Best top 5 Neurology residencies?

[Terpskins99]

42. George Washington
51. Georgetown
57. Maryland

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[blueprints88]

1st group
UCSF
UPenn
Hopkins
Partners

2nd group
Columbia
Stanford
Mayo-Rochester
WashU

3rd group
Cornell
BIDMC
UMiami
Emory

4th group
Yale
UMich
UWash
UVa

5th group
OHSU
UCLA
Duke
Georgetown

6th group
UPitt
Vanderbilt
Baylor
Mt. Sinai

7th group
UAB
Cleveland Clinic
Northwestern
Rush

8th group
UCSD
UNC
UT Southwestern
UCDavis

9th group
Thomas Jefferson
UChicago
URochester
USC

10th group
Case
George Washington
UFlorida
UColorado

sorry to be harsh, but there is one word to describe your list: worthless

 

[Nerdologist]

My apologies if this list upsets or frustrates any of you. I guess I should have clarified the posting. I made the list based on my personal interview experience, conversations I've had with other applicants, residents and career advisers and my own research online. Obviously, this is just one person's opinion so interpret the post accordingly.

The purpose of the list is intended for future applicants to get a quick sketch of how programs are perceived across the country by applicants, residents and mentors. I personally found these lists/people's opinions helpful in at least selecting residency programs to research online and where to apply.

I am certain there are programs that are left off of the list that are excellent and may in fact be better than some listed above. I do strongly believe that any of the programs listed above can provide a quality education in general neurology, appropriate mentorship to aid in the fellowship process and are for the most part well-respected in the community of Neurology, i.e. this list is inclusive and no way exclusive.

Perhaps I should not have broken the programs into groups but just posted my listing as 40 reputable/well-respected programs in the United States.

40 Reputable Neurology Residency Programs in the United States
UCSF, UPenn, Hopkins, Partners, Columbia, Stanford, Mayo-Rochester, WashU, Cornell, BIDMC, UMiami, Emory, Yale, UMich, UWash, UVa, OHSU, UCLA, Duke, Georgetown, UPitt, Vanderbilt, Baylor, Mt. Sinai, UAB, Cleveland Clinic, Northwestern, Rush, UCSD, UNC, UT Southwestern, UCDavis, Thomas Jefferson, UChicago, URochester, USC, Case, George Washington, UFlorida, UColorado

 

[PhakeDoc]

40 Reputable Neurology Residency Programs in the United States
UCSF, UPenn, Hopkins, Partners, Columbia, Stanford, Mayo-Rochester, WashU, Cornell, BIDMC, UMiami, Emory, Yale, UMich, UWash, UVa, OHSU, UCLA, Duke, Georgetown, UPitt, Vanderbilt, Baylor, Mt. Sinai, UAB, Cleveland Clinic, Northwestern, Rush, UCSD, UNC, UT Southwestern, UCDavis, Thomas Jefferson, UChicago, URochester, USC, Case, George Washington, UFlorida, UColorado

Uhm, are those listed in any particular order?

Would you mind expounding what you saw/heard that made you rank relatively low the programs at Cleveland Clinic, Case, and Rochester? Similarly, why OHSU highly? Was it lack of comments/opinions and thus therefore lower, or did you hear something specifically not encouraging compared to others, etc?

 

[darksideone]

40 Reputable Neurology Residency Programs in the United States
UCSF, UPenn, Hopkins, Partners, Columbia, Stanford, Mayo-Rochester, WashU, Cornell, BIDMC, UMiami, Emory, Yale, UMich, UWash, UVa, OHSU, UCLA, Duke, Georgetown, UPitt, Vanderbilt, Baylor, Mt. Sinai, UAB, Cleveland Clinic, Northwestern, Rush, UCSD, UNC, UT Southwestern, UCDavis, Thomas Jefferson, UChicago, URochester, USC, Case, George Washington, UFlorida, UColorado

You know there is a problem with your list when you start putting places like UCDavis on it (which notoriously has had problems with its program). Where is NYU on your program? They should be in the top 40 before Davis. Davis shouldn't even make the top 50. Also, any reason why Vanderbilt is ranked so high over known quality programs like CC, Rush, UNC, Thomas Jefferson, URochester...etc.?

 

[AHillock]

40 Reputable Neurology Residency Programs in the United States
UCSF, UPenn, Hopkins, Partners, Columbia, Stanford, Mayo-Rochester, WashU, Cornell, BIDMC, UMiami, Emory, Yale, UMich, UWash, UVa, OHSU, UCLA, Duke, Georgetown, UPitt, Vanderbilt, Baylor, Mt. Sinai, UAB, Cleveland Clinic, Northwestern, Rush, UCSD, UNC, UT Southwestern, UCDavis, Thomas Jefferson, UChicago, URochester, USC, Case, George Washington, UFlorida, UColorado

What in the world is Georgetown doing as a top 20 program????

