Beware of Masters programs

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sorry, was trying to edit my message and had to leave in a hurry.

I talked to an adcom of a public dental school. He told me that they weigh grad school grades far less than undergraduate grades. I asked him why and he said that you can't get a C in a masters class. He said that masters programs don't give out anything less than a B. I'm sure he is exaggerating but if he has this impression of masters programs, it wouldn't suprise me if other adcoms did too. Besides, there are a ton of masters students in here. It seems like everyone of them has no less than a 3.5 GPA There is some truth to what he is saying. Why is it that everyone in a masters program have these insane GPA's.
 
First of all, master degree has so many different curriculum.
It is not like a student needs to take chem, bio, phy, english, etc...
Therefore, it is quite hard for anyone to compare the grades among different programs.

But MS does show you that you want to learn and put the effort. I believe adcom acknowledge that.

If a person is not confident about their GPA, my opinion is to get into a post-bac program. They help you to get into a dental school.
 
Or it may be high because for many people a masters program is a second and final chance of getting good grades.
 
Still, it's pretty difficult to get 3.8 GPA's and higher. When you see all these people have masters gpa's that high, it makes you wonder.
 
I have a 4.0 in my past 45 units, mostly BCP classes. still have about 15 more to go.

When you take it seriously these classes are NOT that hard. I admit when I was younger I used to get mostly B's with minimal effort.
 
I have heard this too. For a while, I was considering applying to PhD programs (entomology of all things 🙂 ) and while discussing this with my science professors I had at least two tell me that it is next to impossible to get a C in grad school. Apparently it is very easy to get good grades. As ecdoesit says, the recommended method of fixing a poor GPA is usually to do a postbacc.
 
Sorry, but I 100% disagree with these posts.

A Masters is NOTHING to be ashamed of, and it WILL give you an advantage over other applicants.

If you are looking to only raise your grades then it might not be the best choice, but in no way would it put you at a disadvantage.

Further, we typically do very well in the courses we enjoy. Masters students are pursuing only courses they enjoy. Why would they get less than a B?

Also, most schools wouldn't let a student into a masters program if they weren't capable of making all As. Usually seats are limited, and students who did detailed research during undergrad are given major priority over other applicants. Students doing masters programs love what they are doing, and often work in a close and intimate setting with professors and other faculty mentors. Once again, there isn't any reason for them to NOT get As.

And finally, not all adcoms view masters as a bad thing. Actually, the degree itself shows that the applicant took their education seriously and desired to further it in a specific area. Adcoms know you're going to get great grades in a masters program--that's what comes with working hand-in-hand with professors and researchers.
 
I agree with what Gavin says. Also, generally classes are not the major focus of most masters programs(at least in engineering where I did mine). Doing research and writing a thesis/dissertation is a major focus of your time and efforts in graduate school. My guess is that adcom that made that statement may have been referring to grades alone and not the graduate school experience as a whole.
 
I agree with Gavin....

Also, students perform better because they are more mature and their study habits are different than when they started university.
 
Originally posted by zimaad
I agree with what Gavin says. Also, generally classes are not the major focus of most masters programs(at least in engineering where I did mine). Doing research and writing a thesis/dissertation is a major focus of your time and efforts in graduate school. My guess is that adcom that made that statement may have been referring to grades alone and not the graduate school experience as a whole.
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He was speaking from an admissions point of view. He was not being critical of the graduate schools experience as a whole. But he wasn't too moved by a high gpa in a masters program. He was convinced that the majority of masters programs don't give out anything less than a C. I thought I would share this with you in case you were thinking about a masters degree. The adcom was Dr. Cole at the University of Tennessee School of dentistry.
 
Well, the masters program I was in must be the exception to the rule.

I was enrolled in the non-thesis Biology M.S. program at St. John's University in Queens, New York.

Non-thesis. We took only lecture classes and seminars-- NO lab research AT ALL. And all our grades were determined by exams. The instructors aren't shy of handing out Cs if you miss the cutoff point in your exam score.

