blacklisted by secretaries?

[psychdocstudent]

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I am not sure if I am getting a little paranoid. Today I had a phone call with a secretary in a program and she sounded inpatient with me and even before I finished my question she found an excuse and hanged up the phone.

I started to find a way to not express "any" negative emotions on phone even if things don't go my way. I mean ...I don't want to go into too much details here so that someone can identify themselves. However, I found that partly due to cultural differences, some secretaries here appear to be overly sensitive and easily annoyed to me. I am afraid that they would put me on black list even before I apply. And if that's the case, I hope I will find out earlier instead of being rejected even before my application file is in.

I don't know if this is a legitimate concern. I am trying to maintain professional but don't know why some secretaries are so sensitive. I feel that if there are a lot of applicants in the program, the secretaries seem to be more judging and more sensitive. Is there any chance that she would put me on blacklist based on a inquiry? I noticed that she stopped answering my phone calls and when I hided my number, she picked up the phone and said that someone else will get back to me later.

I just hope that my chance to a program is not ruined by a secretary's sensitivity. I honestly don't think that I did anything abnormal.

 

[PsychBA]

Given the scant information provided, it's very difficult to speculate on what's going on at your school, the causes (person, environment, timing, dynamics) of the current situation, what you should do and what could happen.

Take some time to examine how your behavior may have contributed to the situation. Also, can you meet the secretary face to face? If not, can you call the secretary and ask her if she is upset at something you said or done? Can you speak to another secretary instead if this one is a little nutty or has a thing against you?

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Given the scant information provided, it's very difficult to speculate on what's going on at your school, the causes (person, environment, timing, dynamics) of the current situation, what you should do and what could happen.

Take some time to examine how your behavior may have contributed to the situation. Also, can you meet the secretary face to face? If not, can you call the secretary and ask her if she is upset at something you said or done? Can you speak to another secretary instead if this one is a little nutty or has a thing against you?

Going to agree with this. If it's an isolated incident (i.e., if this is the only secretary who seems to be upset), then perhaps it's just something with her. However, it sounds more like there have been multiple secretaries/administrative assistants you've spoken with who've reacted this way, which leads me to believe that it might be something related to your interpersonal style when interacting with them. Rather than pawning it off on them as being "too sensitive," as PsychBA suggests, you could use this as an opportunity to evaluate these issues. After all, if you're rubbing the secretaries the wrong way just via a short phone contact, it's possible the same thing could happen when spending larger amounts of time with POIs in person during interviews.

As for "black listing," while the secretary/admin assistant will likely be able to vent his/her opinion to faculty, he/she doesn't often seem to be very involved in the admissions selection process itself. And unless something egregious had happened, I don't know that he/she would actually somehow flag your materials and prevent them from getting to the department.

 

[beantownpsych]

As for "black listing," while the secretary/admin assistant will likely be able to vent his/her opinion to faculty, he/she doesn't often seem to be very involved in the admissions selection process itself. And unless something egregious had happened, I don't know that he/she would actually somehow flag your materials and prevent them from getting to the department.

While a secretary/admin assistant won't prevent your application from getting to the department, they can definitely influence the admissions process. I know several research-heavy PhD programs that specifically ask for feedback from admin staff about applicants because it gives them an idea on how candidates act when not trying to impress the bigwigs. Be nice, don't piss off the staff (or current grad students) because it can come back to haunt you (not just in the admit process, but also in grad school).

 

[spafticus]

Maybe I am misreading your post, but I have the impression that you are just annoying the secretaries. What kind of questions are you asking them that would warrant repeated calls and even hiding your number?

EVERY department secretary is extremely busy and I'm sure get quite annoyed if someone (who isn't even in their department yet) repeatedly ask questions that may be readily available elsewhere.

 

[thepug]

Maybe I am misreading your post, but I have the impression that you are just annoying the secretaries. What kind of questions are you asking them that would warrant repeated calls and even hiding your number?

EVERY department secretary is extremely busy and I'm sure get quite annoyed if someone (who isn't even in their department yet) repeatedly ask questions that may be readily available elsewhere.