 

[Nerdologist]

Once again the group of programs listed above is in no way a rank list. Scramble the list any way you want. It is just a group of 40 programs that in my opinion offer excellent general neurology education, excellent mentoring for fellowship placement, faculty support and quality of life. This is obviously just my opinion and there are obviously other schools that meet those criteria that are not listed above. Everyone's rank list is different.

 

[darksideone]

Once again the group of programs listed above is in no way a rank list. Scramble the list any way you want. It is just a group of 40 programs that in my opinion offer excellent general neurology education, excellent mentoring for fellowship placement, faculty support and quality of life. This is obviously just my opinion and there are obviously other schools that meet those criteria that are not listed above. Everyone's rank list is different.

I think the issue is that you include programs in your "top 40" list that shouldn't even be included like Georgetown, Vanderbilt, UCDavis, George Washington, UFlorida. Unless as I suspect you are including location into your variable rather than strength of clinical program.

 

[Nerdologist]

I think the issue is that you include programs in your "top 40" list that shouldn't even be included like Georgetown, Vanderbilt, UCDavis, George Washington, UFlorida. Unless as I suspect you are including location into your variable rather than strength of clinical program.

Once again I reneged in earlier posts on this being a "top 40 list." This is just a compilation of excellent programs in the United States. I stand firm that Georgetown, Vanderbilt, UCDavis, George Washington and University of Florida all have excellent programs and are capable of training excellent Neurologists. I do think this information is helpful for future applicants, as it was for me, in narrowing down a list of where to apply and travel to during interview season.

 

[darksideone]

Once again I reneged in earlier posts on this being a "top 40 list." This is just a compilation of excellent programs in the United States. I stand firm that Georgetown, Vanderbilt, UCDavis, George Washington and University of Florida all have excellent programs and are capable of training excellent Neurologists. I do think this information is helpful for future applicants, as it was for me, in narrowing down a list of where to apply and travel to during interview season.

Your "compilation of excellent programs" does no good unless you can back up your "opinion" with objective data about the programs. Anyone can throw 40 programs on a list and say they are "excellent programs." But to back it up as to why, that is a completely other story. Same fallacy with the 82 list. Too bad you can explain why Georgetown, GW and UCDavis are on the list. As someone already mentioned, Gerogetown and GW aren't even the best in the DC area; UMaryland deserves to be ranked higher than those programs. Not sure where you pulled UCDavis out from??? Want to live in Cali?

 

[typhoonegator]

Every year, this thread gets dredged back up, and every year it inspires the same vitriol. I'm not sure what makes medical students and residents think that they can really have enough information to put these sorts of lists together with any sort of external validity. Maybe after you've been doing this for 20 years and you've met half of the faculty at these places, then maybe you'd have a chance at inspiring some confidence in your rank list, but even then, how would you really know what their residency program is like? US News and World Report has an army of investigators and a huge number of metrics to put together their yearly "Best Hospitals" dog and pony show, and even that isn't particularly useful.

What exactly are we trying to accomplish here? There is no list of "best programs" that everyone would be happy with, because no one could ever agree on what variables really make a program good. Warm weather? Popular chair? Famous faculty? Small residency? Big hospital? More clinic time? More ICU time? Good jobs after residency? Fellowship opportunities? Free parking? Nice nurses? Hot EEG techs? Vegetarian lunch options? Cheap housing? Good EMG training? Good moonlighting opportunities? Historic department? Lots of PhDs? Lots of nontraditional residents? Big NIH funding? VA affiliation? Big city? Small city? South? North?

 

[AHillock]

Every year, this thread gets dredged back up, and every year it inspires the same vitriol. I'm not sure what makes medical students and residents think that they can really have enough information to put these sorts of lists together with any sort of external validity. Maybe after you've been doing this for 20 years and you've met half of the faculty at these places, then maybe you'd have a chance at inspiring some confidence in your rank list, but even then, how would you really know what their residency program is like? US News and World Report has an army of investigators and a huge number of metrics to put together their yearly "Best Hospitals" dog and pony show, and even that isn't particularly useful.

