Board Pass Rate in Residency Selection

[GasOrBust]

M4 here in the middle of the interview process. I was at a program last week that really impressed me. It seemed to fit the majority of my criteria: affordable location with plenty of opportunities for my wife and kids, very manageable hours, awesome internal moonlighting, happy residents, pleasant staff, strong in cardiac and regional.

The only potential issue as far as I can tell is a relatively low board pass rate. The PD reported their 5-year pass rate to be about 80%. (Their current accreditation cycle is 4 years by the way.) Several other places I've been tout their high pass rates (95-100%) as an important factor in selecting a residency program. How much emphasis should be placed on this? While many of my criteria revolve around family and affordability, what ultimately matters is getting good training and becoming board certified.

I know some will say passing boards is really up to the individual, and I certainly agree in part. But I do appreciate some good structured didactics to help reinforce self study. With their hours, these residents must have plenty of time to study, so I'm just not sure what to make of this.

I'd appreciate any thoughts. Thanks a lot.

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[BobBarker]

I would say board pass rate should be a significant factor. It directly speaks to the quality of didactic training.

 

[pgg]

It wouldn't automatically dissuade me, but then I'm a book learner and never really liked the didactic teaching I got all through college, med school, and residency. My program ha no morning report / daily pimp session, just a weekly academic morning, and even that was more than I really wanted personally. (We did have 1:1 staffing all 3 years though, which was nice.)

It might dissuade me if I thought they were failing because hey were being worked and abused 100h per week.

80% is right atthe average for 1st time oral takers though, is this really a flag at all?

 

[bala1]

Shouldnt be a factor. And you dont want a lot of didactics anyway, its just medical school lectures all over again. Do you want that sh** at 6 am. when you could spend that extra half hour in bed?

Programs can't make you pass the boards, only you can!

 

[GasOrBust]

It wouldn't automatically dissuade me, but then I'm a book learner and never really liked the didactic teaching I got all through college, med school, and residency. My program ha no morning report / daily pimp session, just a weekly academic morning, and even that was more than I really wanted personally. (We did have 1:1 staffing all 3 years though, which was nice.)

It might dissuade me if I thought they were failing because hey were being worked and abused 100h per week.

80% is right atthe average for 1st time oral takers though, is this really a flag at all?

An 80% pass rate is probably not so much a red flag as a question of the importance of training at a place where the pass rate is much higher. Especially with the new changes in the board certification process (first part of written boards taken after CA-1), the pass rates and didactics regimen seem like they should bear considerable weight when ranking programs. I'm really looking for a way to rationalize going to a place where it's 80% instead of 95% because the former meets so many other of my criteria for a residency.

 

[2013anes]

You may want to check to see if this is 5-year pass rate or 1-year pass rate. I think some places report their 5-year rate to appear better.

 

[IveGotTwins]

Which program is it?

 

[RMortis]

Is this information public somewhere?

 

[BobBarker]

Gentlemen, YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!

 

[zagazig]

which program is it?

ccf?

also, for the record: CCF is one of my top choices. Would love to end up there. Personally, I am not too worried about the board pass rate as long as it is reasonable.

 

[fakin' the funk]

I would say board pass rate should be a significant factor. It directly speaks to the quality of didactic training.

Assuming we are talking about written boards here...

Disagree. Board pass rate directly speaks to the quality of the residents who are selected for that program and their motivation.

Let's be honest. The ABA written boards are not hard, and you get THREE FREAKIN TRIES during residency to see how you're gonna do. Residents who fail do so out of a lack of personal motivation or duration/intensity of personal preparation.

 

[nycitygas]

When programs quote their board pass rate, what are they talking about? The written board pass rate, the oral board pass rate or both?

Anyone know what the rough pass/fail percentiles are for each?

 

[Pedsbro]

ccf?

also, for the record: CCF is one of my top choices. Would love to end up there. Personally, I am not too worried about the board pass rate as long as it is reasonable.

