Bombed the MCAT after my 3rd try. Need major advice

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Member 238625 said:
I took the MCAT for the first time my junior year and got a 24 (8V 8P 8B)
The second time was my senior year, and got a 21 (9V 7P 5B)
The third time was a month ago, and I got a 23 (8V 8P 7B)
I was hoping to at least break 30 and apply to SMPs right away (I was scoring 32-34 on the official practice tests). But life just shafted me with a 23.
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This can't be helping you...OK, so you took the MCAT, you didn't do well. Own it. Figure out what you did to get that score, admit it, and work on that. Magically expecting it to improve, studying the same way you did the first time, or pretending that it was just test-day error is not helpful to you. Is it testing-day stress? After the first one (definitely after the second one), recognize that and find ways to address it.

I don't know exactly what (if anything) you changed between each MCAT, but setting it all aside as "life shafted me" is a completely unhelpful attitude for improvement.
 
Some of the people on this thread are ludicrous.

You have done terribly 3 separate times on the MCAT, not even able to get as high as a score as you did on your first try. You also have terrible GPA's.

There's really nothing you can do to raise that GPA, and the likelihood of you doing OK on the MCAT is extremely low. The likelihood of you doing WELL ENOUGH on the MCAT to get into school with your score is so low that it would be a waste of your time and effort.

Instead of getting yourself pumped up thinking you're going to do really well next time and then crashing horribly when you don't, start channeling your energies into pursuing another path that is attainable for you and that will play to your strengths. If you really want to stay in healthcare, go towards podiatry, nursing, or PA school. You will still be an integral person in helping people with their lives, and you will be able to succeed in those fields.

LizzyM gave it to you straight earlier, do something else and you will be much happier that you did.
 
mehc012 said:
This can't be helping you...OK, so you took the MCAT, you didn't do well. Own it. Figure out what you did to get that score, admit it, and work on that. Magically expecting it to improve, studying the same way you did the first time, or pretending that it was just test-day error is not helpful to you. Is it testing-day stress? After the first one (definitely after the second one), recognize that and find ways to address it.

I don't know exactly what (if anything) you changed between each MCAT, but setting it all aside as "life shafted me" is a completely unhelpful attitude for improvement.
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After three attempts, it's completely pointless to take the MCAT the 4th time and expecting something better will come. It won't happen. Your argument only applies to retaking the MCAT after the first time. Retaking after the third time is a moot point. Sorry, but OP needs to look at some other career.
 
Agent B said:
After three attempts, it's completely pointless to take the MCAT the 4th time and expecting something better will come. It won't happen. Your argument only applies to retaking the MCAT after the first time. Retaking after the third time is a moot point. Sorry, but OP needs to look at some other career.
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Didn't say they should go back. I'm saying that that attitude isn't going to help them improve at ANYthing they go for. The MCAT is just an example.
 
OP can also keep taking the MCAT till he gets a score >36. I mean, its pure probability..its inevitable
 
OP, apply DO broadly and hope for the best. MD is certainly out of the question (unless you were a disadvantaged URM), but even then itll be a hard road.
 
options would be:

1) retaking classes you did poorly in (as in anything lower than a B-) and apply to DO schools that take the best out of each subsection which would put you at a 25, I know Lake Erie does this not sure which other schools. Also apply to new schools and schools with lower averages such as KYCOM, LMU-DCOM, PCOM-Ga, CUCOM, ACOM-basically learn to love the South.

2) try and get into a post-bacc program or do a master's and get a 4.0,this will take time, patience and money but would help with you low GPA/low MCAT problem

3) consider alternative careers such as PA, LPN, podiatry which would be slightly higher up on the medical totem pole

4)find something non-medically related that you are interested in and do that.

DON'T retake the damn MCAT DON'T go carri and for the love of god DON'T apply to medical school until you improve your GPA (try and get as close as possible to a 3.5 in both sci and cum)

either of these 3 would be a giant waste of your time and money.

good luck dear.
 
touchpause13 said:
options would be:

1) retaking classes you did poorly in (as in anything lower than a B-) and apply to DO schools that take the best out of each subsection which would put you at a 25, I know Lake Erie does this not sure which other schools. Also apply to new schools and schools with lower averages such as KYCOM, LMU-DCOM, PCOM-Ga, CUCOM, ACOM-basically learn to love the South.

