Bills player with cardiac arrest. Commotio?

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Why complicate the diagnosis by speculating vaccine involvement?
Probably because you (generic you, not you @greatnt249 ) also believe Hillary Clinton is murdering babies in the basement of a pizza parlor in Arlington, VA.

Otherwise, there's no reason to even mention it.

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Why complicate the diagnosis by speculating vaccine involvement? You don't need to have myocarditis for commotio cordis to happen. The replays all show a direct chest wall impact and within seconds, he collapsed. The impact doesn't have to be hard enough to cause direct cardiac injury, just hard enough to deliver a sufficient amount of energy to the heart within a very narrow window of time. Also contrary to popular belief, people don't necessarily lose consciousness the second the heart goes into VT/VF; it can take a few seconds for cerebral perfusion to drop from the loss of cardiac output.

As to whether there's another underlying issue such as a channelopathy or HCM, it's pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things at this point in his care. It will be looked into, but I as I see it now, commotio is the simplest explanation for everything we witnessed.

But think about all the 5g signal in the stadium. That's what the media isn't telling you about.
 
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Press conference update (using their language):

He initially had a pulse when the athletic trainers arrived on the field, lost it, and "bystander CPR" began. This was followed by use of the AED and ROSC. Oxygenation was optimized and he was then intubated in the ambulance. (This probably explains the delay of the ambulance leaving the stadium.)

UC "targeted temperature management protocol" was used. Not clear if that is hypothermia or normothermia, although I would bet the latter. Proning for ARDS. Denied reports of a jaw injury and no evidence of neuro injury on imaging.

Correctly refused the questions from the network physicians about EF, echo results, etc.
 
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Watching the news screen at the gym, it said he was ‘neurologically intact’
 
Watching the news screen at the gym, it said he was ‘neurologically intact’
Correct. Apparently he was using (in their words) "low tech pen, paper, and clipboard" to write questions.

However, they did clarify for the reporters that "neurologically intact" was not synonymous with no possible neuro deficits.

But writing appropriate questions (for an NFL player) is obviously a very good sign; particularly with the clarification that there was minimal time between loss of pulse and the beginning of (in the physician's words) "high quality CPR."
 
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Yes when they have major electrolyte abnormalities. Maybe his mag was 0.5 or K was 2. We may not ever know the full details.

Clarification: People usually progress from VT to VF.

Regarding electrolyte abnormalities, I've seen several cases (primary and transfers) that get ROSC and are discharged without a defibrillator because EP says it was all electrolyte related (I'm talking potassium and mag levels as cited above).

I can see that if they don't have a cardiomyopathy. I doubt they are discharging them with an EF of 15% though without some sort of lifevest or defibrillator though.
 
Press conference update (using their language):

He initially had a pulse when the athletic trainers arrived on the field, lost it, and "bystander CPR" began. This was followed by use of the AED and ROSC. Oxygenation was optimized and he was then intubated in the ambulance. (This probably explains the delay of the ambulance leaving the stadium.)

UC "targeted temperature management protocol" was used. Not clear if that is hypothermia or normothermia, although I would bet the latter. Proning for ARDS. Denied reports of a jaw injury and no evidence of neuro injury on imaging.

Correctly refused the questions from the network physicians about EF, echo results, etc.
What does “correctly refuses the questions from the network physicians about EF, etc” mean?
 
What does “correctly refuses the questions from the network physicians about EF, etc” mean?
The physicians who are also reporters from CNN, NBC, etc generally asked for specific numbers, vent settings, imaging results, etc.

The UC physicians, correctly in my opinion, said that was a bit too specific and answering would have crossed the line for medical privacy.
 
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The physicians who are also reporters from CNN, NBC, etc generally asked for specific numbers, vent settings, imaging results, etc.

The UC physicians, correctly in my opinion, said that was a bit too specific and answering would have crossed the line for medical privacy.
One of them is the dude I used to be in a fantasy league with!

The caps are dope.

 
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But how is a tackle localized to cause commotio cordis like being hit by a baseball?

I think you're letting the visual get in the way of what needs to happen to cause commotio cordis. It wasn't "just a tackle"; he first took a direct shoulder to the precordial area when he started to make the tackle, and then in the process of making the tackle, landed with his chest directly on top of the ball carrier's helmet while the ball carrier was on the ground. Any one of those impacts could have delivered enough energy to the precordium to set off the chain of events; it doesn't have to be a fastball or visually dramatic for it to happen.
 