What exactly are we trying to accomplish here? There is no list of "best programs" that everyone would be happy with, because no one could ever agree on what variables really make a program good. Warm weather? Popular chair? Famous faculty? Small residency? Big hospital? More clinic time? More ICU time? Good jobs after residency? Fellowship opportunities? Free parking? Nice nurses? Hot EEG techs? Vegetarian lunch options? Cheap housing? Good EMG training? Good moonlighting opportunities? Historic department? Lots of PhDs? Lots of nontraditional residents? Big NIH funding? VA affiliation? Big city? Small city? South? North?

Well written post. I think rather than making a "40 Reputable programs" (aka top 40 programs) list, it would be more helpful to students and applicants for the poster to contribute to the interview impression page. But heaven forbid since that might actually take some time to give talk about their impression of the program. Much easier to just make a list and leave it at that.

 

[samman]

hi,
everyone has made some reall good points here but i dont think that nerdologist is way off base in terms of the first three groupings. Ive interviewed at five of these this year (Partners in group 1, Columbia in Group 2, and Miami, COrnell and BIDMC in group 3) and i tend to agree that these programs (of the 8 that i have visited) have been super high quality all around.

i entrusted the advice of a current PGY-2 (my med school alum) and he guided me on where to apply. each of the 5 i visited on this list have many good and some less good points, but in terms of my future, fellowship opportunities, quality of life etc, i will be happy to match with any of them!! for me it comes down to quality of education, location, and are the residents/faculty people id be happy working with (see stars below for 'my' rankings).

just my 2 cents...

1st group
UCSF
UPenn
Hopkins
Partners*****

2nd group
Columbia***
Stanford
Mayo-Rochester
WashU

3rd group
Cornell****
BIDMC****
UMiami*****
Emory

 

[coffeeaddict]

Nerdologist. Its unfortunate that many cannot understand what you mean by your post. I understand what you meant and bet you are laughing that so many are taking your list so literal as if you worked for US News and World Report. haha. We must all take things we read on SDN with a grain of salt. His/Her post should be used as a guide; just to throw things out there. Applicants should use other information and other sources to form their own application/interview list. Thanks for giving us your opinion and putting together a list from your experiences. I agree with the poster who said we should type up impressions rather than lists. Thats a great idea.

All the best!

 

[Terpskins99]

.

 

[darksideone]

Call me crazy, but I wouldn't place a program (GW neurology) that appears in danger of losing its residency into a "top 40" list.

But hey, to each his own.

Finally you and I agree on something.

GW has no business in the top 40. Neither do Georgetown (especially as a top 20 program), UCDavis, Florida or Vanderbilt. I mean who would put Georgetown and Vanderbilt above places like URochester, Cleveland Clinic, Case, Colorado, or UNC?

 

[Head]

It's been a few years since I was on the interview trail, but unless Vanderbilt has gone downhill recently I would say they deserve to be on the second half of the list of 40. I agree that I would not put Colorado on the top 40 list. Cleveland Clinic is a great program and should probably be around 15-20. Can't speak for the rest since I didn't interview there.

 

[Amos]

It's been a few years since I was on the interview trail, but unless Vanderbilt has gone downhill recently I would say they deserve to be on the second half of the list of 40. I agree that I would not put Colorado on the top 40 list. Cleveland Clinic is a great program and should probably be around 15-20. Can't speak for the rest since I didn't interview there.

I have no personal experience with any of the Cleveland programs, but a couple people told me that Cleveland Clinic's department is in a state of upheaval and are losing a lot of faculty?

Anyone know if there is any truth to this? I have heard good things about Case, so I am curious what people thought of Clev. Clinic.

 

[Elfy]

But heaven forbid since that might actually take some time to give talk about their impression of the program.

I agree we need chattier neurologists and aspiring neurologists around here by the time of next year's Match (personal gain raising its pretty head here). The folks in the psych forum put us all to shame when it comes to sharing!

 

[HarveyCushing]

I agree we need chattier neurologists and aspiring neurologists around here by the time of next year's Match (personal gain raising its pretty head here). The folks in the psych forum put us all to shame when it comes to sharing!

Yeah I agree, I wish there were more MS4's that would share their interview experiences so that we would have something to look back upon for information. There have been several posters who did a good job of writing up their impressions of some of the programs they visited like donesoon, samman, happywithchoice, red26777, Amos, timcc23. I really appreciated Amos's thread on the topic academic programs as he did a great job of going into detailed and providing really specific examples/details from each program. I hope we can get more of you to do that (my own self interest is at play here as well ).

 

[KillingMeSmalls]

I have no personal experience with any of the Cleveland programs, but a couple people told me that Cleveland Clinic's department is in a state of upheaval and are losing a lot of faculty?

