Bipolar and residency?

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Mastashake

Dr. John Zoidberg, M.D.
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Is Bipolar II a disqualification for residency? I know there is a medical qualification to residencies, and I also know they keep pretty hush-hush about it until your residency rolls around. I've seen lots and lots of posts on here about people having it while being a doctor, but if you're already diagnosed before going in, it might make a difference. Its a lot harder to take away someone's license for something like this, than it is to never give them one, you know?

BTW, I have been diagnosed, and am currently taking an SSRI and an atypical anti-psychotic. I posted this in off-topic lounge, and was told this was the best place.

Thank you ahead of time.
 
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Is Bipolar II a disqualification for residency? I know there is a medical qualification to residencies, and I also know they keep pretty hush-hush about it until your residency rolls around. I've seen lots and lots of posts on here about people having it while being a doctor, but if you're already diagnosed before going in, it might make a difference. Its a lot harder to take away someone's license for something like this, than it is to never give them one, you know?

BTW, I have been diagnosed, and am currently taking an SSRI and an atypical anti-psychotic. I posted this in off-topic lounge, and was told this was the best place.

Thank you ahead of time.

Dont take my word for it but i do believe that it can disqualify you. You would have to do further research or get an answer from someone who is pretty sure. I think other factors also come into play, such as your recovery rate- is your condition improving. I really hope that i am wrong about the condition being something that can disqualify you. That is just unfair!

Good Luck
 
There is almost nothing that is an automatic disqualification for residency and licensure.

You HAVE to be eligible for a state medical license. Most states will ask if you are either currently being treated or have been treated in the last 5 years for x, y and z. Some will specify only drug and alcohol, others will ask only for things which may interfere with your practice of medicine.

Here is what the Arizona Medical License application asks for (which is fairly stringent in terms of documentation):

CONFIDENTIAL
Physical/Mental Health and Substance Abuse
1. Within the last five years, have you been diagnosed, treated or admitted to a hospital or otherfacility for the treatment of bi-polar disorder, schizophrenia, paranoia or any psychotic disorder? YES 􀂆 NO 􀂆
2. Are you now or have you in the last 5 years been addicted to or abused any chemical substanceincluding alcohol (excluding tobacco and caffeine)? YES 􀂆 NO 􀂆
3. Are you now being treated or have you in the last 5 years been treated or evaluated for a drug or alcohol addiction or participated in a rehabilitation program? *If in a confidential program in another state see explanation below.YES 􀂆 NO 􀂆
4. Have you ever been criminally charged with or investigated by any healthcare licensing authority, healthcare association, licensed healthcare facility or healthcare staff of such facility for inappropriate contact with a patient or patients? YES 􀂆 NO 􀂆
5. Do you currently have any disease or condition that interferes with your ability to competently and safely perform the essential functions of your profession, include any disease or condition generally regarded as chronic by the medical community, i.e. (1) behavioral health illness or
condition; (2) alcohol or other substance abuse; and/or (3) physical disease or condition, that may presently interfere with your ability to competently and safely perform the essential functions involved in your usual practice? See below for definition of ability to practice medicine.
YES 􀂆 NO 􀂆

In the event you answer YES to any of the above questions, you must file with the application a detailed written narrative statement concerning the above matter(s), including the name and address of all training programs or healthcare providers, physicians, preceptors, hospitals/rehabilitation centers, etc. where you were counseled/treated. You must also have a copy of your history and physical examinations, consultation reports, discharge summaries from all hospitals/rehabilitation centers and a statement from
your attending physicians or treating therapists setting forth your diagnosis, prognosis and recommendations for continuing care, treatment, supervision and a statement as to whether there is anything that would prevent you from safely practicing any type of medicine. This must be sent directly to the AMB.

If you are currently participating or have participated pursuant to a CONFIDENTIAL AGREEMENT OR ORDER in a program for the treatment and rehabilitation of doctors of medicine impaired by alcohol, drug abuse or for other issues YOU MUST SUBMIT A NARRATIVE OF CIRCUMSTANCES WITH YOUR APPLICATION AND REQUEST THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTATION BE SENT DIRECTLY TO THE ARIZONA MEDICAL BOARD’S PHYSICIAN HEALTH PROGRAM.
􀁹 Evaluation/Treatment records
􀁹 Psychiatric/Psychological records
􀁹 Compliance reports from state monitoring programs
Please note: All documents requested above must be sent directly from the primary source to the Arizona Medical Board’s Physician Health Program Department from the primary source and will not be accepted if submitted by the applicant.

FAILURE TO PROPERLY ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS OR DISCLOSE ALCOHOL, SUBSTANCE ABUSE OR OTHER ISSUES CAN RESULT IN BOARD DISCIPLINARY ACTION, INCLUDING REVOCATION OR DENIAL OF A LICENSE.
If you have any questions, please contact the Board’s Physician Health Program at (480) 551-2716 or (877) 255-2212.

