biggest misconceptions about private practice.

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panetrain

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1. Private practice surgeons are fast.
2. Private practice patients are all healthy.
3. All trauma in town goes to the level one trauma center.
4. Private practice OR staff go out of their way to help anesthesia get the case started.
5. Private practice hours are cush.
6. Private practice physicians are never late.
7. You would never do this case in private practice.
8. I'll never do a 14 hour finger reattachment in private practice.
9. etc...

This list will ultimately grow as my first year in private practice progresses.
 
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1. Private practice surgeons are fast.
2. Private practice patients are all healthy.
3. All trauma in town goes to the level one trauma center.
4. Private practice OR staff go out of their way to help anesthesia get the case started.
5. Private practice hours are cush.
6. Private practice physicians are never late.
7. You would never do this case in private practice.
8. Partners look out for their own.
9. I'll never do a 14 hour finger reattachment in private practice.
10. etc...

This list will ultimately grow as my first year in private practice progresses.

HAHA - pretty funny. And pretty accurate , except there are some PP surgeons that are SMOKIN fast - and many others that SHOULD be but aren't.

Helpful hint - I NEVER use pavulon in private practice. Ever.
 
11.private practice docs are more respected by patients
12.the er would never use and abuse private practice docs
13.all patients try to pay their bills
14.private practive docs can take off when ever they want and take vacation for long periods of time
15. private practive is easy to find coverage
16.other than surgery/anesthesia/radiology private practice docs make more money
17.quality of life is better in private practice
 
But do you get RESPECT? Do fellow anesthesiologists, surgeons, RNs etc. respect you as an MD or are you viewed as a glorified CRNA?
 
1. Private practice surgeons are fast.
2. Private practice patients are all healthy.
3. All trauma in town goes to the level one trauma center.
4. Private practice OR staff go out of their way to help anesthesia get the case started.
5. Private practice hours are cush.
6. Private practice physicians are never late.
7. You would never do this case in private practice.
8. Partners look out for their own.
9. I'll never do a 14 hour finger reattachment in private practice.
10. etc...

This list will ultimately grow as my first year in private practice progresses.
dude i thought you were doing a pain fellowship??
 
ALL of our surgeons are fast and GOOD. The OR staff bends over backwards to help anesthesia, etc. 90% of cases are on time. Yes, we have tons of acuity. Yes, we work hard. Our partners totally look out for one and other. The working relationships are excellent. And we are good friends. (for a group of 23 that is very impressive, IMHO)

Overall, PP, is great. No complaints. And yes the hospital, RNs, surgeons and patients greatly respect us and thank us for our important role. (I know, this is not what you hear on this board) If you would like to join us, please PM me. Yes, we are hiring. We are always looking for EXCELLENT physicians and people.
 
ALL of our surgeons are fast and GOOD. The OR staff bends over backwards to help anesthesia, etc. 90% of cases are on time. Yes, we have tons of acuity. Yes, we work hard. Our partners totally look out for one and other. The working relationships are excellent. And we are good friends. (for a group of 23 that is very impressive, IMHO)

Overall, PP, is great. No complaints. And yes the hospital, RNs, surgeons and patients greatly respect us and thank us for our important role. (I know, this is not what you hear on this board) If you would like to join us, please PM me. Yes, we are hiring. We are always looking for EXCELLENT physicians and people.

What's the catch????😕
 
Had to pull the eject button on that at the last second.😱 (private reasons). I have entered private practice gas.

From someone who did a pain fellowship, I think you made the right decision. The pain market is weird right now. No one, except shady groups, is hiring (even in places with a huge need). I don't know what is going to happen to this specialty. I really like pain but it looks like I am not even going to be doing it as a profession because the market is so bad. Hopefully, that will change.
 
11.private practice docs are more respected by patients
12.the er would never use and abuse private practice docs
13.all patients try to pay their bills
14.private practive docs can take off when ever they want and take vacation for long periods of time
15. private practive is easy to find coverage
16.other than surgery/anesthesia/radiology private practice docs make more money
17.quality of life is better in private practice

18. You will get to do cases the same way that you grew comfortable doing them in residency, especially when the "local way" isn't as sensible, cost-effective, or fast.

