better to date/marry another MD or someone not medical?

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just curious, what are your thoughts on dating/marriage when it comes to this? do you think its better to date/marry a fellow doctor/med student or to date/marry someone outside the field?

ive tried both. when i was a premed, i dated another premed student very seriously. i found that we had tons in common but our relationship was a disaster (we were too similar, too stressed, competitive, all we did was talk about medicine)

now im dating an engineer. i find it very refreshing to not constantly be talking about medicine, the hospital, etc. also, he's much more relaxed and keeps me sane.

just my opinion. my parents are both docs so clearly this works for some people!

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Yeah, I'm dating someone non-medical and find it very refreshing. Plus, she's impressed with everything I say even if it's just listing off the bones of the wrist! 🙂

But I do know of other couples who are two MDs. I'm sure what specialty each person is in makes a difference, too. For isntance, two derm folks might work well, but two trauma surgeons? You get the idea. If both peoples' schedules included long and erratic hours, chances are very low that they'll ever be around each other and not exhausted. It's nice to have one more "stable" 9-5-er in the relationship, I think.
 
... this works for some people!

I think this is the key. Every situation is different. Depends on the two individuals in the relationship; it'll work out for some, and not for others...
 
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every situation IS different. but my two cents are...if theyre not in medicine, they wont understand why you're "cramming" for an exam two weeks ahead of time, why your gen surgery rotation requires you to be in the hospital 36 hours in a row, and why, when you get back home, all you want to do is sleep

it can work, but they have to be very very understanding, and even though everyone says "my girl/guy is"...its a rarity

then again i also heard from someone that even tho the divorce rate for doctors is high, its even higher if they are two docs married to each other. not sure if that's true or not.

so my theory goes out the window if that is indeed true.

btw...i've seen some places quote neurosurgery's divorce rate as high as 90%! comments?
 
every situation IS different. but my two cents are...if theyre not in medicine, they wont understand why you're "cramming" for an exam two weeks ahead of time, why your gen surgery rotation requires you to be in the hospital 36 hours in a row, and why, when you get back home, all you want to do is sleep

it can work, but they have to be very very understanding, and even though everyone says "my girl/guy is"...its a rarity

then again i also heard from someone that even tho the divorce rate for doctors is high, its even higher if they are two docs married to each other. not sure if that's true or not.

so my theory goes out the window if that is indeed true.

btw...i've seen some places quote neurosurgery's divorce rate as high as 90%! comments?

Here is an interesting article that attempts to cover a lot of ground (including physician divorce) and states that physicians are 10 to 20% more likely to divorce than the general population and even when they don't, they tend to have unhappier marriages for a variety of obvious and perhaps non-obvious reasons.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/410643_2 (the article actually starts on the "previous" page.

A more recent article here is more to the point (this is a Canadian article but also reports U.S. stats):

http://www.nationalreviewofmedicine.com/issue/2006/03_15/3_physicians_life02_05.html

DOCS MARRIED TO DOCS
A 1999 survey of US docs found 22% of male physicians were married to another working physician. A 2002 study looking at dual physician marriages found they have a relatively low divorce rate of 11%. "They're a happily married cohort," says Dr Sotile. "They're more compassionate about the passion for the career — they understand the calling because they share it."

Nevertheless, every medical marriage has to have a stress absorber. Usually this role is filled by the non-physician in the marriage. "One MD might have to choose not to take their first choice speciality," he says. "This is tough — they'll get no support from their families, so these marriages can start off with strain." On the upside, two-physician marriages tend to learn to be more flexible, and Dr Sotile found docs married to docs tend to work slightly shorter hours.

(skipping up) ...

ANGRY YOUNG MEN
Dr Sotile says easily the most angry and disgruntled group he's encountered is young men married to physicians. "This was a real surprise to us," he says. "We're still dealing with old horrid wiring about sex roles." The message he hears over and over from these young men is "if my masculinity's not being honoured, I get angry." Take this angry post on the website MedicalSpouse.com from Matt, a SAHD (stay-at-home dad) married to a pediatrician: "So, DW [dear wife] is now off on her third conference. The boys and I get to stay at home. She's 'roughing it' in the Colorado Mtns. She had to go and get the required CME credits, but please.... she's going on a sleigh ride, pulled by draft horses to a secluded cabin in the resort, fed a magnificent meal, FREE DRINKS, and hot chocolate.... how romantic." Wives on the site express these sentiments too but are much more resigned.

