Bombed the MCAT after my 3rd try. Need major advice

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Call your school of choice and tell them flat out your scenario. They are the ones who will know. P.S.- sometimes pre-health counselors can give really bad advice, not saying yours did, but just be careful.
 
Retake classes, retake MCAT, apply DO.
 
Member 238625 said:
Do you really think it's worth taking it again for the 4th time?

Would you say doing an SMP is a waste of time?
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Imo you don't have a choice since your second and third score are lower than your first. You have to demonstrate improvement on all fronts.

SMP is a waste of money and I'm not even sure you can get accepted to one with your stats.
 
Member 238625 said:
I've actually ruled out Caribbean at the moment, I'm hoping to do SMP (if I can even get into one with my MCAT scores) then apply again, hoping to have shown improvement with my grad school GPA
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Probably for the best.
 
Member 238625 said:
Part of me thinks I should apply and take my chances with an SMP, but you're right it is a waste of money, and I would need to retake the MCAT afterwards anyway to apply again.

Another part of me says I should take the MCAT again before the new 2015 version so I don't have to worry about all of the new changes. If this were the case, I would have time to retake classes and still do the MCAT before 2015 comes around.
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Whatever you're doing isn't working for the current MCAT. If I were in your position I would be looking forward to the new MCAT because, quite honestly, it can't get much worse in terms of score.

Just retake some classes at state school. Credits are a lot cheaper and it will boost your GPA more than new credits.
 
Member 238625 said:
I graduated from UCLA, if I were to retake classes through UCLA extension, I think it would be a bit expensive, but I would not want to take classes at a Cal State (Long Beach for example). I'll check my other options, but worst case I'll just go back to UCLA and retake those classes
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Why wouldn't you retake classes at CSULB?
 
The sGPA is below avg for DO programs, but the cGPA is fine. If you have any F/D/Cs in science courses, best to re-take for higher grade and AACOMAS grade replacement, which will do wonders for the GPAs.

I graduated in 2012 from a top public university in CA with a 3.3 cGPA, and a 3.0 sGPA. I know, it sucks. I spent most of my time with extracurriculars such as volunteering, campus groups, clinical and lab research (no publications).


I'd say you have reached your plateau of standardized exam skills and demonstration of knowledge. If you do suffer from test taking anxiety, you'd better fix it if you want a career in Medicine. We're addicted to standardized testing in medicine school.


I took the MCAT for the first time my junior year and got a 24 (8V 8P 8B)
The second time was my senior year, and got a 21 (9V 7P 5B)
The third time was a month ago, and I got a 23 (8V 8P 7B)
I was hoping to at least break 30 and apply to SMPs right away (I was scoring 32-34 on the official practice tests). But life just shafted me with a 23.

I talked to a friend and she said it might just be my test day stress that caused me to score low on the test each time, because I was prepared and felt great going in, especially this last time when I was getting around 32-34 on the practice tests


Do NOT retake unless you substantially change how you study and how you take tests!
Magically expecting that your scores will go up will not work.
I suggest trying one application cycle to DO programs. See what shakes out, and get advice from Admissions Deans right now to see if you're comepitive. You might have some luck with the newest schools, but you wouldn't get an interview at mine.

Also apply to SMPs...you'd be an excellent candidate, but I think you problem is with test taking, NOT with your ability to handle medical school.

You're qualified for any Carribean school right now because you're breathing and can write an up-front tuition check. You can do better.
Agree with your counselor that you should also consider alternative careers.

What the hell am I supposed to do?

-Do I retake it for the 4th time sometime in April?
-Do I apply right now to SMPs with my current scores and send in my MCAT from a later date?
-Do I just apply straight to the Caribbean with my 3.3 GPA and 24 on the 2011 MCAT? (would that even get me into the Caribbean?)



follow up

I spoke with my undergrad counselor, and she said to do the following:

-DONT retake the MCAT again this year
-continue applying to the SMPs
-apply to post-bacc programs
-she said it's undesirable, but apply to the Caribbean and/or Israel for foreign medical school (thoughs on that?)
-consider a career as a PA
-I actually looked into Anaesthesiology Assistant as recommended by appleman123, that's actually not a bad alternate career path at all (would you guys recommend AA or PA?)
-apply to some DOs as well
(basically apply to as many programs as financially possible (SMP, DO, post-bacc, Caribbean/Israel) and see what responses I get, and go from there.)