I agree.

On one hand I agree that secretaries or rather admin. staff in universities in general are, well...ridiculously ridiculous, however, I have to wonder just what the hell it is you are calling about that makes you feel the need to call so many times. I mean really man what could you possibly be asking other than whether or not your materials are there? If there not/the secretaries cannot find them, just send them again just in case.

Is the secretary being unprofessional though? You bet!
Are eyebrows being raised as to you being part of the problem? You bet!
Will you get accepted at this particular program, probability wise? Not likely! (I only say this so that if you don't get in anywhere you don't think this was THE ONE and the secretary blew it for you)

 

[psychdocstudent]

I agree.

On one hand I agree that secretaries or rather admin. staff in universities in general are, well...ridiculously ridiculous, however, I have to wonder just what the hell it is you are calling about that makes you feel the need to call so many times. I mean really man what could you possibly be asking other than whether or not your materials are there? If there not/the secretaries cannot find them, just send them again just in case.

Is the secretary being unprofessional though? You bet!
Are eyebrows being raised as to you being part of the problem? You bet!
Will you get accepted at this particular program, probability wise? Not likely! (I only say this so that if you don't get in anywhere you don't think this was THE ONE and the secretary blew it for you)

My question was not answered. And as I tried to ask again she said that she will try to find out and get back to me. I left a message to clarify my question. Then nobody called back. I called a couple times and nobody answered. If this small incidence hurts my chance of admission I think it's rather unfair and unprofessional. I just hope that I can get some confirmation so that I don't waste any more time on this program. It is as if we cannot ask a second question and as if we need to treat them like queens. I don't think they should be given any power to gossip applicants unless there are something outrageous.
I dont quite understand or like your last sentence.

 

[Ollie123]

How long did you give her to find the answer? I'm not sure if this took place over hours/days/weeks, and that may make a big difference in how it is interpreted. If you called 5 times over the course of 2 days then I think its reasonable to be irritated, given its possible the person she had to find out from was at a conference, etc. On the other hand if you just called to check back 2 weeks later because you didn't hear anything, that seems more reasonable. I think chances of it seriously hurting your admissions chances are low even if you did the former, but it is a general rule of thumb to be nice to everyone, no matter how inept you perceive them to be, in situations like this. That's just a general life skill that is good to have.

I think pugs last point was just that the odds of getting accepted to most programs are very low to begin with (at least non-professional schools will typically accept < 10% of applicants) so if you don't get interviewed/accepted there is a very good chance it would have absolutely nothing to do with the secretary.

 

[wigflip]

My question was not answered. And as I tried to ask again she said that she will try to find out and get back to me. I left a message to clarify my question. Then nobody called back. I called a couple times and nobody answered. If this small incidence hurts my chance of admission I think it's rather unfair and unprofessional. I just hope that I can get some confirmation so that I don't waste any more time on this program. It is as if we cannot ask a second question and as if we need to treat them like queens. I don't think they should be given any power to gossip applicants unless there are something outrageous.
I dont quite understand or like your last sentence.

Departmental secretaries are often underpaid and treated like garbage by grad students and faculty alike. At least one of my first year profs really made a point of coaching us to dislike our department staff. And one of our full time staff members disclosed to me that s/he makes $10/hour--nowhere near enough to live in in the area the program is located in.

I'm not saying that whatever treatment you've received is your fault (it may or may not be), but being extra nice to staff is never a bad idea. Once you're in a program they can be very helpful, or obstructionist if they are so inclined.

There is another possibility (beyond the OP having done something to piss off the secretary, though that seems a definite possibility)--if a staff member is ALWAYS pissy, it might be a sign that s/he works in a particularly toxic department. Consider having a friend call (after a little time has passed) and ask a non-identical question. See what her/his experience is like.