Am I misunderstanding this, or are you saying CCF told you their rate is 80%??? That's not what I was told/shown on my recent interview there... They were around national average (90ish%, I forget the exact number)...which I didn't think was bad considering how large their program is.

 

[GasOrBust]

Am I misunderstanding this, or are you saying CCF told you their rate is 80%??? That's not what I was told/shown on my recent interview there... They were around national average (90ish%, I forget the exact number)...which I didn't think was bad considering how large their program is.

This is VCU in Richmond.

And my understanding is that the ABA reports overall board pass rate (written + oral) over a 5 year period.

 

[Pedsbro]

This is VCU in Richmond.

And my understanding is that the ABA reports overall board pass rate (written + oral) over a 5 year period.

Oh ok...thanks. And yes, the 5-year pass rate is the only stat I've ever seen reported at interviews so far.

 

[Gern Blansten]

Oh ok...thanks. And yes, the 5-year pass rate is the only stat I've ever seen reported at interviews so far.

That 5 year overall pass rate does not have any stats about passing on the first try. Just FYI. It is nice to know how many pass the first time through.

 

[F80]

This is VCU in Richmond.

And my understanding is that the ABA reports overall board pass rate (written + oral) over a 5 year period.

Do programs know the oral board pass rate? I've had multiple PDs at interviews say they only get the written but not oral pass rate for graduates

 

[p30doc]

Do programs know the oral board pass rate? I've had multiple PDs at interviews say they only get the written but not oral pass rate for graduates

I've had programs quote oral pass rates

 

[anesthapplicant]

Another M4 here. Yes, I too have had many PDs quote outstanding written boards numbers but then say they do not get official reports back of oral pass rates so they can't give those. It is my understanding that any programs that give us oral pass numbers (and more than half of the programs I have seen do in fact give oral pass numbers during interview day) are doing so based on self-reporting, which clearly isn't worth much.

As noted in this thread, VCU has some struggles with written boards - surprising since it is a smaller size program where they should be able to identify those needing to pick it up a bit. Our tour guide also told us point blank that their AKT scores are near average at month 0 but "fall off a cliff" at month 1 and beyond.

 

[Gern Blansten]

Do programs know the oral board pass rate? I've had multiple PDs at interviews say they only get the written but not oral pass rate for graduates

Programs know who their grads are and they know how to check the ABA site to see who is certified. If the grad does not tell the program if they got the spring or fall oral exam, it can be tricky to know who is sitting for the exam on any given session. However, that being said, if the cycle has completely passed and the grads name does not appear as board certified, then they will know they did not pass. I try to keep up with my grads to know who is taking the exam for the different sessions. In addition, the 5 year data usually has enough lag in it to account for those grads who have just recently graduated and have not had time to even sit for the exam. So, in essence, the 5 year data really reflects the data from about 1.5 years ago to 6.5 years ago to allow all of the grads to cycle through one usual board cycle period For example, a grad in June will taken the written in August, pass it and then be assigned the next spring or the following fall session for the orals. If someone is assigned the fall, they could be ~1.3 years out of residency and not yet have gotten notification of passing, despite proceeding through with no failures.

 

[Gern Blansten]

It is my understanding that any programs that give us oral pass numbers (and more than half of the programs I have seen do in fact give oral pass numbers during interview day) are doing so based on self-reporting, which clearly isn't worth much.
.

See my post above. The numbers are accurate and based on ABA data, but the ABA data may be a bit outdated by the time it arrives since it will not count the grads until they have been out of residency about 1.5 years as noted above. Astute PD's will be able to give you data more current if they keep up with it. I suspect they would present the data that is most favorable. If a grad takes and passes the written in August and gets the spring orals, they can be certified before the summer after their graduation. The ABA may not provide that 5 year data to include that info for many, many months after that. The ABA does, however, provide PD's with a bulletin that lists all of the newly certified diplomates just a few weeks after the exam results are posted. They are listed alphabetically and not by program, so it takes a bit of time to compare your list with the list they provide. I suspect most PD's search this list for their grads. In the spring, if a grad is not on there, they are either taking it the next session or they did not pass.