-copro
 
That depends on the group. If the MDs have let the CRNAs gain too much power by being lazy and uninvolved and passive, the MDs will also lose respect at that hospital. This was one of the major things I looked at when picking a private practice group to join.

I can tell you, firsthand, that this isn't necessarily the case (i.e., docs being "lazy and uninvolved and passive"). I have seen this already. The problem is much more complex.

There is a premium on retaining Nurse Anesthetists at the hospital. That's a fact of life. So much so, that people in my group have had the smack-down from higher ups in the group for being too "aggressive" in trying to manage what are otherwise probably picky issues with some of them. And, that smack down has come directly from the hospital admins who have, in so many words, said to the group that everyone has to "play nice". I was warned about this from "Day 1" by certain folks here.

So, you might consider it "passive", but I think the bigger thing is the pressure that comes from the administration a lot of the time who has, for all intents and purposes, the group somewhat by the short hairs in that regard, especially come contract renewal time.

I'm not sure really how I feel about this, but then again when I've worked with CRNAs here I haven't run into too much of an issue (yet) where I feel strongly about something that should be done that hasn't been done. If it comes to that, I'll let you know. Of course, everyone is still feeling each other out at this point. It's a little weird not doing a lot of the procedures, though, and instead watching someone else do (in some cases "mangle" or "butcher") what I until recently always did myself.

-copro
 
The pain fellow who graduated from my program this year has entered private practice gas rather than pain.😕😱. Not a good sign. The field of pain is certainly under attack right now, which has contracted the job market. I'm sure I don't have to tell you this fox. :scared:

From someone who did a pain fellowship, I think you made the right decision. The pain market is weird right now. No one, except shady groups, is hiring (even in places with a huge need). I don't know what is going to happen to this specialty. I really like pain but it looks like I am not even going to be doing it as a profession because the market is so bad. Hopefully, that will change.
 
The pain fellow who graduated from my program this year has entered private practice gas rather than pain.😕😱. Not a good sign. The field of pain is certainly under attack right now, which has contracted the job market. I'm sure I don't have to tell you this fox. :scared:

Yes, it sucks to be an unemployed board certified, fellowship trained anesthesiologist. Never in a million years did I ever think I would have trouble finding a descent job where I could do what I enjoyed after I finished my training and passed my boards. It is very disheartening.
 
Why is there so much pressure to retain CRNAs there? I'm guessing the CRNAs are hospital employees. That dynamic sounds like a nightmare.

I'm not fully sure as to exactly why of anything yet. I haven't been here long enough to understand the full dynamic of what goes on (but am definitely liking the paycheck 😀 ).

From what little I understand, a group of them got together and complained about an associate a few years ago who was fresh out of residency. Long story short, the guy never made partner. I don't know if he left or was asked to leave. But, from the little bit I got was that, basically, it snowballed, in no small part, secondary to the fact that he was considered "hard to work with" by multiple anesthetists.

Yes, they are hospital employees. Yes, they have more power than you think.

-copro
 
pain job market is contracted because of uncertainty of obamacare...the demand is huge, but the supply is being artificially restricted...it's good for the field, actually, to avoid the flooding of the untrained, unqualified pain management physicians.

if you think pain market sucks, wait until you see 80-90% of your anesthesia patients are from medicare or government-run insurance. your reimbursement will be half of what you have right now, and you don't have mixed payer of private insurance to buffer your rate reduction anymore.

put aside CRNA will be fully utilized to replace any physicians they can possibly replace...obama will use anything, to reduce the cost of of health care...physician reimbursement reduction is one of the ultimate goal.

the profession of anesthesiology stands to lose most compared to other specialities, because two reasons, 1) medicare already reimburse the least amount to anesthesiologist compared to private insurance 2) CRNA is ready and eager to replace us for lower rate, and the obama is happy to see that.

think again, if you think anesthesiology will be the same in 3 years if obamacare is pushed through.
 
pain job market is contracted because of uncertainty of obamacare...the demand is huge, but the supply is being artificially restricted...it's good for the field, actually, to avoid the flooding of the untrained, unqualified pain management physicians.

if you think pain market sucks, wait until you see 80-90% of your anesthesia patients are from medicare or government-run insurance. your reimbursement will be half of what you have right now, and you don't have mixed payer of private insurance to buffer your rate reduction anymore.

put aside CRNA will be fully utilized to replace any physicians they can possibly replace...obama will use anything, to reduce the cost of of health care...physician reimbursement reduction is one of the ultimate goal.

the profession of anesthesiology stands to lose most compared to other specialities, because two reasons, 1) medicare already reimburse the least amount to anesthesiologist compared to private insurance 2) CRNA is ready and eager to replace us for lower rate, and the obama is happy to see that.

think again, if you think anesthesiology will be the same in 3 years if obamacare is pushed through.

