of people specializing in his class went into perio or pedo, not the glorious ortho/OMFS that most pre-dents dream about. The last few years Columbia published specialty stats, only 20-25% of their classes were going into specialties (not residencies), not the 60-70% most people throw around.

Do your own research, don't just take what people tell you for granted. So called "specialty schools" and "clinical schools" are a meme in my opinion. Some schools have various strengths and weaknesses, but it's not so black and white as some people like to imagine.

 

[Bruinlove]

Since when does best equate with high specialization rate? Do you know those other schools have high specialty rates, or are you just going off of what people have told you?

I learned from a recent Harvard grad that the majority of people specializing in his class went into perio or pedo, not the glorious ortho/OMFS that most pre-dents dream about. The last few years Columbia published specialty stats, only 20-25% of their classes were going into specialties (not residencies), not the 60-70% most people throw around.

Do your own research, don't just take what people tell you for granted. So called "specialty schools" and "clinical schools" are a meme in my opinion. Some schools have various strengths and weaknesses, but it's not so black and white as some people like to imagine.

I talked to several UCLA dental students (because I go to UCLA undergrad) and they said 19 out of 23 people got into ortho 2 years ago, 10 out of 13 people got into ortho a year ago. 19/88 = 22% just for ORTHO. And they said that pretty much everyone from UCLA except a few bottom feeders can specialize if they want. And one of them said he knows it's similar at Penn.

 

[armorshell]

I talked to several UCLA dental students (because I go to UCLA undergrad) and they said 19 out of 23 people got into ortho 2 years ago, 10 out of 13 people got into ortho a year ago. 19/88 = 22% just for ORTHO. And they said that pretty much everyone from UCLA except a few bottom feeders can specialize if they want. And one of them said he knows it's similar at Penn.

And there are people at Pacific who will tell you 40% of our class specializes, but that doesn't make it true. I'd be even more wary about secondhand subjective advice. Look for published statistics if statistics are what you're looking into. Any school should be willing to give you exact statistics if that's what you're looking for.

AS far as everyone specializing who wants to, you could probably say that about every school. I've heard of very few people (except for, as you called them, bottom feeders) who haven't been able to specialize coming from my school. Intention is important IMO. What's a better statistic, 8/8 or 19/23? Maybe the year UCSF had a low specialty rate, very few people applied to specialties, and most of the class was interested in general dentistry. A single statistic tells you incredibly little.

 

[UCSF2012]

Since when does best equate with high specialization rate? Do you know those other schools have high specialty rates, or are you just going off of what people have told you?

I learned from a recent Harvard grad that the majority of people specializing in his class went into perio or pedo, not the glorious ortho/OMFS that most pre-dents dream about. The last few years Columbia published specialty stats, only 20-25% of their classes were going into specialties (not residencies), not the 60-70% most people throw around.

Do your own research, don't just take what people tell you for granted. So called "specialty schools" and "clinical schools" are a meme in my opinion. Some schools have various strengths and weaknesses, but it's not so black and white as some people like to imagine.

Dude. Reading Comprehension! Stop propagating misinformation based on your reading errors.

And the class of 2006 is vastly different from the class of 2011, the latest class we have stats for. Student body quality has skyrocketed for certain schools. UCSF being one of them. Look at the past ADA guides and UCSF and UoP pulled similar student quality in the past. Look at the latest one and we overtook UoP by 1 academic average point.

 

[UCSF2012]

The specialty match rate for ortho/omfs's similar for most schools because of something else. Orthodontics is boring as hell, and who wants to spend 6 years doing residency just to make as much after 2yrs as endo and pedo. Pedodontics is largely general practice for kids, but they shell a crapload more money. Endo's no where as competitive as ortho/omfs. Everybody wants ortho coming into dental school, but fewer want it upon leaving. Ortho's boring as f'!

 

[armorshell]

Dude. Reading Comprehension! Stop propagating misinformation based on your reading errors.

And the class of 2006 is vastly different from the class of 2011, the latest class we have stats for. Student body quality has skyrocketed for certain schools. UCSF being one of them. Look at the past ADA guides and UCSF and UoP pulled similar student quality in the past. Look at the latest one and we overtook UoP by 1 academic average point.