Obviously if I do SMP or post-bacc, I would have to retake the MCAT again, possibly the new post-2015 version, but I would definitely change the way I study for it.





 
Depending on your GPA, EC, and exposure to osteopathic medicine, you probably stand a chance at some of the DO schools.
 
As others have said, retake the classes you didn't do as well in. Do not retake the MCAT for a considerable amount of time. While you're working on these goals, diversify your EC's, volunteering, etc. Definitely overhaul the way you are studying. I highly recommend the princeton review book for general chemistry.

I would stay away from carib/foreign -- there are a lot of threads on the topic right now that I suggest you read. With grade replacement and a better MCAT, you could be a competitive candidate for DO later on in the future. If you are considering an alt career path, ask yourself this: do I really want to commit the time and effort (substantial) to become a physician? If the answer is truly yes, you'll hunker down and get it done.
 
I would say the best route you can take is retake 3 of your lowest graded science courses and take 3 additional upper level bio courses. Study your ass off for the MCAT and retake. Of course, keep doing EC's.
 
Member 238625 said:
OP here

These are my only Cs:

-The second quarter of Calculus (we do quarters, not semesters) 4 units this is the only lower division C
-Physiology (Introduction to principles of systems physiology, including endocrinology, transport physiology, and cardiovascular and pulmonary physiology) 6 units
-Biochemistry 4 units
-Biochemistry Lab (the worst class I've ever taken, I would never take this class) 4 units
-Molecular Biology of Aging 4 units

If I had to pick 3 classes to retake, I would do Biochemistry, Calculus, and one of the others but NOT the biochem lab
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So then you are basically a "B" student with a history of low MCAT scores. You need to retake it.
 
Member 238625 said:
Here's my thought process- tell me if I'm thinking straight.

If I retake the classes or do a post bacc of some sort, it will raise my GPA, yes. But afterwards I have nothing more to show for it than just a slightly higher GPA

If I were to apply to an SMP and somehow get in, and do well in that program, I would show that I am capable of performing under those circumstances, and come out with a Master's Degree.

Would it seem better to schools if I do an SMP and get a high GPA there, or if I just retake classes/do a postbacc and raise my GPA slightly?
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I'm not being sarcastic or anything; this is a serious question. You didn't do well in school (3.3/3.0) or on any of your attempts at the MCAT. You seem sure that you can't do better on the MCAT, but you are sure that you can do well in an SMP that is, without a doubt, more rigorous than anything you've done academically to this point. Why?

You realize that if you tank the SMP you are finished, right?
 
Member 238625 said:
I understand why you would say that, and frankly I have no reason to make you think otherwise. But I did have a lot of things going on in my undergraduate years that had those circumstances been different I would have done better. Honestly I believe I can do much better in an SMP, all I need is a change of environment and to just focus better and manage my time in a more proper way, and get my priorities straight.

That being said, would it still be a better idea to just do a postbacc/grade replacement and reapply, or do an SMP and reapply?
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Gade replacement probably won't help your gpa very much. You might benefit from a rigorous post bacc or SMP, but realize you'll have to be very near a 4.0.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile
 
Look into LECOM's postbac. 3.0 in their program and 23 MCAT (I think) and you're accepted to their medical school.
 
Member 238625 said:
Wait, does that mean I would have to retake the MCAT again and get a >23, or is my current score good enough and all I would need to do is get a 3.0 in their post bacc?
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I would try to contact them and ask what their minimum is; they may have raised it to 24. Also Look into other DO school postbacs/SMPs that have high linkage. Many of them are low-MCAT friendly.
 
OP, apply next cycle for a bunch of programs. PA/AA (might have to take the GRE), DO, SMP, Post-bacc, but NOT international schools. Cast your net and see what kind of responses you get. Hopefully you'll have some options by the end of it. Personally, I'd pick a cheaper post-bacc over an SMP though. Sure it could test your skills and commitment, but it could also be a waste of money that leaves you with less impressive stats (if you get the same or lower grades than your undergrad).

