Bs/md vs top colleges

[medicaldoc]

So, I am stuck in a great, but tough decision between a bs/md program and harvard, stanford, and MIT. I have made pros and cons for each and am thinking really hard about it right now. Ultimately, my life goal is to become a doctor, politician, businessman, live a happy life, and better the society for myself and others. I don't want to work so hard to the point of burning out, but I want to be challenged to grow. My work ethic sucks right now, but I think college will be a great time to really "find" myself and figure out my real strengths and weaknesses.

I am not extremely bright, but am fairly smart and have the potential to do much more by working hard. Academics was definitely not my STRONGEST point in high school (33 ACT, nothing big). So, please take that into consideration: I am no math, science genius. I work hard, but really love to get involved with stuff besides academics, although I am seeing I will have to switch up my gears a bit for college.


The BS/MD program is a 8-year program at Union College with Albany Medical College.

Requirements of the program:

-Maintain3.5 GPA every trimester. If unable to, student will be placed on probation for 2 trimesters and failure to bring it up with remove student from program.
-MUST major in Biology or Chemistry.
-MUST also do an interdepartmental major in the humanities or social sciences.
-MUST do a masters in science or MBA in the summer after sophomore and junior years through Union Graduate School. (Financial aid will cover MS courses).
-MUST go on a term abroad.
-A tentative 4 year plan for the program can be seen here:
http://www.union.edu/Academics/LIM/Program/schedule.php

-NO MCAT required (I feel this is pretty big)
-cannot apply out of the program without losing medical school seat.

-I will be in about 20K - 30K in debt after graduating from Union College, assuming I get no other outside scholarships (which I might, so maybe the debt will be around 20K)


HARVARD

-Awesome opportunities

-Even though I am 99% set on medicine, it will allow me to pursue my other passions like politics and business to a larger extent. Union College will allow me to do the same, but at Harvard there will be more internship opportunities.

-I will not have to major in Bio or Chem unlike at Union College (even tho I am probably going to major in Chem).

-I will have the true college experienece in a lively city.

-I liked the campus, but didn't LOVE it.

-90% of premeds get into medical school..

-If I decide to take some time off between med school and undergrad, I can expect to land great jobs and make a true difference in society.

-Practically Full Ride (cost me 2K a year)


M.I.T.

At first, I wasnt considering MIT at all because I had heard that it is a bad place to do premed because of its difficulty. However, I visited, and really really liked the campus. I stayed there for 3 days and havent yet at the other colleges so that maybe why.

-Awesome opportunities, comparable or better than harvard.
-More research stuff going on, very easy to get involved.
-Very collaborative, supportive environment.
-Students are all really in a similar boat with workload.

-really liked campus, totally different feel from harvard. It is more open, more innovative than traditional.

-HARD academics (grade deflation)

-most people sounded happy, but they were engineers. Not many premeds, but the ones I talked to said MIT was a great place.

-great city

-i sometimes feel like it is way too academic for me though. MIT seems to be all about Psets and work while Harvard seems to palce a lot of focus on extracurriculars.

-Practically Full Ride (cost me 2K a year)


Stanford:

Have not visited, but from what I have heard:

-Awesome opportunities again, but it is huge.
-Not urban area, so maybe a bit less opportunities.
-Good weather.
-Some grade inflation (which is good).

-Very far from home (bad, but good because it will allow me to grow)

-Practically Full Ride (cost me 2K a year)



Im in need of some advice from fellow high school, college, and medical students, even doctors etc.....

Should I take a guaranteed acceptance to Albany Medical College or go to one of the top colleges (Harvard, Stanford or MIT) and pursue pre-med, explore interests, have fun, learn to live, live to grow and thrive, and work as hard as I can to make it into "a" medical school (note: I aim to only get into a medical school, I dont care about getting into top 10 med school).

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[anishannayya]

I have a feeling this post is just to say toot your own horn, but I'd go with Harvard if you planning to practice in the east coast, and Stanford if your planning to practice in the west (I've lived on both coasts, a currently live two hours from Stanford, the campus is nice.).

Since money isn't a factor, I would just go with location.

BTW, Stanford is the the Bay Area/Silicon Valley, so the entire area is relatively populated (much like urban sprawl).

 

[rmaj79]

Is Union the only combined Medical program you applied to?

 

[schrizto]

My honest opinion? Go to Harvard or Stanford.