That is not the only reason for the current market. This market was tightening up before Obama was elected. The dramatic drop in interventional reimbursement due to lack of interventional long term efficacy and rampant abuse has severely diminished the profitability of this field ultimately driving pain docs to double the procedural volume leaving little room for hiring another partner. Furthermore, some common and lucrative procedures are not being reimbursed by insurance private or government. Many carriers are viewing these expensive interventions as optional. 👎
 
That is not the only reason for the current market. This market was tightening up before Obama was elected. The dramatic drop in interventional reimbursement due to lack of interventional long term efficacy and rampant abuse has severely diminished the profitability of this field ultimately driving pain docs to double the procedural volume leaving little room for hiring another partner. Furthermore, some common and lucrative procedures are not being reimbursed by insurance private or government. Many carriers are viewing these expensive interventions as optional. 👎



but it's SOOOOOOH much cooler to blame it on Obama.
 
i would love to see studies detailing real long term efficacy for other things in medicine. cabg for many patients, stents, prostatectomies, fusions, list goes on an on and on. pain just doesn't KILL. i think that if a condition is "life threatening" the government/insurers will pay for SOMETHING to be done (effective or not). that's the problem when bureaucrats and not the patient/physician diad dictate medical practice.

i predict there will be a continued contraction of interventional pain physician work force as fewer and fewer procedures are reimbursed. pain medicine will become like plastic surgery - "elective." for the few physicians who are "good" enough to make it, the future looks fantastic as most compensation will be cash based.

there are A LOT of baby boomers who have A LOT of money and WILL pay out of pocket for minimally invasive procedures that while not necessarily "curing" them from anything will most definitely improve their quality of life. i am rotating in a private practice that does only out-of network + cash (to whatever amount they feel is fair) - many are cash only. no shortage of patients. no shortage of procedures.
 
From someone who did a pain fellowship, I think you made the right decision. The pain market is weird right now. No one, except shady groups, is hiring (even in places with a huge need). I don't know what is going to happen to this specialty. I really like pain but it looks like I am not even going to be doing it as a profession because the market is so bad. Hopefully, that will change.


If the HUGE need exists, then open your OWN practice.

Take a loan out, buy/rent everything you need, and start seeing patients........IF the "huge need" really exists , like you say, and you aren't willing to do that...then your testicles must be REALLY small.

Or....you can get a hospital to subsidize you.....and if the hospital won't, then your perceived "huge need"...is just that....your perception.
 
From someone who did a pain fellowship, I think you made the right decision. The pain market is weird right now. No one, except shady groups, is hiring (even in places with a huge need). I don't know what is going to happen to this specialty. I really like pain but it looks like I am not even going to be doing it as a profession because the market is so bad. Hopefully, that will change.



........
 
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Yes, it sucks to be an unemployed board certified, fellowship trained anesthesiologist. Never in a million years did I ever think I would have trouble finding a descent job where I could do what I enjoyed after I finished my training and passed my boards. It is very disheartening.



Your prospective is interesting because most would say that the anesthesia market is tightening faster than pain. I just hired a new doc and he had at least 6 offers and categorized 3 of them as good offers. My leading competitor has also hired 2 other docs in the past 6 months. Maybe pain is contracted in your particular area but pain as a whole is not. In fact it is becoming much harder to get fellowship slots as compared to five years ago. Are you in a very competitive area or were you very selective about where you wanted to go? I just can see that a quality applicant should have trouble finding a job.
 
If the HUGE need exists, then open your OWN practice.

Take a loan out, buy/rent everything you need, and start seeing patients........IF the "huge need" really exists , like you say, and you aren't willing to do that...then your testicles must be REALLY small.

