Hackensack University-Envision or Private Practice

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also some new grads used to the work from residency. so they think its not that bad bc they are comparing to residency
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anbuitachi said:
also some new grads used to the work from residency. so they think its not that bad bc they are comparing to residency
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Well for the work you do as a resident you should be paid handsomely as an attending, problem with this group it seems they forgot to add the pay part and would rather spend more resources churning
 
2Fast2Des said:
Well for the work you do as a resident you should be paid handsomely as an attending, problem with this group it seems they forgot to add the pay part and would rather spend more resources churning
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I agree. But it's crazy how many residents don't know their worth. I still remember many of my ca3 colleagues say the pay is a lot of money and I'm thinking it's below market! (Different hospital)
 
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anbuitachi said:
I agree. But it's crazy how many residents don't know their worth. I still remember many of my ca3 colleagues say the pay is a lot of money and I'm thinking it's below market! (Different hospital)
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Which is why listening to residents talk about their offers is like listening to a child that found a 50 dollar bill in the street. They don’t know what a lot of money is and they are totally clueless. So I don’t even bother with them. They seem to like the downplay the amount of supervision
 
Fpg1245 said:
Which is why listening to residents talk about their offers is like listening to a child that found a 50 dollar bill in the street. They don’t know what a lot of money is and they are totally clueless. So I don’t even bother with them. They seem to like the downplay the amount of supervision
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explains who may be working for these firms
 
anbuitachi said:
explains who may be working for these firms
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The current crop already knows everything before they know anything, it's futile to even try to teach them. All this wokeness and the culture of the current generation makes them impossible to teach without offending something, that is if they even are receptive to teaching
 
anbuitachi said:
I agree. But it's crazy how many residents don't know their worth. I still remember many of my ca3 colleagues say the pay is a lot of money and I'm thinking it's below market! (Different hospital)
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I guess the counter to this is the number of "experienced" attendings, and by that I mean 2-3 years out, who take the best attribute of every job offer they've seen and try to game you. Yes, "I want seven figures for 35 hours a week, and call where I'm never called in, and 54 weeks of vacation plus great benefits -this is what other places are offering me. Also I want the ability to call out sick the morning of, time for the hospital's diversity training to be paid out to me by the practice, and priority parking in the hospital lot next to the administrators."
 
2Fast2Des said:
The current crop already knows everything before they know anything, it's futile to even try to teach them. All this wokeness and the culture of the current generation makes them impossible to teach without offending something, that is if they even are receptive to teaching
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?? What does this have to do with the Hackensack job. That place is a dumpster fire, we can all agree on that. If you take a full time job there you will make > 600, AND be working 80 hours/week. The non call positions have laughably low compensation (think 150/hr, for evening/night work it goes to 200). That’s simply not competitive it the current market.
 
dannyboy1 said:
?? What does this have to do with the Hackensack job. That place is a dumpster fire, we can all agree on that. If you take a full time job there you will make > 600, AND be working 80 hours/week. The non call positions have laughably low compensation (think 150/hr, for evening/night work it goes to 200). That’s simply not competitive it the current market.
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Got a little carried away lol. Basically that you can try to teach residents about what to look for in a job and all the nuances yet they will choose the worst job anyway. I tried to teach a resident a little bit about anesthesia billing, W2 vs 1099, she didn't care, she was happy about her 250 to 300k 1099 job she signed a contract for in Las Vegas because it paid more than her residency salary. I tried to describe to her how that's a terrible offer but she didn't want to hear it.
 
2Fast2Des said:
Got a little carried away lol. Basically that you can try to teach residents about what to look for in a job and all the nuances yet they will choose the worst job anyway. I tried to teach a resident a little bit about anesthesia billing, W2 vs 1099, she didn't care, she was happy about her 250 to 300k 1099 job she signed a contract for in Las Vegas because it paid more than her residency salary. I tried to describe to her how that's a terrible offer but she didn't want to hear it.
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$250-300k 1099? for how much work? when was this. if this was for ft position within the last decade, then she’s an idiot and you can’t extrapolate what any resident will do based on this.
 
2Fast2Des said:
Got a little carried away lol. Basically that you can try to teach residents about what to look for in a job and all the nuances yet they will choose the worst job anyway. I tried to teach a resident a little bit about anesthesia billing, W2 vs 1099, she didn't care, she was happy about her 250 to 300k 1099 job she signed a contract for in Las Vegas because it paid more than her residency salary. I tried to describe to her how that's a terrible offer but she didn't want to hear it.
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Lashler9054 said:
$250-300k 1099? for how much work? when was this. if this was for ft position within the last decade, then she’s an idiot and you can’t extrapolate what any resident will do based on this.
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Not a gender war or anything but i have noticed in my practice, the female anesthesiologists are very content with their salary. Even in residency the ones who said their 300k is amazing are all women. also we have done heavy negotiating in the past 3 years here w C suite, zero female anesthesiologists in my department wanted to be a part of it. at the same time though, all the female anesthesiologists here are married to someone with similar or higher income... while the men here are married to someone with way less income....