(skipping up still further) ...
Over the years they've discovered that medical marriages don't break down for the reason you'd assume. "More than the hours worked, what determines levels of stress is the physician's mood when they get home," says Dr Sotile emphatically. "Are they too tired to participate in family life? Are they irritated or worried about work?" He says many doctors make the fatal mistake of "wearing the sack cloth and ashes all the time," but not showing compassion to their own families. "They'll say, 'I'm dealing with life or death issues here — of course I can't go to Joe's baseball game.'"

MD DIVORCE STATS
A growing number of studies have delved into physician divorce. There are wide variations depending on sex and speciality. According to a 1997 US study, psychiatrists have the highest rate at around 50%; surgeons are next at 33%; the profession as a whole has a divorce rate of 29%. The study found an elevated divorce rate among female physicians and those who married while still in med school.

A 2003 study by Dr Gail Robinson of the Toronto General Hospital into stresses faced by women doctors found that "rates of successful suicide and divorce are much higher" than in the general public.

Here is another reference to the 1997 US study:
http://www.scienceblog.com/community/older/1997/A/199700590.html
Over 30 years of follow-up, the divorce rate was 51 percent for psychiatrists, 33 percent for surgeons, 24 percent for internists, 22 percent for pediatricians and pathologists, and 31 percent for other specialties. The overall divorce rate was 29 percent after three decades of follow-up and 32 percent after nearly four decades of follow-up.

Physicians who married before medical school graduation had a higher divorce rate than those who waited until after graduation (33 percent versus 23 percent). The year of first marriage was linked with divorce rates: 11 percent for marriages before 1953, 17 percent for those from 1953 to 1957, 24 percent for those from 1958 to 1962 and 21 percent for those after 1962. Those who had a parent die before medical school graduation had a lower divorce rate.

Female physicians had a higher divorce rate (37 percent) than their male colleagues (28 percent). Physicians who were members of an academic honor society in medical school had a lower divorce rate, although there was no difference in divorce rates according to class rank. Religious affiliation, being an only child, having a parent who was a physician and having a divorced parent were not associated with divorce rates.

Physicians who reported themselves to be less emotionally close to their parents and who expressed more anger under stress also had a significantly higher divorce rate, but anxiety and depression levels were not associated with divorce rate.

"Healthy marriages have deep affection, compatibility, expressiveness and conflict resolution, so the higher risk of divorce in those less emotionally close to their parents could be telling," says Klag. "Feeling distant from your parents may indicate a decreased ability to form an intimate relationship with your spouse. Also, marriage after medical school may allow the relationship to develop in a less stressful environment."
 
I think that in any type of successful relationship, communication is key. That is, if one is a doctor, while one is not, then communicating to the other about the sacrifices that will be made and the reality of hard times to come is what will make a relationship work. That is, not dropping the ball a week before starting your residency, and instead letting the other person know once the relationship becomes serious is what will make things work in the long run. The same goes for doctor-doctor type relationships, with a few differences in topics of communication and explanation.
 
i agree communication is important...they stress that from high school sex-ed to sociology 1 and any family studies class

despite its stress, marriages are still failing (as is my spelling; is that how you even spell marriage, or is it marraige?...first way looks right)

regardless, while communication is key, understanding that is key too. i can tell someone absolutely everything, but if they don't understand, or arent willing to endure the sacrifices with me and trudge through the hard times, it's just not going to work

anyone can communicate, but only the wise and mature will listen and act accordingly. yes many families have communication problem and some even say its the biggest problem in families today, but such definitions are subject to interpretation, as almost anything can be attributed to a communication problem

saying communication assumed the other person is mature and wise enough to understand this. i don't think that maturity and understanding are a given. that's why medical school is notorious for breaking up relationships (especially those that never made it to marriage). often, the other person just doesn't understand, even tho it may have been communicated plenty.

in summary, i think communication is only half the battle. hopefully by this stage everyone here knows that. understanding is a whole different challenge.
 