Anyone know if there is any truth to this? I have heard good things about Case, so I am curious what people thought of Clev. Clinic.

CC lost a lot of stroke faculty with the departure of Dr. Furlan for Case. Dr. Luders also left for Case, but apparently no one was interested in leaving with him from what I heard. Since then, Case has been gaining in popularity and CC has been hurting for some new stroke faculty. Last I heard, they were hiring some new ones on, along with a couple of other fields (I can't remember which, maybe cognitive?). I can't say whether or not they've lost any more faculty since I interviewed there. I did rotate at CC, and enjoyed my time. The staff I worked with were excellent teachers, and the residents were extremely intelligent, capable, and confident. Had it not been for the city of Cleveland itself, I would've ranked it higher. You can get excellent training at either program.

 

[ohioguyo]

As a current Case MS4 I'd also speak up in favor of the Case program. I just got done with part of an 8-wk course in epilepsy/EEG taught by Dr Luders and some of the other epilepsy faculty - it's given for Case residents and visiting residents/fellows from Europe, but they let me sit in as a clinical elective and now I almost feel halfway competent with EEG before starting residency. IMO there's not as much bad blood between Case/CCF as you might think; sure there can be some posturing among the executives but the faculty is free to collaborate in research. The Case & CCF med school programs are still formally affiliated, mainly through shared clinical rotations at the same set of hospitals.

 

[bachi]

any thoughts on Kaiser/LA program?

 

[kapMD/PhD]

Anyone at OHSU? or thinking about it? or interviewed there?
how is the clinic/research/general environment?
I'm visiting Portland after the AAN meeting in May and may be a real nerd and go see the hospital too

 

[darksideone]

.

Call me crazy, but I wouldn't place a program (GW neurology) that appears in danger of losing its residency into a "top 40" list.

But hey, to each his own.

Aren't you heading to GW for neuro?

 

[95439]

You know, when someone goes out of their way to create a list of what they think the best programs are, I don't think people should get all pissy if they disagree. If you do, then post your own list so we know what you think. Otherwise, please just shut the hell up. I can hear criticism from anyone, I'd like to hear what people going thru the process of deciding on a Neurology residency, or that have already gone thru the process think. If that means I get a few erroneous opinions, then so be it. But I've started to get a consensus based on these lists of what the best programs are, and I appreciate it.
That being said, does anyone know about Cleveland Clinic's florida branch, and I'd also like to hear some opinions about Kaiser, if anyone has any valuable input....thank you to those of you who provide something constructive to this website.

 

[undecided3yr]

When will this thread die??

Look there are no legitimate rankings. Everyone has a biased opinion. Everytime someone tries to create some set of rankings, someone else will pick it apart. This thread only serves to enhance anxiety of 4th year medical students trying to figure out where they want to undergo indentured servitude.

I read this thread and feel like Im listening to college football debates about their rankings. Maybe we should have a neuro playoff system over the neuroBCS to finally establish the real top program. But then the regular season would be less important........

 

[typhoonegator]

This thread is ancient, and should be closed. If you all want to waste time with yet another "best programs" thread, then start a new one. It isn't worth all the new people having to go through this very long and very misguided thread which has unfortunately once again risen from the dead.

 

[95439]

When will this thread die??

Look there are no legitimate rankings. Everyone has a biased opinion. Everytime someone tries to create some set of rankings, someone else will pick it apart. This thread only serves to enhance anxiety of 4th year medical students trying to figure out where they want to undergo indentured servitude.

I read this thread and feel like Im listening to college football debates about their rankings. Maybe we should have a neuro playoff system over the neuroBCS to finally establish the real top program. But then the regular season would be less important........

The thing is, there's not even a 'neuro bcs' ranking system to critique. So this thread helped me out alot. I had NO idea what the best programs were, and basically had to go off that damn US News list.

 

[undecided3yr]

The thing is, there's not even a 'neuro bcs' ranking system to critique. So this thread helped me out alot. I had NO idea what the best programs were, and basically had to go off that damn US News list.

Your point is exactly the problem with this thread. It is not a reliable reference and if this should never be anyone's primary source of information. You should be able to figure out by now that this forum is full of misleading, exaggerated information and agendas. Many confident statements about programs are made on hearsay or a onetime interview, seldom by someone who actually has spent time there or has a good personal source. Also bear in mind that this original list was made when you were probably in high school and several "revised lists" were done by med students.

By the way, the NeuroBCS was a facetious analogy. I am well aware it does not exist, the arguments made in this forum remind me very much of the way the media and fans debate subjective college football rankings.