obviously there are many people who are different. but from my observation, on average, men care more about income than women. and society also puts more pressure on men to produce financially. i make 4x what my wife makes.. and she still complains i make too little!
 
anbuitachi said:
Not a gender war or anything but i have noticed in my practice, the female anesthesiologists are very content with their salary. Even in residency the ones who said their 300k is amazing are all women. also we have done heavy negotiating in the past 3 years here w C suite, zero female anesthesiologists in my department wanted to be a part of it. at the same time though, all the female anesthesiologists here are married to someone with similar or higher income... while the men here are married to someone with way less income....

obviously there are many people who are different. but from my observation, on average, men care more about income than women. and society also puts more pressure on men to produce financially. i make 4x what my wife makes.. and she still complains i make too little!
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With more women in medicine the problem is two fold. One they will likely work for less but don’t want to work as hard and many have family obligations. Most of them usually end up becoming trophy wives of some male in the criminal finance enterprise or some PP Orthopod. I’ve noticed that education while valued in women is more of a feather in the cap among the upper class than the need for work.
 
There are some practices that just cope with high turnover and in turn the hospital it covers copes with high turnover until someone (surgeons/nurses) complains about the instability, but I think that becomes less likely with larger institutions/practices. I feel like these places have the vibes of residency programs and people are just ok seeing new faces every year. I think we can all agree that the opposite (low turnover) probably yields better stability, better work environment, and probably better patient outcomes as people are more collegial and work together.

I think there's some truth in that some of these types of practices often get new grads because residents are used to working wild hours only now they're getting paid 5x the amount to do it. When I was a CA3, the thought of a 300k salary, even in a large east coast city, made me feel like I was "movin' on up". Now that I've been working for a while, know what hard work looks like or even doesn't look like, and what kind of money that SHOULD involve, yes, now it's hard to even get a phone conversation with me for certain salaries unless there is a special circumstance involved with it. We're all pretty smart. We can take a unit value, multiply it by a number of hours and by a number of weeks and get a close estimate of what a yearly salary would be. I think in addition to teaching anesthesia, those of us who choose to go from private to academic can be a strong resource to residents teaching the business side of private practice.
 
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Fpg1245 said:
With more women in medicine the problem is two fold. One they will likely work for less but don’t want to work as hard and many have family obligations. Most of them usually end up becoming trophy wives of some male in the criminal finance enterprise or some PP Orthopod. I’ve noticed that education while valued in women is more of a feather in the cap among the upper class than the need for work.
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Um…no. Some of my friends here know I wasn’t about to let this one go…( where are my fellow ladies-that-bank?)
I work harder than many of my male colleagues and make 3x what my husband does. I DO have one of the job$ that people rave about here on sdn and will send admin my w2 to prove it…
There are lots of hard working women in medicine
 
amyl said:
Um…no. Some of my friends here know I wasn’t about to let this one go…( where are my fellow ladies-that-bank?)
I work harder than many of my male colleagues and make 3x what my husband does. I DO have one of the job$ that people rave about here on sdn and will send admin my w2 to prove it…
There are lots of hard working women in medicine
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That’s great. Good for you. Make it while you can. I’m sure there are but honestly from residency and being out in the workforce. Life just gets in the way and when it does the work hours plummet.
 
Just adding another anecdote to the growing pile. Close friend took a job there out of residency a few years back. Bragging to me when he took the job about all the glowing things they promised. He bailed after less than 2 years, said it was a miserable place to work. Don't really have any details since I didn't ask him to elaborate. I had a feeling the job was a lie before he started there.
 
Twiggidy said:
why not a cush job where you sit your own cases? even better if they're cush cases
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Well, you're in the minority here in FL. Most docs won't sit their own cases...only 'supervise'. Kinda kills our argument
 
PainInTheAnes said:

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Here’s short article on the topic I found, not sure how rigorous it is. It seems like the hour drop off occurs mainly after women physicians have children, before that it’s roughly the same. This does line up with what I’ve seen in practice

“Nearly 5000 couples in which both partners were physicians or surgeons completed questionnaires about hours worked. Among respondents without children, men worked an average of 57 hours and women worked 52 hours weekly. Compared to men without children, men with children worked similar numbers of hours weekly. However, compared to women without children, women with children worked significantly fewer hours weekly — roughly 40–43 hours, depending on the age of their youngest child.”
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ONLY 43 hours! So they've slowed down to full time.

But in truth, I work with very few men who are less than full time. I work with a few women who work as much as or more than many of the men. But I work with a good amount of women who work part time or even PRN. Good for them! I say do whatever you need for your family circumstance.
 
