BS vs The Truth

Started by PressPforPi
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PressPforPi

PressPforPi

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Okay, so, as a future applicant, I was wondering if I could get some advice on this. I plan on applying MD and DO. My goal is to be a physician. (Not looking for MD vs DO argument) The initials behind my name do not matter to me, if I'm meant to match into Neurology or some competitive specialty, then I should be able to match it in either of the two areas (allopathic or osteopathic). Now, getting to the main point of my post, I intend on basing the schools I choose to apply to on a few factors:
1) Type of curriculum
2) Cost
3) Atmosphere (not necessarily location)

These are just a few. However, when asked that big question, "Why osteopathic medicine?" I don't want to reply with an answer along the lines of "I love the osteopathic philosophy." To me, this seems to be somewhat of an insult to MD's. (Again, not trying to get on the MD vs DO debate) I was just curious if it would be detrimental to state my real reason for choosing to apply to the school, rather than just feeding them some cliche type of line?
 
It is a risk. I think a lot of people imagine themselves being completely candid and relaxed in these interviews and it all somehow working out perfectly. It might, it might not. Personally I think you ought to have at least *some* reason why you are interviewing at a DO school, and that answer really should include some aspects of the osteopathic philosophy that you find to be beneficial.

We discuss this topic fairly often. The most recent one I can think of is here:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=820374
 
Dude you NEED a good BS reason for attending a DO school. Most DO schools are so insecure and stuck in the 1800s that you basically need to claim you worship AT Still at your interview.

Just feed them the whole BS "I like the holistic approach crap, OMM is an extra tool in the toolbox" line.
 
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When they asked me "why DO school?" in my interview, I responded that I want to become an extremely capable and competent physician, and I feel that this school can provide me with this opportunity.
 
Just give them what they want to hear, for now. If you wind up at a DO school, in OMM class, they will tell you that AT Still is basically up there with Buddha and Copernicus. You don't need to expound on the "DO philosophy" though, unless they specifically prompt you to do so. I think, out of all my DO interviews, that only one school asked me the specific "Why DO?" question.
 
I think I was asked this at all of my interviews. I did work in some of the Osteopathic Philosophy stereotypical answer, but was general so as not to get caught up in details I don't know. Be careful using the term "Allopathic" because you may get questioned about it...many consider it a derogatory term, since it really doesn't describe traditional medicine (MD), and some interviewers like to trip people up about this point.

So just say it is traditional medicine plus the extra stuff...it'll work and get them to move on to the next question. Don't be naive, but don't be too detailed either. Focus on the medicine part, not the osteopathic part.
 
I did not give them osteo philosophy thing as an answer. I told them it was mainly because of location. I wanted to stay close to my family-it worked🙂

:luck:
 
Strangely, when I interviewed at Touro-NV, I was not asked that, mainly because the two interviewers were faculty PhDs and we just talked about research for the majority of the time. I thought it that might've been bad since they might not be able to get in the information they needed out of me, but other than that, it was conversational and flowed well.

For the most part though, you will need an answer and a good, positive response to it, no matter how you feel about it.
 
PressPforPi said:
Okay, so, as a future applicant, I was wondering if I could get some advice on this. I plan on applying MD and DO. My goal is to be a physician. (Not looking for MD vs DO argument) The initials behind my name do not matter to me, if I'm meant to match into Neurology or some competitive specialty, then I should be able to match it in either of the two areas (allopathic or osteopathic). Now, getting to the main point of my post, I intend on basing the schools I choose to apply to on a few factors:
1) Type of curriculum
2) Cost
3) Atmosphere (not necessarily location)

These are just a few. However, when asked that big question, "Why osteopathic medicine?" I don't want to reply with an answer along the lines of "I love the osteopathic philosophy." To me, this seems to be somewhat of an insult to MD's. (Again, not trying to get on the MD vs DO debate) I was just curious if it would be detrimental to state my real reason for choosing to apply to the school, rather than just feeding them some cliche type of line?
Click to expand...

First of all, great attitude. There needs to be more pre-meds with this kind of positive attitude about medicine.