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The physicians who are also reporters from CNN, NBC, etc generally asked for specific numbers, vent settings, imaging results, etc.

The UC physicians, correctly in my opinion, said that was a bit too specific and answering would have crossed the line for medical privacy.
Isn’t even saying that they have him under their care a violation of HIPPA?
 
Isn’t even saying that they have him under their care a violation of HIPPA?
Not if he gave permission. I wouldn’t be surprised if that was a standard provision in an NFL contract.
 
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Those are pretty dope hats. That’s like what my trauma attending (ah, back in the day…) would demand instead of a bouffant when opening central line kits. “You need the surgeon hat!”

Same trauma attending actually sat on a similar press conference panel after a mass shooting several years ago, and watching that the next morning was surreal. (Just seeing people you know at these things is surreal, actually.)

(And what the heck was CNN or NBC going to do with said vent settings?? I mean, come on.)
 
But how is a tackle localized to cause commotio cordis like being hit by a baseball?

You've never taken a tackle, I'll bet. You get hit; just in the right spot, just at the right time. Boom.
 
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You've never taken a tackle, I'll bet. You get hit; just in the right spot, just at the right time. Boom.
Not to mention you have the edge of the opponents shoulder pads,elbows, or in this case the football was in between the two players.
 
Not to mention you have the edge of the opponents shoulder pads,elbows, or in this case the football was in between the two players.

This. This is what people miss.
And bony prominences under those pads.
Believe me, you catch an elbow or knee juuust right and it ends up being VERY focused.

Ask any man with the characteristic scar in the eyebrow. If you know, you know.
 
Ultimately I feel that what we're trying to do is make sense of what we all thought was unthinkable; that a young, healthy, fit man suffered a cardiac arrest in the middle of a widely-televised football game. And, in the moment, we, as physicians, are all trying to come up with a differential for why or how the unthinkable could possibly happen...because that's what we do. And here is where I feel Occam's razor is most pertinent; what's the "most likely" explanation for what occurred in the absence of available background information, which, honestly, is what you all deal with in emergency medicine (ie undifferentiated sick patients) on a daily basis? You don't have to know whether he had HCM, or long QT syndrome, or Brugada syndrome, to know that the man suffered a cardiac arrest. We know based on the available information that he required CPR and defibrillation in the field. On review of the video, he took at least one, if not more blows to the chest prior to him collapsing on the field. To me, though it is an exceedingly rare diagnosis, commotio cordis would fit the bill as to why what happened...happened. You don't need a channelopathy, HCM, long QT, or (can't believe I need to mention this but apparently "speculation" is already out there), "myocardial inflammation" for something like this to occur or make it "more likely" to occur. All you need are the appropriate set of circumstances (energy delivered to precordium at exceedingly poor timing of cardiac cycle) for commotio cordis to occur.
 
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Those are pretty dope hats. That’s like what my trauma attending (ah, back in the day…) would demand instead of a bouffant when opening central line kits. “You need the surgeon hat!”

Same trauma attending actually sat on a similar press conference panel after a mass shooting several years ago, and watching that the next morning was surreal. (Just seeing people you know at these things is surreal, actually.)

(And what the heck was CNN or NBC going to do with said vent settings?? I mean, come on.)
Probably what most of us on this forum do with vent settings...nothing ;)
 
You've never taken a tackle, I'll bet. You get hit; just in the right spot, just at the right time. Boom.
I keep seeing people describing this tackle of an NFL running back as "minor trauma" and I'm like, "have you ever even tackled a high school running back?"
 
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Reportedly he's asking if they won the game...in my expert opinion that's a good prognostic indicator.
 
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Hot take: Hamlin was sick w "unspecified illness" at the end of November, aka covid. Residual myocardial inflammation from covid left the heart susceptible to arrythmias, and an otherwise-innocuous hit stopped his heart.

The last incident of this kind was in 1971, I can't help but feel like the ongoing pandemic played a role. Thoughts?
 
