bs/md GW

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baller2008

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hello
I am a high school student. I have gotten in St. Bonaventure and George Washington bs/md program. However, I have also gotten in other highly regarded undergrad schools. So, I'm just wondering what your opinion is on it. I am sure that I want to be a doctor, but do you think the combined program is a good choice? St. Bonaventure is not a good University and, even though, I love George Washington, it is not ranked too high for medical schools. Why?

Also, will it be hard for me to be placed in competitive residencies coming out of George Washington?
thanks
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Take the degrees and run. You cannot beat a guaranteed admission and you'll be fine coming out of GW in terms of residency placement.

Save yourself the emotional roller coaster that is the application process to medical school.
 
noskill are you a med school student?
what about my undergrad? the school is not so good?
Can you explain why GW is not ranked good? like how good is GW SOM??? whats its reputation?
thanks for the fast reply
 
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oh and other advises will be greatly appreciated thanks
 
baller2008 said:
noskill are you a med school student?
what about my undergrad? the school is not so good?
Can you explain why GW is not ranked good? like how good is GW SOM??? whats its reputation?
thanks for the fast reply
Click to expand...

GW is a fine school. Medical school "rankings" are to be taken with a grain of salt. The methodology that goes into them is pretty subjective and even a bit randomized, and so their relevance to a student (or anything, for that matter) is usually pretty marginal. Plus, accredation is so strict all medical schools offer very high quality training. GW has an excellent hospital and the institution is well known in the health policy arena. So long as you do well enough on your board exams, do well clinically etc., you should have no problem with a competitive residency.

So I say take the BS/MD program, that's what I would do. It seems as though you really like it there anyways right?
 
Rooter76 thanks for the reply Are you in med school? where do you go? yea i really like GW however the undergrad is not at its level, or at least at the level of other schools that I got into. So, I guess the question comes down to whether you think that getting in bs/md is worth going to an undergrad that is not that good/well known.
 
If you are positive that you want to do medicine (as you should be entering a BS/MD program), then it really doesn't matter where you do your undergraduate. I have a friend at GW who has shown me their "unofficial" match list and it is much more impressive than I had anticipated.
 
noskill said:
If you are positive that you want to do medicine (as you should be entering a BS/MD program), then it really doesn't matter where you do your undergraduate. I have a friend at GW who has shown me their "unofficial" match list and it is much more impressive than I had anticipated.
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Alright so here's what I think. I did a BS/MD program through VCU/MCV so I can tell you a little about my experience.

You are obviously talented to have gotten into a BS/MD program coming out of high school.

Pros:
1. Reassurance that you are going to med school given you fulfill the bare bone minimum requirements.
2. Devote your time to something other than school (this is crap and I'll explain)
3. I guess the special status that you have.

Cons:
1. You're going to be sooooo jaded by the fact that you're already in GW that you don't want to go there!
2. You're going to apply out and take the MCATs anyway! I hope you're ambitious enough to do that! Now if you're going to apply out and even if you have a 4.0...you went to a small ugrad that's little known so you're going to run into major road blocks here (look at my mdapps).
3. GW hospital is good (I heard) but med-ed isn't as superb as some other schools (I heard). GW is also expensive for what it offers. Do you have a better state school for cheaper?

BS/MD is great for those that know they are going to be satisfied with the med school you've already been admitted. For me, it wasn't enough so I went out there and went through the traditional process anyway. Given, it was lower stress because worst comes to worst, I'm going to MCV.
 
Go to France and spend a year studying literature in Paris. Drink wine at the cafes of Paris and flirt shamelessly with the French girls. You will not regret it.
 
vicinihil,
your post was very informative. Glad that I got info from a person that is also in a bs/md program.
If I get really good grade at an unknown undergrad and with good mcat will I still get in a good med school?
thanks
 
could someone explain why med schools have bs/md programs?
 
A friend of mine went to St. Bonaventure on a full tennis scholarship. It's a small school, but he had great things to say about his experience there. And I hear that the school has a pretty good college social scene.