The Union/Albany BS/MD is not the hardest of those kind of programs to get into. 2100+ SAT and a list of medical ECs often makes the cut. I do not think most of these kids could get into Harvard, MIT, or Stanford. Union and Albany aren't the most exciting places either. IMO, this program is not worth it over your other choices.

Now Harvard or Stanford would give you an amazing experience, and they gave you fantastic FA. I'm not including MIT because you emphasize you're "not a math, science genius" and MIT is like a math science genius playground (and I have heard, not ideal for premed because of grade deflation and focus on the physical sciences and engineering).

 

[medicaldoc]

ramj79 - I got into the Union/Albany med, Saint Louis program and another instate program. I got interview for HPME but then got rejected. I only applied to about 6, accepted at 3, rejected post-interview at 2, and outright rejected 1. looking back, I shouldve spent more time on BS/MD programs.....i really think, unless u did something really really amazing, that a lot of it depends on essays after a certain point on the scores, a lot of which I messed up in the college app deadline rush.

schritzo - I plan on majoring in Chemistry or Economics by the way.....

 

[Ischemic]

I also feel these kind of posts are more self congratulatory than anything. I don't see how the opinions of random online people would help convince you otherwise. Choose whichever you see yourself doing in the future. You're either going to regret the decision which means tough **** or you're going to like it which would be great for you. Only you know what you want.

 

[medicaldoc]

Ischemic- I had no intentions of coming off as self-congratulatory etc.....If I have come across like that, I sincerely apologize. And, the thing is, people who have been through these decisions or may be in the programs etc, will know much to help me.

 

[lord_jeebus]

Agree with Harvard or Stanford.

I went to Stanford and the only low point was the cost - something that's not an issue for you.

MIT is a great institution but grade deflation is painful if your goal is medical school.

The chances are excellent that in 5 years you will be at a more desirable (prestige and/or location-wise) medical school than Albany.

 

[onb2014]

Harvard, hands down. You'll be making a huge mistake by doing the BS/MD. Congrats on your choices.

 

[Ischemic]

Well, if you're really seeking answers then I'll help guide your thinking.

The first question you should answer is:
1. how seriously do you want to medicine. Is it some "cool" passing fancy that was inspired from an episode of Grey's Anatomy or House? Or is it something that you seriously can see yourself doing 50-60 years in the future?

If yes, than you have to decide between taking the MD/BA or regular college.
2. You seem interested in a variety of fields so will taking MD/BA restrict your class choices? Will it impact your performance to maintain the required GPA if you did go and pursue your other interests? Will your interest in medicine change by college experience?

Your undergrad schools are prestigious yes but what's their track record for getting kids into med school? How's the support from advisors etc? Just cause you're from Harvard doesn't mean you'll automatically get in somewhere. Do you want to be a doctor or do you want people to ooh and ahh when you tell them where you go? Yes, you can do both (go to a great undergrad and get int med school) but I like to play safe and think long term.

Now consider your chances of med school if you did just do regular college.
3. How interested in prestige are you when applying to med school? Those schools require you to do a lot and present a unique application either strong in research or very strong in academics.

Med school is hard enough to get into that nothing is guaranteed. There are 4.0/40 MCAT applicants that don't get in anywhere. MCAT is another crazy ballgame/stress issue you'll have to consider. Are you a good standardized test taker? Good at critical thinking in timed/stress situations? A slip up during college for whatever reason could derail your whole application.

4. Money is another consideration. Depending on how strong of an applicant you are you can either apply to 5-10 schools or 20-30 schools and that's a lot of money when including secondary fees. They can add up to 1000-2000 dollars for the whole process.

Personally, after going through the whole process I hated it. I woulda taken an 8 year MD/BA without a thought. But that was what I found. You'll never know exactly what to do but you can only make a decision with the information at hand. You'll get lucky and it'll turnout for the best or it may not. Again, focus on long term goals not just "in the moment" flings that should help your decision more.

 

[medicaldoc]

onb - Are you sure?? Sometimes, I feel that I will not be smart enough at Harvard. I mean, when I work hard, I definitely see the results, but sometimes I struggle with stuff like Biology etc where vast memorization is required. I will be aiming for a 3.6+ GPA at Harvard and a really good MCAT, but I also dont want to work so hard that I wont have a chance to research, do internships, date, have fun, and hang out.

Right now, the question in my mind is basically succeeding at Harvard vs guaranteed acceptance to Albany med. Harvard will open a lotta doors, but will also bring much stress. Union will probably be fairly easy in terms of academics, but I might actually become even lazier, which is my fear.