I managed a 4.0 GPA while enrolled there as a part-time night student while holding down a full-time day job in the admissions office so I can get free tuition. It was exhausting and never easy. 😛

If it wasn't for my time at St. John's M.S. program, I would never have gotten into dental school.
 
Sorry but this is true. There are a lot of adcoms who give less weight to gpa's in masters programs. The curriculum in a masters program consists mostly of research related classes. There are very few didactic classes in these programs. And you would be hard pressed to find a professor who would give you less than an A on a research credit. Think about it. You propose your project, You often work unsupervised by your overseeing professor. There are no exams to worry about. All you have to do is show evidence that you are working on your project and there you have it, an A. Furthermore, these masters programs have a small number of students so professors don't feel the need to weed them out like they would with their 200 student O-chem class.

If you don't believe me, just go to the stats pages. You will see students with high GPA's in their masters program not get accepted into dental school. And I have personal experience with this. I have two cousins who go their Masters in Public Health. Each of them had GPA's exceeding a 3.7. Neither person got into medical school despite applying twice. They had to go to the Carribean instead.

So if you are trying to raise your GPA or prove you are capable of handing dental school, I would enter a post-bacc or a special masters program which is not thesis centered and focuses on class work.
 
Originally posted by UBTom
Well, the masters program I was in must be the exception to the rule.

I was enrolled in the non-thesis Biology M.S. program at St. John's University in Queens, New York.

Non-thesis. We took only lecture classes and seminars-- NO lab research AT ALL. And all our grades were determined by exams. The instructors aren't shy of handing out Cs if you miss the cutoff point in your exam score.

I managed a 4.0 GPA while enrolled there as a part-time night student while holding down a full-time day job in the admissions office so I can get free tuition. It was exhausting and never easy. 😛

If it wasn't for my time at St. John's M.S. program, I would never have gotten into dental school.
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But I also remember you telling us how you didn't get in after your first attempt at applying to dental school. This is after you got your 4.0 GPA in your masters program. That's not a very good selling tool for a masters program.

Anyway, I know you worked hard but that' just it. Adcoms probably don't know the difference between your masters program vs. another one.
 
Actually, no. My first attempt at applying to dental schools back in 1997 was when I was fresh out of undergrad-- before I did the M.S. program.

I was rejected by all the schools I applied to that first attempt. Dr. Milton Bell, then Dean of Admissions at NYUCD, wanted me to do an M.S. before re-applying because he thought my grades in undergrad were weak. Heard the same spiel from Dr. Robert Joynt too at Buffalo.

Perhaps things has changed in the past 7 years, but that M.S. program was MY ticket into dental school!

I didn't want to do an M.S. either.. Unfortunately, at the time I was a beggar who couldn't be a chooser so I had no choice. 😛
 
I dunno man... My 3.0 undergrad GPA from Columbia University didn't seem to impress too many interviewers..

SUNY Stony Brook was one of those supercompetitive schools that took something like 30 students a year. That's the only very competitive school I applied to and believe me I tried to deal myself every card with that school by applying early and all the other tricks in the book. I really wanted to go there because it was close to home and it was inexpensive (me being an NYS resident and it being a state school and all). Despite my efforts I didn't even get an interview on my first attempt.

My second attempt, after two years of maintaining a 4.0 GPA in a masters biology program, rated an interview but didn't get any further than that.

UB and NYU are pretty good alternatives though..
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This is the quote I was referring to. But I guess misread your quote. Anyway, you have one more year man, and you are done! It's a gotta be a great feeling. Congrats
 
Well I didn't get an MBA to boost my grades bec my undergrad wasn't bad at all. I did it to get more business knowledge since I would run a buisness one day.

Now I got a 3.7. Was it easy...hell no it wasn't. It was a tremendous amount of work with so many exams. I think it depends on the school you are going to. My buddy did an MBA at the University of Phoneix and he told me its was easier than community college. I even looked at some of his work and began to wonder why this program even existed.

I believe the avg GPA for those graduating with me was around 3.2. And remember this. If you got one C you were on probation if you got another you were kicked out. So this could be another reason for the higher GPA's bec people study more and the C students are kicked out.

One thing though, at all my interviews no one asked me about MBA or even undergrad grades...to this day I wonder why.
 