So, all of this to say, most PD's know their up to date board certification rates, it is just not as easy to compile the most up to date data as it used to be when they released the data directly to the program. Now they say it is a privacy issue for them to release their private info to the programs. I ask my grads to stay in touch so I can have easier access to when they are sitting for the exam.

 

[anesthapplicant]

Respectfully, I don't see how anything you wrote changes my above statements. Let's clarify - at these interview sessions, PD's are trying to tell us first attempt pass rates for writtens and orals - no one seems to care much if people eventually pass - hopefully everyone does on second / third / etc attempt, that's not saying much.

Even with your detective work online, you can only come up with OVERALL oral pass rates, not FIRST-ATTEMPT oral pass rates. Unless of course, you combine your detective work with self-reporting of when your grads sat for their oral exams the first time, which in my mind makes the resulting data hardly useful.

Is that incorrect? Can you figure out exact first-time oral pass rates without relying on self-reporting from your grads? If you have a class of 8 students, like many of the smaller programs, even one student misrepresenting to you the date he first sat for his orals would drastically change the pass rate.

Either you can report an exact first-time oral pass rate or you can't. And if you can't, you should stop passing off some possibly in the ballpark rate as fact, like many PDs seem to do at these sessions. I for one appreciate the PDs who have said, "our grads report back to us that they're well prepared for orals, and they almost all report passing on their first attempt, but I can't give you hard data on this - no PD can honestly do so."

 

[Gern Blansten]

I for one appreciate the PDs who have said, "our grads report back to us that they're well prepared for orals, and they almost all report passing on their first attempt, but I can't give you hard data on this - no PD can honestly do so."

But they can and I explained how you do it. All grads that pass the written sit for the orals either in the spring or in the fall (except those who leave the country, do not register for the orals (rare), or get into some legal trouble that prevents them from getting a license). Therefore, if you do not keep in contact with your residents for them to send you the news, you can, at the very least, know that when the next fall's results are posted, if all of your grads are posted as diplomates, you have 100% first time pass rate for the previous year's class for the written and orals. If someone does not pass one of the exams, it is pretty easy to find out what happened (a phone call or email). I have always known the day results are released for my grads. If a large number of the programs grads are failing, the undertaking of finding all of the data becomes more time consuming, but I propose to you that it is easy to accomplish unless the grad just dropped off the face of the earth. I know at all times which of my grads are diplomates and "first time taken" passers of the exam and which are not. I know who took more than one try and for what exam.
A PD that tells you that it is impossible to know is either not trying, or has no follow up personal contact with their grads or both. In addition, they probably do not read the bulletin that the ABA puts out. Or it could be a side step because they don't want to tell you their numbers. In fairness, if you have 25 or more residents per year in your program, it is probably more of a challenge to keep up with the data.

 

[IlDestriero]

Respectfully, I don't see how anything you wrote changes my above statements. Let's clarify - at these interview sessions, PD's are trying to tell us first attempt pass rates for writtens and orals - no one seems to care much if people eventually pass - hopefully everyone does on second / third / etc attempt, that's not saying much.

Even with your detective work online, you can only come up with OVERALL oral pass rates, not FIRST-ATTEMPT oral pass rates. Unless of course, you combine your detective work with self-reporting of when your grads sat for their oral exams the first time, which in my mind makes the resulting data hardly useful.

Is that incorrect? Can you figure out exact first-time oral pass rates without relying on self-reporting from your grads? If you have a class of 8 students, like many of the smaller programs, even one student misrepresenting to you the date he first sat for his orals would drastically change the pass rate.

Either you can report an exact first-time oral pass rate or you can't. And if you can't, you should stop passing off some possibly in the ballpark rate as fact, like many PDs seem to do at these sessions. I for one appreciate the PDs who have said, "our grads report back to us that they're well prepared for orals, and they almost all report passing on their first attempt, but I can't give you hard data on this - no PD can honestly do so."