To be honest, I dont know if I am entirely convinced about OMM and certain ideas behind osteopathic medicine but I found a way to word things so that I wasn't lying and I was being completely honest (which is something most interviewers can recognize and appreciate/respect). During my interviews when asked "Why DO" I usually talked about how by treating the patient as a whole, and not just treating their symptoms, I will be a better doctor. Now this is something I actually believe, but I never once used the words osteopathic etc during my interview. I just talked about how its a win win for everyone by treating the whole patient. The patient will probably gain more trust of the physician, the physician understands the patient better, and as a result the physician can treat the patient in more appropriate way (if this makes sense). Now, this is true whether you are an MD or DO. It just so happens it is something that DO interviewers probably want to hear. I never once in my interviews talked about differences between DO and MDs.

I have even heard of students saying stuff like "well I dont care if I am an DO or MD, and it is really important to me to practice medicine in _____(insert where school is)". This is a legit answer. Everyone has different reasons for picking a school and many choose strictly off location. You can use that to your advantage

Anyway this is just an idea of where to start, I hope it is somewhat helpful. Good luck and keep up the positivity🙂
 
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Two notes. You'll likely appreciate both.

1) Neurology is not competitive. Its among the easiest residencies to get. If you actually want neurology (which is seen as prestigious despite the easy of getting it) this is likely great news. If you used neurology just as a token residency of merit, may i suggest something ending in the word "surgery" instead. Those are hard to get into across the board.

2) I told the interviewers that I preferred MD schools. I used more words and some fancy phrasing to qualify the point, but the point was I said it point blanc to the admissions people. Got in to every DO school I applied to but NYCOM. Stupid NYCOM. My argument was clearly I wanted MD over DO, but once I realized I wasn't going to an MD school in the area I wanted, I'd prefer a DO school in the area over any other MD school. If nothing else UNECOM, TouroCOM, PCOM, LECOM-E, and UMDNJ aren't that insecure that they need you to kiss osteopathy's ass.

As a fun little side fact: I said it to Martin Levine. AKA, the new president of the AOA. Maybe he respected my hutspah?
 
DocEspana said:
2) I told the interviewers that I preferred MD schools. I used more words and some fancy phrasing to qualify the point, but the point was I said it point blanc to the admissions people. Got in to every DO school I applied to but NYCOM. Stupid NYCOM. My argument was clearly I wanted MD over DO, but once I realized I wasn't going to an MD school in the area I wanted, I'd prefer a DO school in the area over any other MD school. If nothing else UNECOM, TouroCOM, PCOM, LECOM-E, and UMDNJ aren't that insecure that they need you to kiss osteopathy's ass.

As a fun little side fact: I said it to Martin Levine. AKA, the new president of the AOA. Maybe he respected my hutspah?
Click to expand...


Wow, balls. I'm not that badass so I towed the line. I got in too.

For the OP: YMMV!
 
DocEspana said:
Two notes. You'll likely appreciate both.

1) Neurology is not competitive. Its among the easiest residencies to get. If you actually want neurology (which is seen as prestigious despite the easy of getting it) this is likely great news. If you used neurology just as a token residency of merit, may i suggest something ending in the word "surgery" instead. Those are hard to get into across the board.

2) I told the interviewers that I preferred MD schools. I used more words and some fancy phrasing to qualify the point, but the point was I said it point blanc to the admissions people. Got in to every DO school I applied to but NYCOM. Stupid NYCOM. My argument was clearly I wanted MD over DO, but once I realized I wasn't going to an MD school in the area I wanted, I'd prefer a DO school in the area over any other MD school. If nothing else UNECOM, TouroCOM, PCOM, LECOM-E, and UMDNJ aren't that insecure that they need you to kiss osteopathy's ass.

As a fun little side fact: I said it to Martin Levine. AKA, the new president of the AOA. Maybe he respected my hutspah?
Click to expand...

Another funny side fact: I asked Martin Levine where he went to medical school and he puzzled the **** out of me when he said "I didnt go to medical school." Im like oh okay....to which he replied "I went to osteopathic medical school." Yeah. This is one of the reasons why things are the way they are in the osteopathic world.

EDIT: I can vouch for the fact that PCOM is practically allopathic. The OMM dept isnt taken very seriously here...which pisses off the OMM dept significantly.
 
DocEspana said:
Two notes. You'll likely appreciate both.