2) try and get into a post-bacc program or do a master's and get a 4.0,this will take time, patience and money but would help with you low GPA/low MCAT problem3) consider alternative careers such as PA, LPN, podiatry which would be slightly higher up on the medical totem pole

4)find something non-medically related that you are interested in and do that.

DON'T retake the damn MCAT DON'T go carri and for the love of god DON'T apply to medical school until you improve your GPA (try and get as close as possible to a 3.5 in both sci and cum)

either of these 3 would be a giant waste of your time and money.

good luck dear.
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While a good option, the problem with option 2 is that the OP has shown no signs of being capable of a 4.0.
 
CrimsonKing said:
Some of the people on this thread are ludicrous.

You have done terribly 3 separate times on the MCAT, not even able to get as high as a score as you did on your first try. You also have terrible GPA's.

There's really nothing you can do to raise that GPA, and the likelihood of you doing OK on the MCAT is extremely low. The likelihood of you doing WELL ENOUGH on the MCAT to get into school with your score is so low that it would be a waste of your time and effort.

Instead of getting yourself pumped up thinking you're going to do really well next time and then crashing horribly when you don't, start channeling your energies into pursuing another path that is attainable for you and that will play to your strengths. If you really want to stay in healthcare, go towards podiatry, nursing, or PA school. You will still be an integral person in helping people with their lives, and you will be able to succeed in those fields.

LizzyM gave it to you straight earlier, do something else and you will be much happier that you did.
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I'll say it plain, since pretty much everyone who has posted sees things in black and white only.

The chances that medical school is in the OP's immediate future are low; so low that the OP should pin no hopes on it. Given what is known about the OP, the chances that medical school is in the OP's intermediate future are very low.

What the OP should do now is explore honest interests. Look at possibilities that may or may not be health or science related. Give himself the freedom to really explore what he wants and what gives him satisfaction. Don't be afraid to embrace something. If you go through this exploring, whether that means working, taking more classes that might interest you (in anything)..whatever; and you find something (other than medicine) that you are satisfied with and that gives you fulfillment. Pursue that thing and stop reading this.

If you are still reading because you posted here because you wanted advice on how to get into medical school AND you have genuinely decided that this is something you want to go after, well what is required is not quick or pretty. But it's not impossible. In fact, it would require so much time and effort at this point that it would be asinine to continue on a path toward medicine for any other reason than you genuinely will not be happy ever doing anything else. So if there is something else, it would be wise to do that other thing.

When all these people say "pick something else", What they mean is: if it was them, they can't imagine what it would take to make it happen and they wouldn't be willing to do it. But the OP is also none of these people.

The most feasible way this would happen is to "circle back" around. The OP should essentially, though not entirely, forget about medical school and pursue a viable career in some field that will give as much satisfaction as possible (health related if that applies to the previous clause), all the while learning and performing at outstanding levels. This will keep the most options open. IF the OP can begin to establish a track record of high performance by retaking classes, taking post-bacc classes, getting a master's AND/or PhD (not for medical school...for your career) and then gain some years of experience in the work force and be active in charitable organizations with the power of a financially prosperous working adult, then years from now re-take the MCAT (whatever it looks like) and do well; I refuse to believe that someone wouldn't be taken seriously after having put that kind of distance between themselves and a poor undergrad performance/poor test scores.

I'm not writing any of this as a "dare" or anything like that. I'm not blowing sunshine up your ass either. As it stands the stats are just way too average/poor. Ultimately, only the OP can decide what is best for himself. Like I said above, either you find your other (true) passions and talents and go after something else or you don't. Good Luck in whatever you do.
 
touchpause13 said:
options would be:

1) retaking classes you did poorly in (as in anything lower than a B-) and apply to DO schools that take the best out of each subsection which would put you at a 25, I know Lake Erie does this not sure which other schools. Also apply to new schools and schools with lower averages such as KYCOM, LMU-DCOM, PCOM-Ga, CUCOM, ACOM-basically learn to love the South.