 

[medicaldoc]

Ischemic - prestige is not very important to me. What is important to me is having the resources at hand to achieve my goals. Medicine is something I have thought about since I was little and immersed myself into medical activities in high school. I worked at hospitals, volunteered, shadowed, researched, and this is the career I want, maybe later on get into politics and business along with medicine because then I feel like I can make a true impact. But, I want a solid foundation and I have heard that undergrad years are the times to really put yourself together to get on the right track. Life is hard and Im just thinking that even though Union BS/MD sounds easy, it may actually backfire on me and I might regret, although I might regret if I dont get into med school from harvard.

I am a decent standarized test taker. 33 on ACT after couple tries, 760 on SAT subject tests.......I feel like if i really study, I will be able to do good. Why did you hate your undergrad experience???

As a backup, if I mess up atl like Harvard, I always have option of doing post-bac/masters and applying again, or pursuring DO degree instead of MD, which is easier to get into.

 

[schrizto]

I am a decent standarized test taker. 33 on ACT after couple tries, 760 on SAT subject tests.......I feel like if i really study, I will be able to do good. Why did you hate your undergrad experience???

Here is more of my take on the subject, I think you're likely being a bit modest here. You haven't revealed much about your college application other than your 33 ACT, but it takes a lot more than a 33 ACT to get into H, MIT, and S. There was probably something really distinguishing on your app of some sort. It looks like you come from a disadvantaged background (based on the amount of FA these schools gave you) and you could possibly be URM. Those demographics get a pretty good boost in med school admissions.

I applied to college last year, and was rejected from Stanford and did apply to many BS/MD programs (I turned down Union/Albany's interview), and had the SAT equivalent of a 34 ACT, so perhaps I am biased. I would take Harvard or Stanford in a heartbeat.

 

[Narmerguy]

I turned down a BS/MD program for a similar reason and I'm now positive it was the right choice. People who are capable of getting into those are usually capable of getting accepted to better med schools through the normal path and without all the requirements. The only instance when I find the BS/MD programs extremely enticing is when they shave off years of the process to get the MD (I think there was one that made it 6 years). Other than that, trust yourself and your abilities and just take college seriously.

 

[medicaldoc]

Schritzo- I think the biggest, strongest part of my application was my work experience at professional places, which got me accepted to these schools. I dont think many have had that type of experience and I spent really 20-25 hours a week working while managing full load of classes and couple other activities. I am not a URM, unless being indian counts as one, but am from a disadvantaged low-income background.

As for my academic profile, 33 ACT, 760 on Chem, Math 2 SAT2. 5's on Chem, Psych, Gov, APUSH. 3.95 UW GPA. Took 2 AP's in Junior year. Taking 5 APs this year (acing all my classes except AP Eng Lit and AP Biology.

I am a very analytical person so stuff like math, chem, and physics come fairly easy to me. What I struggle in is reading in AP Eng and memorizing in AP Bio. Maybe I feel this way because of the time crunch and my somewhat diminished work ethic this senior year. Going to school 7 hours a day and then 20 hours/week job plus 4 hours in other activities every week puts me in a real time crunch and maybe if I had more time to devote to Bio, I might not feel this way. But, all in all, I do struggle a lot more with English and Bio than analytical stuff that doesnt need to be studied for.

So, after all this information, I think if I work really hard, I will be able to get high grades and high MCAT (if I improve reading comprehension etc). I will definitely try to find a balance btw studies and activities.

Knowing all this, what is ur recommendation?

 

[masturhu]

I am in a MD/BS program at Wayne State and I would go to the choice that gives you the best financial aid.

If you are talented enough to get into MD/BS programs and really good schools, you should be good enough to get into medical school.

In my case, the MD/BS program paid for everything including housing and gave me a book stipend. I have loved my decision.

However, some other people had only a full tuition scholarship here and had a full tuition scholarship at a better university. They are the ones that sometimes regret their decision.

Hope this helps!

 

[greatlakes]

My recommendation is to attend Harvard. Why?

1. A puny % of students get the kind of opportunity that you have been blessed --> Admission with great financial aid (almost a full ride!!).

2. Harvard is ranked among the world's best universities in various studies over the last several years; it attracts quite a number of the best minds of the world. Your intellect will be stretched beyond your imagination. Btw, Harvard is actively expanding its offerings in science & engineering.
(http://www.boston.com/news/educatio...3/13/at_harvard_reengineering_science/?page=1)

Just my 2 cents.