The PDs know who passed the written boards. Armed with that data, they can look, when the oral results are available, at who is now board certified. Those that are not the list either failed or didn't take them for some reason. That's the best that they can do.

 

[excalibur]

Let's be honest. The ABA written boards are not hard, and you get THREE FREAKIN TRIES during residency to see how you're gonna do.

BE VERY CAREFUL. PROCEED WITH CAUTION!!

Many things I find alarming about these comments.

First thing I will say is RESPECT THE TEST

If I read correctly it appears you are a CA2, which means that you have not taken the written exam yet. I don't think it's right for someone to say the written boards are not hard when they themselves have yet to take the exam. Respect the test.

I know where you are going though. Unless things have changed, the ITE's are now in March, which means that you actually get to take FOUR exams which you can use as a measuring stick. I am assuming then that you feel that the exam is not hard, because you feel you are doing very well on the ITE's. If this is true, you still need to...RESPECT THE TEST.

If you are doing well on the ITE's, I first congratulate you, as it seems your study preparation is paying dividends. I hope too that this translates to success on the real thing, as I wish on no one having to endure a failure on the anesthesia board exams. You must understand something though, your personal success on ITE's and hopeful comfortable passing of the written exam does not necessarily mean the exam is not hard. When all is said is done and you reflect on the journey, you can certainly give your personal estimation on how hard or not hard it was on passing an exam, but remember that would be how it was FOR YOU. If you want to give generalizations about the difficulty of the written exam, then you have to look at everybody who takes the exam and get their input. This is impossible, but we can look at a few things. What's the overall pass rate for 1st time takers? 80%?? Is it fair to say that an exam where 1 out of every 5 intelligent and highly accomplished individuals FAIL is not a hard exam? I don't know. That can be left for debate, but just that number shows that there is a good chunk of people who don't pass. I think it is safe to say that someone who failed is unlikely to say that the test was not hard. Do you think of the 80% who pass, do you think that all 80% will say the exam was not hard? I will say probably not. There has to be a portion of those 80% who pass that acknowledge that the exam and preparation for it was difficult for them. Just because it's easy for one doesn't mean it's easy for everybody. Recognize this.

Residents who fail do so out of a lack of personal motivation or duration/intensity of personal preparation

It was this comment which prompted me saying BE VERY CAREFUL. PROCEED WITH CAUTION!!. Why? Well first because you have not taken the test yet. I would advise not to get too cocky. RESPECT THE TEST. I would agree with you that a decent portion of those who fail are from the reason(s) you stated above, but not all of them, and I would probably say not the majority. Sure there are certainly people who fail from lack of motivation or preparation as you stated, but what about those who state they studied their tail off. What about those who did very well on ITE's and then failed?? Yes, sir, there are people who "passed" the ITE's comfortably and then failed the exam.

From SDN 2008

"I guess Im the only one here. A FAILURE!

I was absolutely devastated at the news. I mean anything can happen but not to me! I passed the ITE last year, was always in the upper 1/3 of my class on all exams!

I studied diligently....mostly Big Blue, lots of questions but somehow I failed to measure up.....in fact I am still shell shocked at the results.

I was one of the guys who was suppose to pass the exam easily. Post exam I felt pretty good, no different than the last ITE and BAM last night I got ran over by a MAC truck....I am in total disbelief and emabarassed, I feel like a failure."

Just do a search and you will find many accounts of SDN posters detailing what they did to prepare, and yet they fail. This is followed by their account of the pain they are feeling because they put so much into it, and they are told unapologetically...FAIL, and then they realize they have to go through it all over again in one year's time. Is the test not hard?

This is why I emphatically say ...RESPECT THE TEST.

I know several people (~30 real life and a few more frequent SDN posters) who have failed USMLE exams, anesthesia written, and/or anesthesia oral exams. For many of those people I know intimate details of their work ethic as residents, preparation methods for the exam, and/or the emotional struggle that they had to endure when they discovered that they failed (sometimes multiple failures). For most of the people I have spoken with it had little to do with their dedication, motivation, or time in preparation, but probably moreso with their METHOD of preparation. Most often the person who failed realizes that their time dedication was not a factor or their drive, but something had to have been wrong in their method since they failed. They then analyze how they prepared and how others prepared, seek counsel from experts in the realm of written or oral exam and try again.

