beth israel surgery: please read

[unfrknblvble]

Just wanted to see if anyone is applying or is thinking about interviewing at Beth Israel's general surgery program. If so, this will be important to you. First of all, they will not disclose this officially, but they run a traditional pyramid scheme where some residents get held back and some even get fired. Those who interview there should ask specifically about this to both faculty and staff and see if the truth comes to light. About the surgery experience, many of the attendings do not let residents have any autonomy. And much of the first few years is spent on the floors running the wards and not in the operating room. Everyone runs around scared because the chairman josef fisher is a real piece of work. The above is just the beginning. I want to generate some discussion so that incoming residents do not make the mistake of ignoring some red flags about this program. Please feel free to p.m. me.

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[Bitsy3221]

Thanks for the info, but just out of curiosity, is the surgical programs you have seen so very different? I know several top-notch programs where the junior level residents never see the inside of an OR (just operated w/ a PGY-2 at a "top tier program" who was just seeing his fifth lap chole and first lap inguinal hernia since residency began), and autonomy seems to be in very short supply. At my home program, the faculty are very keen on surveying the skills of their residents on all levels and in some cases, yes--they will tell a resident that they have just not attained the skills needed to move to the next year, and have that resident repeat a year. Am I the only person who thinks this may not be a totally bad thing? If I was not ready to be a PGY-4 or PGY-5, I would sincerely hope my faculty would have taken enough of an interest in me and my education to be honest with me and hold me back. It is overall better for the resident who may need more training and in the best interest of the patients that resident is going to be operating on. There is no magic to the five years--some residents may be able to function independently at the beginning of their PGY-4 year and others still may be a bit shaky at the end of their PGY-5 year. Would it hurt? Yeah. But IMHO I think it shows the faculty may actually be interested in training the best residents possible at the risk of bruising a few egos.

 

[madtowngirl]

That sounds like a problem with the program. If more than the occasional resident is being held back a year, don't you think that the program isn't teaching them what they need to know to succeed in residency and beyond? I for one don't want any extra years of residency if I can help it!

 

[Winged Scapula]

... First of all, they will not disclose this officially, but they run a traditional pyramid scheme where some residents get held back and some even get fired.

Just for semantic clarification for those not in the know...

ACGME and RRC forbid programs from having a pyramidal structure. Therefore, programs which tend to operate as such, must keep in on the down low as they can be fined for it.

This does not mean that programs enter interns into a residency with more bodies than there are positions. This is clearly outside of the regulations. But rather, when residents are held back or fired, this may seem like a pyramidal structure but is not in fact - but either evidence of other problems in the program.

 

[unfrknblvble]

I guess some people are aware of pyramid programs or know of programs that often hold back an extra year to improve there skills. I think this is fine if programs are truthful about this. But i think this is done with some deception. This is definitely not well known on the interview trail and I suspect this information is often specifically withheld from applicants. But either way, it is something to keep in mind when applying to so called "top programs." There may some discontent within the program that may not come to light at the surface. I know this is the case at BIDMC. Many of the residents are reluctant to speak the truth because they are afraid it may come back to hurt them. Good luck on the interview trail.