BK ultrasound for regional

[acidbase1]

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we purchased a BK us machine in a bit of a hurry due to not having another in the hospital. Has anyone used these for regional? We are very underwhelmed by the image quality, it’s nearly impossible to find the needle and the anatomical structures are difficult to make out. The lower end GEs are far superior imo. We have reached out to the reps multiple times about our struggles and all the way is “we aren’t using the image controls appropriately”. Even after having the rep back out no change.

At any rate, was just wondering what everyone else’s experience is with this company bc we were told it was the best unit in the industry by many. We spent far more than the GE and SonoSite

 

[facted]

we purchased a BK us machine in a bit of a hurry due to not having another in the hospital. Has anyone used these for regional? We are very underwhelmed by the image quality, it’s nearly impossible to find the needs and the anatomical structures are impossible to make out. The lower end GEs are far superior imo. We have reached out to the reps multiple times about our struggles and all the way is “we aren’t using the image controls appropriately”. Even after having the rep back out no change.

At any rate, was just wondering what everyone else’s experience is with this company bc we were told it was the best unit in the industry by many. We spent far more than the GE and SonoSite

Very interesting, not sure what the issue could be. The machines from them that I've seen have phenomenal image quality.

Our pain guys have one and it's really superb. Crushes the sonosite image.

 

[dchz]

I don't think the image quality is brand specific (despite what they want you to think).

First and foremost, what probe are you using? And are you on the correct exam settings, or can customize focus area or image settings? (I know this is a basic question and you're not stupid, but this is the first thing I'd do to rule out operator error) not all linear probes are created equal, some linear probes can go from 12- 4 megahertz while others can go to 14-3 megahertz (higher frequency = better image, but also harder to see deep structures). The 14 MHz would be optimal for supraclav and IV and a lines. But I might go to a convex 7-3 to block a whale on the leg.

The technology is so old none of it is proprietary, so every brand should be able to meet your needs. I personally have needled people with BK and sonosite and I don't see enough difference to pay a lot of money for....

Another point is that the needle itself influences the block image. A 20G stimplex works fine in most cases but B-braun or Arrow (again both brand should be able to meet your need, none of the tech should be proprietary) might offer you a needle that are fenestrated so it lights up like a rocket.

Both BK and sonosite (I'm sure GE does as well but I don't have any personal experience) have a "needle-finder" function that enhances the needles in the image. So that might help if you optimized both the probe and the needle.

Hope this helps. I'm on my cell so it's hard to link you on here, but you can Google the different probes that BK has so you can see if you're using the best one for your needs.

 

[dchz]

Also as a warning to other groups that are looking to spend some serious money on ultrasounds: the reps are salesman that are meant to smoothen the transfer of funds. They aren't passionate tech geeks that know the product in and out... So I would ensure someone is designated and responsible for the technical side of it working.

This is one of my experiences as an example:

B Braun and Phillips partnered up to make a new portable ultrasound machine that is meant to compete with sonosite's edge II. Our anes department is very sonosite heavy while the ED is mindray heavy, but the b Braun reps have our ear due to the fact that they supply all the peripherals so they convinced us to try their new Xperius system.

The image quality is not better (actually way worse), the functionality is not better. The system has color Doppler but cannot do pulse wave (color doppler is literally pulse wave everywhere applied to the entire screen). When I asked the rep why don't they have pulse wave they told me they can't fit the technology on the machine. When I told her this is literally the same tech as color Doppler, she backtracked and said the feature would cost like $20k more...

For reference: a new sonosite edge 2 costs $25k with 1 phased array and 1 linear probe (and pulsewave built in) while the B-braun unit we were looking at was $30k with 2 linear probes.

That's the moment I realized that they literally repackaged the technology to make it look cooler. If anyone bought this, they would be paying for the redesign with literally no advantage over sonosite. The rep also revealed over several days that they used to work for mind ray, but the commission for the B-braun ultrasound was so much better that they jumped ship.

I hope that gave you some insight to the corporate culture: they repackaged the same tech so they could charge more. They would rather pay the salesman more than to go back and change the design of an inferior unit.

 

[dhb]

we purchased a BK us machine

It's the tripple whopper of US

 

[AdmiralChz]

We are getting ready to replace our old (5-10 years) sonosites- we are bringing in reps and one stipulation is we have to trial them before purchase. This is a great way to check out what you are getting - see if it works with your general practice. Oddly BK is refusing to bring a sample machine, so we have told them they are out of the running already.

We did the same in fellowship when we trialed Philips vs GE TEE machines. They have very different interfaces, and it was essential for us to come up with a decision beyond the numbers.

 

[kmurp]

Also as a warning to other groups that are looking to spend some serious money on ultrasounds: the reps are salesman that are meant to smoothen the transfer of funds. They aren't passionate tech geeks that know the product in and out... So I would ensure someone is designated and responsible for the technical side of it working.

This is one of my experiences as an example:

B Braun and Phillips partnered up to make a new portable ultrasound machine that is meant to compete with sonosite's edge II. Our anes department is very sonosite heavy while the ED is mindray heavy, but the b Braun reps have our ear due to the fact that they supply all the peripherals so they convinced us to try their new Xperius system.

The image quality is not better (actually way worse), the functionality is not better. The system has color Doppler but cannot do pulse wave (color doppler is literally pulse wave everywhere applied to the entire screen). When I asked the rep why don't they have pulse wave they told me they can't fit the technology on the machine. When I told her this is literally the same tech as color Doppler, she backtracked and said the feature would cost like $20k more...

For reference: a new sonosite edge 2 costs $25k with 1 phased array and 1 linear probe (and pulsewave built in) while the B-braun unit we were looking at was $30k with 2 linear probes.

That's the moment I realized that they literally repackaged the technology to make it look cooler. If anyone bought this, they would be paying for the redesign with literally no advantage over sonosite. The rep also revealed over several days that they used to work for mind ray, but the commission for the B-braun ultrasound was so much better that they jumped ship.

I hope that gave you some insight to the corporate culture: they repackaged the same tech so they could charge more. They would rather pay the salesman more than to go back and change the design of an inferior unit.

That’s a good deal on the SonoSite. We literally just bought one with two probes and printer for $31k. Was quoted the same price as you for the Braun and had the same opinion on the image. We were told by Braun that the machine and probes are being completely redesigned and will be available in a couple months. We would be given the new machine when available, if we bought their current one but I was uncomfortable with that so went SonoSite.

 

[Hoya11]

That’s a good deal on the SonoSite. We literally just bought one with two probes and printer for $31k. Was quoted the same price as you for the Braun and had the same opinion on the image. We were told by Braun that the machine and probes are being completely redesigned and will be available in a couple months. We would be given the new machine when available, if we bought their current one but I was uncomfortable with that so went SonoSite.

God I wonder what the mark up is on that 31k... it seems like such a simple thing for that much money, i feel like the cost to make is like 500 bux

 

[acidbase1]

I’m telling you guys, we have tried pretty much everything. This machine can also be used for image guided biopsies, maybe it’s great for this? I’ve played with settings (like x shine to enhance the needle) and nothing works.

I’d be careful before purchase, kinda feel like we were fooled