 

[medicaldoc]

My parents and many other people have boiled it down to this, going into the Union BS/MD is the safe route. Guaranteed admission to a medical school, and what will surely be an enriching and meaningful education. Going to Harvard is a path filled with risk, as I have no such guarantee, but also with higher potential. This could mean two things, A) The pressure and insanity of a traditional pre-med grade-grubbing undergraduate education, and B) Maybe it'll help me sink or swim, and see if I really am cut out to be a doctor.

Risk vs safety, potential vs freedom and no stress basically...........

 

[EddieL]

Harvard is rated by many as the best university in the world, and you're invited to go there for free. Go; you won't regret it. Most premeds from Harvard get in anyway.

 

[greatlakes]

Here is an idea that might be worth pursuing.

If you can call the medical school admin folks at the BS/MD programs where you were that close (including your state school) and tell them that you have been admitted to Harvard, Stanford & MIT. However, explain to them that you are very interested in their program and see if they will consider reserving a spot now in their med school for you to attend 4 years from now. Let them know that you will agree to abide by the same conditions (GPA, MCAT scores if applicable etc) that they impose on other BS/MD graduates, except that you will be graduating from either of the Univ. mentioned.

I think the new admissions development may require you explore alternative paths to BS/MD. The worst they (the MD admissions) can do is to refuse you; the upside is that they will let you attend any one of the the top univ. and still have a spot for you in their med school. In any case you have the Union / Albany.

 

[bambi]

If you aren't good at memorising have you thought that perhaps med school isn't actually the best idea for you?

 

[medicaldoc]

greatlakes - I actually have never heard of that before, and I highly doubt that they will. But, that is a pretty unique idea, I will try when I am defintiely set on Harvard.

bambi- I actually have thought of that, but I think that if I really try, I could do it. I might not be the best med student, but to become a doctor, you dont have to be the best. I know engineers who werent good memorizers, but went in and had to work hard and werent the best but made awesome doctors.

 

[schrizto]

Here is an idea that might be worth pursuing.

If you can call the medical school admin folks at the BS/MD programs where you were that close (including your state school) and tell them that you have been admitted to Harvard, Stanford & MIT. However, explain to them that you are very interested in their program and see if they will consider reserving a spot now in their med school for you to attend 4 years from now. Let them know that you will agree to abide by the same conditions (GPA, MCAT scores if applicable etc) that they impose on other BS/MD graduates, except that you will be graduating from either of the Univ. mentioned.

I think the new admissions development may require you explore alternative paths to BS/MD. The worst they (the MD admissions) can do is to refuse you; the upside is that they will let you attend any one of the the top univ. and still have a spot for you in their med school. In any case you have the Union / Albany.

That kind of agreement will never happen. It's called a BS/MD program for a reason: part of the deal is you are required to attend the affiliated undergraduate school. If it were that easy, under-the-table negotiations like that would happen all the time and you might as well do away with all BS/MD programs.

Also, the Union/Albany LIM has a specific mission with the MS or MBA and special ethics seminars, because they want to turn out "leaders in medicine". Going to another undergraduate school entirely would not fulfill the goal of the program.

 

[bambi]

Don't take this the wrong way but maturity wise you don't sound like you should be committing to 8 years of anything right now, I mean more in terms of innocence/naivety than anything else. However, you should also bear in mind that a lot of the people replying to this aren't in med school yet, so just be aware of that when taking their advice when they haven't been through the process yet themselves.

 

[medicaldoc]

You all are great help.....please keep it coming..

Bambi - In what way do you mean I am naive? I have been thinking about this quite hard and really tried to see what is important to me. Am I naive in the sense that I believe I will be able to get through medical school without even having experienced the rigors of undergrad? Or, am I naive and immature in the sense that I havent been introduced to other things besides medicine etc?

 

[CaliGirl14]

No offense, but how is academics not your strong point? I mean you did get into MIT/Stanford/Harvard...unless you're being modest.

 

[medicaldoc]

Cali - I never said I am not strong. Just comparatively to harvard students etc, I think I am probably on the middle-lower side.....because from what I have seen most of the harvard admits have >2250 SAT and 5's on all AP's and math and science competitions like USAMO, USABO etc.......I admit, I am a bit intimidated, but to correct misconceptions, I am good in academics, just not amazing like most of the other harvard admits.