Dude. Reading Comprehension! There's nothing wrong with any of the conclusions I've drawn about past classes, I'm not propagating any misinformation (feel free to point it out if I am though, good luck), and I'm not sure it's possible for you to project the specialization rates of the class of 2011 vs. our class of 2010 who won't graduate for some time.

Even then, if entering statistics are what makes the difference you're basically agreeing with me that school doesn't matter, it's the students. This isn't a pissing match between schools, it's about what you need to succeed.

 

[armorshell]

The specialty match rate for ortho/omfs's similar for most schools because of something else. Orthodontics is boring as hell, and who wants to spend 6 years doing residency just to make as much after 2yrs as endo and pedo. Pedodontics is largely general practice for kids, but they shell a crapload more money. Endo's no where as competitive as ortho/omfs. Everybody wants ortho coming into dental school, but fewer want it upon leaving. Ortho's boring as f'!

This post really shows how much you don't know. We'll see what you think once you start dental school next month.

Endo is probably as competitive as OMFS, so much to the point where they require a GPR or private practice experience before accepting a student. I find it hard to believe that you reduce everything down to money as well. OMFS is a highly varied and enjoyable field, and ortho is actually fairly enjoyable as well, and by far the most competitive specialty in dentistry. Your assessment of how many people who want it is wayyyyy off.

 

[UCSF2012]

This post really shows how much you don't know. We'll see what you think once you start dental school next month.

Endo is probably as competitive as OMFS, so much to the point where they require a GPR or private practice experience before accepting a student. I find it hard to believe that you reduce everything down to money as well. OMFS is a highly varied and enjoyable field, and ortho is actually fairly enjoyable as well, and by far the most competitive specialty in dentistry. Your assessment of how many people who want it is wayyyyy off.

Dude, again...reading comprehension! Where did I precisely assess how many people want it? And you took issue with half of a sentence, where I said endo isn't anywhere near as competitive as omfs, and all of the sudden I don't know what tha hell I'm talking about. And don't even get me started on this reducing things down to money, with all this UoP talk about capitalization. Every time a why UoP issue comes up, you and Jeff immediately start a capitalization talk.

And plz, I don't need to have started dental school to know how to read a lay article with minimal statistics. You misstated the information in that article in so many ways. If you want corrections to your reading comprehension, 77 or so students responded to that survey, not 101 as you said. Your computation of 13% was calculated using 101, while about 20% of those 101 students don't quite qualify for many specialties. Our class size is only 80, and we don't know how many of that 80 responded. There were so many mixed computations in your calculation it's crazy. There appears to be anywhere from 20 to 30% error in placement rate, depending on what numbers are supposed to be used, numbers that were not given in that article.

 

[armorshell]

If you want corrections to your reading comprehension, 77 or so students responded to that survey, not 101 as you said. Your computation of 13% was calculated using 101, while about 20% of those 101 students don't quite qualify for many specialties. Our class size is only 80. There were so many mixed computations in your calculation it's crazy. There appears to be anywhere from 20 to 30% error in placement rate, depending on what numbers are supposed to be used, numbers that were not given in that article.

Your assumption that IDS students are exempted from many specialties is absolutely incorrect, and your assumption that the non-responders to the essay are the same students who worked their butt off to specialize is naive at best. Even exempting the non-responders, you still come out with an average sampled specialty rate (16.883116883116883116883116883117% exactly), far below the 60%s and 70%s thrown around the forums.

Dude, again...reading comprehension! Where did I precisely assess how many people want it?

Everybody wants ortho coming into dental school, but fewer want it upon leaving. Ortho's boring as f'!

Make fun of me for reading comprehension, but at least I know what I've written

 

[armorshell]

Also, why not evaluate my previous statement. Why does it matter that the class of 2011 has such higher entering statistics for specializing reasons? If the school matters so much in that regard, shouldn't it not make a difference whether one class is smarter than another? It's still the same UCSF right?

 

[UCSF2012]

Even then, if entering statistics are what makes the difference you're basically agreeing with me that school doesn't matter, it's the students. This isn't a pissing match between schools, it's about what you need to succeed.

A school's reputation is built on history. A history of having top students is one thing. Student quality is what matters most, except for Penn. They have average students but are somehow able to push more students into top programs.