2) try and get into a post-bacc program or do a master's and get a 4.0,this will take time, patience and money but would help with you low GPA/low MCAT problem

3) consider alternative careers such as PA, LPN, podiatry which would be slightly higher up on the medical totem pole

4)find something non-medically related that you are interested in and do that.

DON'T retake the damn MCAT DON'T go carri and for the love of god DON'T apply to medical school until you improve your GPA (try and get as close as possible to a 3.5 in both sci and cum)

either of these 3 would be a giant waste of your time and money.

good luck dear.
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This will take: changing the way you study/learn and working your butt off. I'm not saying he/she is not 4.0 capable, but I think it's safe to say he/she needs to change some things internally to get there. The good thing though, change is possible. If you want to be a 4.0 student, then do it.
 
OP, I think you need to be more honest with yourself. The fact is that there are thousands and thousands of people each year who want to go to medical school. But just because you want something doesn't mean you'll get it or even that you deserve it. In order to get into medical school you need to prove to the admissions committee that you have:

1) the academic aptitude necessary to understand the fast paced and complicated medical school curriculum.
2) the maturity and self control to devote 40+ hours/week to medical school and keep up on the work.
3) the time management and study skills necessary to internalize the information necessary for future standardized exams and residency.

The fact is that your GPAs and MCATs do not show these things and actually hint that you DO NOT possess these skills.

You need to do an honest assessment of WHY your GPA and MCAT scores are so low.

Did you study as hard as you could during UG and for the MCAT but simply could not do better? Did you have big aspirations but could never get yourself to actually study and ended up just "winging it" on exams? Did you spend a lot of time studying but never developed the study skills necessary to internalize the material?

Even though I don't think medical school is a realistic goal for you in the near future, you need to answer these questions and do an honest inventory of your skills and interests before choosing where to go from here.
 
Member 238625 said:
OP here

Thanks for all of the responses, I really was not expecting this much feedback, but I guess my circumstances are so unfortunate and my aspirations are unrealistic at the moment that it brought everyone to share their 2 cents. I appreciate all of the stern and up front answers without sugar coating any of it, so thank you guys for that.

I spoke with my undergrad counselor, and she said to do the following:

-DONT retake the MCAT again this year
-continue applying to the SMPs
-apply to post-bacc programs
-she said it's undesirable, but apply to the Caribbean and/or Israel for foreign medical school (thoughs on that?)
-consider a career as a PA
-I actually looked into Anaesthesiology Assistant as recommended by appleman123, that's actually not a bad alternate career path at all (would you guys recommend AA or PA?)
-apply to some DOs as well
(basically apply to as many programs as financially possible (SMP, DO, post-bacc, Caribbean/Israel) and see what responses I get, and go from there.)

Obviously if I do SMP or post-bacc, I would have to retake the MCAT again, possibly the new post-2015 version, but I would definitely change the way I study for it.

Now I have no leverage or any evidence to suggest that my performance in a masters program might be any different than my 3.3 in undergrad, but I know I can do it because there were a lot of factors that kept me from getting a higher GPA in undergrad, and I have accepted those. I will definitely do better.

Like a few of you already said, if I can show after a few years of working either on my masters, as a PA/AA and I want to go back to medical school (whether it's DO or MD) and I do better on the MCAT, it won't be as difficult because I would have shown that I am capable of that rigorous lifestyle.

So please continue discussing how ridiculous my aspirations are, and I will try to find something positive in the posts and use it as motivation to proceed!
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Don't go to the carribean or Israel. With the other options, go nuts. Good luck.
 
Member 238625 said:
OP here

Thanks for all of the responses, I really was not expecting this much feedback, but I guess my circumstances are so unfortunate and my aspirations are unrealistic at the moment that it brought everyone to share their 2 cents. I appreciate all of the stern and up front answers without sugar coating any of it, so thank you guys for that.

