BLS increased pharmacist job outlook (actual discussion)

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AlwaysContrary

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The deans of these crook pharmacy schools have BLS in their pockets.
 
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How accurate are these numbers anyway? I can't imagine there is any reliable way to predict job numbers for 10 years in the future.

We've been told that aging boomers will be retiring en mass while simultaneously causing medication usage to skyrocket for years. Then what happens? Walgreens buys stores from RiteAid and shuts down 500 locations. Existing staff absorbs the workload and maybe, maybe a few new positions are created.
 
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Also there is no way of accounting for industry changers, for example, if Amazon really does decide to get into the pharmacy business.
 
The increase over 10 years is "as fast as the average for all occupations" per the BLS, so I think it's just some random number they use when they have NFC for an occupation in the next ten years. I don't think employment outlooks should deter anyone from becoming a pharmacist though if that is what they would like to do. If this forum doesn't deter you, actually, nothing else should either :)
 
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They went from predicting growth of 900 jobs a year to 1700 jobs a year over a 10 year period. Those are still horrible numbers due to the amount of students graduating.
 
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I know PAtoPharmtoPAagaintoSDNsh**poster posted this, but I would like an actual discussion regarding the update.

Pharmacists : Occupational Outlook Handbook: : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

What gives? why did you think it goes up? Do you think this actually reflects the market?
"There are lies, damn lies and statistics." Mark Twain
1. I honestly do believe that their are kickbacks in these numbers. Pharmacy schools rely on them too much to not bribe them.
2. Where is this demand coming from? Do they expect us to be doing MTM or some BS?
3. Even if the demand increases, supply is increasing far faster. It is like giving someone a 5 second head start before releasing a tiger.
4. Finally, if I were the CEO I would squeeze the wages of pharmacists to make a profit. I wouldn't hire anyone for more than 90k. I would cut existing wages back to what RPh were making in the 80s.
 
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I'm not aware of any reason to think the numbers are fake. I see a huge, unmet need for pharmacist in community ambulatory practice settings. Additionally, there is rapid growth in a lot of healthcare professions indicating an increased need for healthcare services. I'm not surprised that there is pharmacist job growth when other professions are also experiencing job growth; however, even if the numbers are accurate, an increase in pharmacist demand may not be keeping pace with the increase in pharmacist supply.

Because of the rapid growth in the number of new pharmacy graduates since 2005, I think it's safe to assume that there are not as many pharmacists retiring as there are entering the job market. I think we would need job growth to exceed these predictions in order to avoid any problems.


Like I said, there is a huge, unmet need. Changes like gaining provider status would increase our value to clinics and may increase the number of clinics utilizing pharmacists to provide patient education and monitoring services.* Many of the clinics that desperately need pharmacist services aren't even aware of what pharmacists can offer to their practice, so it's also a matter of educating and advocating.

*it would be easier to bill for these services
 
"There are lies, damn lies and statistics." Mark Twain
1. I honestly do believe that their are kickbacks in these numbers. Pharmacy schools rely on them too much to not bribe them.
2. Where is this demand coming from? Do they expect us to be doing MTM or some BS?
3. Even if the demand increases, supply is increasing far faster. It is like giving someone a 5 second head start before releasing a tiger.
4. Finally, if I were the CEO I would squeeze the wages of pharmacists to make a profit. I wouldn't hire anyone for more than 90k. I would cut existing wages back to what RPh were making in the 80s.

I'd like to see the money if there is actual bribery. 300 yen anyone? They aren't going to bribe us. They don't need to. Since when did people actually look at BLS when planning a career (and if you are the oddball, it still doesn't disprove the general point)? For us though, it does have implications on planning block grants and pay retention.

There's two things that are really changing the pharmacy field as well as having more pharmacy schools:
1. A huge reserve of labor that isn't working because they are in family life that's more true now than before (gender demographics shifting)
2. The Boomers lasting a lot longer than what was expected for their career planning. Why give up work when you make more than triple (even adjusted from inflation) what you started out with if you started in 70s or 80s?

Sure, if I were a pharmacy company, it's a buyers market for me.