But no, school name matters. To what extent nobody knows precisely. There's a reason why a 235 (~95th percentile) from Harvard med'll get any residency he wants, while a 261 (~99.9th percentile) from St. George's in the Carribbean may get it if he really tries. But if you want a dental example, Columbia appears to be a name *****.

Dentistry isn't and can't be as big into name schools for a fundamental reason. There's a shortage of students from big name schools. Only Duke and Penn put out significant numbers of predents. The rest'll be lucky to have 2-3/yr. So yes, in a sense, school name doesn't matter.

 

[UCSF2012]

Make fun of me for reading comprehension, but at least I know what I've written

I know what I wrote. I asked you where did I PRECISELY give an assessment of how many people want it, as a follow up on your calling my assessment WAAAAYYY off. An assessment can't be way off if what I stated was essentially fewer people want ortho upon graduation than upon entrance to dental school. Reading comprehension matters. Reading fine details on statistics matter. Knowing what the published numbers on stats really say matter.

 

[UCSF2012]

your assumption that the non-responders to the essay are the same students who worked their butt off to specialize is naive at best.

I thought that too, until I stopped to think about a few rules in statistics. That survey got enough responders to be considered statistically representative. I may or may not want that number to be representative, but it's supposed to be.

 

[UCSF2012]

Your assumption that IDS students are exempted from many specialties is absolutely incorrect, and your assumption that the non-responders to the essay are the same students who worked their butt off to specialize is naive at best. Even exempting the non-responders, you still come out with an average sampled specialty rate (16.883116883116883116883116883117% exactly), far below the 60%s and 70%s thrown around the forums.

I said they "don't quite qualify for many" programs, not that they're barred absolutely. I chose those words, because I looked through a good many post-grad programs sites and found many that said they don't accept from outside the US.

For obvious reasons, I'm not too keen on people misrepresenting my school, putting it in a negative light. For the same reason you appear everytime someone pees on UoP.

 

[UCSF2012]

Also, why not evaluate my previous statement. Why does it matter that the class of 2011 has such higher entering statistics for specializing reasons? If the school matters so much in that regard, shouldn't it not make a difference whether one class is smarter than another? It's still the same UCSF right?

I do believe you're the first to sidetrack to this topic. Should I really defend myself on an argument you made??

 

[UCSF2012]

I know what you mean and probably won't use these stats to decide where I'm going. But, I'm very surprised that UCSF, known as one of the best DS in the nation, has specialty rate lower than 12~15% while other top schools like UCLA and Penn have much higher rates.

There are no numbers to go off of. Tufts is the only completely honest school. They publish everything, much more than anyone really needs to know. Every other school starts to misrepresent numbers, and directors of admissions are the worst at it, because they use tricky wording to lead you to think their numbers are higher. On one end of the spectrum, Columbia and UCLA appear to fudge numbers like crazy to get their 50% rate, while Temple told me they're at 35% or so.

 

[armorshell]

I know what I wrote. I asked you where did I PRECISELY give an assessment of how many people want it, as a follow up on your calling my assessment WAAAAYYY off. An assessment can't be way off if what I stated was essentially fewer people want ortho upon graduation than upon entrance to dental school. Reading comprehension matters. Reading fine details on statistics matter. Knowing what the published numbers on stats really say matter.

Oh I see, you're arguing about semantics.

 

[UCSF2012]

To get a more representative measure of placement percentages, you really should leave out the international students. This should apply to all schools, regardless of how many programs accept international applicants. Here's why.... Lots of programs will take international applicants but in a different sense. They'll take it in the sense of, "sure you can apply. Just send the application fees. [but we'll take you seriously only if you're creme de la creme]." This shouldn't be surprising considering all the things we see in the DDS application....if you have a 19AA and apply to UCLA, you'd better be a cali resident. Or sure, San Antonio and UAB absolutely accepts out-of-state students [**cough, cough, but those who get in usually have a 22AA/4.0**]. So sure international applicants can apply, but there's an artificial system preventing many from getting in.

 

[UCSF2012]

Oh I see, you're arguing about semantics.

Yes, fine details usually matter. Kinda like 77 respondants and not 101 if you read the * at the end.