I spoke with my undergrad counselor, and she said to do the following:

-DONT retake the MCAT again this year
-continue applying to the SMPs
-apply to post-bacc programs
-she said it's undesirable, but apply to the Caribbean and/or Israel for foreign medical school (thoughs on that?)
-consider a career as a PA
-I actually looked into Anaesthesiology Assistant as recommended by appleman123, that's actually not a bad alternate career path at all (would you guys recommend AA or PA?)
-apply to some DOs as well
(basically apply to as many programs as financially possible (SMP, DO, post-bacc, Caribbean/Israel) and see what responses I get, and go from there.)

Obviously if I do SMP or post-bacc, I would have to retake the MCAT again, possibly the new post-2015 version, but I would definitely change the way I study for it.

Now I have no leverage or any evidence to suggest that my performance in a masters program might be any different than my 3.3 in undergrad, but I know I can do it because there were a lot of factors that kept me from getting a higher GPA in undergrad, and I have accepted those. I will definitely do better.

Like a few of you already said, if I can show after a few years of working either on my masters, as a PA/AA and I want to go back to medical school (whether it's DO or MD) and I do better on the MCAT, it won't be as difficult because I would have shown that I am capable of that rigorous lifestyle.

So please continue discussing how ridiculous my aspirations are, and I will try to find something positive in the posts and use it as motivation to proceed!
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The way the climate is shifting for medicine says to absolutely not go to the Caribbean or anywhere outside of the US for med school. Even if you managed to get by academically, the chances of getting a residency back here in the US is almost zero, especially a few years down the line as there will be almost no spots open to FMG's/IMG's.

An SMP would help med schools look at your GPA issue, but your MCAT is still in the gutter. Keep in mind that the 2015 MCAT will be a different beast, and none of us can tell you how you would possibly prepare for it.

The choice is yours to make, but I'll tell you what I would do if I were in your shoes.

I would apply to PA school, dominate it, graduate in 2 years, and then go into practice working with physicians. I'd make a solid income while making a difference as a mid-level, and I wouldn't be risking everything to try to make it in a field where most predictors say I would not succeed.

Best of luck in whatever you decide.
 
Member 238625 said:
-she said it's undesirable, but apply to the Caribbean and/or Israel for foreign medical school (thoughs on that?)
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Undesirable? 🙄 You have zero chance of landing in a US residency if you go overseas for medical school.
 
Man you can definitely get into an osteopathic school. If this is what you really want just do it!
 
Member 238625 said:
OP here

Thanks for all of the responses, I really was not expecting this much feedback, but I guess my circumstances are so unfortunate and my aspirations are unrealistic at the moment that it brought everyone to share their 2 cents. I appreciate all of the stern and up front answers without sugar coating any of it, so thank you guys for that.

I spoke with my undergrad counselor, and she said to do the following:

-DONT retake the MCAT again this year
-continue applying to the SMPs
-apply to post-bacc programs
-she said it's undesirable, but apply to the Caribbean and/or Israel for foreign medical school (thoughs on that?)
-consider a career as a PA
-I actually looked into Anaesthesiology Assistant as recommended by appleman123, that's actually not a bad alternate career path at all (would you guys recommend AA or PA?)
-apply to some DOs as well
(basically apply to as many programs as financially possible (SMP, DO, post-bacc, Caribbean/Israel) and see what responses I get, and go from there.)

Obviously if I do SMP or post-bacc, I would have to retake the MCAT again, possibly the new post-2015 version, but I would definitely change the way I study for it.

Now I have no leverage or any evidence to suggest that my performance in a masters program might be any different than my 3.3 in undergrad, but I know I can do it because there were a lot of factors that kept me from getting a higher GPA in undergrad, and I have accepted those. I will definitely do better.

Like a few of you already said, if I can show after a few years of working either on my masters, as a PA/AA and I want to go back to medical school (whether it's DO or MD) and I do better on the MCAT, it won't be as difficult because I would have shown that I am capable of that rigorous lifestyle.

