Board of Pediatrics passing rates

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CrazyPeds527

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Thought this was interesting...was directed here by an advisor. I am getting ready to start going through programs to decide where to apply and request info from.

https://www.abp.org/RESIDENT/passrates.htm

This is for years 2004-2006. Interesting results...programs like WashU St Louis, Boston Children's, UTSW, Brown are only in the 80 percent range, while other strong ones are in the 90's.

Hope this helps people

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Personally I would take it with a grain of salt.
UCSD 98% passing rate means nothing to me after doing a rotation there and finding to be as far as possible from my preferences.
 
Thought this was interesting...was directed here by an advisor. I am getting ready to start going through programs to decide where to apply and request info from.

https://www.abp.org/RESIDENT/passrates.htm

This is for years 2004-2006. Interesting results...programs like WashU St Louis, Boston Children's, UTSW, Brown are only in the 80 percent range, while other strong ones are in the 90's.

Hope this helps people

People at "top notch" programs think they are awesome and do not think they need to study for the boards. Thus, they don't do so well on the exam.

Ed
 
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wow, I am surprised to that some of the often named top places don't have the best pediatrics boards pass rates. My number one choice program has a higher pass rate than Boston's Children's and a similar number of residents. I think that passing the board certification in pediatrics does have more to do with the individual than the program though. For example, if you are dedicated to learning pediatrics then you will find out what material you need to study, and will study throughout your residency so that when it comes time to pass the boards you will do well. I think a large amount of getting all you can out of your pediatrics residency program depends on whether or not you feel comfortable/excited about going there. This just goes to show that you can do an excellent job wherever you go, but that it is up to you in the end. It would be more helpful to average the pass rates over a couple of years to get a better estimate of the teaching at the various programs, however, I think it is largely student dependent. A low pass rate might indicate a program with residents who just sit for the boards to see if they can pass and don't care whether they pass it or not. I think that in pediatrics it matters much less whether you get into a good university program versus one of the top named places, being that a good university program will get to a good fellowship, and based on board scores, there seems to be little if any additional education offered to the residents. I think that alot of top places assume that their residents/students are super-smart and don't go over some of the bread and butter peds case management issues with them, but maybe focus on the molecular pathophysiology of syndrome z . . . You would be surprised at the difference in the level of teaching at some medical schools ranked higher compared to more lowly ranked medical schools, at some of the higher ranked places they assume that all students know about this or that condition and don't cover it well.
 
As a former educator, I have to warn against putting too much stock in this info. While it is smart to be cautious of programs with a very poor pass rate, like 60%, having a high pass rate tells you very little about the quality of the program.

Just like schools can, residency programs can "teach to the test" to improve their scores. For residents this can mean lots of time spent in lectures or review type courses that are less useful in the long run than a good solid educational base.

The scores also reflect, to some degree, just the quality of test takers in the program. If the program focuses more on numbers, like Step scores, for their admission choices, it can artificially elevate their pass rate without improving the quality of pedi education and experience for their residents.
 
I had to take written and ORAL boards in pedi. I had no idea what miliary TB looked like on CXR...but still somehow managed to pass my oral boards. I actually scored below the 50%ile on my pedi boards and way better on my neo boards. Depends on what you study for...no one will ever care how you do on the pedi board as long as you pass.

Basing program views on small differences (<20% or so...) between programs in pass rate on pedi boards is a bad idea (in that it leads to silly comparisons). Did you see the ranges based on sample size in that table?
 
As a former educator, I have to warn against putting too much stock in this info. While it is smart to be cautious of programs with a very poor pass rate, like 60%, having a high pass rate tells you very little about the quality of the program.

Just like schools can, residency programs can "teach to the test" to improve their scores. For residents this can mean lots of time spent in lectures or review type courses that are less useful in the long run than a good solid educational base.

The scores also reflect, to some degree, just the quality of test takers in the program. If the program focuses more on numbers, like Step scores, for their admission choices, it can artificially elevate their pass rate without improving the quality of pedi education and experience for their residents.

I would be somewhat cautious as well of a program that has a less than 60% pass rate, or even lower. I would guess that the pediatrics boards, at least from the review books I have seen, do test the fundamental knowledge that a pediatric resident has to know to be a good pediatrician. I think there is a tendency for medical schools who don't do well with preparing their students for the boards to absolve themselves from lower scores or a relatively large number of failing students by saying well, "we don't teach for the boards, we give you a solid education that will help you to be a better doctor." I would say that if a student/resident has a good solid educational base then they will easily pass the boards/usmle step exams. If as a resident I failed the peds board exam, I would question whether I had truly learned enough to be a good pediatrician, even if I went to Boston's Children's residency program.