What's all that bull**** about...

be with someone you love, someone you REALLY care about no matter what... and make sure it goes both ways. That's the whole point of being with somebody

ive tried both. when i was a premed, i dated another premed student very seriously. i found that we had tons in common but our relationship was a disaster (we were too similar, too stressed, competitive, all we did was talk about medicine)

I made the same mistakes plenty until I realised I didn't love people I was with.. but only liked talking about THINGS i loved with those persons

my advice would be: don't "narrow your selection" according to their profession. The only case you SHOULD is if you're a doctor and your partner is an unemployed guy/girl that doesn't plan on getting any kind of degree/life.

good luck,

The doctor's nemesis aka osmodiar
 
i thought about this today some more too...(damn scrubs episodes)

i think a "love conquers all" attitude is dangerous, idealistic, and...well, disastrous if you don't put some real thought, effort, and, well...good sense into it.

before one can truly UNDERSTAND what the other person COMMUNICATES, he needs to understand himself. a very competitive, self-motivated individual wanting to see how far he goes and unwilling to sacrifice anything...he can communicate it all he wants, its not fair to expect the other ot understand.
one needs to understand himself; a no-compromise attitude is not good for a marriage, and will really be tested if a child comes along...and that's not fair to the child if divorce ensues.

1) know thyself
2) know thy partner
3) communicate
4) compromise

eventually i think a niche will settle where the compromises aren't even compromises, its...well, love's too cheesey, but its your life that you chose. and you'll be glad you did if youre happy
 
thats a good point about not loving the person but only loving the things you talk about with that person. hmmm, that really sums up my past relationship in a nutshell

not sure if that most recent question was aimed at me or at everyone, but no i am definitely NOT dating someone just for their profession. do you think engineering is something that fascinates me? if it was, i would become an engineer

anyway, i guess the most important thing is that you are with someone who treats you well and understands (and is proud of) who you are and the things you need to do.

also, i definitely think you need similar goals, morals, levels of intellect, attitudes about love and marriage, etc
 
Better to marry someone you love.
Or that looks hot.
Or that is loaded.
Or a combination of the previous three.
 
Here is another reference to the 1997 US study:
http://www.scienceblog.com/community/older/1997/A/199700590.html
Over 30 years of follow-up, the divorce rate was 51 percent for psychiatrists, 33 percent for surgeons, 24 percent for internists, 22 percent for pediatricians and pathologists, and 31 percent for other specialties. The overall divorce rate was 29 percent after three decades of follow-up and 32 percent after nearly four decades of follow-up.

Anyone know the average divorce rate for all Americans regardless of profession? In the past I recall reading articles putting it around 50%. Without the hard data in front of me I wouldn't be suprised if doctor's have a significantly lower rate of divorce than the population in general.

Relationships certainly require good communication and compromising from both partners in order to succeed. Perhaps the stressors associated with medical school and a medical profession force physicians to tackle these issues head on and learn them at an earlier point in the relationship.

Like others who have posted, I agree that individual situations are different and everyone deals with situations differently. I just think it's important to consider social norms as a whole when discussing topics such as this and considering statistical data.
 
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I've actually been thinking about this a lot recently. I am dating a woman who is a year older than I. She, however, is still in college and working two part-time jobs. Regardless of what some of my friends/family think of her chosen path, she's a breath of fresh air in my life. As someone who put herself through four years of college, I value her dedication to her education, especially since school has never been her forte. She definitely enhances my life, infinitely more so than most (ok, all) of my fellow students. I'd much rather be in a relationship with someone who I can share every bit of myself with regardless of her professional status - unlike my roommate who routinely tells me she wouldn't consider dating someone who didn't have a professional degree ... her list continues ... into the night. 🙄
 
Anyone know the average divorce rate for all Americans regardless of profession? In the past I recall reading articles putting it around 50%. Without the hard data in front of me I wouldn't be suprised if doctor's have a significantly lower rate of divorce than the population in general.

Relationships certainly require good communication and compromising from both partners in order to succeed. Perhaps the stressors associated with medical school and a medical profession force physicians to tackle these issues head on and learn them at an earlier point in the relationship.