Ability to practice medicine is to be construed to include all of the following:
1. The cognitive capacity to make appropriate clinical diagnoses and exercise reason medical judgments and to learn and keep abreast of medical developments;
2. The ability to communicate those judgments and medical information to patients and other healthcare providers, with or without the use of aids or devices, such as a voice amplifier; and
3. The physical capability to perform medical tasks such as physical examination and surgical procedures, with or without the
use of aids or devices, such as corrective lenses or hearing aids.

“Medical condition” includes physiological, mental or psychological conditions or disorders, such as, but not limited to chronic and/or uncorrected orthopedic, visual, speech, or hearing impairments, epilepsy, multiple sclerosis, behavioral health illness, dementia, drug addiction and alcoholism.

Whether they accept your treatment as being sufficient to practice medicine is up to the board. THis will be true for any state you apply. There are no hard and fast rules that BiPolar Disorder is an automatic disqualification - if it were medical schools would not accept students with the disease and there would be a lot of physicians out there out of work. I have known more than one BPD physician (and some that I have suspected of having it).
 
Wow, what wonderful advice!!! Thank you so much!
 
There is almost nothing that is an automatic disqualification for residency and licensure.

You HAVE to be eligible for a state medical license. Most states will ask if you are either currently being treated or have been treated in the last 5 years for x, y and z. Some will specify only drug and alcohol, others will ask only for things which may interfere with your practice of medicine.

Here is what the Arizona Medical License application asks for (which is fairly stringent in terms of documentation):

CONFIDENTIAL
Physical/Mental Health and Substance Abuse
1. Within the last five years, have you been diagnosed, treated or admitted to a hospital or otherfacility for the treatment of bi-polar disorder, schizophrenia, paranoia or any psychotic disorder? YES �� NO ��
2. Are you now or have you in the last 5 years been addicted to or abused any chemical substanceincluding alcohol (excluding tobacco and caffeine)? YES �� NO ��
3. Are you now being treated or have you in the last 5 years been treated or evaluated for a drug or alcohol addiction or participated in a rehabilitation program? *If in a confidential program in another state see explanation below.YES �� NO ��
4. Have you ever been criminally charged with or investigated by any healthcare licensing authority, healthcare association, licensed healthcare facility or healthcare staff of such facility for inappropriate contact with a patient or patients? YES �� NO ��
5. Do you currently have any disease or condition that interferes with your ability to competently and safely perform the essential functions of your profession, include any disease or condition generally regarded as chronic by the medical community, i.e. (1) behavioral health illness or
condition; (2) alcohol or other substance abuse; and/or (3) physical disease or condition, that may presently interfere with your ability to competently and safely perform the essential functions involved in your usual practice? See below for definition of ability to practice medicine.
YES �� NO ��

In the event you answer YES to any of the above questions, you must file with the application a detailed written narrative statement concerning the above matter(s), including the name and address of all training programs or healthcare providers, physicians, preceptors, hospitals/rehabilitation centers, etc. where you were counseled/treated. You must also have a copy of your history and physical examinations, consultation reports, discharge summaries from all hospitals/rehabilitation centers and a statement from
your attending physicians or treating therapists setting forth your diagnosis, prognosis and recommendations for continuing care, treatment, supervision and a statement as to whether there is anything that would prevent you from safely practicing any type of medicine. This must be sent directly to the AMB.

If you are currently participating or have participated pursuant to a CONFIDENTIAL AGREEMENT OR ORDER in a program for the treatment and rehabilitation of doctors of medicine impaired by alcohol, drug abuse or for other issues YOU MUST SUBMIT A NARRATIVE OF CIRCUMSTANCES WITH YOUR APPLICATION AND REQUEST THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTATION BE SENT DIRECTLY TO THE ARIZONA MEDICAL BOARD’S PHYSICIAN HEALTH PROGRAM.
�� Evaluation/Treatment records
�� Psychiatric/Psychological records
�� Compliance reports from state monitoring programs
Please note: All documents requested above must be sent directly from the primary source to the Arizona Medical Board’s Physician Health Program Department from the primary source and will not be accepted if submitted by the applicant.

FAILURE TO PROPERLY ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS OR DISCLOSE ALCOHOL, SUBSTANCE ABUSE OR OTHER ISSUES CAN RESULT IN BOARD DISCIPLINARY ACTION, INCLUDING REVOCATION OR DENIAL OF A LICENSE.
If you have any questions, please contact the Board’s Physician Health Program at (480) 551-2716 or (877) 255-2212.

Ability to practice medicine is to be construed to include all of the following:
1. The cognitive capacity to make appropriate clinical diagnoses and exercise reason medical judgments and to learn and keep abreast of medical developments;
2. The ability to communicate those judgments and medical information to patients and other healthcare providers, with or without the use of aids or devices, such as a voice amplifier; and
3. The physical capability to perform medical tasks such as physical examination and surgical procedures, with or without the
use of aids or devices, such as corrective lenses or hearing aids.

“Medical condition” includes physiological, mental or psychological conditions or disorders, such as, but not limited to chronic and/or uncorrected orthopedic, visual, speech, or hearing impairments, epilepsy, multiple sclerosis, behavioral health illness, dementia, drug addiction and alcoholism.