As for GW, I interviewed there. They have got pretty good facilities. The GW Medical Center is also very nice. The med school also has lots of oppurtunities to pursue public health, health policy, urban health, and global health - given that the school is right in the heart of DC. But it is definitely an expensive school (i.e. $70,000 per year of total costs).....
 
Baller, the answer is...look at my mdapps.

In my program, two other VERY qualified applicants applied and we got wailisted at schools that gave us interviews and VERY positive responses along the lines of: What can we say for you to come here? or You're a perfect match for our program. However, when the admission committee meets, XXX University??? Waitlist! This is not to say you WON'T get into a good med school. My friends respectively got into Northwestern and Vanderbilt and I got into UVA, however...we also interviewed at NYU, Cornell, Hopkins, Harvard, Stanford, Pitt to name a few. I should hope to say that with our credentials, coming out of a more prestigious undergrad would have granted us many more interviews and acceptances.

So in essence, your high gpa at a school NOT known for its academic rigor WILL hinder you.

To respond to Taponthecloud...schools have bs/md programs to boost their undergrad for the most part. Of course there are exceptions such as Rice, Brown, WashUSTL. However many schools like GW, BU, VCU most high power students wouldn't think to take a second look unless they were lured in by the bs/md programs.
 
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Just as a disclaimer:

I am not bashing any bs/md programs or their very nature. It's been a privilege to have had such an honor and relatively stress free ugrad and still know I'd get into med school. Many of my buddies ARE staying at the medical school in which we were all admitted coming out of high school because they are satisfied.

If you want to have this calm sense of relief that you don't need to compete if you don't want to, then yes GW is an awesome program. However, if you definitely wish to apply else where for med school, then I would carefully consider the pros and cons.
 
guys! thanks for all the responses they definitely helped a lot and clarified a great deal. I will take a few more days thinking about this... in the mean time if anybody else has any opinions on this please tell me! thanks!
 
I agree 100% with vicinihil.

This is the exact same thing that happened to me. I turned down some great schools to go to a bs/md program at a fourth tier school. After working hard and doing very well, I chose to apply out. I was accepted at 4 of the programs I interviewed at, and rejected/waitlisted at 3, all of which were incidentally in the top 10.

Of course there are many factors at play here, and I'm not saying I necessarily 'deserved' to be accepted at all these places. I'm just giving the facts and saying that I feel like the biggest negative factor (in the adcom's eyes) was having gone to X unknown school.

That said, GWU isn't a school where this would happen. Its a fairly well known and respected school, definitely higher than VCU and my school in us news rankings. So even if you decide to apply out, you should do well in the process, as long as you worked hard along the way.


So:

If you are happy with knowing that you're going to be a doctor, and you just want to kick it now, do other things, and get by, then that is fine and you should go to GW.

If you're the type of person that will still work hard, do well, and pursue great experiences anyway (which its likely that you are, considering all these acceptances) you should decline the bs/md program, and go to one of those other top schools you were accepted at. If you continue along your current trend of accomplishments, its pretty much guaranteed that you will be accepted to med school eventually anyway.
 
chinny5187
the program that I got in is affilated St. Bonaventure with GW. So I go to SBU undergrad for 4 years and then GW. So, in a way, I will be going to an unknown school for 4 years before possibly applying out.


vicinihil and chinny5187
what are both your views on GW? do you think it will keep me satisfied as a med student? (I want to go in surgery, opthalmology...etc or maybe dermotology if i feel ambitious)
I also want to probably have residency in California.


Oh, and when matching do specialty come first or location of the residency?

Thank you both!
 
I think the ugrad is that St. something school..the grad school is GW. Given that...figure out what you want more: Kick back now, or struggle and be proud of getting into an awesome med school later.
 
vicinihil do you regret your decision going to bs/md?
if you were to do it again would you do it? what if you were in my position?

Right now i am leaning toward going to the program because I have heard many horrible premed stories. lol
 
You're thinking too far ahead. All medical schools will give you a great round-about view on medicine and give you exposure to everything. That said, if you examine other posts (check out the one about the new US News Rankings) people have generally said the top three things were: Location/Price/Curriculum. I don't know much about GWU so I can't begin to tell you how they fare. I know that the first thing residency directors look at is your Step I score, then your 3rd year clerkship grades and at the very bottom your medical school name....I work for a guy that determines Anasthesia Residencies here in Boston.