 

[Gern Blansten]

BE VERY CAREFUL. PROCEED WITH CAUTION!!

Many things I find alarming about these comments.

First thing I will say is RESPECT THE TEST

If I read correctly it appears you are a CA2, which means that you have not taken the written exam yet. I don't think it's right for someone to say the written boards are not hard when they themselves have yet to take the exam. Respect the test.

I know where you are going though. Unless things have changed, the ITE's are now in March, which means that you actually get to take FOUR exams which you can use as a measuring stick. I am assuming then that you feel that the exam is not hard, because you feel you are doing very well on the ITE's. If this is true, you still need to...RESPECT THE TEST.

If you are doing well on the ITE's, I first congratulate you, as it seems your study preparation is paying dividends. I hope too that this translates to success on the real thing, as I wish on no one having to endure a failure on the anesthesia board exams. You must understand something though, your personal success on ITE's and hopeful comfortable passing of the written exam does not necessarily mean the exam is not hard. When all is said is done and you reflect on the journey, you can certainly give your personal estimation on how hard or not hard it was on passing an exam, but remember that would be how it was FOR YOU. If you want to give generalizations about the difficulty of the written exam, then you have to look at everybody who takes the exam and get their input. This is impossible, but we can look at a few things. What's the overall pass rate for 1st time takers? 80%?? Is it fair to say that an exam where 1 out of every 5 intelligent and highly accomplished individuals FAIL is not a hard exam? I don't know. That can be left for debate, but just that number shows that there is a good chunk of people who don't pass. I think it is safe to say that someone who failed is unlikely to say that the test was not hard. Do you think of the 80% who pass, do you think that all 80% will say the exam was not hard? I will say probably not. There has to be a portion of those 80% who pass that acknowledge that the exam and preparation for it was difficult for them. Just because it's easy for one doesn't mean it's easy for everybody. Recognize this.



It was this comment which prompted me saying BE VERY CAREFUL. PROCEED WITH CAUTION!!. Why? Well first because you have not taken the test yet. I would advise not to get too cocky. RESPECT THE TEST. I would agree with you that a decent portion of those who fail are from the reason(s) you stated above, but not all of them, and I would probably say not the majority. Sure there are certainly people who fail from lack of motivation or preparation as you stated, but what about those who state they studied their tail off. What about those who did very well on ITE's and then failed?? Yes, sir, there are people who "passed" the ITE's comfortably and then failed the exam.

From SDN 2008

"I guess Im the only one here. A FAILURE!

I was absolutely devastated at the news. I mean anything can happen but not to me! I passed the ITE last year, was always in the upper 1/3 of my class on all exams!

I studied diligently....mostly Big Blue, lots of questions but somehow I failed to measure up.....in fact I am still shell shocked at the results.

I was one of the guys who was suppose to pass the exam easily. Post exam I felt pretty good, no different than the last ITE and BAM last night I got ran over by a MAC truck....I am in total disbelief and emabarassed, I feel like a failure."

Just do a search and you will find many accounts of SDN posters detailing what they did to prepare, and yet they fail. This is followed by their account of the pain they are feeling because they put so much into it, and they are told unapologetically...FAIL, and then they realize they have to go through it all over again in one year's time. Is the test not hard?

This is why I emphatically say ...RESPECT THE TEST.

I know several people (~30 real life and a few more frequent SDN posters) who have failed USMLE exams, anesthesia written, and/or anesthesia oral exams. For many of those people I know intimate details of their work ethic as residents, preparation methods for the exam, and/or the emotional struggle that they had to endure when they discovered that they failed (sometimes multiple failures). For most of the people I have spoken with it had little to do with their dedication, motivation, or time in preparation, but probably moreso with their METHOD of preparation. Most often the person who failed realizes that their time dedication was not a factor or their drive, but something had to have been wrong in their method since they failed. They then analyze how they prepared and how others prepared, seek counsel from experts in the realm of written or oral exam and try again.