So please continue discussing how ridiculous my aspirations are, and I will try to find something positive in the posts and use it as motivation to proceed!
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The only advantage you may get from going the PA route is that they do not require the MCAT in most cases and this may mean that you will not have to disclose your scores. You will need the GRE I believe.

However, they are still fairly competitive. The MCAT scores and GPAs I have seen for those who publish them are at to slightly below that of DO schools. They also tend to require much more clinical experience prior to admission. The standard volunteering probably wont cut it. However it could be worth a try.

If you really just want healthcare you should look at different types of nursing. I know several people who are at different levels in nursing and are perfectly happy. You won't be the "team leader" that you would be as a physician, but you will get to to a good many similar things.

There is also pharmacy, although this is drastically different than being a healthcare provider (at least in the way I define the term). It's still there and you may have a shot. The averages for admission are significantly lower usually than either MD or DO and they make decent livings.

Finally, there is podiatry which you may be competitive for. Podiatry has some facets that are similar to Medicine, but just restricted to the foot, and sometimes a few things that connect to the foot depending on your state. It is limited in scope, but if you are ok with that you can make a good living doing something similar to what you had already planned.
 
No chance of getting into a US MD program. Do yourself a favor and go into a field completely unrelated to health care.
 
Member 238625 said:
OP again

Would you guys explain why people even go to the Caribbean if there is such a small chance of them getting a residency in the US. Why even bother?
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Because they either have money to spend or want to practice overseas.
 
Member 238625 said:
OP again

Would you guys explain why people even go to the Caribbean if there is such a small chance of them getting a residency in the US. Why even bother?

I'll be applying to whatever I can, and take whatever I get accepted into.

Do you guys know anything (pros/cons) of Physicians Assitants and/or Anesthesiology Assistants?
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Because in the past there was still a small chance of landing a residency stateside; you need to realize that the majority of people who go Caribbean fail out, and those who last still barely get into residency. At the current time, fewer residency spots will go to these schools, so it's even less likely to land them.

PA's are awesome.

I know nothing about Anesthesiology Assistants.
 
Member 238625 said:
OP here

Thanks for all of the responses, I really was not expecting this much feedback, but I guess my circumstances are so unfortunate and my aspirations are unrealistic at the moment that it brought everyone to share their 2 cents. I appreciate all of the stern and up front answers without sugar coating any of it, so thank you guys for that.

I spoke with my undergrad counselor, and she said to do the following:

-DONT retake the MCAT again this year
-continue applying to the SMPs
-apply to post-bacc programs
-she said it's undesirable, but apply to the Caribbean and/or Israel for foreign medical school (thoughs on that?)
-consider a career as a PA
-I actually looked into Anaesthesiology Assistant as recommended by appleman123, that's actually not a bad alternate career path at all (would you guys recommend AA or PA?)
-apply to some DOs as well
(basically apply to as many programs as financially possible (SMP, DO, post-bacc, Caribbean/Israel) and see what responses I get, and go from there.)

Obviously if I do SMP or post-bacc, I would have to retake the MCAT again, possibly the new post-2015 version, but I would definitely change the way I study for it.

Now I have no leverage or any evidence to suggest that my performance in a masters program might be any different than my 3.3 in undergrad, but I know I can do it because there were a lot of factors that kept me from getting a higher GPA in undergrad, and I have accepted those. I will definitely do better.

Like a few of you already said, if I can show after a few years of working either on my masters, as a PA/AA and I want to go back to medical school (whether it's DO or MD) and I do better on the MCAT, it won't be as difficult because I would have shown that I am capable of that rigorous lifestyle.

So please continue discussing how ridiculous my aspirations are, and I will try to find something positive in the posts and use it as motivation to proceed!
Click to expand...