 

[95439]

Your point is exactly the problem with this thread. It is not a reliable reference and if this should never be anyone's primary source of information. You should be able to figure out by now that this forum is full of misleading, exaggerated information and agendas. Many confident statements about programs are made on hearsay or a onetime interview, seldom by someone who actually has spent time there or has a good personal source. Also bear in mind that this original list was made when you were probably in high school and several "revised lists" were done by med students.

By the way, the NeuroBCS was a facetious analogy. I am well aware it does not exist, the arguments made in this forum remind me very much of the way the media and fans debate subjective college football rankings.

Yes, but when 4 or 5 people agree what the top programs are, you can get an idea of what the best programs are.
I'm not even going into this further, if it doesn't help you, then just don't read it. There are some people that find value in it, even if you say it's erroneous. I mean, why should I take your opinion that it's a crock more than other people's opinions who have something constructive to add?

 

[coup de chance]

Do specific rankings above (from Playa274 in the early 2000s) still hold up ?
Some seem very strange to me just based on reputation.

UIC ABOVE NORTHWESTERN ?
ARIZONA ABOVE A WHOLE BUNCH OF PLACES ?
WHY ARE CINCY, HOUSTON, INDY, & OHIO SO LOW ?

I believe that syrinx/GopherBrain/most of this board are just about "right on the money" with their rankings.

Here's my "subjective/in-my-eyes" tiering (on places to go for neurology residency - based on strength of program, success of residents, location, and happiness of residents):

TOP TIER (seven - in order. These are the elite programs, and everyone knows it - with Hopkins-Penn-Mayo being very closely matched together.):
1. MGH/Partners
2. UCSF
3. Columbia
4. Hopkins
5. Penn
6. Mayo Clinic
7. Cleveland Clinic

NEXT TIER (ten - in order. All of these programs are outstanding in their own right and many are interchangeable; putting aside rivalry and insecurity of some colleagues in our field, you will be very highly regarded as a graduate from any of these programs and be competitive with the top tier.):
8. WashU
9. UCLA
10. BI
11. Cornell
12. Stanford
13. Yale
14. U of Washington
15. Emory
16. Baylor
17. Duke

ANOTHER TIER (sixty-five - in order. Yes - I am going overboard here, and I have probably forgotten a number of decent programs. In my opinion, the first few programs of 18. Mt. Sinai through 23. Virginia are the cream of this crop and have the potential of being intermixed with the above group.):
18. Mount Sinai
19. Michigan
20. U of Rochester
21. UCSD
22. U of Chicago
23. Virginia
24. Rush
25. Oregon
26. Miami
27. USC
28. Albert Einstein
29. Case Western
30. Tufts
31. Colorado
32. Brown
33. UIC
34. North Carolina
35. UAB
36. Thomas Jefferson
37. Northwestern
38. NYU
39. Arizona
40. Utah
41. Pittsburgh
42. George Washington
43. Cincinnati
44. UT Southwestern
45. U of Florida
46. Drexel
47. Vanderbilt
48. Iowa
49. UMass
50. Barrows Institute/Arizona
51. Georgetown
52. Boston U
53. Tulane
54. UMDNJ
55. Mayo/Scottdale
56. UTexas/Houston
57. Maryland
58. Minnesota
59. Wake Forest
60. Saint Louis
61. UC Irvine
62. Wisconsin/Madison
63. UC Davis
64. Henry Ford
65. Mayo/Jacksonville
66. Loyola
67. LSU
68. Cleveland Clinic/Weston
69. Michigan State
70. Indiana
71. Long Island Jewish
72. Dartmouth
73. St. Vincents/NY
74. Kentucky
75. Loma Linda
76. Temple
77. Medical College of Georgia
78. SUNY/Syracuse
79. UConn
80. Ohio State
81. New Mexico
82. SUNY/Buffalo


When I was applying for neurology residency in 2000/01, it seemed only natural to get a feel for the rank lists of other people - especially residents and fellows. I know that a 82-program list is far too lengthy, but I feel that it helps have a certain "perspective" of the grander "playing field" rather than a snap-shot of the top 5 programs.