But everybody is still skirting the issue. Sure, they may not care for the grades that are associated with the Masters, but who are they going to take? Somebody fresh out of undergrad or somebody with a Masters degree?

I'm nearly positive that 9/10 adcoms would take the Masters holder over the other applicant.
 
Originally posted by Brocnizer2007
Well I didn't get an MBA to boost my grades bec my undergrad wasn't bad at all. I did it to get more business knowledge since I would run a buisness one day.

Now I got a 3.7. Was it easy...hell no it wasn't. It was a tremendous amount of work with so many exams. I think it depends on the school you are going to. My buddy did an MBA at the University of Phoneix and he told me its was easier than community college. I even looked at some of his work and began to wonder why this program even existed.

I believe the avg GPA for those graduating with me was around 3.2. And remember this. If you got one C you were on probation if you got another you were kicked out. So this could be another reason for the higher GPA's bec people study more and the C students are kicked out.

One thing though, at all my interviews no one asked me about MBA or even undergrad grades...to this day I wonder why.
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I was referring to someone getting a masters in biology or another science related field to compensate for a low undergrad GPA. I didn't mean masters degrees in general like an mba
 
Originally posted by ItsGavinC
But everybody is still skirting the issue. Sure, they may not care for the grades that are associated with the Masters, but who are they going to take? Somebody fresh out of undergrad or somebody with a Masters degree?

I'm nearly positive that 9/10 adcoms would take the Masters holder over the other applicant.
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Not according to Dr. Coleman at Tennessee. He told me that undergraduate grades are more important. He would take the student with the higer undergrad GPA than a student with a low undergrad GPA and a high masters. He more or less wasn't impressed by a masters degree due to his bias. It wouldn't suprise me if other adcoms felt the same way.
 
Depends on the particular dean or adcom, I suppose. As previously mentioned, two dental school deans of admissions actually WANTED me to do a masters before re-applying.
 
UBTom quote
My second attempt, after two years of maintaining a 4.0 GPA in a masters biology program, rated an interview but didn't get any further than that.
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You still didn't get in after after your second application attempt after completing your masters?
 
On my second application attempt I got into both of the schools where the deans told me I should do a masters-- UB and NYU.
Waitlisted at Columbia SDOS and interviewed at Stony.

LOL, I don't think I would have gone through reapplying a third time if I still hadn't gotten anywhere on my second attempt! I do value my sanity, you know. 😀
 
Originally posted by UBTom
On my second application attempt I got into both of the schools where the deans told me I should do a masters-- UB and NYU.
Waitlisted at Columbia SDOS and interviewed at Stony.

LOL, I don't think I would have gone through reapplying a third time if I still hadn't gotten anywhere! I do value my sanity, you know. 😀
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Was that a typo in your original quote?
 
No. Gotta remember that quote Mcataz looked at was my comment about applying to Stony. That is one TOUGH dental school to get into.
 
Originally posted by UBTom
No. Gotta remember that quote Mcataz looked at was my comment about applying to Stony. That is one TOUGH dental school to get into.
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heck yeah it is. How many people do they take? like 30 or something? Looks like the masters paid off, one more year!
 
Yeah... I have a feeling that in the eyes of the Stony Brook adcom I was Forrest Gump. :laugh: The average undergrad GPA for their class of 2005 was 3.5, and they take very, very few out-of-staters because Stony is a State University of New York school.

If I had to do it all over again, I would just get better undergrad grades like you said so I wouldn't have to take the detour with the masters and essentially waste a few years of my life. Wise words of caution to those who think college is all party!

In my case I had to grit my teeth and go through with it and do what needs to be done... You can imagine the countless nights when I get home 10PM after a full day of work then classes at night, I would collapse into bed and mentally kick myself for getting into such a mess by having too good a time in college. Gotta pay the piper sooner or later I guess.
+pissed+
 
I'm exploring both options. Right now, it's looking like postbacc is a better choice than masters. I just would hate to do a masters and then have some adcom think I fooled around in a bunch of research classes. I don't know how prevalent postbac was 7 years ago. There may not have been very many of them back then
 
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