When I studied for my usmle I had to learn alot of the material from a different perspective, and felt that the school did a poor job of presenting the material in a structured format and missed alot of new or important information. It matters alot whether the lectures are well prepared or if a resident presents a new patient to an attending who just tries to muddle through the management process, congraulates their team, and spends 15 minutes out of the hour telling jokes! There are many lectures in medical school that I could have better spent my time reading a well-prepared book.

I think to do well on the usmle/boards you need to be an independent thinker and utilize sources of information outside your syllabus for medical school or residency. I think that studentdoctor.net is a good source of information about what are good books, and reading e-journals is a good way to stay uptodate. Schools/residency programs emphasize different aspects, and often one topic that is well covered at one place won't be covered at all at another, so it is up to the student/resident to figure out what their institution is glossing over, as well as to identify their own weakness points. My pet project, probably never to be realized, would be to create an electronic national medical student syllabus, with hyperlinks to journal articles, something which could be updated by experts in the field every couple of months, and would be heavily edited by several schools during the year, and have lots of pictures.

A pass rate of 90% for a program like Boston's Children's tells me alot, especially since supposedly a large number of these residents did very well on usmle and pediatric clerkship shelf exam. One possibility is that the lectures at boston's childrens are not well prepared, or of low quality, or not frequent enough. Another is that residents need time to rest and digest, i.e. too busy call schedules may interfer with learning objectives to a certain degree, however, I would suspect that all programs have a similar call schedule. However, barring unusual circumstances, I would not say that a resident at Boston Childrens who failed the board examinations is better prepared to be a pediatrician than a resident at another pediatric residency who passed with flying colors, just because the resident at Boston Childrens was in a supposedly great teaching environment. The PD at Boston Childrens should look at what area of the Peds Board the residents are weakest in and figure out how to buff up this part of the education.

Very important for studying for boards and in medicine is the concept of meta-cognition, i.e. being aware of what area of medical knowledge you are deficient in. If I have a peds patient in the ED and they have a presentation of a disease that I don't pick-up, or I don't know the answer immediately to a question, then I go back that day to the library or internet to figure out where the holes in my knowledge are. I think this is important for being a good doctor too, as you always need to have a certain level of curiosity about finding out what you don't know. However, some programs and schools change their syllabus very infrequently, and don't figure out how to teach old material from a new perspective, hence it becomes stagenant. The residents at Boston Childrens might be the victims of such a stagnant learning environment.
 
Good thoughts from all on this issue. I definitely will not be basing my applications SOLELY on this info...but I did find it interesting in addition to the high powered programs how many programs had low (<70%) passing rates. Looking at the confidence interval seemed to also put it in perspective if the interval was particularly large.

When you look at the board of internal medicine pass program rates (here's the link for the med-peds folks if they want to look)...
http://www.abim.org/shared/pdf_statistics/Residency Program Pass Rates for PDF.pdf

there certainly weren't any (that I saw) programs in the 60% or 50% range like there was for peds.

Thoughts on whether the programs with low rates have a poor pool of residents? Or is it the fault of a poor program study program? Or both??

(I definitely agree that basing decisions on small percentage differences probably isnt a great idea)
 
It would also be nice to know what the average score on the pediatrics board exam is for places like CHOP, Boston Children's, etc . . . I would have previously thought it to have been some of the highest in the country . . . I wonder if the internal medicine board is somehow easier? We all seem to get alot of adult medicine in medical school along the way i.e. 3 months of IM, 3 months adult surgery, 3 months FM (may be seeing a majority of adult patients) and step 2 only has some pediatrics on it, so maybe those of us interested in going into pediatrics have alot of catching up to do in terms of book knowledge.
 
Perhaps we can think together a bit about this issue and see what we might come up with. If you look at, for example, Boston Children's, CHOP, Cincinnati and Texas Children's, all ranked in anyones list of the top programs in the US, the pass rates indicate that about 2-4 residents each year do not pass the boards on average and another 1-3 residents don't take them. These are out of about 30-45 residents eligible/yr. These numbers are slightly higher than for several other programs, some well known, others not.

Why might these top ranked programs have a few board exam failures each year? Some potential reasons I can think of are (feel free to add more):

1. They accept a few "lower academic standard" residents each year for various reasons (spouse of a current resident, med student who did well clinically but does not test well, etc).

2. They don't primarily organize or run their conference schedules with the boards in mind and/or don't have a "board" review program within the training.