Having known people graduating/currently at a number of programs and having personally interviewed in all four main sections of the states (15 programs - way too many ... but great for seeing new cities with the help of a moderate-sized loan) ... take it or leave it, this is my list; I tried to be as unbiased as possible, and I tried to make my list appropriate for 2005 (ie. Miami is losing Dr. Bradley as chairman and, thus, bumps them down a number of spots, and USC appears to be getting Damasio from Iowa, albeit having had Leslie Weiner recently step down as chair). IMO, when graduating and obtaining jobs, even if you're going into private practice, most recruiters/practices will prefer the resident from MGH (more 'academic') over the resident from Tufts (clinically strong) - excluding connections/etc. Also, in order to create more formality to the list, I didn't make "notes/comments" next to any of the programs. Nonetheless, it's evident that everyone has their own particular favorites (one should realize that I am in a larger program on the East Coast and may - inadvertently - have some bias), dislikes, and specific interests and family/relational obligations. The key is making the flight and deciding for yourself. Best of luck in the 2005 match!

*ADDENDUM: (I hope that this also helps some of you ...)
There's obviously no sure-fire way to make/weight/create your match list, and every individual is different. For me: when I was deciding on a neurology residency program, I found it helpful to look at a long list and make sure that I was "not missing out" on a program. Thereafter, I placed things into a pre-interview and post-interview rank list based on (not in particular order):
[1] strength of program (It's evident that there are a multitude of great programs to chose from. Don't let someone quickly defame another program for you. As in many academic fields, physicians have a lot of pride, and they usually believe that what they have is the best. Not to 'call anyone out,' but - for examle - the New York programs are quite notorious for unnecessarily putting down other programs; considering that there is a high degree of competition and close proximity of the NYC programs, this should not come as a surprise; it simply comes with the territory.)
[2] ability for residents to match a strong fellowship/go academic/go private (I've noticed that it's important for programs to not only do well at placement in strong fellowships such as EMG/neurophysiology and support residents staying on at 'home' fellowships and as attendings, but to also advocate for residents going private and residents who would prefer to go to another city/program for fellowship rather than stay on; in my opinion, flexibility and chairman/program director advocacy for 'what the residents want' are the keys.)
[3] location (As you know, you will be there for 3-4 years.)
[4] stability of program (ie. Are the program director and chairman staying and how long have they been there?)
[5] happiness and satisfaction of the residents (It is true that each residency has its own culture, which may or may not be apparent on an interview. While interviews and meeting the residents is helpful, we all know that these impressions can be made by good/bad chance and timing; things are very subjective and - on the interview trail - one should stay wary - considering that both false defamation and misplaced praise are rampant.)
[6] one's impression of the program director and chairman (They are the 'faces' of the program and, as in most semi-vertical structures, personalities/attitudes/daily activities tend to come from those in leadership positions such as the program director. They are also the ones writing your letters of recommendations for future jobs/changing positions and will - hopefully - be spending some time with you at future meetings.)

Everyone has their own criterion and likes/dislikes, and these are simply mine. From what I have seen, it's evident that these are the primary factors that go into most people's decisions. Call-backs from programs and other factors are a program's ploy to have you rank them higher. Rather than biting for their 'carrot,' perhaps you can try to move yourself up their list by simply doing a second look and/or writing them a message telling them how much you appreciate their program (if you truly do feel this way). Also, I wouldn't waste time in writing every program, and ranking a program that you do not like (however low that you may rank them) is a mistake that you may pay for. In whichever manner that you chose your match lists ... take care, and best of luck. I sincerely hope that you all get what you are wishing for.

*FOOTNOTE: I originally had a "42-program list"; thanks to PhineasGage for calling me out on forgetting about Stanford - an outstanding program in a beautiful location. As a matter of fact, with input from others on this board, I have realized that I missed a number of other programs and created this "82-program list." (Considering that I have encroached on the age of 30, my neurons have become more prone to misfiring! I want to take this moment to not only ask for forgiveness of my OCD qualities, but also to extend my sincerest apologies to the Stanford Cardinal.) Thanks to all for suggestions in potential ammendments to this list; your input is very valuable.


-274

 

[bluntdissector]

Oh God.

Nooo!

Do you realize what you've done?

 

[coup de chance]

Oh God.

Nooo!

Do you realize what you've done?

Hmm, ha-ha ???

No wait, I still don't get it. Is Playa274's list is all a charade?

(I mean just look at Playa's rankings!)

UIC ABOVE NORTHWESTERN ?
ARIZONA ABOVE A WHOLE BUNCH OF PLACES ?
WHY ARE CINCY, HOUSTON, INDY, & OHIO SO LOW ?

 

[GopherBrain]

Ahh, Fall. The leaves start to turn, a chill is in the air, and someone always digs up this damn list. Let the fighting begin.

 

[bluntdissector]

Hmm, ha-ha ???

No wait, I still don't get it. Is Playa274's list is all a charade?

(I mean just look at Playa's rankings!)