If you are willing to either put in the effort over the next few years and go for the MDO or switch gears and go for PA/AA, I would not apply to a foreign med school. It could be argued that an SMP or extended postbacc would be an expensive risk, but both of those pale in comparison to risking your future medical career in the islands.
You could drop a year's tuition on an SMP and end up with nothing to show for it...but med school would still be a distant possibility (revisited years later). However, if you go carib and succumb to the high attrition rate, you would have a) wasted much more money AND b) pretty much barred yourself from any future US med school admissions (they don't like people who have been accepted to a med school, period). Even if you do make it through, getting a good residency to pay off that debt is going to be a much harder ordeal than it ought to be, and with a lot more riding on it, as you will NEED those dolla dolla bills.

Go big or go home, US MDO or switch gears entirely.
 
Member 238625 said:
OP again

Would you guys explain why people even go to the Caribbean if there is such a small chance of them getting a residency in the US. Why even bother?

I'll be applying to whatever I can, and take whatever I get accepted into.

Do you guys know anything (pros/cons) of Physicians Assitants and/or Anesthesiology Assistants?
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Do you mean CRNA? I wouldnt..... but that is because I forsee physicians eventually winning out in the level-clashes and CRNA is a niche
 
Member 238625 said:
OP again

Would you guys explain why people even go to the Caribbean if there is such a small chance of them getting a residency in the US. Why even bother?
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Because they're misinformed or in denial.

Or they're too lazy to put in the work to get into a US school

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile
 
Member 238625 said:
OP again

Would you guys explain why people even go to the Caribbean if there is such a small chance of them getting a residency in the US. Why even bother?
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a combination of ignorance and desperation

(or they are Canadian or they have tiger parents)
 
Honestly OP, your situation could be much much worse.

If you really want to be a physician more than anything else in the world, DO school can get you there.

I agree that MD school may be out of the question (it might not if you get into an SMP), but you can still be a doctor. DO schools do grade replacement. I say as long as your can get your science GPA above a 3.2 and your cGPA above a 3.3, and if you can score a 26 on the MCAT, you will get into a medical school SOMEWHERE in the US. It might be your last choice DO school, but you will get in somewhere.

And it sounds like your volunteering is up to par too. Get a beast Personal Statement and you can squeak into a med school

I think everyone here is being a negative Nancy pants. Impossible is nothing.
 
Nurse anesthetists are CRNAs, and anesthesiology assistants are a masters level program just like PAs but their practice (and curriculum?) is limited to anesthesia. I guess it's a CRNA alternative that are trained and regulated under the MD umbrella like PAs.

I'd rather go PA for the ability to change departments, plus AAs are liscensed in some states as they're newer and less programs. PAs are in all states, no?
 
Member 238625 said:
OP again

Would you guys explain why people even go to the Caribbean if there is such a small chance of them getting a residency in the US. Why even bother?

I'll be applying to whatever I can, and take whatever I get accepted into.

Do you guys know anything (pros/cons) of Physicians Assitants and/or Anesthesiology Assistants?
Click to expand...

Because to some people, a small chance means they have a shot. As long as it's not 0%, they would jump on that ship.
 
Member 238625 said:
OP again

Would you guys explain why people even go to the Caribbean if there is such a small chance of them getting a residency in the US. Why even bother?

I'll be applying to whatever I can, and take whatever I get accepted into.

Do you guys know anything (pros/cons) of Physicians Assitants and/or Anesthesiology Assistants?
Click to expand...

People who go to Caribbean don't realize that DOs are more respected than Caribbean MDs. They think that if they just get that MD, then they will be seen as the same as a U.S. MD. But it isn't the same and you have to get in line behind ALL the MD grads AND ALL the DO grads for residencies. And the number of residency spots aren't even enough for the MD and DO grads, so Caribbean grads will get last pick if any at all. Not to mention Caribbean schools will kick you out if you show that you may fail the boards, and you have already showed a trend at being a poor test taker. Let's say you do make it, you will once again be competing with everyone for residency spots. How do you think you will perform in that competition considering how you are performing now? Again, you may have to pick from the worst of residencies when you could easily reach the same salary or job satisfaction or greater doing other things like Nurse Anesthetist or PA. Both are viable and rewarding careers. Why do you want to be a physician and what type of doctor do you want to be?
 