Like others who have posted, I agree that individual situations are different and everyone deals with situations differently. I just think it's important to consider social norms as a whole when discussing topics such as this and considering statistical data.

i agree wholeheartedly. while we all want to say we are not a statistic...unfortunately, the definition of statistics begs to disagree. and unfortunately, general statistics say that half of the married ppl reading this forum are divorced, or will get divorced.

as far as doctors, it depends ont he specialty. some noted figures lower than 30%, which is better than the general population. psychiatry someone quoted at 50%, which is about the same. Neurosurgery I saw as high as 90%.

everyone thinks of love, devotion, compromise, caring, respect, etc. and yet marriages fail. working iwth neurosurgeons, i can understand why that statistic is so high. i keep telling myself that i'll be one of the ten percent who succeeds, but to the rest of you, you say probably not. the sad truth is, it's difficult to compromise in nsg, and until i'm in a position to recognize an be able to admit that, i'm not going to even think of being with another woman. even if she's willing, if i truly loved her, i wouldnt put her up to that kind of abuse, constant sacrifice, etc.

Situations are unique, but the statistics are widespread, and kind of dire in this case. My above admittance happened not long ago, which is why I guess i'm spending time on this thread to share.

i also agree that its naive to say you won't even consider someone in or not in the profession. however, it's more likely that when the two do share the same profession, there is a greater chance of understanding each other's situation right off the bat.

an asian dating an asian doesn't mean he's racist, and won't consider othe races. he's just found that members of his own background share his beliefs, views, culture, religion, traditions, outlooks, goals, etc. and it makes it that much smoother. the same goes with a doctor "keeping an eye out for other doctors" but it should never be a determining, absolute factor.
 
Anyone know the average divorce rate for all Americans regardless of profession? In the past I recall reading articles putting it around 50%. Without the hard data in front of me I wouldn't be suprised if doctor's have a significantly lower rate of divorce than the population in general.

....

http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/p70-80.pdf

The National Center for Health Statistics ... released a report which found that 43 percent of first marriages end in separation or divorce within 15 years.
 
I've also been on both sides of the spectrum. When I was dating someone in med school, we'd see each other all the time, which was nice at first, but when one would do better than the other, it'd get nasty, and we got tired of the drama of "who's sitting next to whom in class."
Dating someone not in the health professions is amazing because she has all kinds of interesting topics to talk about with me, and we're so similar in other ways that it makes up for the lack of familiarity with respiratory physiology.

In the end I think it's more about you and him/her than about whether or not their in med school with you.
 
Do med students socialize with non-medical people while in med school? If not, then have to date/marry a medical person by default.

I am curious, but I just got accepted so I am not fully aware of life as a medical student. From observation, it seems that med students only have enough time to socialize with other med students; this is generally true for schools in any location. The theme of a med student's life is focused on studying, if not, then activties with other people in the medical school.

If this is really true, then most medical people have only other medical professionals in their social circle, probably from medical school all the way to the end of residency/fellowship. Now being in late 20 / early 30, when most people get married, one is more likely to marry someone in one's social circle. Wouldn't that make it hard to meet someone outside the medical profession?

I guess what I am curious to hear is, if you plan to get married before 35, you are limiting yourself to other medical professionals?
 
Better to marry someone you love.
Or that looks hot.
Or that is loaded.
Or a combination of the previous three.

Exaclty what I was going to say....Marry someone you love.

From experience, my SO for over 5 years is a marine biologist/oceanographer. I can't completely explain what med school is like. No amount of communication can convey some of the aspects of my life, and it has made things difficult on rare occassions. So far, everything has continued to work out.
 
thats a good point about not loving the person but only loving the things you talk about with that person. hmmm, that really sums up my past relationship in a nutshell

not sure if that most recent question was aimed at me or at everyone, but no i am definitely NOT dating someone just for their profession. do you think engineering is something that fascinates me? if it was, i would become an engineer

anyway, i guess the most important thing is that you are with someone who treats you well and understands (and is proud of) who you are and the things you need to do.

also, i definitely think you need similar goals, morals, levels of intellect, attitudes about love and marriage, etc

I'm glad you could figure all of that out after all,

Good luck in your upcoming relationships
 
I think that in any type of successful relationship, communication is key. That is, if one is a doctor, while one is not, then communicating to the other about the sacrifices that will be made and the reality of hard times to come is what will make a relationship work. That is, not dropping the ball a week before starting your residency, and instead letting the other person know once the relationship becomes serious is what will make things work in the long run. The same goes for doctor-doctor type relationships, with a few differences in topics of communication and explanation.

I definitely can relate to that. Any time I can't set "something straight" between me and her, I get irritated. I don't think a relationship will work well that way.

