bs/md or ivy

[AE3]

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Im still fairly early in my high school career but i was wondering what would be the optimum decision: an ivy league school or a bs md program. Both options I realize are difficult to get in to and my chances could be a long shot (more so for an ivy school). But lets say hypothetically I had a choice. What is the more beneficial rout?

 

[DIce3]

BS/MD is a better choice

 

[aSagacious]

BS/MD is a better choice

... if you are 100% sure you want to go the MD route.

Try your best to gain some clinical exposure now (shadowing, volunteering, etc) to gain a more realistic perception of the field before committing yourself to a program.

Who knows? You might hate fat, stinky, sick people and decide that medicine is not for you. Better to figure that out sooner than later.

 

[flatearth22]

Depends on the Ivy....assuming it's a run-of-the-mill BS/MD program I'd go to HYP and maybe Columbia over it. But probably not Penn, Brown, Cornell, Dartmouth.

Of course I'd take an "elite" BS/MD program (Brown PLME, Northwestern HPME, Rice/Baylor) over any Ivy.

 

[whatbout2morrow]

... if you are 100% sure you want to go the MD route.

Try your best to gain some clinical exposure now (shadowing, volunteering, etc) to gain a more realistic perception of the field before committing yourself to a program.

Who knows? You might hate fat, stinky, sick people and decide that medicine is not for you. Better to figure that out sooner than later.

👍 . A few years into college, if you find yourself interested in something else, you may end up regretting not going to the Ivy. If you're sure it's medicine, go the BS/MD route.

 

[kman1]

Ivy. BS/MD are great, but if you do well in your ivy (or any great college) have a good mcat score, excellent activities... you can get into a very good med school maybe one that is better than the bs/md school.

 

[AE3]

Appreciate all the replys... I still have a couple years left but im 99 percent sure medicine is for me. Ill keep an open mind but if nothing changes it sounds like the bs md rout is the best choice. Thank you all 🙂

 

[Ontology]

I'd go with the bs/md 100%. Ivy is a waste of time, money, and stress.

 

[David the Bruce]

Depends on the Ivy....assuming it's a run-of-the-mill BS/MD program I'd go to HYP and maybe Columbia over it. But probably not Penn, Brown, Cornell, Dartmouth.

Of course I'd take an "elite" BS/MD program (Brown PLME, Northwestern HPME, Rice/Baylor) over any Ivy.

"Run-of-the-mill" BS/MD??

 

[Narmerguy]

I turned down a BS/MD (albeit not for an Ivy) and it was the best decision I could have ever made. When I was in high school, I thought becoming a doctor as soon as possible was the most important thing in the world. However, it's not a race. There's much that I was able to experience as a result of my choice, and I can only imagine that going to an Ivy will open even more doors for you.

 

[Gigantron]

I turned down a BS/MD (albeit not for an Ivy) and it was the best decision I could have ever made. When I was in high school, I thought becoming a doctor as soon as possible was the most important thing in the world. However, it's not a race. There's much that I was able to experience as a result of my choice, and I can only imagine that going to an Ivy will open even more doors for you.

I'm assuming the BS/MD you turned down was accelerated, no? Would you be saying the same thing if it was an 8 year BS/MD (and all you had to look forward to was the guaranteed acceptance, not necessarily graduating earlier)?

 

[Skinceutical]

I was in the same situation.

I was admitted to two relatively mediocre BA/MD programs (one was an accelerated 6 year program, and the other was a traditional 8 year program). I turned down both to attend an Ivy league university. At the end of the day, I also didn't feel prepared to commit to medicine at 17. I also didn't feel like attending an enormous public school.

Looking back (I'm currently halfway through residency now), I think it was once of the best decisions I ever made. I wouldn't trade my college experience for anything, and I still made it through undergrad and med school in 8 years (at better schools than either of the guaranteed programs).

 

[Skinceutical]

Try to estimate your probability of ending up in an MD program if you start at an Ivy league college. Include people who quit based on the 8 pre-requisite courses. Include people who decide against applying because of GPA or a low MCAT. Both of those have happened. Include people who the Ivy league college discourages from applying to help pad their acceptance percentage. Include people who apply and get in nowhere.

You should also consider those people who realize during college that their interests and career goals aren't the same as when they were 17 or 18. Getting into medical school might seem like the most important thing in the world right now, but who knows it your priorities will have changed in two or three years?