Or....you can get a hospital to subsidize you.....and if the hospital won't, then your perceived "huge need"...is just that....your perception.


Even though Mil is abrasive in his tone, I have to admit that he is right. I opened a practice from scratch and I am loving every minute of it. Hospital was glad to subsidize for one year. This is a no brainer as you would be doing cases in their center. Many docs feel inadequate about running their own business because we are not taught this in training. Opening your own practice is definitely doable. Cut the shackles and become free.....
 
Panetrain, surprise surprise. So the work got to be too much and the funds started to dwindle in pain, so then you ran.

And less that 6 month into PP and you have it all figured out? Lets talk in 6 yrs. Your just in your first gig. That translates to clueless.

And Mil called you out on the "Huge need". How do you know? Or are you talking big like usual.

BTW, we just hired a pain fellowship trained person. And we don't have a pain practice and never want one.
 
That depends on the group. If the MDs have let the CRNAs gain too much power by being lazy and uninvolved and passive, the MDs will also lose respect at that hospital. This was one of the major things I looked at when picking a private practice group to join.

Dream, very smart move. I took a temporary job after residency where the regular anesthesiologist let the crnas basically do whatever they wanted, good or bad, and it left me powerless. I will always look for groups like you found. Congratulations.
 
Are you telling me it took you six years to figure out what I figured out in one month? WOW:wow::wow::wow:WOW!!! That translates to your an idiot!


Panetrain, surprise surprise. So the work got to be too much and the funds started to dwindle in pain, so then you ran.

And less that 6 month into PP and you have it all figured out? Lets talk in 6 yrs. Your just in your first gig. That translates to clueless.

And Mil called you out on the "Huge need". How do you know? Or are you talking big like usual.

BTW, we just hired a pain fellowship trained person. And we don't have a pain practice and never want one.
 
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If the HUGE need exists, then open your OWN practice.

Take a loan out, buy/rent everything you need, and start seeing patients........IF the "huge need" really exists , like you say, and you aren't willing to do that...then your testicles must be REALLY small.

Or....you can get a hospital to subsidize you.....and if the hospital won't, then your perceived "huge need"...is just that....your perception.


Seriously dude, why do you have to be such a jerk whenever you post something? You make good points and have alot of experience but the way you deliver it is really rude. It could be that the "serious need" is my perception; however, there are alot of smaller hospitals that don't want to subsidize a new pain doc because of the current economic situation. I have posed this question to 4 small community hospitals and it just kind of fizzled out. Granted 4 is not alot but it is something. I was mainly looking at anesthesia practices that already have a pain doc but were not looking to hire another because of the uncertain economic and healthcare climate. Maybe they just didn't want to hire me but that is what I have been told multiple times.

I would love to start my own practice but I honestly am not sure how to go about doing it. I have not been practicing for 10 years. I am just out of fellowship so it is kind of a daunting endeavor. Rather than making snide comments why don't you post some resources or ideas on how to go about doing this since you have been in the business for quite some time.
 
Even though Mil is abrasive in his tone, I have to admit that he is right. I opened a practice from scratch and I am loving every minute of it. Hospital was glad to subsidize for one year. This is a no brainer as you would be doing cases in their center. Many docs feel inadequate about running their own business because we are not taught this in training. Opening your own practice is definitely doable. Cut the shackles and become free.....

Are there any resources that you used to help you do this or did you just approach the hospitals with your expertise?
 
If we had been face to face...you wouldn't have thought I was being a jerk...you probably would have thought it was funny....

but anyways...fair enough.

If the need really exists...and you can get primary care docs to back you with referrals.....get a loan from bank....

It IS OVERWHELMING....you may go bankrupt....but that's how owner's become owner's of businesses.

You need to see a lawyer....you will need an accountant....you will need people who will refer patients to you....

and at the end of the day....you will need GUTS and BALLS.

