Breaking a Contract

[rocephinandchill]

Hello all,

Getting ready to start my 3rd year of residency and unsure what to do. I signed a contract with TH at the end of my 1st year and have been receiving a stipend as a sign-on. The contract is near family back home but is HCA. There is another hospital equally close to family that I wanted from the start but had no job availability anytime I have reached out in the past but now they are saying they want to extend an interview. They are W2, non-profit, fully scribed amongst other benefits and much cheaper COL in the town itself.

Have I screwed myself from considering this job because of the other contract? It doesn’t have a non-compete but I don’t want to burn bridges. I would even do PRN at the first place but the 2nd hospital would likely be such a better fit for my full time gig (I worked there in another role years prior so am familiar with its vibe). I have saved the stipend so can return without issue. Any advice or experiences welcome.

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[cyanide12345678]

Once you have the second job, then see if they will extend you a sign on that you can use to pay back Team health.

If you cancel the team contract, it’s not going to be a big deal as long as you have a reasonable reason. You have to look out for what’s best for you, that’s all. Though if you switched to prn with them, you definitely would not be burning any bridges, they would just ask for their sign on funds back.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

Really smart of you that you saved the stipend instesd of blowing it stupidly. Good job.

They won't be mad. Just be professional and courteous.

 

[PianoMedic]

Agree with above. Get the job offer first. No harm in interviewing at all. What is your contract with TH for on an hours per month basis? If I recall correctly, TH is usually 1099. So you’re an independent contractor anyway and can tell them how many hours and when you’re available for shifts. If you aren’t contracted for a certain amount of hours or for “full time” in the contract, you may not even need to tell them anything (provided it is a 1099 contract and not an employed W-2 contract). When they ask for the hours available to schedule coming up, give them the prn hours. Now, if their expectation is for you to be full time and you give them 1-4 shifts of availability per month, that’ll be very incongruous and could burn bridges. So if that’s the expectation, even if not delineated in the contract and you don’t want to burn bridges, then giving them a courteous heads up that you have a site that is a better fit for full time for you and you’ll stay on prn should maintain a good relationship. Either way, keep the sign on bonus still in cash or easily available and then if TH asks for it back, you can give it back easily. Only tell them about this other gig after you have an offer letter from that other gig in hand that you intend to sign. Wait until any negotiating on that other contract is over before discussing any of it with TH.

Flipping back from nights so sorry for the rambling, hope that makes sense.

 

[rocephinandchill]

Agree with above. Get the job offer first. No harm in interviewing at all. What is your contract with TH for on an hours per month basis? If I recall correctly, TH is usually 1099. So you’re an independent contractor anyway and can tell them how many hours and when you’re available for shifts. If you aren’t contracted for a certain amount of hours or for “full time” in the contract, you may not even need to tell them anything (provided it is a 1099 contract and not an employed W-2 contract). When they ask for the hours available to schedule coming up, give them the prn hours. Now, if their expectation is for you to be full time and you give them 1-4 shifts of availability per month, that’ll be very incongruous and could burn bridges. So if that’s the expectation, even if not delineated in the contract and you don’t want to burn bridges, then giving them a courteous heads up that you have a site that is a better fit for full time for you and you’ll stay on prn should maintain a good relationship. Either way, keep the sign on bonus still in cash or easily available and then if TH asks for it back, you can give it back easily. Only tell them about this other gig after you have an offer letter from that other gig in hand that you intend to sign. Wait until any negotiating on that other contract is over before discussing any of it with TH.

Flipping back from nights so sorry for the rambling, hope that makes sense.

The contract is indeed 1099 full time at 120 hours, so would not be able to keep this contract if I work at the new place. My main concern is not burning a bridge with TH in case I want to work for them in the future. With my student loan debt and the significantly more affordable area (like $200k difference in houses though 1 hour away from each other) those are my biggest factors, along with it being the closest to family/aging parents. I haven’t totally ruled out having kids so I feel like W2 would also be more favorable for a maternity leave. The pay is otherwise comparable given the difference in tax burden.

 

[NYEMMED]

You will need to give them back the sign on, which smartly you saved.

It will burn a bridge and you will likely not get hired at that site again.

Do what is best for you

 

[wareagle726]

You will need to give them back the sign on, which smartly you saved.

It will burn a bridge and you will likely not get hired at that site again.

Do what is best for you

I may not be so quick to say it's a bridge burned. Especially in this day with TH. They are pretty short staffed some places and don't really have the luxury of blackballing for minimal reasons. I would think something like this where you have no problem paying back and could even go PRN wouldn't really be a big deal for them. If it is, oh well. Sounds like job 2 is a pretty sweet gig. Much sweeter than working for the machine.

 

[miacomet]

I may not be so quick to say it's a bridge burned. Especially in this day with TH. They are pretty short staffed some places and don't really have the luxury of blackballing for minimal reasons. I would think something like this where you have no problem paying back and could even go PRN wouldn't really be a big deal for them. If it is, oh well. Sounds like job 2 is a pretty sweet gig. Much sweeter than working for the machine.

Agreed, I'm just not seeing this oversupply of EM docs right now. I'm sure it's coming, but it's not here for summer 2023, that's for sure.

