Bschool to Med School?

[KMac]

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Greetings all, been browsing through these forums for the past couple of months as I contemplate career options and figured I'd see if anyone had any thoughts / input that might be of help.

First a little background. I graduated from undergrad in 04 with majors in econ and finance. Overall GPA was ~3.7. My one science course during that time was Astronomy, which clearly will not help me here. After graduation I worked as an investment banker in London for a couple years, then at a large private equity firm in the US for a couple more, spending significant time in the healthcare industry in both jobs (one of my bosses was an MD). At several points during both, I contemplated ditching finance to go to med school, but doing so would have basically required me to quit my job - the hours/unpredictability simply didn't allow for night classes or significant volunteer work to properly vet the idea. Given that, I just couldn't bring myself to walk away since I wasn't 100% sure. In order to advance at my most recent job, you have to have an MBA, so I started at a top 5 bschool this past fall, spending a lot of my time in healthcare management (with the plan to go back to healthcare private equity/finance, at least that's what my apps said). However, spending so much time with the MD/MBAs who teach the healthcare classes has once again sparked my interest in med school, and now that I'm not tied down by a job, it seems like an easier step and just feels a lot more "right" this time. I also took a biotech science primer class during the fall which 1) I greatly enjoyed and 2) gives me some confidence that I can handle the science of the pre-reqs and med school.

Which brings me to the next point - obviously I need to get going on the pre-reqs if I'm going to have any shot of doing this. My first thought was to try and take them concurrently with my mba classes. I could probably take GenChem this summer and then realistically only one of the other three over the course of next academic year. That would leave two more to take post-mba. The other option would be to finish the mba over the next year and a half (and take advantage of various opportunities to test whether this is something I really want to do), then immediately enroll in a post-bacc, ideally one where I could knock everything out in a year. This would also free up this coming summer for an internship of some kind. Current possibilities include roles at hospitals where I would have the freedom to shadow docs, ride in ambulances, etc in addition to more mgmt type projects. This would also give me enough flexibility to take advantage of various opportunities to work closely with doctors in a variety of capacities through the mba program - HIV/AIDS work in Africa (with in-country experience), medical device development with university-affiliated doctors - as well as outside of it potentially.

So, on to the questions:
1. Given the above, do I have a solid enough shot of getting into med school (MD only) that thinking about this is worthwhile? Obviously my GPA puts me in the range, but a lot will depend on the pre-req grades and MCAT. I just want to make sure I'm not crazy - I'm sure my classmates here probably would if I brought this up with them.

2. If money weren't a consideration, what is the best post-bacc route, in terms of quality of the teaching/program, ability to get me into school, and quickest amount of time? Bryn Mawr / Goucher / Scripps appear to be consistent favorites here, but I've seen a number of posts indicating that these programs aren't all they're cracked up to be.

3. Any assessment of my chances at Bryn Mawr / Goucher? Seen a lot of different posts about what it takes to get in.

4. How realistic is it to get into med school using the linkages at either of these schools? (i.e. what kind of candidates actually get into med school via this route?)

5. While I had a couple of fairly strong ECs pre-mba, none are clinical in nature. What type of volunteer/clinical experience should I try to go after in the coming months, and how many hours should I aim to get prior to med school applications? Will non-medical ECs be important in the admissions process?

Obviously I have a lot of questions (this only scratches the surface), but I'm just trying to do as much information gathering as I can at this point. Thanks in advance for any and all feedback.

 

[NTF]

Given that you have a good GPA, there really isn't anything standing in the way at this point of you getting into medical school. You'll have to:

1)Do well in your post-bacc. Location or linkage isn't going to be so paramount with you because you have an excellent GPA. Just do well because you have so few science classes your scGPA will be hit harder by each misstep than for a science major with tons of science credits. (Also be aware that grad GPA and ugrad GPA are considered separately with greater weight being placed on ugrad.)
2)Do well on the MCAT. 30+. 35+ even better.
3)Build ECs. This I think will be the most crucial for you. The most significant question adcoms have for career hoppers is why? They want to see and know that you've investigated this thoroughly and thought it through. They'll want reassurance that this isn't just dissatisfaction with your job (or the economy), intellectual vanity or whimsy. You can do this by building as many clinical ECs as possible. Shadowing. Volunteer boatloads with actual patients. While many will disagree most of the people inclined to participate in adcoms do see medicine as A CALLING and they'll want to see elements of that in your journey. Think pursuit of joy/passion, rather than escaping dissatisfaction.
4)Get good LORs from physicians or science professors.
5)Apply early and broadly. Don't get into the prestige trap. Any accredited US med school will be well-regarded by residency programs if that student ranks well and did well on steps.

As I said earlier, there really isn't anything that hinders you at this point from getting into med school. Med schools like diverse candidates so your business background won't be a hindrance (and can actually be a plus) as long as you've demonstrated convincingly that you're dedicated to medicine and understand the daily life of a physician.