UIC ABOVE NORTHWESTERN ?
ARIZONA ABOVE A WHOLE BUNCH OF PLACES ?
WHY ARE CINCY, HOUSTON, INDY, & OHIO SO LOW ?

What Gopher said.

You just can't rank places like that. 82 programs IN ORDER? Please.

Not that they are equal, of course. It's just overkill. Is UCSF a better place to go than SUNY? Probably. Partners vs UCLA? God knows.

Or rather, God doesn't know. Which is precisely my point.

 

[medc]

Aside from personal/subjective preferences, I think the most important (and objective) thing about a program is how much it contributes to the future career of the resident. The program's reputation, strong fellowship placement and academics are in my opinion the best indicators to judge a program. Everything else is just a matter of personal preferences.

 

[Function]

Guys, I noticed that no mention of Wayne State/Detroit Medical Center has ever been made throughout the thread.. is it owing to the poor quality of the program, or could it be listed under another name that I don't know?

 

[Martin Gruber]

It seems that a lot of people on this site have put in their opinions regarding the best neurology residency programs, so I thought I might as well add my two cents. As a point of reference, I’m on faculty in a neurology department at an academic medical center in the US, and I’ve visited and interacted with faculty from all of the programs that made my list. This list is an attempt to rank the best neurology residency programs, which to me means the programs that do the best job of valuing and educating their residents. Graduates of these programs are the best clinical neurologists and excel in academics and private practice. The list is organized by geographic regions because I find most neurology residency applicants prefer to be in a certain part of the country.

Northeast
1. University of Rochester – lots of faculty focused on education, well-rounded program, generates outstanding clinical research
2. Columbia University – great neuro ICU
3. Partners Neurology Program – superb faculty, lots of research opportunities
4. Johns Hopkins University – research heavy
5. University of Pennsylvania

Southeast
1. Wake Forest University – the training program, chair, and program director are all outstanding, produces top-notch neurologists every year
2. Vanderbilt University – excellent program director, great facilities
3. University of Virginia – great residents, well-organized program
4. University of Alabama Birmingham
5. Emory University

Midwest
1. Mayo Clinic Rochester – very well organized residency program, great exposure to a wide variety of disease states, lots of faculty with broad clinic interests, probably my overall number 1
2. University of Iowa – nice clinics, well-rounded program, happy residents
3. Washington University – research heavy
4. University of Michigan – great clinical training programs
5. Cleveland Clinic

West
1. University of California San Francisco – excellent clinicians and researchers, well-organized residency program, lots of resources, produces excellent neurologists (mostly in academics)
2. University of Utah – great facilities, excellent research in focused areas
3. Stanford University – great resources
4. University of Washington
5. University of California Los Angeles

 

[maddog2020]

Seriously, this type of list is a bad idea. But since you started it, you may want to check the map and add a Southwest region.
Otherwise, I agree that there are some good programs on your list, but your list is really programs with good reputations that have research opportunities. There are plenty of programs that value the well-being and education of their residents as much or more than these.

 

[typhoonegator]

I have (literally, for years) begged to let this thread die. There are programs that are potentially good for you everywhere. There are so many forms of bias active in any of these lists that it makes my head spin.

If you're interested in neurology, please, talk to someone you trust about where to apply. Alternatively, apply to 100 programs, interview at all of them, and make the decision for yourself based on an informed opinion. Preferably, do a little of both.

No one, be they faculty, resident, student, or otherwise, can possibly have a handle on more than a few of these places at any given time. And these people don't know YOU well enough to say whether or not the qualities of a given program are applicable to you. Be your own person, see for yourself, and make an informed decision.

 

[pinkes]

Where do you rank Wayne/DMC, U tennessee, MCW??

 

[curlygirlie106]

Where do you rank Wayne/DMC, U tennessee, MCW??

You don't.

As in. You quit looking at the @#&)^@# rankings and go to to the program that's the best. fit. for. you.

Seriously. I'm sounding like a broken record here, but rankings should be the last thing you're worried about when making your match rank list. Honest. Just because a program may be ranked in the top 10, say, doesn't mean it's all sunshine and daisies, nor does it mean you're going to be happy there. It may just mean that they get a boat load of funding and have a pretty neuro ICU but their residents are miserable. And one person's #30 may be another person's #3.

Heck, I've got some significant experience with a program that's considered "top 10" by most people, where the residents are so unhappy and frankly, not all that spectacularly trained despite the world class hospital and faculty, that I'm pretty sure I'd rather not match at all than end up there.

Anyhow, the be all end all of this is, go with your gut. Do what's best for you, not what U.S. News tells you to do.