There are people who end up leaving BA/MD programs for that very reason. I also know people who have stuck through and finished those programs even after they realized that their interests had changed and they didn't really want to go to medical school...because they felt compelled to finish or that their options would otherwise be very limited.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I'd go with the bs/md 100%. Ivy is a waste of time, money, and stress.

I disagree. They tend to be (but not always) a great place to learn how to learn. Smaller classes, more access to top minds in the field, and great networking. I know not all of them allow easy access to faculty (researched for the grad students), but I wouldn't write them all off. In the event a person changes their mind about what they want to study, being at a top university is far better than 95% of the BS/MD universities out there.

 

[Ontology]

^What you're saying is obvious. Obviously, if you arent sure about medicine then take the ivy. However, if your sure about medicine, Ivy saves you MAJOR money, stress, and time which is also money.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

^What you're saying is obvious. Obviously, if you arent sure about medicine then take the ivy. However, if your sure about medicine, Ivy saves you MAJOR money, stress, and time which is also money.

At 17 or 18....I don't think anyone can be *sure* about going into medicine, which is why BS/MD programs rarely seem like the best path. To each their own I guess.

 

[skierbum]

I would keep my options open. Plus, you would really have to like the town to stay 8 years in the same place.

 

[MedicalBeast]

bs/md if you are decided on medicine

 

[ComradeDoktor]

I didn't look at BS/MD programs when I was in high school because I wasn't sure I could commit to medicine. Three years into college, just having taken my MCAT, constantly fretting about grades, and starting to work on my personal statements, I'm realizing that ignoring the BS/MD route is the worst decision I've ever made.

 

[Narmerguy]

I'm assuming the BS/MD you turned down was accelerated, no? Would you be saying the same thing if it was an 8 year BS/MD (and all you had to look forward to was the guaranteed acceptance, not necessarily graduating earlier)?

Actually it wasn't accelerated. I was quite confident at the time that I would pursue an MD, but honestly, if you're good enough to get into a BS/MD program, you could almost definitely get into medical school. It was amusing to me that by the end of my interview, the interviewers were almost encouraging me not to take the BS/MD program.

There's no rush, but an Ivy experience doesn't come along often. With that said, I'm quite happy that I didn't apply to any Ivy's out of college as I think the university I ended up at was the absolute 100% best choice I could have ever chosen.

 

[235009]

I'd go with the bs/md 100%. Ivy is a waste of time, money, and stress.

this is just factually incorrect. ivy league schools offer by far the best financial aid. i recently read an article that was saying that even student athletes have started picking ivy schools over other schools that offer athletic scholarships because at times the financial aid is better than the scholarship!

as for time...as someone else said it's not a race. however many extra years you take through the traditional route are years in which you are maturing which will help you when you step out into the real word, either as a 3rd year or as a resident. also, nothing beats a true college experience and broadening your horizons so you're not an uninteresting one dimensional person.

if you belong at an ivy league school, which is true of almost all accepted students, then it shouldn't be more stressful than any other school. it's true that you are competing on a whole different playing field but grade distributions typically take that into account. being challenged by the current and future leaders of the fields you are studying (your professors and classmates respectively) is a priceless learning experience.

 

[plumhill]

BS/MD isn't easier to get into than an Ivy...they're VERY thorough with the interview process since the candidates are so young, and many 18-year-old freshmen "premeds" change their mind, and they don't want to give a BS/MD spot to someone who might do that.

I don't know if BS/MD programs are binding...if any are, only apply to those that aren't. If you're good enough to get into a BS/MD program, you can probably rock college and get into a better school (depending on what BS/MD program you go to). But TRUST ME, it would have been SUCH a relief to know that there was at least one med school that I'd be able to go to after graduation. I'm a sophomore and I'm still kicking myself for not really looking into it in high school >.<

 

[235009]

BS/MD isn't easier to get into than an Ivy

once again we have a statement that has no basis in reality. you clearly have no idea how high the standards are for getting into an ivy league school. you hear that med school admissions is a "crapshoot" even though almost half of those applying get in whereas only ~10% of applicants to ivy league schools will get in. BS/MD programs are not nearly as selective.

 

[thepoopologist]

The main advantage I see in BS/MD programs is the ability to shave off the years. A 6-year BS/MD vs an IVY? BS/MD all the way. 7-8 year BS/MD's are a little more in the grayzone and if I was looking at Northwestern vs. Harvard for example, I'd pick Harvard because of what it offers in terms of the full college experience.