As for those statistics, they are compiled from NFC estimates, but also besides the very general factors, the statisticians do not adjust except for industry outages. Try the job market for wielders and machinists in the 1970s versus now. There's supposed to be three times the number of those guys around today, but CNC's put them out of business. Now many of those would be machinists are now your opioid/alcoholic dependent patients for lack of work. Get ahead or get down, the choice is still yours though getting to be a larger problem.
 
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There's two things that are really changing the pharmacy field as well as having more pharmacy schools:ren't going to bribe us. They don't need to. Since when did people actually look at BLS when planning a career (and if you are the oddball, it still doesn't disprove the general point)? For us though, it does have implications on planning block grants and pay retention.
1. A huge reserve of labor that isn't working because they are in family life that's more true now than before (gender demographics shifting)
2. The Boomers lasting a lot longer than what was expected for their career planning. Why give up work when you make more than triple (even adjusted from inflation) what you started out with if you started in 70s or 80s?
.


I agree with your 2 points and to add to them.....with point #1, at same point that reserve labor is likely to go back to work and want full-time hours. With point #2, many boomers can literally not afford to retire. They didn't save for retirement, because they expected to live off of business pensions, or worse yet, their adult children. Because of this necessity, boomers aren't going to be retiring anytime soon. Which leads to GenX also not being able to retire, because the infamous sandwich generation hasn't been able to save for their own retirement either, what with taking care of their irresponsible parents and their adult children who have no job prospects.

So yeah, I believe people who think retirement or women in the work force will open up jobs for pharmacists are wrong. Which doesn't meant we are now at pharmaggedon....it just means that as pharmacy schools continue to open, we are getting closer to it.
 
I agree with your 2 points and to add to them.....with point #1, at same point that reserve labor is likely to go back to work and want full-time hours. With point #2, many boomers can literally not afford to retire. They didn't save for retirement, because they expected to live off of business pensions, or worse yet, their adult children. Because of this necessity, boomers aren't going to be retiring anytime soon. Which leads to GenX also not being able to retire, because the infamous sandwich generation hasn't been able to save for their own retirement either, what with taking care of their irresponsible parents and their adult children who have no job prospects.

So yeah, I believe people who think retirement or women in the work force will open up jobs for pharmacists are wrong. Which doesn't meant we are now at pharmaggedon....it just means that as pharmacy schools continue to open, we are getting closer to it.

One question: what in the world is the 'sandwich' generation?
 
Every "grownup" I know are woefully underprepared for retirement. I can count on one, maybe two hands how many I know that are. They also have 30 year mortgages. So strange.... Im the entitled snowflake. I guess you resort to namecalling hwen backed against the wall.
 
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with point #1, at same point that reserve labor is likely to go back to work and want full-time hours. With point #2, many boomers can literally not afford to retire. They didn't save for retirement, because they expected to live off of business pensions, or worse yet, their adult children. Because of this necessity, boomers aren't going to be retiring anytime soon. Which leads to GenX also not being able to retire, because the infamous sandwich generation hasn't been able to save for their own retirement either, what with taking care of their irresponsible parents and their adult children who have no job prospects.

QFT!!
 
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Most "reserve" labor is going to be shut out entirely from job markets if they actually separated from their last employer. No need to hire anyone out of practice when you can just hire new grads at lower and lower price points. If you decide to exit the job market for a year or two, I would count on a very difficult re-entry unless you have highly specialized training of value, which most PharmDs do not
 
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I don’t care that much about these anemic numbers either... but, with Walgreens plans to shut down 500 some stores from rite aid purchase, Amazon threat, threat to repeal Obamacare, stores closing earlier/closure of 24 hour stores, I just don’t see where the job positions will come from...

Mtm, immunizations, provider status do not create many addItional jobs in general. What happens is usually your district manager will expect you to do new Tasks in addional regular duties
 
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Every "grownup" I know are woefully underprepared for retirement. I can count on one, maybe two hands how many I know that are. They also have 30 year mortgages. So strange

This. Maybe with the exception of 1 person, I don't know anyone in real life who is financially ready to retire (or projected to be financially ready to retire when they reach retirement age.) Myself included. I am amazed at the people here who talk about having (or planning to have) $1,000,000 in their retirement accounts. There are many reason why this is, and a good portion of it is due to poor choices/poor education on financial matters (myself included), but there is also a large portion of it that is due to factors beyond the person's control. I think most people unprepared for retirement have both factors figuring in.
 