I don't know if you've noticed but when you make an argument, there'll usually be numerous interpretations, most of which weren't even what the author said. Kinda like how your SAT teacher said to not use personal background when reading the reading passages, because you may impose your own claim and not the author's...but students go ahead and do it anyway. I try to avoid making any sort of academic claim, because once I do, I have to filter thru the responses...what did this person understand correctly, and what did he superimpose based on his own background. It always gets into a big mess.

Everybody on here does it. I knew you'd do it, so I was completely anticipating some of the responses you gave. A part of me was just f'n around with you. Btw, the weather's awesome outside. You should enjoy it. Oh that's right...you got lab later tonight.

 

[Istr8nthem]

I know what I wrote. I asked you where did I PRECISELY give an assessment of how many people want it, as a follow up on your calling my assessment WAAAAYYY off. An assessment can't be way off if what I stated was essentially fewer people want ortho upon graduation than upon entrance to dental school. Reading comprehension matters. Reading fine details on statistics matter. Knowing what the published numbers on stats really say matter.

I would agree with most of this post, however, I do not think it is because people think ortho is boring that drives down the number of people wanting to specialize in ortho pre-dental school to post-dental school. I think it is more the realization that they are not competitive enough to get into an ortho program... The statement that "ortho is boring as F.....", while you have a right to your own opinion, is a completely naive and ignorant statement to make (someone with your experience may be better suited to simply say, "I don't think I would enjoy ortho"). Part of what makes orthodontics interesting and fun involves knowing about occlusion, growth, mechanics of tooth movement, and then coming up with treatment plans unique to an individual.... these concepts are barely even touched upon in dental school with 99.9% learned in ortho residency and in practice. You do not have any of said experiences, and I hope you are not basing your view of orthodontics simply on a couple hours of observing that you have completed in order to get into dental school. I will chalk up your ignorance as someone attempting to be different heading into dental school.

 

[UCSF2012]

I would agree with most of this post, however, I do not think it is because people think ortho is boring that drives down the number of people wanting to specialize in ortho pre-dental school to post-dental school. I think it is more the realization that they are not competitive enough to get into an ortho program... The statement that "ortho is boring as F.....", while you have a right to your own opinion, is a completely naive and ignorant statement to make (someone with your experience may be better suited to simply say, "I don't think I would enjoy ortho"). Part of what makes orthodontics interesting and fun involves knowing about occlusion, growth, mechanics of tooth movement, and then coming up with treatment plans unique to an individual.... these concepts are barely even touched upon in dental school with 99.9% learned in ortho residency and in practice. You do not have any of said experiences, and I hope you are not basing your view of orthodontics simply on a couple hours of observing that you have completed in order to get into dental school. I will chalk up your ignorance as someone attempting to be different heading into dental school.

I think ortho's boring as f. Excuse me if it's not proper.

...and do you even know what the word "ignorant" means? no one seems to use it in the right context.

 

[Istr8nthem]

I think ortho's boring as f. Excuse me if it's not proper.

...and do you even know what the word "ignorant" means? no one seems to use it in the right context.

Actually, if you look "ignorant" up in a dictionary, the definitions are as follows:
1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.
2. lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: ignorant of quantum physics.
3. uninformed; unaware.
4. due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.

Seems to me you fit the definition rather perfectly!

Hey, I'm not trying to call you out, I'm simply trying to make you realize that you shouldn't knock something before you completely understand what it is all about. I'm also trying to point out that your obvious lack of professionalism and immaturity suggests that you are probably disgruntled thinking about all your fellow classmates that are chomping at the bit to get into an ortho residency while you are trying to be different, and in turn decide to bad mouth it. I would never say that perio, prosth, etc is "boring as F...." even though I do not enjoy them, I can see how others may be fascinated by those fields. Grow up and stop turning the conversations into grammatical study sessions because all you do is make yourself look foolish.

 

[armorshell]

Here's why.... Lots of programs will take international applicants but in a different sense. They'll take it in the sense of, "sure you can apply. Just send the application fees. [but we'll take you seriously only if you're creme de la creme]." \

Isn't that how Ortho/OMFS/endo/pedo treat pretty much all applicants?