*steps off soapbox*

 

[Quigsta]

You don't.

rankings should be the last thing you're worried about when making your match rank list. Honest.

And one person's #30 may be another person's #3.

Anyhow, the be all end all of this is, go with your gut. Do what's best for you, not what U.S. News tells you to do.

*steps off soapbox*

While I agree it's best to go with your gut, I think it's a little naive to say that rankings don't matter at all - especially if you want to go in to academics. The more I interview, the more I realize just how huge the name of even your med school is to those who are evaluating you. Career wise, residency programs won't be any different. That being said, if you're not looking to do a super competitive fellowship or want to end up in private practice, then it probably doesn't matter.

 

[LocusCeruleous]

It seems that a lot of people on this site have put in their opinions regarding the best neurology residency programs, so I thought I might as well add my two cents. As a point of reference, I’m on faculty in a neurology department at an academic medical center in the US, and I’ve visited and interacted with faculty from all of the programs that made my list. This list is an attempt to rank the best neurology residency programs, which to me means the programs that do the best job of valuing and educating their residents. Graduates of these programs are the best clinical neurologists and excel in academics and private practice. The list is organized by geographic regions because I find most neurology residency applicants prefer to be in a certain part of the country.

Northeast
1. University of Rochester – lots of faculty focused on education, well-rounded program, generates outstanding clinical research
2. Columbia University – great neuro ICU
3. Partners Neurology Program – superb faculty, lots of research opportunities
4. Johns Hopkins University – research heavy
5. University of Pennsylvania

Southeast
1. Wake Forest University – the training program, chair, and program director are all outstanding, produces top-notch neurologists every year
2. Vanderbilt University – excellent program director, great facilities
3. University of Virginia – great residents, well-organized program
4. University of Alabama Birmingham
5. Emory University

Midwest
1. Mayo Clinic Rochester – very well organized residency program, great exposure to a wide variety of disease states, lots of faculty with broad clinic interests, probably my overall number 1
2. University of Iowa – nice clinics, well-rounded program, happy residents
3. Washington University – research heavy
4. University of Michigan – great clinical training programs
5. Cleveland Clinic

West
1. University of California San Francisco – excellent clinicians and researchers, well-organized residency program, lots of resources, produces excellent neurologists (mostly in academics)
2. University of Utah – great facilities, excellent research in focused areas
3. Stanford University – great resources
4. University of Washington
5. University of California Los Angeles

I would add the Barrow Neurological Institute (BNI/St. Joseph's Hospital) in Phoenix to your list for the West. It is currently ranked in the top 20 on the US News & World Report list of neuroscience programs. Of course we could have a legitimate debate about the meaning of the USN&WR list, but the BNI is ranked higher some other programs on your list.

 

[blueprints88]

I would add the Barrow Neurological Institute (BNI/St. Joseph's Hospital) in Phoenix to your list for the West. It. It is currently ranked #8 on the US News & World Report list of neuroscience programs and has been on that top ten list for at least the last 15 years. While we could have a legitimate debate about the meaning of the USN&WR list, the BNI is never-the-less ranked substantially higher than Utah, Stanford, and the University of Washington and this means something. The BNI is not closely affiliated with a university and is often underestimated as a result. However, unlike many university programs, its strength lies in the things that are most important for residents: clinical teaching, clinical volume and case mix, and clinical research. So it actually offers a better experience for residents than many of the places that are heavily basic science oriented.

BNI is well-known for neurosurgery. Neurology not so much. I didn't like the fact that during the interview, they never acknowledged this simple fact, but instead kept stressing they are top 10 by USN&WR, when in fact it's a ranking for neurosurgery/neurology. Word is also that neurology are the scut monkeys for the neurosurgery service.

 

[LocusCeruleous]

Actually, I did notice myself that the neurologists at the Barrow Neurological Institute seemed excessively proud of their US News & World Report ranking, and it is true that the USN&WR rankings may not always correlate directly with quality of the neurology residency programs.

 

[CSUram]

Also, the fact that Barrow's states that at the end of training their residents avg 10-20 read EEGs is horrific! I was reading that many a day while on EEG in my program

 

[NeurologyICU]

Also, the fact that Barrow's states that at the end of training their residents avg 10-20 read EEGs is horrific! I was reading that many a day while on EEG in my program

Source/link to the above statement please?

 

[LocusCeruleous]

I do not know what the website says but this is just not the case. I rotated through Barrow a while back and the residents were reading many EEGs per day. They were even reading the acute EEGs. You might speak with the residency program director, Dr. Chung. He is an epileptologist and would know about how many EEGs the residents actually read.