1) Neurology is not competitive. Its among the easiest residencies to get. If you actually want neurology (which is seen as prestigious despite the easy of getting it) this is likely great news. If you used neurology just as a token residency of merit, may i suggest something ending in the word "surgery" instead. Those are hard to get into across the board.

2) I told the interviewers that I preferred MD schools. I used more words and some fancy phrasing to qualify the point, but the point was I said it point blanc to the admissions people. Got in to every DO school I applied to but NYCOM. Stupid NYCOM. My argument was clearly I wanted MD over DO, but once I realized I wasn't going to an MD school in the area I wanted, I'd prefer a DO school in the area over any other MD school. If nothing else UNECOM, TouroCOM, PCOM, LECOM-E, and UMDNJ aren't that insecure that they need you to kiss osteopathy's ass.

As a fun little side fact: I said it to Martin Levine. AKA, the new president of the AOA. Maybe he respected my hutspah?
Click to expand...


wait so... just as an addition to this...
Are there in particular some DO schools that may be more...erm..."traditional minded" than others? I.e. would one school prefer to hear the manipulative medicine-is-my-religion answer over another?

Just curious for future interview possibilities.
 
OnTheMoon said:
wait so... just as an addition to this...
Are there in particular some DO schools that may be more...erm..."traditional minded" than others? I.e. would one school prefer to hear the manipulative medicine-is-my-religion answer over another?

Just curious for future interview possibilities.
Click to expand...

:laugh: Maybe not necessarily to the extent of it being your religion, but definitely sing its praises at certain schools. You can pretty much rest assured that any school that requires a DO letter is going to be all about it. Either of the ATSU's, VCOM's, DMU, and a handful of others are interviews where you're going to want to express your interest in OMM. Also any school where a member of your interview panel is either a DO and/or teaches OMM at the school will warrant the same response. It's not a bad idea to go into all of them with a positive attitude about it though.
 
OnTheMoon said:
wait so... just as an addition to this...
Are there in particular some DO schools that may be more...erm..."traditional minded" than others? I.e. would one school prefer to hear the manipulative medicine-is-my-religion answer over another?

Just curious for future interview possibilities.
Click to expand...

Accidentally posted twice.
 
Some schools are definitely more traditional than others...from my 2 years of interviewing, I can contest to that..take these for a grain of salt, but this was my experience on interview day:

Very Traditional: (Both Philosophy and OMM)
KCOM (obviously)
DMU


Some Osteopathic Stuff: (More philosophy than OMM)
PCOM
UNECOM

Could be an MD school if you looked quickly:
Western
SOMA (strange considering ATSU, but I think it has to do with the CHC model, and keeping the whole "Osteopathic" feel is difficult when everyone is spread all over the place)
NYCOM
KCUMB
 
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willthethrill said:
Some schools are definitely more traditional than others...from my 2 years of interviewing, I can contest to that..take these for a grain of salt, but this was my experience on interview day:

Very Traditional: (Both Philosophy and OMM)
KCOM (obviously)
DMU


Some Osteopathic Stuff: (More philosophy than OMM)
PCOM
UNECOM

Could be an MD school if you looked quickly:
Western
SOMA (strange considering ATSU, but I think it has to do with the CHC model, and keeping the whole "Osteopathic" feel is difficult when everyone is spread all over the place)
NYCOM
KCUMB
Click to expand...

I'm confused... how does the philosophy of an osteopath differ from that of an MD?...
 
willthethrill said:
Some schools are definitely more traditional than others...from my 2 years of interviewing, I can contest to that..take these for a grain of salt, but this was my experience on interview day:

Very Traditional: (Both Philosophy and OMM)
KCOM (obviously)
DMU


Some Osteopathic Stuff: (More philosophy than OMM)
PCOM
UNECOM

Could be an MD school if you looked quickly:
Western
SOMA (strange considering ATSU, but I think it has to do with the CHC model, and keeping the whole "Osteopathic" feel is difficult when everyone is spread all over the place)
NYCOM
KCUMB
Click to expand...

PCOM has both philosophy and OMM....and that both consists of 1.5 hours of lab and PERHAPS ONE hour of lecture a week...and some (most) weeks there is none. So your review is twisted....the OMM hands on is majorly more significant than the theory
 
CascadaFan said:
I'm confused... how does the philosophy of an osteopath differ from that of an MD?...
Click to expand...