ALso OP,

One of the smartest kids I know in my undergrad, got As in Orgo, totally bombed his mcat and got a 20. He is retaking the mcat in hopes of doing better. You are not alone
 
Agent B said:
Undesirable? 🙄 You have zero chance of landing in a US residency if you go overseas for medical school.
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This is false. Look at some family medicine residencies at lesser-known hospitals. Some of them are almost exclusively populated with Caribbean students.

The problem is that all the Caribbean competition is competing for these spots, so if you're not the best in the Caribbean, or basically gunning for a noncompetitive residency, you're screwed.

Is it getting more competitive? Sure, and that rate is only increasing. But the number of people graduating medical school equalling the number of residency positions doesn't mean much, because there're still a significant portion of those people who will do anything but family medicine, including doing years of research.



Member 238625 said:
OP again

Would you guys explain why people even go to the Caribbean if there is such a small chance of them getting a residency in the US. Why even bother?

I'll be applying to whatever I can, and take whatever I get accepted into.

Do you guys know anything (pros/cons) of Physicians Assitants and/or Anesthesiology Assistants?
Click to expand...

Because you have to be the best in the Caribbean to come back, and you basically have to gun for a noncompetitive residency (the ones many MD candidates treat as their backup options).

It's not the worst option if you don't intend to practice in the US. You should look at DO schools first, though, if you're absolutely sure you can hack it.

PA/AA's may be a better bet, but it's not like they aren't competitive positions either.
 
Bearstronaut said:
This is false. Look at some family medicine residencies at lesser-known hospitals. Some of them are almost exclusively populated with Caribbean students.
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In previous generations is was easier to land spots, but those doors are closing. With the increase in number of DO schools and graduates combined with the increasing DO reputation and decreasing Caribbean/foreign reputation, it would be tougher than going DO.
 
He wouldn't be asking if he understood that point. OP, you're not good at test taking, get out of the medical field-- end of story.
 
serenade said:
The OP has a chance. He needs to retake courses and he needs to try hard to make sure he can score better.
But if he seems to be scoring 30s on practice tests and then 23s on the real one, well that's odd and might represent a problem.
You probably have by now a self-defeating attitude and panicked which sank your chances for the 3rd try.
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I agree.

I usually like LizzyM's commentary, but I do not necessarily believe that her words need to be taken as the Gospel -- I mean she works at a top 10-20 medical school, right? If you don't have >3.8 >35 you are decidedly average or maybe even below so. How much can she really know about your chances at a DO school if she automatically rejects students like you routinely.

OP, I know someone personally that got in with a 3.2 and a 24. It was an HBCU and she was a URM. That said, you are definitely not out of the DO game. And your scores expire after three years. They won't know you took it so many times, right?
 
MedPR said:
While a good option, the problem with option 2 is that the OP has shown no signs of being capable of a 4.0.
Click to expand...
True, but this might be a little harsh. Academic turn-around are possible. His GPAs are a little higher than mine where after my sophomore year, and I went on to pull 3.55/3.92/4.0/4.0 over the next 4 terms. Unfortunately for our opie, he is just way farther along than I was and has mad credits.

OP, you gotta evaluate what you want. Take some time man. Don't just hurl applications around like hell and sink a whole bunch of money into it to "see what happens". You aren't a million miles off being a candidate for DO schools but you need to take some time to chill out and figure out what you want. Med school is a bad place for people who aren't sure about it.

If I were in your shoes:
1) I'd stop applying and take some time off.
2) Get a job. Maybe in a hospital or a lab, or maybe just in the real world. Doesn't matter.
3) Get some shadowing in. Docs, PAs, CRNA, RN, DPMs, whoever I can. Really evaluate what each field offers and what it's worth to me.
4) If in the event that I decide I would hate myself forever if I didn't try to get into a medical school, I would move to #5.
5) Take a year with as rigorous a schedule as possible to retake a few classes where you did poorly and bump those GPAs up by grade replacement. You would have to get more or less a 4.0 at this point. But hey, you read #4 and moved on, so balls to the wall now. Retake that MCAT (old ones might even be expired by now) and don't choke.
6) Apply to DO programs assuming a 3.2-3.5 range for both GPAs and at least a 27 MCAT.