Member 238625 said:
OP here

These are my only Cs:

-The second quarter of Calculus (we do quarters, not semesters) 4 units this is the only lower division C
-Physiology (Introduction to principles of systems physiology, including endocrinology, transport physiology, and cardiovascular and pulmonary physiology) 6 units
-Biochemistry 4 units
-Biochemistry Lab (the worst class I've ever taken, I would never take this class) 4 units
-Molecular Biology of Aging 4 units

If I had to pick 3 classes to retake, I would do Biochemistry, Calculus, and one of the others but NOT the biochem lab
Click to expand...

You need to retake all/most of these. You would need to do it at a place that has the same number of credits or more, but it doesn't have to be at UCLA or anything like that. An SMP would be much more expensive than taking a bunch of classes at a cheaper lower-tier university.

If I were you, I would just look at post-baccs at DO schools, because they would give you the best opportunity in getting into their program.

Member 238625 said:
Here's my thought process- tell me if I'm thinking straight.

If I retake the classes or do a post bacc of some sort, it will raise my GPA, yes. But afterwards I have nothing more to show for it than just a slightly higher GPA

If I were to apply to an SMP and somehow get in, and do well in that program, I would show that I am capable of performing under those circumstances, and come out with a Master's Degree.

Would it seem better to schools if I do an SMP and get a high GPA there, or if I just retake classes/do a postbacc and raise my GPA slightly?
Click to expand...

SMP masters are for the most part useless unless you go to medical school and are usually much more expensive then just taking classes. If you can find a good program (post-bacc or SMP) at a DO school it might be worth it.

Also, double check how much getting As in all of those C classes (minus Biochem lab) would change your GPAs. For me retaking a single C in a science raises my sGPA by ~0.05 and my cGPA by ~0.035, so retaking 4 would mean an increase for me of 0.2 for my sGPA and 0.14 for my cGPA (approximately). I have about 200 credits under my belt. That being said, your GPAs might not increase that much, but be sure to at least calculate it out just to see. A 3.45 cGPA and a 3.2 sGPA with a 23/24 MCAT is definitely a better situation than you're in now, you can do it in 1-2 semesters (even over the summer) and it may get you into a lower tier DO. See if you can fit them in next semester or quarter (whatever you guys have) and over the summer. If you apply DO early, you could update with higher scores early in the app cycle and see if it can really make a difference for you.

Member 238625 said:
Wait, does that mean I would have to retake the MCAT again and get a >23, or is my current score good enough and all I would need to do is get a 3.0 in their post bacc?
Click to expand...

I don't think you would have to retake it, but I would double check with them. I'm not sure about the cutoffs for a LECOM DO interview after that program, but I think you'd get into their post-bacc program with your stats. Plus, its only something like $15,000/yr (which is pretty low for a med school's post-bacc program), and is probably a good option for you.

If you don't do particularly well in the program or if you still can't manage to get into a DO school after it, I would either really buckle down for the MCAT and try one last time or take a look into other professions (AA and PA are really good options). If you really plan to retake the MCAT, you need to reevaluate what's going on. If you are really getting 32-34 averages on the first time you take the practice tests, you need to figure out why you are dropping a whole 10 points on test day. Are you running out of time, not focusing well, etc?

Don't go to the Caribbean/International schools right now (things aren't what they used to be, the outlook is very uncertain).
 
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Member 238625 said:
OP here again

Update: I spoke with my counselor and I'm pretty much resorting to post baccs right now, for 2 reasons:

1) it will improve my GPA once I bust my ass like I should have done it in undergrad
2) it comes with MCAT prep in the spring, something that SMPs won't offer, and I don't want to risk not having enough time to retake before 2015


so from your experiences, if I were to do well in the post bacc (UC Irvine has a 1 year program) and do much better on the MCAT (hopefully with a change of environment and studying technique), would I still have a shot at any MD schools (particularly UCI), or would DO be the safer bet?
Click to expand...

If you can show that radical of an improvement like maybe a 3.8+ for 2 years and then get an MCAT above a 30, then you may have a chance at low-tier MD schools (try to get your GPA & MCAT as close to the averages for applicants). You will need to apply to DO schools no matter what.

I think it is for the best to apply to post-bacc programs because SMPs are like the "kiss of death" if you don't do well in them.
 
Member 238625 said:
Wait, does that mean I would have to retake the MCAT again and get a >23, or is my current score good enough and all I would need to do is get a 3.0 in their post bacc?
Click to expand...