This is a solid gold post. Everyone should read it and heed the warnings contained. "Respect the test" should be the new battle cry.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

I thought the writtens were hard as crap, despite the fact that I did very well.

 

[anesthapplicant]

The PDs know who passed the written boards. Armed with that data, they can look, when the oral results are available, at who is now board certified. Those that are not the list either failed or didn't take them for some reason. That's the best that they can do.

Right, and those that are now board certified could have passed on the second attempt, as I understand it. So the best they can do is zilch regarding first attempt oral pass rate, as much as some PDs claim otherwise.

 

[pgg]

Right, and those that are now board certified could have passed on the second attempt, as I understand it. So the best they can do is zilch regarding first attempt oral pass rate, as much as some PDs claim otherwise.

If you fail the oral, you have to wait a year to retake it.

Bob graduates from residency.
Bob takes written. Program gets result, knows P or F.
After the next spring/fall oral cycle the program director can look on the ABA site to see if Bob is certified or not::
- board certified = 1st time pass
- not board certified = 1st time fail

 

[anesthapplicant]

If you fail the oral, you have to wait a year to retake it.

Bob graduates from residency.
Bob takes written. Program gets result, knows P or F.
After the next spring/fall oral cycle the program director can look on the ABA site to see if Bob is certified or not::
- board certified = 1st time pass
- not board certified = 1st time fail

Oh wow didn't know 1 yr rule - thanks.

 

[IlDestriero]

Oh wow didn't know 1 yr rule - thanks.

What do you think this is, the CRNA boards?:screwy:

 

[anesthapplicant]

What do you think this is, the CRNA boards?:screwy:

Haha yeah sorry about that - assumed you could sit again later that year if you failed attempt number one. Now that I know otherwise, I guess PDs should be able to calculate pretty accurate rates (at least for those who pass writtens) if they're willing to do that bit of fishing described above.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Assuming we are talking about written boards here...

Disagree. Board pass rate directly speaks to the quality of the residents who are selected for that program and their motivation.

Let's be honest. The ABA written boards are not hard, and you get THREE FREAKIN TRIES during residency to see how you're gonna do. Residents who fail do so out of a lack of personal motivation or duration/intensity of personal preparation.

Correct. It's more about the selection of the Residents themselves than the program. You should ask about the work/hours and time for study at home. Lectures at least once every 2 weeks. In the end, it is up to you to study and pass the boards

Respect the test but in the end 80 percent will pass the exam on the first try. I studied hard for the Written exam and easily passed the test. I don't think I ever passed the ITE even once but when it came down to the real thing I scored way above average. In some ways not passing the ITE provides the motivation to get prepared to crush the real exam.

These days the resources to pass the written exam are abundant. But, the motivation and energy required to pass remains the same as in my day: give it all you got and take it seriously

 

[Gern Blansten]

Haha yeah sorry about that - assumed you could sit again later that year if you failed attempt number one. Now that I know otherwise, I guess PDs should be able to calculate pretty accurate rates (at least for those who pass writtens) if they're willing to do that bit of fishing described above.

 

[Gern Blansten]

Oh wow didn't know 1 yr rule - thanks.

It's not a driving test. You must sit a year and stew about it.🙂

 

[anesthapplicant]

Nice lightbulb! - fair enough, rub it in 🙂 - there are plenty of PDs on the trail telling us otherwise. I guess they just don't feel like tracking those results down, because they're definitely not just limited to mediocre programs that might want to hide results.

 

[anesthapplicant]

Pink, one more question actually:

Can you sit for orals if you failed your writtens? If not, end of discussion...but if so, how do you handle these unknowns in your rate calculation (considering they would be the ones most likely to fail the orals)?