 

[EddieL]

Cali - I never said I am not strong. Just comparatively to harvard students etc, I think I am probably on the middle-lower side.....because from what I have seen most of the harvard admits have >2250 SAT and 5's on all AP's and math and science competitions like USAMO, USABO etc.......I admit, I am a bit intimidated, but to correct misconceptions, I am good in academics, just not amazing like most of the other harvard admits.

In my opinion, you wouldn't have gotten in if you weren't good enough to be there.

 

[boaz]

Also note that Albany is a private school and offers very little (if any) scholarship money. If you got a full ride at Harvard and Stanford for undergrad, chances are you'll be offered some good scholarships at private medical schools that have the money.

Take the acceptance into the BS-MD program as a sign that you won't have too hard a time with the regular application process.

 

[bambi]

You all are great help.....please keep it coming..

Bambi - In what way do you mean I am naive? I have been thinking about this quite hard and really tried to see what is important to me. Am I naive in the sense that I believe I will be able to get through medical school without even having experienced the rigors of undergrad? Or, am I naive and immature in the sense that I havent been introduced to other things besides medicine etc?

Just the way you talk about things really. You think you will have time to do politics and business stuff alongside being a doctor, you think you can just try and ring up the BS-MD school and just ask them to save you a med school place, that you think if you suck at memorising you can magically learn this technique well enough to succeed when you start med school, things like that. Also just the way you write, can't really explain that. I don't mean it in a bad way really, you are very young, it's normal to be naive.

From the things you write I would say Harvard, no question, I honestly think in a few years you might decide against medicine all together. Even if you still want it, you want life now, which yes you can have in the BS-MD prog but you will be way more focused on med school then when you should just enjoy yourself a bit. Obviously you will have to focus and work hard at Harvard but you will have more choice over courses from the sounds of things. The other route is safer but if you hate all the restrictions and classes you wont do as well but if at Harvard you pick a bunch of courses just because they are fun you will generally do better.

 

[fahimaz7]

I would go to Harvard or Stanford.. Whichever is cheapest for you.

In the end, you'll graduate from medical school 1 year later, and you will have more opportunity to explore majors, social events, and broaden your academic and creative mind.

This is a no brainer in my book. Plus, you won't be required to major in Biology or Chemistry. You can major in music and 6th century literature, and still get into a top ranking medical school.

 

[fahimaz7]

greatlakes - I actually have never heard of that before, and I highly doubt that they will. But, that is a pretty unique idea, I will try when I am defintiely set on Harvard.

I think the medical school will laugh at your request. Lets be honest.. Why would they ever agree to such a thing?

 

[greatlakes]

^^ If the high school athletes can negotiate scholarships and grants in their favor, why can't smart students do the same?

BTW, in my discussion with admin folks, I was informed that BS/MD admissions usually have 2 list of students they are interested. (i) Selected candidates and (ii) alternates. If the universities do not accept the request for the OP to study at a nationally #1 ranked university and have a seat for med school (which is understandable), they can at least revisit their earlier decision and perhaps offer the OP a seat as an alternate. I have been told that at many med schools they do not follow strictly the fixed number of seats. It all depends on the applicant pool, within reason.

Start thinking out of the box, for heavens sake.

 

[mmmcdowe]

^^ If the high school athletes can negotiate scholarships and grants in their favor, why can't smart students do the same?

BTW, in my discussion with admin folks, I was informed that BS/MD admissions usually have 2 list of students they are interested. (i) Selected candidates and (ii) alternates. If the universities do not accept the request for the OP to study at a nationally #1 ranked university and have a seat for med school (which is understandable), they can at least revisit their earlier decision and perhaps offer the OP a seat as an alternate. I have been told that at many med schools they do not follow strictly the fixed number of seats. It all depends on the applicant pool, within reason.

Start thinking out of the box, for heavens sake.

Because they have no way to bind you to them. Also its a little different than student athletes asking for more money. Smart students can do that too in some cases. It would be like a high school student calling up an major league team and asking that they wait for him for 4 years while he played in the minor leagues for another team. I guarantee that they will not agree to the BS/MD deal if you don't go to the school that the BS is supposed to be through. They get plenty of applicants that undoubtedly get into top undergrads, part of the point is that university wants you to get your BS or BA from them too.

 

[fahimaz7]

^^ If the high school athletes can negotiate scholarships and grants in their favor, why can't smart students do the same?