 

[AE3]

I am interested in a six year program. My stats to those admitted into the bs/md arent far apart. I think its more of a stretch for me to be accepted into an ivy, and considering I have yet to build an orphanage an africa, HYP is not a realistic option. My concern is that I will not be able to handle a 20-24 credit hour curriculum fresh out of high school, or the med school course load as a 20 year old.

 

[varsityblue]

If you get in an Ivy AND think it is the best environment for you to grow as a person and student, then go there. Most likely, you'll end up getting in a good medical school anyway and will likely have much more fun along the way by going to a school you absolutely adore. That said, keep the following in mind:
1) Don't get attached to schools before you've been admitted. It's a waste of time.
2) The 6, 7, and 8 year programs are generally paced in such a way that you're not going to have an overload.
3) Don't EVER sell yourself short.

Have you considered Brown's PLME program?

 

[Narmerguy]

I think the bold statement in the first paragraph is far too optimistic. Through high school and relatives, I have known of too many people who got into an elite college and then dropped out of the GPA range for pre-meds. They are the majority, not the rare exceptions.

For the second paragraph, people say similar things about LACs that get better feedback about undergraduate teaching than the Ivies. People also say this about party colleges for other reasons.

It's really not that optimistic. >40% of the people who apply get into medical school. That's nearly half! Obviously the BS/MD acceptance rate is far lower. I can't account for every single person who may lose motivation along the way to medical school. If you've got friends dropping out of GPA range, this is obviously has more to do with their focus and motivation rather than their capacity to get accepted.

If you are competent enough to get into a BS/MD program, you are more than competent enough to get into medical school. If you go do drugs or cheat on tests or decide that 40oz of alcohol a night is a better way to spend your time, than sure, you probably won't end up getting in. But I think it's pretty obvious that these kinds of departures from the norm are exceptional.

The 2nd paragraph has nothing to do with BS/MD and is more just a personal thought of mine that I decided to throw out there. Though I highly respect Ivy schools and think there are very few reasons to pass up an opportunity to attend one, when I applied my only goal was to graduate debt free so I attended the highest ranked school I could that would give me a full ride. Though I originally only chose this school for its money, I've come to realize that this was the absolute best school I could have attended because of the people/resources I've been able to receive. I'm not sure how your second statement was relevant at all to what I was saying since I was simply sharing a personal experience.

 

[happydog1994]

Hi! I'm in my last year of high school and I'm hoping to apply for medicine this year. May I know if the BA-MD programmes accept international students?

 

[neuro robotics]

I am in a combined BA/MD. The combined programs frequently offer half or full merit scholarships -Without consideration of parent's income.

However, HYP offer tuition of 10 percent of parents income up to 180k plus 12k room and board (18k plus 12k for a total cost of 30k per annumat maximum allowed parental income). Accordingly, Ivies are need based only and not Merit so they can cost more! The lesser Ivies give much less in assistance.

Some combined programs offer merit aid for Med Schools also. With rare exceptions Ivies do not. Acceptance rate for BA/MD programs average 5% which is the same for an unhooked applicant for admission to HYP so they are not any easier. One of the top Ivies has a dramatic grade deflation policy in effect which impacts grads trying to get in all grad schools since only a percentage of students in each class can get an A.

Since 80k Bio and Chem grads fight for 16k Medical school slots real admission rate is closer to 20 %. In order to get the touted 40 % many schools will not permit their committees to write for lesser qualified med school applicants. Some also count grads who take up to 10 years post graduation to get into to med school after work experience, grad school, Peace Corps etc.

Many BA/MD do not require MCAT's and most require a 3.5 gpa's. Some will drop you if you take the MCAT's anyway so caveat emptor. All the students in the programs work together as a team and tutor the weakest members. There is no cut throat competition for grades or letters of recommendation.

As program members graduate from Med School they pass on their apartments to the freshmen class. You do not need to shadow doctors in the summers and can start your research projects before medical school since summers are free and AP credits count for up to 30 undergraduate credits. The Ivies give very little credit for 5's in High School AP classes. On balance there are many benefits to combined programs such as peace of mind with a signed Medical School contract if you are not prestige obsessed.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

BS/MD all the way! 😀