Whether they accept your treatment as being sufficient to practice medicine is up to the board. THis will be true for any state you apply. There are no hard and fast rules that BiPolar Disorder is an automatic disqualification - if it were medical schools would not accept students with the disease and there would be a lot of physicians out there out of work. I have known more than one BPD physician (and some that I have suspected of having it).

But isn't that somewhat open to interpretation? I mean, if you had a hx of depression as a med student (who wasn't depressed as a med student?), was treated for it with an SSRI, and you're now fine and totally competent to practice medicine, it seems like it would be in your best interested not to report this to the board of medicine in Arizona and perfectly ethical to do so since you're competent.
 
But isn't that somewhat open to interpretation?

Clearly. This is why I told the OP that there are no guarantees. Medical Boards are made up of individuals and it will depend on how they interpret the medical documentation provided to them.

Note that just because you say that you are able to perform your duties doesn't mean that you don't have to provide documentation if you answered "yes" to the first question.

I mean, if you had a hx of depression as a med student (who wasn't depressed as a med student?), was treated for it with an SSRI, and you're now fine and totally competent to practice medicine, it seems like it would be in your best interested not to report this to the board of medicine in Arizona and perfectly ethical to do so since you're competent.

It is in your best interests to be honest.

If you have not been diagnosed, treated or admitted for one of the listed medical problems within the last 5 years, then it is ok to say "no" to that question. However, even if you are "fine" and "totally competent" in your opinion, lying to the first question if you have been diagnosed/treated/admitted within the time frame specified is not wise. You will lose any license awarded if you were found out to have lied on the application.

Bear in mind that some states may not have a time limit; they may want to know if you have EVER been diagnosed/treated/admitted, etc.

I was just using Arizona as an example of the types of questions which are asked.
 
Agreed with WS that there is no one specific diagnosis that prevents you from doing residency. However, I have seen several people struggle with what clearly (in hindsight) was a chronic psychiatric condition while in residency. Some have been able to push through and make it. Some have not.

One of the big issues to consider is the type of residency -- specifically the effect of your residency on your sleep cycle. Residency with many overnight shifts and disrupted sleep cycles seems to trigger relapses of both psychological and medical illnesses. When looking at residencies, you might want to keep this in mind. It might limit your choices of fields. Just food for thought.
 
The above is excellent advice.

Being medically controlled on psychotropics while leading a relatively relaxed life, doesn't not translate into good control under the physical and psychological stressors of residency. Couple poor sleep patterns, increased work load and responsibility and you have the recipe for disaster in some people who may have been controlled before, albeit not well.
 
Thank you all very much! It sounds like there are no guarantees either way.

That's scary considering how much time has to be invested in becoming a doctor. I know there are no guarantees in life, but the thought of working so hard and in vain, is very disheartening.

But once again, thanks for all of the help!
 
By reading this i realize that while i (or maybe us) worry all the time of getting good scores, usce.. Do that.. Do this, there are problems and variables that are totally out of one's control.

I wish you all the best. Hope you get the courage and the luck to see it all through.
 
By reading this i realize that while i (or maybe us) worry all the time of getting good scores, usce.. Do that.. Do this, there are problems and variables that are totally out of one's control.

I wish you all the best. Hope you get the courage and the luck to see it all through.

Thank you. And I can feel the same way and see other variables that are even worse. A hard-knock life, if you will, is subjective.

I KNOW I can do it if I put my blood, sweat and tears into it. Though I've felt that way before, too (during my upswings). But I will just keep pushing on, doing the best I can. If that's not good enough, then fine. At least I can say I did my best.

Thanks again,
Shake
 
PM Emily Forest, a blogger on this site. She's a current MS4 diagnosed with Bipolar 1 and writes openly about being a med student with a major psych diagnosis.
 
While technically there are only a few things that are automatically disqualifying for a medical license (and this is the REAL ?, I dont believe individual residencies have greater/different roadblocks than the state boards themselves), my own experience with residents who had DSMIV Dx is different. A few informal colleagues I knew had some psych issues that led to time off, new Dx etc and it was a considerable big deal to rejoin their class, in fact none of them did.

This makes me conclude that if your DSMIV at all effects your performance and/or requires extensive time off, you could be in trouble finishing training and in the end maintaining licensure. Once licensure is lost in 1 state, it is very hard to impossible to newly secure it another state.
 
sorry for bumping an old thread.

what fields of medicine would you think are more appropriate for a person in the bipolar spectrum?

Trying to chose between EM/Neurosurg/Psych, but having second thoughts about each because of my bipolar and GAD diagnosis.

I'm guessing if you can survive the shifts of residency, you can find a job with appropriate daytime hours in any field - even advanced surgical fields?
Not with EM and I would say probably not with Neurosurg until you've built up a large spine practice at a surgery center so you don't have to take call.
 
I think psych would be pretty welcoming. I've definitely met a couple psych attendings who fit the criteria for bipolar II.
 
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