DO schools like to PRETEND there is a difference...when in fact 90 percent of the students A. dont care about OMM/"the philosophy" B. will never use OMM after they leave med school.

DO schools/the AOA being hell bent on maintaining the fact that there is a difference is actually really hurting the profession IMO....because the students have spoken...and we dont think the difference exists anymore.

It is really too bad.
 
willen101383 said:
DO schools like to PRETEND there is a difference...when in fact 90 percent of the students A. dont care about OMM/"the philosophy" B. will never use OMM after they leave med school.

DO schools/the AOA being hell bent on maintaining the fact that there is a difference is actually really hurting the profession IMO....because the students have spoken...and we dont think the difference exists anymore.

It is really too bad.
Click to expand...

I'm curious... if they do not represent the interests of DO's. Then why do we not remove them from power?
 
nardini46 said:
The old folks are still in power. Just have to wait till they die off until we get to take over. 😱
Click to expand...

Exactly.

Read up a few posts where i mentioned speaking to the pres of the AOA and how he denied that he went to medical school.....only to say two seconds later that he went to "osteopathic" medical school.

Uhh really bro? Was that really necessary? You just made yourself look pretty silly in front of 10 DO students.
 
DocEspana said:
Two notes. You'll likely appreciate both.

1) Neurology is not competitive. Its among the easiest residencies to get. If you actually want neurology (which is seen as prestigious despite the easy of getting it) this is likely great news. If you used neurology just as a token residency of merit, may i suggest something ending in the word "surgery" instead. Those are hard to get into across the board.

2) I told the interviewers that I preferred MD schools. I used more words and some fancy phrasing to qualify the point, but the point was I said it point blanc to the admissions people. Got in to every DO school I applied to but NYCOM. Stupid NYCOM. My argument was clearly I wanted MD over DO, but once I realized I wasn't going to an MD school in the area I wanted, I'd prefer a DO school in the area over any other MD school. If nothing else UNECOM, TouroCOM, PCOM, LECOM-E, and UMDNJ aren't that insecure that they need you to kiss osteopathy's ass.

As a fun little side fact: I said it to Martin Levine. AKA, the new president of the AOA. Maybe he respected my hutspah?
Click to expand...

I met that guy while working at the NYC marathon; the med students who had prior experiences with him did not have very favorable things to say about him. I thought he was an alright guy, though.
 
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nardini46 said:
The old folks are still in power. Just have to wait till they die off until we get to take over. 😱
Click to expand...

I agree...these old folks have such dated ideas about osteopathy. I understand they want to preserve the art of OMM and the "philosophy" but still, they're so caught up in the past and their own insecurities that they're actually hurting the profession.
 
Kuba said:
I would definitely go to BS. It has a strong reputation of matching applicants into competitive specialties. Isn't The Truth in the carib???
Click to expand...
It may have more to do with how you say it and come across than with what you're saying. One school I interviewed at asked where I saw myself in 10-20 years with my osteopathic (emphasis on their part) medical degree. The school has a strong focus on community medicine, too. Knowing all of that, the BS answer would be something about community medicine in underserved areas. I was honest in my answer, stating that I wanted to enter academic medicine (traditionally the realm of MD's), and expanded a bit on it. I figured that it was going to kill my chances, but I'm a horrible liar. At the end, when asked if I had any other questions about the school, I stupidly opened my mouth and asked how the school viewed students taking the USMLE. Got a really cold response on that one - if the first response had been shooting myself in the foot, that was most certainly blowing off the other one.

My stats weren't particularly great, but the school accepted me straight out.

I don't feel that I have anything to hide about what I want to do or my reasons for doing it. Ideally we'd all be able to say that. If you feel that your motives and reasons aren't anything to hide or stretch, though, then be genuine. If anything, your attitude will be better than if you're trying to keep BS together, and you'll probably give some answers that hasn't been echoed by hundreds of other applicants.
 
tman1820 said:
I agree...these old folks have such dated ideas about osteopathy. I understand they want to preserve the art of OMM and the "philosophy" but still, they're so caught up in the past and their own insecurities that they're actually hurting the profession.
Click to expand...