You won't have to retake the mcat...
 
A word of encouragement, you have the most difficult portion licked (verbal). Take a course and get ready for MCAT again. Also go DO and you will never regret it. Pre med counselors come in different flavor, some are good and some are awful.
 
Midifelder10 said:
A word of encouragement, you have the most difficult portion licked (verbal). Take a course and get ready for MCAT again. Also go DO and you will never regret it. Pre med counselors come in different flavor, some are good and some are awful.
Click to expand...

😕😕 OP got 8, 9, and 8 on VR.
 
Member 238625 said:
Hey guys, I'm new here. I'll cut right to the chase. I posted this same question in the MD forum and most recommended I go for a DO.

Here's what I said-

I graduated in 2012 from a top public university in CA with a 3.3 cGPA, and a 3.0 sGPA. I know, it sucks. I spent most of my time with extracurriculars such as volunteering, campus groups, clinical and lab research (no publications).

I took the MCAT for the first time my junior year and got a 24 (8V 8P 8B)
The second time was my senior year, and got a 21 (9V 7P 5B)
The third time was a month ago, and I got a 23 (8V 8P 7B)
I was hoping to at least break 30 and apply to SMPs right away (I was scoring 32-34 on the official practice tests). But life just shafted me with a 23.

I talked to a friend and she said it might just be my test day stress that caused me to score low on the test each time, because I was prepared and felt great going in, especially this last time when I was getting around 32-34 on the practice tests


What the hell am I supposed to do?

-Do I retake it for the 4th time sometime in April?
-Do I apply right now to SMPs with my current scores and send in my MCAT from a later date?
-Do I just apply straight to the Caribbean with my 3.3 GPA and 24 on the 2011 MCAT? (would that even get me into the Caribbean?)



follow up

I spoke with my undergrad counselor, and she said to do the following:

-DONT retake the MCAT again this year
-continue applying to the SMPs
-apply to post-bacc programs
-she said it's undesirable, but apply to the Caribbean and/or Israel for foreign medical school (thoughs on that?)
-consider a career as a PA
-I actually looked into Anaesthesiology Assistant as recommended by appleman123, that's actually not a bad alternate career path at all (would you guys recommend AA or PA?)
-apply to some DOs as well
(basically apply to as many programs as financially possible (SMP, DO, post-bacc, Caribbean/Israel) and see what responses I get, and go from there.)


Obviously if I do SMP or post-bacc, I would have to retake the MCAT again, possibly the new post-2015 version, but I would definitely change the way I study for it.

Now I have no leverage or any evidence to suggest that my performance in a masters program might be any different than my 3.3 in undergrad, but I know I can do it because there were a lot of factors that kept me from getting a higher GPA in undergrad, and I have accepted those. I will definitely do better.


Thanks in advance for all the input!
Click to expand...

I recently went to the pre health committee letter interview and they said that even taking the MCAT more than once looks bad and you should not take it more than twice. I would recommend retaking some classes or doing a postbac program. If you do well, I bet you could get in with a 24 somewhere. The statistics are out there and it is possible.
 
Colorado1989 said:
I recently went to the pre health committee letter interview and they said that even taking the MCAT more than once looks bad and you should not take it more than twice. I would recommend retaking some classes or doing a postbac program. If you do well, I bet you could get in with a 24 somewhere. The statistics are out there and it is possible.
Click to expand...

This is an exaggeration. I know at least 3 people who retook the test and got into top tier California MD schools. As long as you show significant improvement, I don't think retake is a bad thing. Taking the exam more than 3 times, however, is something else.
 
Member 238625 said:
OP here again

Update: I spoke with my counselor and I'm pretty much resorting to post baccs right now, for 2 reasons:

1) it will improve my GPA once I bust my ass like I should have done it in undergrad
2) it comes with MCAT prep in the spring, something that SMPs won't offer, and I don't want to risk not having enough time to retake before 2015


so from your experiences, if I were to do well in the post bacc (UC Irvine has a 1 year program) and do much better on the MCAT (hopefully with a change of environment and studying technique), would I still have a shot at any MD schools (particularly UCI), or would DO be the safer bet?
Click to expand...

First, I'm a little sad to hear you say you're "restoring to post bacc"...since these programs can be quite rigorous. But to each his/her own I guess.