 

[erg923]

My question was not answered. And as I tried to ask again she said that she will try to find out and get back to me. I left a message to clarify my question. Then nobody called back. I called a couple times and nobody answered. If this small incidence hurts my chance of admission I think it's rather unfair and unprofessional. I just hope that I can get some confirmation so that I don't waste any more time on this program. It is as if we cannot ask a second question and as if we need to treat them like queens. I don't think they should be given any power to gossip applicants unless there are something outrageous.
I dont quite understand or like your last sentence.

The world is not perfect. The world is not fair. This is reality.

However, programs ARE generally pretty good about spelling out the application instructions so that there are minimal if any questions about the process. If you really cant figure it out, I would always email before calling anyone anyway. This way, you avoid your current problem.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I'd agree with one of the above posts saying that a large part of the issue rests on the time frame over which these contacts occurred. In general, with these sorts of issues, I'd recommend waiting at LEAST a few days before contacting them again, unless the administrative worker specifically states that he/she will get back to you by time XX and to call if you don't hear by then. Having patience with these sorts of things is crucial during the application process, and even moreso in grad school, where professors can sometimes take a week or two to respond if the issue isn't urgent.

And yes, the administrative staff are often overworked during specific times of the year, such as the application cycle. Even in a department like mine, where the staff were generally treated very well by faculty and students, they can sometimes become a bit short-tempered when things start piling up.

 

[aequitasveritas]

My question was not answered. And as I tried to ask again she said that she will try to find out and get back to me. I left a message to clarify my question. Then nobody called back. I called a couple times and nobody answered. If this small incidence hurts my chance of admission I think it's rather unfair and unprofessional. I just hope that I can get some confirmation so that I don't waste any more time on this program. It is as if we cannot ask a second question and as if we need to treat them like queens. I don't think they should be given any power to gossip applicants unless there are something outrageous.
I dont quite understand or like your last sentence.

One day perhaps you will look back on this situation and realize your part to play; how your anxiety about applying may have inhibited your ability to refrain from repeated calls. If you notice, you have evoked the same reaction on this forum that you evoked within the secretary. This is not coincidence. It is likely that you behave in ways that make others irritated with you, without realizing it until it's too late.

 

[psydtobe]

One day perhaps you will look back on this situation and realize your part to play; how your anxiety about applying may have inhibited your ability to refrain from repeated calls. If you notice, you have evoked the same reaction on this forum that you evoked within the secretary. This is not coincidence. It is likely that you behave in ways that make others irritated with you, without realizing it until it's too late.

this times 20 👍

 

[beantownpsych]

One day perhaps you will look back on this situation and realize your part to play; how your anxiety about applying may have inhibited your ability to refrain from repeated calls. If you notice, you have evoked the same reaction on this forum that you evoked within the secretary. This is not coincidence. It is likely that you behave in ways that make others irritated with you, without realizing it until it's too late.

100% agree with the above

 

[thepug]

100% agree with the above

Definitely. They even said they have issues with phone calls, which is, telling.

However, the secretary is being unprofessional and I guarantee will not call you back. 300 applicants friend. You are not getting a return call.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Definitely. They even said they have issues with phone calls, which is, telling.

However, the secretary is being unprofessional and I guarantee will not call you back. 300 applicants friend. You are not getting a return call.

Agreed; at least from the information provided, it sounds like she is acting unprofessionally.

That being said, as you've alluded, it's basically a matter of picking your battles...and this is one an applicant generally isn't going to win, so it's best to try and avoid it entirely from the get go.

 

[deadmau5]

the secretary has nothing to do with who is actually admitted. they must process all eligible applicants.

i find them to be very busy. usually they are also helping current graduates at the same time. they are probably also involved in submitting grad funding to various agencies which takes time. some departments are huge, so you have to take that into consideration. there were sometimes where i didn't even receive a response, but what are you going to do.

 

[wigflip]

i find them to be very busy. usually they are also helping current graduates at the same time. they are probably also involved in submitting grad funding to various agencies which takes time. some departments are huge, so you have to take that into consideration. there were sometimes where i didn't even receive a response, but what are you going to do.

yes. best to try to remember that s/he may be A secretary, but that doesn't mean s/he is YOUR secretary. current faculty and grad students can be enough of a handful...