:laugh:
 
Do med students socialize with non-medical people while in med school? If not, then have to date/marry a medical person by default.

I am curious, but I just got accepted so I am not fully aware of life as a medical student. From observation, it seems that med students only have enough time to socialize with other med students; this is generally true for schools in any location. The theme of a med student's life is focused on studying, if not, then activties with other people in the medical school.

If this is really true, then most medical people have only other medical professionals in their social circle, probably from medical school all the way to the end of residency/fellowship. Now being in late 20 / early 30, when most people get married, one is more likely to marry someone in one's social circle. Wouldn't that make it hard to meet someone outside the medical profession?

I guess what I am curious to hear is, if you plan to get married before 35, you are limiting yourself to other medical professionals?


You never have to date/marry anyone by default. Non-medical people exist all around us. You can meet them anywhere. And more than a few will like the idea of dating/marrying a future doctor. The trick is finding one that puts up with the crummy hours. So ideally find someone who works and has their own group of friends (and isn't depending on you). Most doctors are married to non-doctors, and a whole lot of those marriages seem to work fine.
 
What's all that bull**** about...

be with someone you love, someone you REALLY care about no matter what... and make sure it goes both ways. That's the whole point of being with somebody

Best-sounding advice in this thread.

If you need a more definitive answer, check Panda Bear's blog. It's gotta be covered in there.
 
im a female med student married to an engineer (has a masters). i actually had wanted to marry a doc because i thought a doc would be more understanding of the crazy schedule. but my husband is really understanding and im glad i dont have to worry about dealing with a dual-doc home. i think it works because i still have a desire to be there for my kids and ive chosen a specialty where i can have a pretty relaxed work life when im done with residency. we havent considered him being a stay at home dad or anything. it important to both of us that he works out of the home and has a decent paying job where he feels productive (good because there's less ego problems to deal with). its nice to know that he has a job where his being late by 30 minutes or having to take a day off will not ruin his career nor does he have to answer to others if he wants to use the phone or take his lunch an hour later (unlike a med student/resident who is constantly having to stick to certain hours and expectations). this will probably be useful when we have kids and something unexpected comes up (although our general understanding is that his career is not at all secondary to mine. its just more flexible).
 
Do med students socialize with non-medical people while in med school? If not, then have to date/marry a medical person by default.

I am curious, but I just got accepted so I am not fully aware of life as a medical student. From observation, it seems that med students only have enough time to socialize with other med students; this is generally true for schools in any location. The theme of a med student's life is focused on studying, if not, then activties with other people in the medical school.

If this is really true, then most medical people have only other medical professionals in their social circle, probably from medical school all the way to the end of residency/fellowship. Now being in late 20 / early 30, when most people get married, one is more likely to marry someone in one's social circle. Wouldn't that make it hard to meet someone outside the medical profession?

I guess what I am curious to hear is, if you plan to get married before 35, you are limiting yourself to other medical professionals?


The answer completely depends on your priorities. When you're in med school, it's very easy to socialize with classmates bc they're pretty much all you see all day every day. So if you happen to meet and date someone, then that's fine. That being said, you will have Friday nights and weekends to go out. What happened to me was after our first 2 semesters, my group of 3 other guys got really tired of the drama associated with dating classmates, and we made it a point to go out and meet people that weren't in medical school. It ended up working for all of us, as we all started dating people outside of medical school (with varying degrees of success). Not to mention that regardless of the outcome, all of us had better relationships with "non med school" people than with classmates.
 
I think it all depends on your personnality. I personnaly couldn't stand being married to one of my classmates and seeing him everyday or being married to a doc and both going through the same stressful profession. A couple in my class broke up before a big exam (not that any exam inmed school is small)and that was rough on them.
Thankfully I found my match and I'm married to a great guy who has nothing to do with medicine and has his own rewarding career but kept me sane during my first semester. It's refreshing to get home and have someone reminds me that there are other interesting things beside cranial nerves and brachial plexus. Plus he has time to keep the house together when I'm overwhelmed with histology, I have to confess that I didn't even see my laundry machine my first semester bc hubby was there to make sure I had clean clothes to wear.
It's true that he can't really understand how much I have to study but he can try to understand and reminds that he's there for me no matter what , I think that's the most important.
That said I see some couples in my class who seem to love it and I know plenty of doc couples who seem happy.
 
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