Residency in Cali isn't hard to get due to the number of hospitals. It depends what specialty. If you want Fam Med, I'm sure that's not a problem anywhere. If you want Derm, that's a problem everywhere.

Going to a better med school determines the exposure you will get. You want Emergency Med??? Nebraska might not be the place to go. Stuff like that.
 
Yes because mine was free and worst comes to worst, I'm still going to a good med school which I'm satisfied with.

Also to add...I think it depends on who you are. I have friends in the program that I'm like...wtfff how did you get into med school. And if they weren't in the program, they never would've gotten into med school. Others I think could've done better had they gone to a more prestigious undergrad filled with more opportunities.

Premed is a struggle, no doubt. It prepares you for the roads ahead.
 
woops

sorry, guess i didn't read carefully, i didn't realize the ugrad was at SBU. if i were you i would probably not take up the bs/md program then.

i had heard those pre-med horror stories when i was making my decision too and that is partially why i ended up taking the bs/md program up. i don't regret my decision - i've had a great time, learned much, made great friends, and i'm going to a great med school - but i do regret makign the decision based partially on those stories. pay close attention to who is telling them and whether you feel the stories apply to you too.

you will get a great medical education at any accredited US med school. you can match into any residency (but not necessarily at any institution) on graduating from any of these school. it largely depends on how hard you work/how well you do.

my cousin graduated from GWU SOM and matched into radiology (one of the tougher specialties) at a great radiology program. hes about done now; hes going to do a fellowship and is set to be very successful. i know some of his friends who graduated from GWU SOM too. They are really cool people, and I believe one is at cleveland clinic and one is at yale (and one in plastic surgery somewhere, i think).
 
BS/MD program is great if you find that you don't want to worry about getting into med sch and especially if you did well in high school and are not confident that you will get into med school.

however, if you are bright and do well at a reputable undergraduate school, you can apply to med school the traditional way. if you go to a highly regarded medical school, that will open doors - for super competitive specialties (derm, plastics, etc), for top ranked residency programs, for future jobs at universities, etc. any med school in the US that is accredited, including GW, will provide adequate medical training. however, there are obviously going to be differences in the other students in your classes and their caliber, the experts in a given field and top notch researchers (basic and clinical) will also be more concentrated at top institutions. i believe the benefit to going to a top medical school, when applying for residency, far outweighs the benefit of going to a top undergraduate school, when applying to medical schools. so if you can go to GW and still take the mcat and apply to non GW programs while retaining the GW spot as a backup, that might be an option...
 
Seem like most people are urging me to apply out of the program. I've always thought that the GW medical school was pretty good. Is the GW medical school really not that attractive to most premed students? Is it like a backup school?
 
Just for another perspective,

I am a student reapplying to medical school after coming from UC Berkeley (37 MCAT, 3.5 GPA). I have a fair amount of experience with medical school apps(basically every one of my friends was premed) and here's my advice:

1. You are in a very good position. My former roomie (now doing an Ochem PhD at Harvard) tried and failed to get into bs/md programs. She was very intelligent and went so a great HS, so consider yourself already part of an extremely elite group of students.

2. Risking applying out is assuming you can do better elsewhere. I'm sure you are a very capable student, but nothing in medicine should be taken for granted.

3. You can save a fair amount of money by not having to go through applications -MCAT, prep courses, interviews, possible years of lost income...
 
Oh yeah, I forgot:

GW is not a back up school. Pretty much any US medical school is considered to be a quality program. In any case, doing well on the USMLE is your responsibility no matter where you go, so just plan on being a self motivated learner.
 
As you get through college and start applying to med school, it becomes more of a "pride" factor than anything else. Of course GW and say Georgetown might not differ much, but when you look at WUSTL and GW? The measure becomes more clear.