I'm not sure of your background or how much research you've done about post-bacc programs, but I'm just letting you know that the UC post-bacc programs are very difficult to get into. Each UC that has a post-bacc program accepts a small cohort of students that are typically URM or have some sort of unique story for doing a post-bacc. I've met and spoken with three students from the UCI post-bacc, and they were all very deserving of their spots due to personal hardships.

You had mentioned previously wanting to stay away from the Cal States...but I wouldn't count it out so quickly if you're desperate. CSULA and CSU East Bay both have post-bacc programs ("academic enhancer"-type programs) that might be slightly easier to get into (SFSU is a bit more difficult). Both CSULA and CSUEB will give you the chance to re-take classes and take new upper division science coursework. I'm at CSUEB and the professors have been really great, but of course everyone is working their butts off to get A's and it's no walk in the park. The CSULA program offers MCAT-prep class, but I think only if you get into their special track program.

Also, if you think the CSU's will be "easier"...that can't be father from the truth as these programs have students from UCLA, UC Berkeley, UCSD, UCI, and many other top universities (i.e. the competition for A's can be downright intense). The tuition is a bit high since we're paying per-unit fees, but nothing compared to an SMP I'm sure. With CSULA and CSUEB you would have "guaranteed" classes (none of this Open University limbo) and CSUEB has a committee letter if you complete the certificate (unsure about CSULA).

There's also UCLA extension, UC Berkeley Extension, and Access UCI (through UCI Extension) if you'd rather for whatever reason stick to the UCs. UCSD has a post-bacc program as well, but I'm not as familiar with it (I'm assuming it's competitive).
 
OP...keep looking into DO SMPs that have high linkage like LECOM's
 
My stats weren't great either, but I applied early, and it worked for me.
I am in an SMP right now, and plan on starting at a DO school this August.
PM if you want more advice.
 
medfreak1290 said:
My stats weren't great either, but I applied early, and it worked for me.
I am in an SMP right now, and plan on starting at a DO school this August.
PM if you want more advice.
Click to expand...

you have a 3.7/3.6/25....not even remotely comparable to the OP's 3.3/3.0/24
 
OP, You may consider just applying this session. Most DO schools take the highest of your MCAT scores and a 24 is nothing to be sad about. I was accepted and had a few interviews and I had a 24 (9V, 7P, 8B), 3.45 cGPA, 3.2 sGPA. I applied very broadly (15 Primary, 10 secondaries, 3 ii) and had ALOT of extracurriculars through all 4 years. With research experience, volunteering and unique extracurriculars you may still have a shot for 2014. However, like has been said, if you don't drastically change your studying then you won't improve your MCAT. I took it twice and got the same score, but with P and V switched. My advice for you would be get your hands on as many practice tests as you can and just do them as much as possible if you're going to retake. Best of luck to you!
 
I have felt your pain. I am working on a master's degree, and I would highly recommend this. Osteopathic schools look favorably on this even if your other stats are on the lower end. I've had 4 interviews this year - 3 acceptances and 1 wait list spot due to the class being full. If this is what you really want and you know that being a physician is your calling don't give up. This was my 3rd application. I was wait listed the previous 2 years. PM me if you want more details.
 
Art Vandele said:
OP, You may consider just applying this session. Most DO schools take the highest of your MCAT scores and a 24 is nothing to be sad about. I was accepted and had a few interviews and I had a 24 (9V, 7P, 8B), 3.45 cGPA, 3.2 sGPA. I applied very broadly (15 Primary, 10 secondaries, 3 ii) and had ALOT of extracurriculars through all 4 years. With research experience, volunteering and unique extracurriculars you may still have a shot for 2014. However, like has been said, if you don't drastically change your studying then you won't improve your MCAT. I took it twice and got the same score, but with P and V switched. My advice for you would be get your hands on as many practice tests as you can and just do them as much as possible if you're going to retake. Best of luck to you!
Click to expand...

Best advice for OP thus far. I agree that he should definitely try applying as is, and that he probably does have a better shot than we think. TBH 3.0/3.0/23 does indeed seem to be around where competitiveness for DO begins.
 
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OP, apply broadly this cycle, but you're really looking at podiatry at this point.
 
user3, I've followed some of your posts. You always seem to be a bit more optimistic than most. What's your basis for that?
 
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