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I mean if we put aside the whole "vaccines good vs vaccines bad" controversy for the time being, the probability that this particular freak event was a result of vaccine mediated subclinical myocarditis causing malignant arrhythmia on exertion is probably at least as likely as any other potential rarity such as commotio cordis or HOCM not seen on echo. The truth of the matter is that regardless of how uncommon MRNA vaccine related myocarditis may be, it is still orders of magnitude more common than commotio cordis from a football tackle.

The documented rate of myocarditis in young men receiving the moderna vaccine is 23/100,000 doses. This number is in all likelihood much greater if you account for cases which are subclinical and never diagnosed. So while using this event as an argument against vaccination may be wrongheaded, speculating that the vaccine may have caused it is not, in all objective reality, any dumber than bringing up other rare etiologies. Unfortunately the discourse over the vaccines have become so toxic that neither side is willing to think about the issue critically.

There should be mandatory courses in logic in medical training…
 
Hot take: Hamlin was sick w "unspecified illness" at the end of November, aka covid. Residual myocardial inflammation from covid left the heart susceptible to arrythmias, and an otherwise-innocuous hit stopped his heart.

The last incident of this kind was in 1971, I can't help but feel like the ongoing pandemic played a role. Thoughts?

It wasn't an "innocuous hit." You don't need an underlying cardiac pathology for something like this to happen.
 
It wasn't an "innocuous hit." You don't need an underlying cardiac pathology for something like this to happen.
Certainly wasn’t an unusually hard hit, he bounced up immediately afterwards. Theres gotta be 100,000 of these types of collisions each season. And yet, we never see a player arresting as a result…

Covid affects the heart, we know that. It’s not a stretch to think it could have played a role here.
 
Certainly wasn’t an unusually hard hit, he bounced up immediately afterwards. Theres gotta be 100,000 of these types of collisions each season. And yet, we never see a player arresting as a result…

Covid affects the heart, we know that. It’s not a stretch to think it could have played a role here.
Faulty logic.

The odds of winning Power Ball or Mega Millions are hundreds of millions to one, but someone eventually wins.

Incredibly rare events eventually happen.
 
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Certainly wasn’t an unusually hard hit, he bounced up immediately afterwards. Theres gotta be 100,000 of these types of collisions each season. And yet, we never see a player arresting as a result…

Covid affects the heart, we know that. It’s not a stretch to think it could have played a role here.

He bounced back up for about a second and then collapsed. Commotio cordis doesn't require an "exceptionally hard" hit, just one that happens with enough energy at in a very narrow window of the patient's cardiac cycle.
 
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Why are people so obsessed with covid and the vaccine? It is completely irrelevant here
 
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he bounced up immediately afterwards.
Unconsciousness results in less than 10 seconds with cardiac arrest. Watch the video and time it.

As to your quote "last time was in 1971", if you mean an NFL player going into cardiac arrest on the field, then, yes, you are correct. However, there are about 30 cases per year across all comers.
 
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I mean, haven't you all witnessed the VF on the monitor and seen the patient talking and had to tell the antsy nurse/medic to waaaaait for it, waaaaait for it... until the patient says "oh, I feel a little lightheaded..." and waaaaaaaait for it, "ok, NOW you can shock."


Because otherwise you get an OW! Why'd you do THAT!?! In a still conscious patient who just got kicked by a horse. Because 10 seconds is a LONG time when you're watching that monitor and waiting.
 
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Unconsciousness results in less than 10 seconds with cardiac arrest. Watch the video and time it.

As to your quote "last time was in 1971", if you mean an NFL player going into cardiac arrest on the field, then, yes, you are correct. However, there are about 30 cases per year across all comers.
Exactly. A kid I played little league died of commotio from a pitch when were 12 or so. I mentioned this at work during this NFL game, and another doc also had a kid he know die from a lacrosse ball, and a nurse mentioned knowing someone who died in little league when they were young.

We’re all around 40yo, these events were almost 30yr ago and COVID/vaccine had nothing to do with them.
 
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Hamlin has been discharged "neurologically intact". Cause has not been announced.

Whatever the cause, this is a win for prompt, good emergency care.
 
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Hamlin has been discharged "neurologically intact". Cause has not been announced.

Whatever the cause, this is a win for prompt, good emergency care.
Heck, I was at the gym today and espn was on the screen, and they were already talking about the bills chances if Hamlin comes back lol…
 
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