Glad to see someone agrees with me. It seems difficult to find many people at my school that are willing to recognize that the AOA is really hurting the profession.
 
FIREitUP said:
I met that guy while working at the NYC marathon; the med students who had prior experiences with him did not have very favorable things to say about him. I thought he was an alright guy, though.
Click to expand...

Really cool dude to talk to casually. Though it gets a little odd when he grabs random janitors and manipulates them on the spot in the hallway while having a conversation with you the whole time. Definitely has some interesting stuff to say about working with the NJ Nets though. If you ever get a chance to meet him again, ask him to tell you some Nets stories, he seems to have at least 6 different ridiculous stories.

cbrons said:
Wait the AOA has a new president? What happened to Dr. Nichols from CCOM?
Click to expand...

You prob already know this, but the presidency is a one year deal and (if I understand right) you cant be re-elected. So I think Nichols is in her last month or two of presidency before Levine takes over.
 
DocEspana said:
Really cool dude to talk to casually. Though it gets a little odd when he grabs random janitors and manipulates them on the spot in the hallway while having a conversation with you the whole time. Definitely has some interesting stuff to say about working with the NJ Nets though. If you ever get a chance to meet him again, ask him to tell you some Nets stories, he seems to have at least 6 different ridiculous stories.



You prob already know this, but the presidency is a one year deal and (if I understand right) you cant be re-elected. So I think Nichols is in her last month or two of presidency before Levine takes over.
Click to expand...

Im surprised you had a good experience with him. Aside from the "OMS" thing I posted he was a complete A hole to my group at DO day on the hill. COMPLETE A hole. Completely chastized us and made us look like a bunch of idiots in front of a bunch of capital staffers.....and then stormed off without saying goodbye or thanks to all of us who came down to DC to further the DO cause. I was VERY VERY unimpressed with that guy.
 
willen101383 said:
Im surprised you had a good experience with him. Aside from the "OMS" thing I posted he was a complete A hole to my group at DO day on the hill. COMPLETE A hole. Completely chastized us and made us look like a bunch of idiots in front of a bunch of capital staffers.....and then stormed off without saying goodbye or thanks to all of us who came down to DC to further the DO cause. I was VERY VERY unimpressed with that guy.
Click to expand...

:shrug: IDK. always been really nice to me and I'm one of those people who generally dodges him when I can (one cannot escape a conversation with him if you make eye contact). But I've never had a bad experience with him, just don't want to lose 10 minutes of productivity talking to him most of the time.

To each his own. I guess he has a dark side.
 
DocEspana said:
:shrug: IDK. always been really nice to me and I'm one of those people who generally dodges him when I can (one cannot escape a conversation with him if you make eye contact). But I've never had a bad experience with him, just don't want to lose 10 minutes of productivity talking to him most of the time.

To each his own. I guess he has a dark side.
Click to expand...

Yeah I will probably never see the guy again...but I thought it was a completely low blow the way he treated us at DO day. Especially since we were all skipping school to support the AOA cause. We arent lobbyists, we are medical students. If you have beef with our lack of lobbying skills...teach us....dont scream at us and treat us like children and then storm off without thanking us. I will go along next year for DO day...but I doubt ill be wasting my time lobbying for the AOA....I had a poor opinion of them going in....and a much poorer opinion now!
 
Your personal statement and interview are not the time to talk about your true feelings. You say what you have to say to get accepted.
 
willen101383 said:
Im surprised you had a good experience with him. Aside from the "OMS" thing I posted he was a complete A hole to my group at DO day on the hill. COMPLETE A hole. Completely chastized us and made us look like a bunch of idiots in front of a bunch of capital staffers.....and then stormed off without saying goodbye or thanks to all of us who came down to DC to further the DO cause. I was VERY VERY unimpressed with that guy.
Click to expand...

That's what the students from AT Still that I met @ the marathon told me; that he's an egotist prick. Gladly, I won't be going to Touro, or an Osteopathic Medical school, so I don't have to be associated someone who belittles others.
 
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FIREitUP said:
Gladly, I won't be going to Touro, or an Osteopathic Medical school, so I don't have to be associated someone who belittles others.
Click to expand...
I wish I could tell you otherwise, but that exists outside of osteopathic medicine as well.
 
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