This. Maybe with the exception of 1 person, I don't know anyone in real life who is financially ready to retire (or projected to be financially ready to retire when they reach retirement age.) Myself included. I am amazed at the people here who talk about having (or planning to have) $1,000,000 in their retirement accounts. There are many reason why this is, and a good portion of it is due to poor choices/poor education on financial matters (myself included), but there is also a large portion of it that is due to factors beyond the person's control. I think most people unprepared for retirement have both factors figuring in.

I just checked a 401k calculator. If you start maxing out your 401k at age 30, retire at 65, and get the average of 10% return you will have close to $3,000,000 at retirement. That's very easily achievable as a pharmacist, you just have to take that first step.
 
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For those new or recent grads working in chain retail I wouldn't count on a 30-year career with 40+ hours/week without interruption (i.e., termination). My goal is to live frugally (aiming for < $25k max annually to allow for variable health care expenses and some inflation) and save ~$5k/mo (some in tax-advantaged, some in taxable.. This does not include 401k match, which is $9k/year) so that I can retire before 50. (I do not expect to live beyond 75 anyway... 65 is questionable due to health reasons)
 
I just checked a 401k calculator. If you start maxing out your 401k at age 30, retire at 65, and get the average of 10% return you will have close to $3,000,000 at retirement. That's very easily achievable as a pharmacist, you just have to take that first step.

This average 10% return seems like a pipe dream. One has to be taking on some risk to try for that, and we've had plenty of market drops to show that risk is real.
 
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I just checked a 401k calculator. If you start maxing out your 401k at age 30, retire at 65, and get the average of 10% return you will have close to $3,000,000 at retirement. That's very easily achievable as a pharmacist, you just have to take that first step.

A lot of people have been quoting 4% over the next decade.
 
This average 10% return seems like a pipe dream. One has to be taking on some risk to try for that, and we've had plenty of market drops to show that risk is real.
I thought the average return of 10% was a commonly quoted figure, but I'm no financial advisor.
 
This average 10% return seems like a pipe dream. One has to be taking on some risk to try for that, and we've had plenty of market drops to show that risk is real.

Yea, there are paid professionals and hedge fund managers who never get more than 10%. 10% is insanely high and is not without high risks. Just because we are currently in a bull market does not mean that this risk is gone. Many people forget this and think 10% is the norm...I think we are due for another real lesson soon.
 
If you start maxing out your 401k at age 30, retire at 65, and get the average of 10% return you will have close to $3,000,000 at retirement. That's very easily achievable as a pharmacist, you just have to take that first step.

There are a couple of issues with this scenario:

First, a 10% average return over the next 35 years is optimistic. While nobody can precisely forecast the future, the current bull market will end someday.

Second, -and this is the more important point- the timing of the returns will play a huge role in how much money you'll end up with.
For ex., let's say you invest $100k over 3 years. While the average return is "5% per year, over the 3-yr period" in the scenarios below, things are definitely not the same when you look more closely:
Scenario 1: you get 5% every year, over 3 years. You end up with $115.8K (I am rounding off).
Scenario 2: the market tanks -30% the first year, then -20% the second year, then recovers +65% the third year. You end up with $92.4K
Scenario 3: the market goes down -10% the first 2 years, then goes up 35% in year 3. You end up with $109.4K
So you end up with widely different outcomes.

The problem with most financial planners is that they use a deterministic model: you get 5% (or 7%, or 10%) per year, over the next 40 years. Reality is stochastic, more like a random walk. It's akin to plotting the course of a hurricane: the further out you go in time, the more uncertainty you have.

If you use financial planners, ask them if they have access to Monte-Carlo simulations. IMO, those do a better job of modeling the future because they give you a range of possible outcomes.

(Note: I have a MBA with a concentration in Finance).

 
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