 

[miacomet]

The contract is indeed 1099 full time at 120 hours, so would not be able to keep this contract if I work at the new place. My main concern is not burning a bridge with TH in case I want to work for them in the future. With my student loan debt and the significantly more affordable area (like $200k difference in houses though 1 hour away from each other) those are my biggest factors, along with it being the closest to family/aging parents. I haven’t totally ruled out having kids so I feel like W2 would also be more favorable for a maternity leave. The pay is otherwise comparable given the difference in tax burden.

Just also have to note that if you are 1099 they can't really demand a certain number of hours, not that this helps with bridge burning or not

 

[Arcan57]

You will need to give them back the sign on, which smartly you saved.

It will burn a bridge and you will likely not get hired at that site again.

Do what is best for you

Back in the day Team fired a doc for reading War and Peace on shift instead of seeing patients. Paid him 2 months severance to expedite him not working there ever again. A couple of years and one corporate re-organizing later, Team rehired him for the same system. Fired him a couple of months later, although I think he only got the rest of the month's salary as severance that time.

 

[Groove]

As others have said, there's nothing wrong with interviewing. At the end of the day, take the best job.

All that being said, I would extricate myself from the TH contract with extreme care. That's not a company that you want to black ball you. That's probably the largest CMG in the country holding innumerable ED contracts. You want them to have plenty of time to find a replacement for your position.

Kudos for not spending your sign on. That's remarkable.'

If it makes you feel better, I signed a contract for a SDG my last year and backed out to take a CMG job closer to home. I gave them plenty of time to find a replacement (longer than my termination clause) but it probably put them in a little bit of a bind and I wish I could say that phone conversation went well....because it didn't. They were pretty pissed but hey...at the end of the day you've got to do what's in your best interest.

 

[bravotwozero]

I signed with envision, but got hired by SCP like 2 months after starting. I talked to my medical director about it at envision, he was pretty understanding, though asked me to honor the out clause in the contract, which I did. I’m still with envision on a prn basis, and the setup has worked well for me.

 

[dchristismi]

How can I get blackballed by Envision? I just got ANOTHER text from a recruiter...

"Emergency Medicine Physician needed at multiple sites to start as soon as credentialled.
Schedule: 12 hours 7a-7p and 7p-7a
No call
Weekend: Yes
104 APP hours per month
ED pts per hour: 2
Charting: Meditech"

I texted back that "texting an unsolicited, unwanted and likely awful HCA-affiliated job is not the way to win friends or referrals. Smells like Envision, and I will NEVER work for them again."

She texted back "It is Envision."

I'm like, seriously? How can I make you never contact me again??? Uggg... aside from the fact that you're randomly texting me but really? 12 hour shifts, WTH does 104 APP hours per month even mean? There are a few sprinkled midlevels here and there? I should hope no call. Sheesh. But that sounds absolutely awful. And didn't Envision just declare bankruptcy? Oh, no wait, they "reorganized." Yeah, whatever. Go away.

 

[miacomet]

How can I get blackballed by Envision? I just got ANOTHER text from a recruiter...

"Emergency Medicine Physician needed at multiple sites to start as soon as credentialled.
Schedule: 12 hours 7a-7p and 7p-7a
No call
Weekend: Yes
104 APP hours per month
ED pts per hour: 2
Charting: Meditech"

I texted back that "texting an unsolicited, unwanted and likely awful HCA-affiliated job is not the way to win friends or referrals. Smells like Envision, and I will NEVER work for them again."

She texted back "It is Envision."

I'm like, seriously? How can I make you never contact me again??? Uggg... aside from the fact that you're randomly texting me but really? 12 hour shifts, WTH does 104 APP hours per month even mean? There are a few sprinkled midlevels here and there? I should hope no call. Sheesh. But that sounds absolutely awful. And didn't Envision just declare bankruptcy? Oh, no wait, they "reorganized." Yeah, whatever. Go away.

I agree, while it's pretty easy to get blackballed from SDGs, and even certain states, it's pretty impossible to get blackballed by TH/Envision etc. No one wants these jobs. Not you. Not me. Not anyone.

And lol "104 APP hours a month" like is that 4 hours a day? Dying to know the volume, bet it's 20-30k plus. Best of luck, suckahs.

 

[RustedFox]

How can I get blackballed by Envision? I just got ANOTHER text from a recruiter...

"Emergency Medicine Physician needed at multiple sites to start as soon as credentialled.
Schedule: 12 hours 7a-7p and 7p-7a
No call
Weekend: Yes
104 APP hours per month
ED pts per hour: 2
Charting: Meditech"

I texted back that "texting an unsolicited, unwanted and likely awful HCA-affiliated job is not the way to win friends or referrals. Smells like Envision, and I will NEVER work for them again."

She texted back "It is Envision."

I'm like, seriously? How can I make you never contact me again??? Uggg... aside from the fact that you're randomly texting me but really? 12 hour shifts, WTH does 104 APP hours per month even mean? There are a few sprinkled midlevels here and there? I should hope no call. Sheesh. But that sounds absolutely awful. And didn't Envision just declare bankruptcy? Oh, no wait, they "reorganized." Yeah, whatever. Go away.

1.) What a burn.
2.) APP hours are likely of variable durations on weekdays/weekends