It's all about the public's PERCEPTION of the school that determines one's elitist attitude. I'm dying to go to a reputable med school because my ugrad wasn't so. When people ask you, where do/did you go to school, be proud of it. If you will be proud of SBU then go! If you will be ashamed to say you go to SBU and feel like you HAVE to say, "I'm also in the GW med program" then I would reconsider.

Now that said, SBU may offer you optioins as VCU did me. I finished all my coursework in 2.5 years and a summer. So that gave me 1 semester to work at Berkeley and a full year to do research in Boston. If I had went to a more prestigious ugrad, this might not have been a reality.
 
thanks thanks!
other people have thoughts on this?
 
So this may go against the grain of what everyone else said and keep in mind that this is coming from a non-trad - but I really advise against these programs. I really think it's important to take some time between school and med school for a variety of reasons: (note when I use the word 'you' I'm not directly talking to the OP - just using it generally)

1) You may burn out and all that work that you have towards getting into the program may go to waste because suddenly you could feel like if you see anything related to medicine you might want to punch something.

2) You need the time to make sure that this is really what you want. I have no idea how people decide exactly what they want to do before they start UG but I went in undeclared and ended up doing something that is totally unrelated to my major and my previous career.

3) I think it's really important to work between UG and grad school so that you get a chance to mature and see the skills, experience, ups and downs that come with working. Not only do you gain better skills but you mature and you gain a better sense of what you want out of life, career, partners...etc. I just think it's really important for people to get that experience, even if just for a year to really come out of the bubble that school can surround you in.

I can go on and on about how I totally disagree with these BS/MD programs but I am not in the shoes of some of those students that choose to do it so it's unfair for me to judge. I just think that experience outside of school is vital and it makes you a better person. And there's no rush that you have to be done with med school and residency by the time you're 30. I think that way you miss out on a lot of other things going on in life.

I'm not bashing the OPs decision - I just wanted to give a different perspective.
 
dukemed2008 said:
BS/MD program is great if you find that you don't want to worry about getting into med sch and especially if you did well in high school and are not confident that you will get into med school.

however, if you are bright and do well at a reputable undergraduate school, you can apply to med school the traditional way. if you go to a highly regarded medical school, that will open doors - for super competitive specialties (derm, plastics, etc), for top ranked residency programs, for future jobs at universities, etc. any med school in the US that is accredited, including GW, will provide adequate medical training. however, there are obviously going to be differences in the other students in your classes and their caliber, the experts in a given field and top notch researchers (basic and clinical) will also be more concentrated at top institutions. i believe the benefit to going to a top medical school, when applying for residency, far outweighs the benefit of going to a top undergraduate school, when applying to medical schools. so if you can go to GW and still take the mcat and apply to non GW programs while retaining the GW spot as a backup, that might be an option...
Click to expand...

I thought if you apply to another school, you automatically give up your spot. I don't think you can hold it as a back up. You have to re-apply as a regular MD applicant. right?
 
if my UG had a BS/MD prog (and I don't know if it does), AND I was accepted to it I would DEFINITLY have gone. Aside form it being well regarded for UG and med school, I would already be in and done with my degrees. I woudln't have had to dspend the additional time and $ getting into other schools. If there an option for a yr off I probably would have tken that because I do think havuing space betwen UG and med school is a good thing to do, but either way I would have taken advantage of the oportunity, and run with it. G'luck!
 
vicinihil said:
It's all about the public's PERCEPTION of the school that determines one's elitist attitude. I'm dying to go to a reputable med school because my ugrad wasn't so. When people ask you, where do/did you go to school, be proud of it. If you will be proud of SBU then go! If you will be ashamed to say you go to SBU and feel like you HAVE to say, "I'm also in the GW med program" then I would reconsider.
Click to expand...

You really need to grow up and realize that none of it matters. You'll be a doctor, which is a huge accomplishment in itself. People will show you the same level of respect no matter where you studied, be it your peers or patients.

You'll also have the same opportunities coming from anywhere. I came from an unknown college and was admitted to several top medical schools. I think you need to quit blaming your undergraduate institution as the reason for your failure of being admitted to medical school and asses your other shortcomings.
 
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