BTW, in my discussion with admin folks, I was informed that BS/MD admissions usually have 2 list of students they are interested. (i) Selected candidates and (ii) alternates. If the universities do not accept the request for the OP to study at a nationally #1 ranked university and have a seat for med school (which is understandable), they can at least revisit their earlier decision and perhaps offer the OP a seat as an alternate. I have been told that at many med schools they do not follow strictly the fixed number of seats. It all depends on the applicant pool, within reason.

Start thinking out of the box, for heavens sake.

Lol.. There are plenty of qualified applicants to medical school. Comparing a high school senior to someone like Lebron James is a joke. At medical school, that "top applicant" is just a number... and most often than not, he's not even the top ranking student once the grades start rolling in.

If you decide to do this, pm me and I'll 3-way the admissions office so I can hear their response. It'll be too funny to miss.

 

[medicaldoc]

I agree with fahimaz. The only way I will have a guaranteed acceptance to Albany Med is if I attend Union College and fulfill all the Leadership in medicine requirements. They are making me do double major and masters for a reason (they place an emphasis on the undersatnding of business and politics in medicine). Plus, this is a way for lower tier colleges to attract the best of the best. Simply put, it will not work. Or else, you will see 100s of kids attending Ivy leagues with acceptance to state med schools etc. Plus, they are investing in me. Why would they invest in me if I don't even go to their college?

 

[greatlakes]

The whole BS/MD is somewhat confusing. There are universities where UG from one state are admitted to med school in another state. For ex.
1. George Washington University has arrangements with UG schools [ as a Freshman] from NY (St. Bonaventure) or as Sophomore (Colgate, UMD, .....).

2. University of Medicine & Dentistry of New Jersey - New Jersey Medical School has arrangements with Boston University (for NJ residents).

There are instances where one does not have to study at the same institution as the med school. ex. include Univ. of South Florida, Tufts, Albany, Temple etc. The entire list is here (http://www.minimedicalschool.com/ba_md_programs.html)

 

[Velocity]

I think the medical school will laugh at your request. Lets be honest.. Why would they ever agree to such a thing?

Start thinking out of the box, for heavens sake.

I tend to agree with greatlakes. If you've already decided not to take the acceptance to the BS/MD program, what's the harm in asking? You probably won't meet with a positive response, but you have nothing to lose by trying.

My personal recommendation: Harvard or Stanford. I tend to think that the ivy league schools are a bit overrated, but nobody can deny that saying you went there carries an impact. I know a guy who went to Stanford, and it sounds like they had a really supportive studying system there.

The requirements for Albany to stay in the program are actually quite high. Some BS/MD programs make it easier on their students; for example, at my university they had access to their own private school-run test banks. But I wouldn't necessarily count on that. If you enter the BS/MD track at Albany and meet their requirements to make it through to medical school, you'd probably be able to make it into other medical schools. So if you think you have it in you to succeed there, you can probably succeed elsewhere, too.

The only benefit is that you don't need to take the MCAT. The MCAT is a pretty awful experience, but it's a good growing experience. If your GPA is quite high then there's a good chance that you'd do at least satisfactory on the MCAT. A high GPA with an average MCAT will get you into medical school.

The advantage of going elsewhere is that you'll have more freedom, and you won't be locking yourself into medicine just yet. College is really a time when a lot of people discover themselves. That's quite valuable. Becoming a doctor is a long, difficult process. The worst thing you could do is to go through the process, only to realize that you wished you'd done something else. If you end up deciding that medicine is still right for you, that's great - you'll probably take it more seriously after going through various options and experiences.

 

[schrizto]

The whole BS/MD is somewhat confusing. There are universities where UG from one state are admitted to med school in another state. For ex.
1. George Washington University has arrangements with UG schools [ as a Freshman] from NY (St. Bonaventure) or as Sophomore (Colgate, UMD, .....).

2. University of Medicine & Dentistry of New Jersey - New Jersey Medical School has arrangements with Boston University (for NJ residents).

There are instances where one does not have to study at the same institution as the med school. ex. include Univ. of South Florida, Tufts, Albany, Temple etc. The entire list is here (http://www.minimedicalschool.com/ba_md_programs.html)

That's because these schools have formal agreements with an established program in place. There is no such thing between Harvard, MIT, or Stanford with AMC, and don't think they'll set one up just for you.

I tend to agree with greatlakes. If you've already decided not to take the acceptance to the BS/MD program, what's the harm in asking? You probably won't meet with a positive response, but you have nothing to lose by trying.