You are flailing right now, and it's going to sink you. Retaking the MCAT now is a bad idea. Something is wrong with what you're doing there. Life doesn't just happen and drop you 9-10 points from your diagnostic averages. That is something you are failing to do in the testing room. You will have to evaluate this down the road if you pursue another retake, as it is not an issue that will go away with the MCAT (read: boards).

Cliffs: Take some time, decide what you want, get focused on that goal, then take the steps to get it.

Also, you posted this in the wrong forum OP. Pre-allo is no place for someone in your position. I shouldn't even be here probably :laugh:
 
Silo004 said:
I agree.

I usually like LizzyM's commentary, but I do not necessarily believe that her words need to be taken as the Gospel -- I mean she works at a top 10-20 medical school, right? If you don't have >3.8 >35 you are decidedly average or maybe even below so. How much can she really know about your chances at a DO school if she automatically rejects students like you routinely.

OP, I know someone personally that got in with a 3.2 and a 24. It was an HBCU and she was a URM. That said, you are definitely not out of the DO game. And your scores expire after three years. They won't know you took it so many times, right?
Click to expand...

The scores are still reported, you just have to have 1 new score. You can't hide bad scores. Nice try tho.
 
touchpause13 said:
a combination of ignorance and desperation

(or they are Canadian or they have tiger parents)
Click to expand...

This. Or they rather be an MD over DO and not realize the bigger hurdles they face by going to Carib.

Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201
 
While all the previous posters might discourage you into not following on your path to become a doctor, I want to offer a few words of encouragement and offer some advice.

I was in a similar situation as you.
3.5/3.5 and i took the MCAT and got a 24 and subsequently a 26. However, I enrolled in a SMP and got a 3.88, and most schools in my state know of its rigor. I talked to a few members of the admissions committees at various schools and they all mentioned taking the MCAT again, many of whom said its your most recent score that matters since it is the recent score that shows how much you know NOW instead of how much you knew back then.

There are people on this forum that have taken the MCAT 4 or even 5 times and gotten into an MD school, so it definitely is possible. Dont let other people tell you to follow a Plan B even if it comes from an ADCOM member here.

When there is one aspect of your application lacking, boost the others.
1) get into an SMP and maintain a high GPA. Most schools will give you an auto interview based on a minimum GPA.
2) do more healthcare related activities to show youre still interested in medicine.
3) take the MCAT one more time but make sure youre prepared for it.

If someone is saying that you will not score higher or much higher, then my argument to them is.... whats the down side? if you go down, youll still be where you are. On the flip side, if you score higher, it will help.

Im not posting this to argue with other posters here or say that the ADCOM member that posted is wrong, but if you decide to let the opinions of others sway you away from your goal of becoming a doctor, then the fault lies with you, not them.
 
Arbor Vitae said:
The scores are still reported, you just have to have 1 new score. You can't hide bad scores. Nice try tho.
Click to expand...

So after three years, they still have your scores on file? I didn't think that was true.

EDIT: He's right. Looked it up and scores do not expire. Not accepted /= expired.
 
Last edited:
Silo004 said:
So after three years, they still have your scores on file? I didn't think that was true.
Click to expand...

I have been told they are still there, some schools just don't consider them.

Just like if you did CC classes from 20 years ago, the grades still have to be reported. The schools probably don't care about them but they have to be reported.
 
Silo004 said:
So after three years, they still have your scores on file? I didn't think that was true.

EDIT: He's right. Looked it up and scores do not expire. Not accepted /= expired.
Click to expand...

They are stored in a database and every score you've ever received gets reported every time you submit an AMCAS.
 
SpecterGT260 said:
I never left 😕
Click to expand...

Welcome back though :shrug: Anyhow, I can't respond to your healthcare debates because a medical student's avatar is completely mesmerizing.

Also to bearstronaut, I could be totally mistaken, but I thought by 2019, the door to IMGs is closed.
 
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