 

[killerleaf]

One other thing to think about when you get that rate: if it is a small class, then the rates may be skewed just a little. I mean, if Program A has a 50% pass rate last year, and Program B has a 90% pass rate last year, you are going to think that Program B is better, right? But the truth is, they both had 1 fail. Only 1. Program A has 2 people, and Program B has 10. So be sure to keep that thought in the back of your mind, also.

 

[Gern Blansten]

Pink, one more question actually:

Can you sit for orals if you failed your writtens? If not, end of discussion...but if so, how do you handle these unknowns in your rate calculation (considering they would be the ones most likely to fail the orals)?

No. You only advance to the orals if you pass the written.

 

[anesthapplicant]

Got it - thanks.

 

[ProEra]

Is this a fair game question for an applicant to ask a PD during the interview? I'm specifically asking about the 5-year pass rate. Or would the PD get offended if I were to ask? Hopefully most programs would highlight this during their obligatory Powerpoint introduction though.

 

[anbuitachi]

Is this a fair game question for an applicant to ask a PD during the interview? I'm specifically asking about the 5-year pass rate. Or would the PD get offended if I were to ask? Hopefully most programs would highlight this during their obligatory Powerpoint introduction though.

definitely a legitimate question. though most get that out of the way in their powerpoint orientation. though if they don't, im guessing they have a bad pass rate

 

[deleted171991]

Is this a fair game question for an applicant to ask a PD during the interview? I'm specifically asking about the 5-year pass rate. Or would the PD get offended if I were to ask? Hopefully most programs would highlight this during their obligatory Powerpoint introduction though.

Don't ask pass rate. Ask about pass rate on first try, both on written and orals.

I just love when they make up excuses like "the pass rate is low because all get fellowships and don't have time to study for the orals".

 

[buccsmf1]

Don't ask pass rate. Ask about pass rate on first try, both on written and orals.

I just love when they make up excuses like "the pass rate is low because all get fellowships and don't have time to study for the orals".

agreed. this is important to differentiate. Some will say during presentation that "pass rate is 95%" but thats kinda vague. Do they mean first time pass rate or total overall pass rate? Definitely a fair question to clarify and one that I asked at every interview.

 

[pgg]

It's a legit question, but it may or may not be not an especially useful one. Written board pass rate is largely dependent upon individual study habits and time devoted to board prep.

This task overlaps with but is different than the things needed to be a good resident day-to-day. It's possible to be a pretty good resident, do well in the OR, not read much, and bomb written exams. You can look great in the OR without being able to draw a FA/FI graph or the brachial plexus or the coagulation cascade ... but the written won't skip those topics.


Top programs have high board pass rates because they accept applicants with top Step 1 scores. Those guys were going to pass no matter where they did their residency. It's not that they get magical didactics at BMS's Best Residency Program. Their weekly Morgan & Mikhail lectures aren't better. They're just stronger residents.

That said, study time and OR time is a zero sum game, so a program that is a sweatshop may cut into the reading time of people who are on the cusp of passing or failing.

Do some directed, planned reading every day and you'll very likely pass the written no matter where you go for residency.


What I'm saying is that I think high board pass rates follow high step 1 scores (because of the person's study habits) and that there isn't much of a causal relationship between great residency programs and their high pass rates. Correlated yes, caused no.

You should aim for the best residency you can get for the case mix, location, maybe fellowship placement and networking/connections. Passing the board exams is on you.

 

[deleted171991]

I will maintain my opinion that, to fail the written part, one has to be a particularly bad physician (knowledge-wise). As in 210 on both steps, all ITEs failed bad. I would not want them to ever be my physician.

I passed my written boards not because of how much I read during my residency, but because of how much I knew before starting it. Current takers report the same sensation that the writtens test fundamental medical knowledge beyond just clinical anesthesia.

The percentage of graduates failing the written boards will tell you the professional quality of the candidates the program hires. The percentage failing the orals will tell you the quality of clinical thinking after one graduates that residency program. One doesn't have to be a genius to pass either.

 

[ProEra]

Thanks for the replies! Very helpful for current residency applicants.