Because it's not exactly having nothing to lose. If he chooses a school other than the BS/MD program, he no longer has a provisional spot in medical school reserved for him. How do you think it'll look if they respond negatively and then he applies there again the traditional route?

You choose either one or the other, there's really no way to get the so-called best of both worlds here. Why should AMC agree to someone maintaining the requirements of the Union/AMC program elsewhere, a 3.5 and no MCAT, when they can choose from students (some from H, MIT and S) the traditional route with concrete gpas and MCAT scores?

 

[Hoody]

Because it's not exactly having nothing to lose. If he chooses a school other than the BS/MD program, he no longer has a provisional spot in medical school reserved for him. How do you think it'll look if they respond negatively and then he applies there again the traditional route?

Why would they hold it against him if he chooses not to matriculate? that seems rather silly and I doubt its reality. I don't think it would be any different asking a medical school for more financial aid assistance, eventually declining that acceptance, and then applying to that same program later on for residency.

 

[schrizto]

Why would they hold it against him if he chooses not to matriculate? that seems rather silly and I doubt its reality. I don't think it would be any different asking a medical school for more financial aid assistance, eventually declining that acceptance, and then applying to that same program later on for residency.

Basically, the message by doing what greatlakes is suggesting is, "I'm not going to attend your program, but could you do a favor for me?" It's not the declining of their offer that looks bad. Turning down the BS/MD program for another school will not make the medical school discriminate against you later when you apply the regular route, but asking the medical school to still uphold their offer of admission (without reapplying) after you chose to go elsewhere is unrealistic.

Asking for more financial aid assistance is a different story because by asking that means that you are very intent on attending the school. Medical school admissions and residency program admissions, though within the same institution, are handled by completely different departments. The residency program probably won't even know or care that you decided to go to another medical school over theirs.

 

[Ischemic]

Afte reading this stuff I"m going to have to agree with bambi on you're asking a bunch of premeds ... from SDN on top of that ... to help you decide between prestigious schools like Harvard, etc and a BS/MD from a no name. To generalize a lot of kids on SDN are prestige ****** and would take a school ranked 1 over a state school without considering anything except prestige.

Personally, after going through the application process I know it's organized chaos with a slight hint of nebulous in it. Schools can reject you for any number of reasons even if you have the best scores. It's expensive and a very stressful year. I wouldn't want to do it over. Let's not even start about the MCAT. If at the end of the day you really want to be a doctor, it doesn't matter where you go for undergrad. The Harvard name is enticing but after 4 years will you still be in med school if you go to Union? Yeah. What about Harvard? Maybe, maybe not. I would go the safe route and save myself and my parents the trouble of the application process.

Another thing I agree with bambi about is the naivette you're showing. You want to do so many things, which is fine, but clearly shows you're not into medicine strong enough. You have to realize a doctor from Union is the same as a doctor from Harvard. Once you start practicing people care about where you did your residency not where you went to undergrad. This is my final word on the matter. Good luck in your decision.

 

[GMed]

Afte reading this stuff I"m going to have to agree with bambi on you're asking a bunch of premeds ... from SDN on top of that ... to help you decide between prestigious schools like Harvard, etc and a BS/MD from a no name. To generalize a lot of kids on SDN are prestige ****** and would take a school ranked 1 over a state school without considering anything except prestige.

Personally, after going through the application process I know it's organized chaos with a slight hint of nebulous in it. Schools can reject you for any number of reasons even if you have the best scores. It's expensive and a very stressful year. I wouldn't want to do it over. Let's not even start about the MCAT. If at the end of the day you really want to be a doctor, it doesn't matter where you go for undergrad. The Harvard name is enticing but after 4 years will you still be in med school if you go to Union? Yeah. What about Harvard? Maybe, maybe not. I would go the safe route and save myself and my parents the trouble of the application process.

Another thing I agree with bambi about is the naivette you're showing. You want to do so many things, which is fine, but clearly shows you're not into medicine strong enough. You have to realize a doctor from Union is the same as a doctor from Harvard. Once you start practicing people care about where you did your residency not where you went to undergrad. This is my final word on the matter. Good luck in your decision.

While I agree with most of you are saying there are a few things the OP should know. If you are seriously thinking about medicine, in my opinion then Harvard would most likely get you where you need to go. With Harvard's grade inflation, it should be about the same level of work or less than you need to do to maintain a good GPA as you would at Albany with their 3.5 minimum. This is especially true if you just take minimal science requirements for premed.