3. They do have such lectures but they are not well done.

4. A few residents each year ignore the need to study for the boards since they go to these programs and assume they will learn what they need for the boards by osmosis.

5. The programs are so research oriented that residents don't learn some practical things that are needed for the boards.

6. Residents are so overworked and underloved that they can't study for anything and fail the boards.

7. Residents actually take the boards after finishing residency and by then the residents in these programs are all in fellowships and haven't been using the type of knowledge needed for the boards.

So, which one(s) are responsible? Or others that I haven't thought of? And perhaps more importantly, which are the fault of the individual and which actually reflect on the program?

Well, each person applying can try to answer these questions for themselves when they interview. I am, however, as someone familiar with each of these programs and many of the residents within them over the years, entitled to an opinion.

From my view, the primary reasons are #1, #2 and #4 above and these, including #2 are principally the responsibility of the resident, not the program. Now, I think it is possible that some of the others, including #3 are involved at some programs, I think this is a negligible factor in viewing these top programs.

Ultimately, in my view, these top programs are certainly not the only place one can learn to become a good or great pediatrician. But to think that they are failing their trainees because 2-4 out of 30-45 residents each year don't pass the boards is, to say the least, not my perspective. But of course, go out and decide for yourself.

I would rather go to a residency program in which the teaching and training was cutting edge and designed to get me exposed to the latest aspects of pediatrics and worry about reading Nelson, Rudolph, etc on my own to pass the boards. Others may want a program in which the didactics are more board oriented and the teaching faculty are more board focused. This does not reflect on the program, only how it approaches teaching. If a program, any program has a 20-40% failure rate, they do need to reevaluate what they are doing. But at 10% or 2-4 residents/year, I hardly think so. But decide and ask the questions when you are out interviewing.
 
Here are my thoughts on the low pass rates at top tier programs. Remember that you take the pediatric board exam in October (i think) AFTER finishing residency. I am not sure of the month exactly, but it is a few months after you finish. This is important because if you pursue fellowship, you take boards during the first year of fellowship. This is typically the hardest year of fellowship since it is a lot of service time and call, unlike 2nd and 3rd years when you do more research. If you come from a high-powered residency program, you are probably more likely to pursue busy high-powered fellowship program. So basically you have to prepare for boards while being Q4 call and working crazy busy hours. Plus, in your fellowship, your focus is limited to the specialty your pursuing, so your exposure and studying is focused on your specialty. I think that this probably has a lot to do with the low pass rates of the high-powered programs and why a lot of solid primary-care focused residency programs have the highest passing rates.

But as other people have indicated as well, a lot of the high-powered residency programs also tend to have less general peds exposure and more subspecialty/surgical exposure with a lot of kids with zebras. This may skew your education a bit away from more general "testable" topics.

Either way, ultimately your likelihood of passing is based on your personal dedication to learning and preparation. I would hesitate to go to a program that has a really high failure rate (40-50%), but I wouldn't get too worried about comparing programs with 80-100% pass rates based on that alone.

Also, interestingly my PD told me that those with the highest risk of failing the boards are those with inservice scores on both extremes. The lowest scoring people tend to know less and learn a bit more slowly than the rest, so they are at risk. But those that score among the highest are also at risk for failing, presumably based on the fact that may become overconfident and their dedication to outside reading my be lacking.
 
I would be really interested in knowing the average scores of the inservice exams for pediatric residents, if this is the same sort of standardized inservice examination that I believe is done for internal medicine residents. Although I am sure that the pediatrics residents at places like Boston Childrens, CHOP, etc . . . see alot of rare cases, I would assume that they see all of the major bread and butter cases of acute and ambulatory pediatrics. I saw one program, University of Ann Arbor Michigan, that has a 100% pass rate for about 57 residents, i.e. all of them passed. If this was replicated year after year, then I would seriously consider this pediatric program over the traditional powerhouse programs like Boston Childrens. There are alot hidden pediatric programs out there that graduate many fellows and researchers that don't have the history of CHOP or other brand name pediatric residencies. Personally, I find it statistically improbably that Boston's Children's is always ranked number one. I think it is based on things that don't change much i.e. research funding, reputation from years past, and just momentum. But remember back in college that course that you loved, and your friends took a year or two later but hated it because the instructor or curriculum changed in a year. . . I bet the same thing can happen with peds residencies, i.e. lose a department head, or have a new program director, or a bunch of new untested attendings and the real intrinsic value of the pediatrics program drops like a rock, but the name, history and rankings keep the program up there. A large part of your education will come from the quality of your fellow residents too, I'd rather go to a place with a recent 100% pass rate, than 89% . . ..
 
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