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DonFL said:
Well, you're in the minority here in FL. Most docs won't sit their own cases...only 'supervise'. Kinda kills our argument
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Same question as @JiPo ......"wont" or "aren't allowed" because if it's the former then that's a problem
 
Twiggidy said:
Same question as @JiPo ......"wont" or "aren't allowed" because if it's the former then that's a problem
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If my experience in the south is any indication, it began with 'aren't allowed' (probably a couple decades ago) and now has become 'won't' for a majority of docs who aren't new grads. There's too many who think sitting the stool is beneath them.
 
vector2 said:
If my experience in the south is any indication, it began with 'aren't allowed' (probably a couple decades ago) and now has become 'won't' for a majority of docs who aren't new grads. There's too many who think sitting the stool is beneath them.
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This field, and medicine in general, has quite an interesting future
 
vector2 said:
If my experience in the south is any indication, it began with 'aren't allowed' (probably a couple decades ago) and now has become 'won't' for a majority of docs who aren't new grads. There's too many who think sitting the stool is beneath them.
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Or they lost some skills and are afraid to admit it.
 
MSlos said:
Yes. There are plenty hospitals/groups hiring nearby with much more reasonable hours and higher pay. Some of the people I knew from the past who worked there went to hospitals in NYC.
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There really aren't ..... and no one is making 600k as @anes11 stated.... the rest of north jersey groups close by also are very busy (ie Valley, Englewood, HN is having other issues).... the are is oversaturated and is dominated by a singular hospital system with maybe 2-3 competing smaller hospitals who are trying to make up in quantity as well... expect to work hard for your money.
 
lotsapain said:
There really aren't ..... and no one is making 600k as @anes11 stated.... the rest of north jersey groups close by also are very busy (ie Valley, Englewood, HN is having other issues).... the are is oversaturated and is dominated by a singular hospital system with maybe 2-3 competing smaller hospitals who are trying to make up in quantity as well... expect to work hard for your money.
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I thought Valley is a good place? They seemed to have a very strong anesthesia department with leadership involved in many facets of the hospital, and pretty decent call schedule since they have so many docs
 
2Fast2Des said:
I thought Valley is a good place? They seemed to have a very strong anesthesia department with leadership involved in many facets of the hospital, and pretty decent call schedule since they have so many docs
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They still post quiet heavily on gaswork.... it is an all doc practice as far their executive presence can't comment have not heard much of that ... I will take your word. Not that many discussions on that specific practice but again North Jersey are busy practices, I would venture to say Hackensack is probably a better hospital overall ... in terms of docs (ie cardiology, etc etc) and ED... I would love to hear some more feedback on Valley from someone who worked there..
 
lotsapain said:
They still post quiet heavily on gaswork.... it is an all doc practice as far their executive presence can't comment have not heard much of that ... I will take your word. Not that many discussions on that specific practice but again North Jersey are busy practices, I would venture to say Hackensack is probably a better hospital overall ... in terms of docs (ie cardiology, etc etc) and ED... I would love to hear some more feedback on Valley from someone who worked there..
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From what I know they are not offering any partnership opportunities, only employee/associate position. I think the partners are doing very well and don't want to dilute their earnings. Valley is a community hospital, especially in a very wealthy area so I'm sure they do well with the insured population that comes there.
 
2Fast2Des said:
From what I know they are not offering any partnership opportunities, only employee/associate position. I think the partners are doing very well and don't want to dilute their earnings. Valley is a community hospital, especially in a very wealthy area so I'm sure they do well with the insured population that comes there.
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Yes they have not offered partnership for quite some time (close to when Hackensack stopped). Which is truly an odd concept to me.... as you have two separate populations the "have's" and the "have nots" but I am just trying to understand if that is the case, are the people happier at valley regardless of the fact that they are making less money ... are partners taking more call etc.? personally I would think everyone should make the same just not have voting rights. how do you justify salary differences? wouldn't that be discriminations ? ageism etc?
 
lotsapain said:
Yes they have not offered partnership for quite some time (close to when Hackensack stopped). Which is truly an odd concept to me.... as you have two separate populations the "have's" and the "have nots" but I am just trying to understand if that is the case, are the people happier at valley regardless of the fact that they are making less money ... are partners taking more call etc.? personally I would think everyone should make the same just not have voting rights. how do you justify salary differences? wouldn't that be discriminations ? ageism etc?
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I'm not sure into those specifics, but I know they have a position that is mommy track friendly ish, like 4 days a week average to work, so can lend to people who are amenable to that. I'm sure the pay is less than a full time call person, wonder if anyone can pipe in if they are familiar with this group. One of the lone private groups left in the NJ area
 
murdoc9 said:
Anyone know anything good or bad about this mountainside medical center job in Montclair? I know it's Envision... but anything beyond that?

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Asking for a friend. Thanks
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I think it’s fine. One of my friend is there…. They don’t complain much about the place. (Can’t believe how low the bar is these days with some of these groups….)

If you have specific questions, I can ask
 
murdoc9 said:
Anyone know anything good or bad about this mountainside medical center job in Montclair? I know it's Envision... but anything beyond that?

GasWork.com - Reference #337950

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www.gaswork.com www.gaswork.com
Asking for a friend. Thanks
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wonder if there will be changes with KKR's bankruptcy filing
 
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