Also in terms of trying to get into medical school, while you are assured of being in medical school at Albany, coming from Harvard with a 3.5+ GPA and decent MCAT scores~30+, should land you schools of Albany's caliber or slightly below. However if you do decided to work hard, and get above average scores, you are in a much better position to get a better medical school. However nothing is guaranteed.

While getting in practice after residency, patients won't care what medical school you went to as much, but the biggest difference is residency. If you wanted to do dermatology or get into a Brigham/MGH/JHH for internal medicine, you are set up light years beyond what someone from Albany would be, assuming you got into a much better medical school~Harvard, Duke, etc... If you look at Harvard's match list, average students in their class will get much better residencies than an average student at Albany.

This of course all resides on the assumption that you are willing to work hard at either institution. Just remember that medicine is a long road and if you aren't willing work hard, medicine probably isn't for you.

 

[calvinNhobbes]

Sigh, no love for my alma mater. 😉

I was lucky enough to be in a similar situation way back in the day. I chose MIT, and it was one of the best decisions I've made in my life.

The undergrad experience is unique and intense to say the least, but if you can succeed at MIT, the rest of life just seems so much easier.

If you have any specific questions, feel free to PM me.

 

[medicaldoc]

Sigh, no love for my alma mater. 😉

I was lucky enough to be in a similar situation way back in the day. I chose MIT, and it was one of the best decisions I've made in my life.

The undergrad experience is unique and intense to say the least, but if you can succeed at MIT, the rest of life just seems so much easier.

If you have any specific questions, feel free to PM me.

ischemic - you are definitely correct and this was my thinking until I saw all these requirements of the program.....and I will be in at 20K - 30K of debt after I graduate from Union College.

After talking to many Harvard and MIT people, they have almost convinced me that college is a time of growing up and finding passionate interests. Although I have already found my interest and passion, I think the freedom to major in anything and pursue internships (and I will most likely get better ones at Harvard) and getting involved in activties etc will definitely make me much 'better' than at Union (although this may be subjective). Plus, the headache that is taken away by the MCATs at Union will be replaced by the stress of doing double major and pursuing MS in the summers. This will probably leave little time for internships etc, which I think are an essential part.

From what everyone has told me, Harvard offers amazing opportunities and experience. Union college will grant me a peace of mind and security in the long run, but what if I do really well and want to apply out? I will lose the medical school spot and it will become the same old application process. On the other hand, if I do bad, I am stuck at Union College (not to be snobby, but comparatively speaking).

Harvard as a 93% acceptance rate into medical school with many going to top schools, some going to lower ranked schools. My thinking is that if I maintain 3.5 and higher and do good MCATs and puruse activities etc, I will end up with a much better experience, work ethic, and no debt at all. If I decide to take couple years off to maybe do MPH or something along those lines, I will have the full freedom. If I decide to travel abroad, harvard will pay for everything. A person I know traveled to 15 diff places all on harvard's budget.

Basically, is not taking an MCAT and guaranteed acceptance to med school worth an amazing experience interacting with different ideas and people in a lively city? Is it worth it to take it over an experience that will likely land me to med school anyway if I work hard? Worst comes to worst, I will pursue a DO degree (hope it doesnt offend anyone).

 

[Velocity]

Worst comes to worst, I will pursue a DO degree (hope it doesnt offend anyone).

I'm glad you've reached a conclusion - I think it's a good choice. I will just say, if choosing a DO is your idea of "worst comes to worst"... you haven't seen how far down the "worst" barrel goes 🙂 I hope you never have to.

 

[onb2014]

onb - Are you sure?? Sometimes, I feel that I will not be smart enough at Harvard. I mean, when I work hard, I definitely see the results, but sometimes I struggle with stuff like Biology etc where vast memorization is required. I will be aiming for a 3.6+ GPA at Harvard and a really good MCAT, but I also dont want to work so hard that I wont have a chance to research, do internships, date, have fun, and hang out.

Right now, the question in my mind is basically succeeding at Harvard vs guaranteed acceptance to Albany med. Harvard will open a lotta doors, but will also bring much stress. Union will probably be fairly easy in terms of academics, but I might actually become even lazier, which is my fear.

i've seen people who were pre-med at top schools and flamed out, but then again a bunch of people from harvard go on to harvard med.

you gotta take risks in life -- this risk is a no-brainer. good luck!