Seriously dude, why do you have to be such a jerk whenever you post something? You make good points and have alot of experience but the way you deliver it is really rude. It could be that the "serious need" is my perception; however, there are alot of smaller hospitals that don't want to subsidize a new pain doc because of the current economic situation. I have posed this question to 4 small community hospitals and it just kind of fizzled out. Granted 4 is not alot but it is something. I was mainly looking at anesthesia practices that already have a pain doc but were not looking to hire another because of the uncertain economic and healthcare climate. Maybe they just didn't want to hire me but that is what I have been told multiple times.

I would love to start my own practice but I honestly am not sure how to go about doing it. I have not been practicing for 10 years. I am just out of fellowship so it is kind of a daunting endeavor. Rather than making snide comments why don't you post some resources or ideas on how to go about doing this since you have been in the business for quite some time.
 
If we had been face to face...you wouldn't have thought I was being a jerk...you probably would have thought it was funny....

but anyways...fair enough.

If the need really exists...and you can get primary care docs to back you with referrals.....get a loan from bank....

It IS OVERWHELMING....you may go bankrupt....but that's how owner's become owner's of businesses.

You need to see a lawyer....you will need an accountant....you will need people who will refer patients to you....

and at the end of the day....you will need GUTS and BALLS.

YOu will also need a practice/business manager....and perhaps billing company to project your revenue flow based on the referral pattern, procedures you will do, and the payor mix.

Once you have a financial plan in place (and it takes some capital to formulate this plan)...you go to your investors (bank, hospital, etc.) with your cap in hand and ask for the capital to get your dreams off the ground.

Your business MAY go under, but that's why you need a lawyer to protect your salary in a way that YOU don't go under.

It TAKES BALLS...but the rewards is beyond just MONEY...it's that YOU built something.
 
YOu will also need a practice/business manager....and perhaps billing company to project your revenue flow based on the referral pattern, procedures you will do, and the payor mix.

Once you have a financial plan in place (and it takes some capital to formulate this plan)...you go to your investors (bank, hospital, etc.) with your cap in hand and ask for the capital to get your dreams off the ground.

Your business MAY go under, but that's why you need a lawyer to protect your salary in a way that YOU don't go under.

It TAKES BALLS...but the rewards is beyond just MONEY...it's that YOU built something.
militarymd doesnt own a practice. he works at for the hospital system. Dont let him make you believe he somehow started a practice from scratch because he sure did not.
 
militarymd doesnt own a practice. he works at for the hospital system. Dont let him make you believe he somehow started a practice from scratch because he sure did not.

Are you sure? And, I don't ever think he claimed to have "started a practice from scratch".

Anyway, I know who he is and where he works. I will check into it.

(Don't worry, MilMD. I wouldn't "out" you here.)

-copro
 
I will check into it.

Okay... I got it... and, I quote...

"The physicians in our anesthesia department are not employees of ********, but are an independent group (******* Anesthesia of *******, LLC). Charges for services rendered will be billed separately from the hospital."

maceo, you are wrong.

-copro
 
militarymd doesnt own a practice. he works at for the hospital system. Dont let him make you believe he somehow started a practice from scratch because he sure did not.


My corporation contracts with my hospital to provide anesthesia services.

We don't own hard assets like a pain doc would...no need for fluoro,etc.

But we have our accounts, lawyers, practice managers, financial guys, healthcare plan , etc....

My start up cost was just waiting for AR to ramp up while paying off old debt to the corporation we replaced.....so my out of pocket was NO income for 6 months after I separated from the Navy.

Now, if you set up your loan right...you can pay yourself a salary from day one.....and have it set up in a way that once paid to you...it's yours...so if your corporation goes belly up...you're protected....lawyers are worth their weight in some kind of precious metal here.

On the other hand, I didn't do all this myself....I walked into a situation where I had an old dude...who I continue to work with...who taught me these things.

This is how business is started....or you could be just another employee like maceo and be bitter about it.
 
Furthermore, his group is listed here as a "successful" medical group with regards to their accounts receivable and collections meaning they bill "greater than the median for ASA units per FTE physician".

There aren't many anesthesia groups listed there, and this MGMA group looks at data from about 1/3rd of all practicing physicians in the U.S. combined (i.e., all physicians).

In other words, maceo, this guy MilMD has his **** together and is, most definitely, not talking out of his ass.

👍

-copro
 
Are there any resources that you used to help you do this or did you just approach the hospitals with your expertise?


