Bottom Line - Input from Those Practicing Please

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I attended an interview for a clinical Ph.D. program last week and ate lunch with two 3rd years.

Both seemed very unhappy.

One was clinically oriented and was lamenting all the time she spent on research. The other was research oriented and hated her clinical practicum. Both felt that they *had* to get a clinical Ph.D. because it was the "most versatile." I am a nontraditional student and have been out in the world for a bit, so I guess I don't think about the sensitivities of grad students to questions, but I asked the clinically oriented person what she thought about the argument that she did not need a clinical Ph.D at all or what were her thoughts in PsyDs. She freaked. She had moved to a state and a town she hated to study something that she didn't feel was relevant was the jist that I got. It scared the crap out of me.

I am not really in to wasting any more time doing things that I don't want to do. In clinical psych, eventually I would like to treat patients in private practice primarily because I don't like working for others and I would like to volunteer and use my law degree and psych training in domestic violence matters, etc. I would like to teach as an adjunct but not tenure.

I am beginning to think that a PsyD from good school (not professional school) or clinically oriented counseling PhD or hybrid clinical PhD all that are much more on the clinical side would be better idea than a traditional clinical Ph.D. I think that the schools are giving primarily clinically oriented students a message - you do have to do research and it will take up a lot of your time.

I am interested in hearing from those practicing what your thoughts are. I am sure you have addressed this before but still finding it hard to get targeted search results using the search function.

Feel free to PM me also.

 

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Thanks in advance.

 

[terrybug]

I think that based on your goals, a PsyD does sound like it would be a better fit for you. The catch is finding a program you like that isn't part of a professional school. I think this narrows the field down to only a handful of places.
So, I guess your next step is to have lunch with a few 3rd year PsyD students and see what their moods are like. I'd be interested to know what they had to say about their programs.

 

[WaitingKills]

I agree with Terrybug. It sounds like a psyd or counselling psych Ph.d would be more suited to your goals.

 

[psychwanabe]

I have to agree with Jon. Choosing the right program is the key to increasing the chances that you will be happy by the time you are a third year. These three people may have been looking more for funding than for fit, and are not representative of the whole graduate population.

I know of someone who accepted a Clinical Ph.D. spot and then was disgusted by the fact that she was expected to do research! Of course, you have to match with a professor on research interests, and if you apply to a program that is heavy into research (this one was) it should be no surprise that you are expected to participate. If a student does not want that, of course they will be unhappy.

The important thing is to find the professor that matches your research interests and the program that matches your desire for a heavy clinical focus. There are Ph.D. programs out there that do that.

I don't agree, however, that there are "only three" good Psy.D. programs in the country. Just do your research, look for good matches for yourself, and good stats for the program to which you apply.

Good luck!

 

[NYCPsych]

OK, so n was small & results were generalized. 😛

Maybe you should try stratified random samples of PsyDs & PhDs. Ideally, to get a good feel for people's appraisals of programs, do a longitudinal study, starting at psych undergrads & ending when they're practicing psychologists.

kidding... kidding... Lots of luck, & I am a big supporter of the PsyD (sorry to make fun of you, research fanatics 😛) AND of both strong PsyD programs & self-motivation. i also think it's really admirable to do a career change like this!

 

[ShrinkJamie]

I, too, disagree that there are "only three" good PsyD schools. That's absurd! I am currently finishing my PsyD from an APA-accredited program, and my education has been phenomenal. I have been in private practice as a masters-level clinician for three years....all of my clients are cash clients, and my practice is full. It CAN be done, you just have to ignore all of the naysayers. Go with your gut on this one. PsyD programs are great if you want to mostly be clinical. Good luck to you!

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Thanks for the input Jamie!

-t

 

[NeuroPhD]

I attended an interview for a clinical Ph.D. program last week and ate lunch with two 3rd years.

Both seemed very unhappy.

I wouldn't use a student's happiness during training as a good indicator of a program. You would be much better off talking with recent graduates and people who are already working in the field.

Graduate training is extremely challenging. It is rare for people to be "happy" in a PhD program (in my experience). Working 75 hours/week with no end in sight and little reward pushes everyone to their limit. If it were easy, far more people would do it.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Working 75 hours/week with no end in sight and little reward pushes everyone to their limit. If it were easy, far more people would do it.

Just when I thought I forgot that....you remind me. 🙁

In all seriousness, Neuro has a point about getting people 'in the moment'. It can be helpful with figuring out the workload and things like that, but it is harder to get an overall idea of a program because they are still in the moment. I know in my experience I have some days where I feel overwhelmed (typically when more research is due! ), but then I realize I still love what I do....I just wish it was more evenly spread out. At this point in my life (after trying a few different things already), I can't picture myself doing anything else.

-t

 

[Ollie123]

I think it depends on the students.
Everyone makes it clear its hard work, but I only know of a few who aren't happy. Most of the grad students I know are quite happy with their lives. Sure, sometimes its stressful, but usually if you directly ask them about it they can take a step back and be objective about their experiences.