Suggestions:

1) Contact your state medical society. They may be able to offer you practice management services. If not, I would contact a practice management service if you are interested in going it alone.

2) As others have said, get good consultants. Lawyer and accountant are a must.

3) Create a proforma and get a line of credit from your local bank. Most physicians can get credit rather easily if you have a good plan.

4) Talk to some small community hospitals. They are more likely to see that an agreement would be mutually beneficial.

5) Use downtime to extensively market face to face with referral sources.

6) Purchase "Starting a Medical Practice" put out by the AMA. This is a very good read and give you a good timeline for all of the things that you will need to do to get started.


If you make it through all of this and get to the other side, it can be quite rewarding...
 
Furthermore, his group is listed here as a "successful" medical group with regards to their accounts receivable and collections meaning they bill "greater than the median for ASA units per FTE physician".

There aren't many anesthesia groups listed there, and this MGMA group looks at data from about 1/3rd of all practicing physicians in the U.S. combined (i.e., all physicians).

In other words, maceo, this guy MilMD has his **** together and is, most definitely, not talking out of his ass.

👍

-copro


Military is obviously a good businessman. His attitude and manners need work. However, setting up a pain practice from scratch is far different from what he has done.
 
Military is obviously a good businessman. His attitude and manners need work. However, setting up a pain practice from scratch is far different from what he has done.

I thought I said that.
 
militarymd doesnt own a practice. he works at for the hospital system. .

True, but his comments pretty much echo those of someone (forget his name) who posts on teh plastic surgery board about starting his own practice fresh out of residency. Very good series of very detailed posts - interesting read.

Edit ... employment information above noted. Still true that though Mil didn't start a typical practice, his advice is good.
 
I know someone who apparently trained with panetrain. Word was that he hated anesthesia and only wanted to do pain. He did the research track in pain, then secured a top tier fellowhip. Backed out cause the $$ wasn't there.

Heard he was all about the benjamins. This is of course heresay.

Otherwise, heard he was a nice guy and good resident.
 
I know someone who apparently trained with panetrain. Word was that he hated anesthesia and only wanted to do pain. He did the research track in pain, then secured a top tier fellowhip. Backed out cause the $$ wasn't there.

Heard he was all about the benjamins. This is of course heresay.

Otherwise, heard he was a nice guy and good resident.

Don't know where this here-say came from, but the last line is 100% true.👍
 
He was coming here to UW for a pain fellowship (he posted this in public previously so I am not giving away anything here) and fwiw the pain folks here thought he was a good dude. I was bummed when I found out he decided to not come here. Of course that is all hearsay too.

- pod
 
I know someone who apparently trained with panetrain. Word was that he hated anesthesia and only wanted to do pain. He did the research track in pain, then secured a top tier fellowhip. Backed out cause the $$ wasn't there.

Heard he was all about the benjamins. This is of course heresay.

Otherwise, heard he was a nice guy and good resident.
Don't know where this here-say came from, but the last line is 100% true.👍

Dudes, the word is "hearsay".

-copro
 
Thanks Copro. Didn't realize you were a spelling nazi, but I guess since you are always on here you have to put your 2cents somewhere. Otherwise, how else would you keep up your growing post count?
 
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This statement is simply fabricated . I don't hate anesthesia, but I don't exactly jerk off to the latest edition of the journal Anesthesiology either.

I know someone who apparently trained with panetrain. Word was that he hated anesthesia and only wanted to do pain. He did the research track in pain, then secured a top tier fellowhip. Backed out cause the $$ wasn't there.

Heard he was all about the benjamins. This is of course heresay.

Otherwise, heard he was a nice guy and good resident.
 
Furthermore, his group is listed here as a "successful" medical group with regards to their accounts receivable and collections meaning they bill "greater than the median for ASA units per FTE physician".

There aren't many anesthesia groups listed there, and this MGMA group looks at data from about 1/3rd of all practicing physicians in the U.S. combined (i.e., all physicians).

In other words, maceo, this guy MilMD has his **** together and is, most definitely, not talking out of his ass.

👍

-copro

How does one separate this from just working more per FTE? Even if their billing efficiency is average, if they do many more cases than the median, it seems they are likely to bill more than the median. What do you think?
 
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