 

[nontrdgsbuiucmd]

My background is very, very similar to yours. MBA Booth, undergrad similar in areas and similar GPA. Strong business ECs, no clinical ECs prior to undertaking pre-med courses.

I'd looked closely at schools with linkages, but for me moving family would have been too difficult/expensive, so I enrolled in a 4 yr school as non-degree and took all the premed courses. I was starting from square one with no science classes.

One thing that surprised me was that my undergrad GPA around 3.7 (school within top 50) was not "great". If anything, it was low. Top 10% of applicants at most med schools have 4.0s. Take a look at MSAR book to verify this. 3.7 would put you in the range, but it's not going to make you a shoo-in to be admitted.

Another surprise to me was that med-schools didn't care about business accomplishments, really at all. When I asked several admissions folks at med schools about this, they said they didn't really know how to consider business successes relative to the "typical" undergrad applicant; does conducting a road show mean you're well suited to read an EKG? This surprised me, but it was my experience.

Would suggest 150 or so hrs clinical volunteer experience; I had in the 200's for hours clinical which, per school admissions officers, was a bit higher than most. I did ER/Surgery volunteer work, would suggest something with patient interaction regardless of exactly what & where it is. Some schools basically require physician shadowing (1-2 days is considered OK per physician) whereas others ignored it.

MCAT is going to be one of the make-or-break issues; this test is knowledge based rather than something you can ace being smart. When I took it, there were a fair amount of questions that you either knew from prior studies, or you didn't. Took me around 1 1/2 months studying full time, after completing pre-med courses, to score well on it. Also, the few advanced bio courses helped me a great deal with scoring 30+ on MCAT; theoretically they weren't required, but they really helped me with understanding a complicated passage quickly. Note that many schools have minimum per-section MCAT scores, i.e. a 13 in one section will not make up for a 7 in another section.

Final thing to mention that was not intuitive to me is that the schools' formal deadlines, aren't the true deadlines. One school that had a Jan deadline for applications, was fully booked with interviews by December (as in, anyone who'd not applied by October/November was not going to be interviewed). Things are far more competitive in the fall than in the summer; I'd applied to a couple schools that did not extend interviews, even after speaking with an admissions rep who reviewed my qualifications and learned the school was interested in me -- schools just got backed up with other candidates and didn't extend interviews. (although the school I'm attending is ranked higher than these other schools that did not extend interviews).

Best of luck. Lots of really smart/hardworking people in med school; I'm finding it challenging and interesting.

 

[yollom]

My background is somewhat similar as well, although I chose at the last second not to attend a top MBA school that I got into (Fuqua) to give myself a shot at getting into an MD school, and my GPA is waaay lower (Engineering Major...ugh).

I recently got into 4 MD schools and have recently closed down my app and made a final choice on what school I'm going to attend, so you can definitely shift gears and go the medical route with a reasonable assumption of success. Luckily, I got myself into a teaching position a couple of years ago where I had time to take courses - I think this is important because I had an income where I could keep my lifestyle reasonably stable for my wife. I have had friends take research jobs or foundation work where they would have time - this might be an option for you after you finish your MBA - ask around.

Your experience will most likely make you a great candidate, as long as you can express it in such a way that it interests the admissions persons who looks at your app. Your grades and MCAT will determine whether they even give your app a look - so these, as nontrdgsbuiucmd said, are your top consideration.

The only problem is that you have to take a ton of pre med courses at the undergrad level - many schools will want to see some calculus and some college level english. At a minimum, I figure it you are on a two year timeline (with summers) to finish all of the gen chem, physics, bio, and ochem you need. You will also need to fit in some shadowing and volunteer work - I believe the local ER is the best way to do this.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[KMac]

My background is very, very similar to yours. MBA Booth, undergrad similar in areas and similar GPA. Strong business ECs, no clinical ECs prior to undertaking pre-med courses.

I'd looked closely at schools with linkages, but for me moving family would have been too difficult/expensive, so I enrolled in a 4 yr school as non-degree and took all the premed courses. I was starting from square one with no science classes.

One thing that surprised me was that my undergrad GPA around 3.7 (school within top 50) was not "great". If anything, it was low. Top 10% of applicants at most med schools have 4.0s. Take a look at MSAR book to verify this. 3.7 would put you in the range, but it's not going to make you a shoo-in to be admitted.

Another surprise to me was that med-schools didn't care about business accomplishments, really at all. When I asked several admissions folks at med schools about this, they said they didn't really know how to consider business successes relative to the "typical" undergrad applicant; does conducting a road show mean you're well suited to read an EKG? This surprised me, but it was my experience.

Would suggest 150 or so hrs clinical volunteer experience; I had in the 200's for hours clinical which, per school admissions officers, was a bit higher than most. I did ER/Surgery volunteer work, would suggest something with patient interaction regardless of exactly what & where it is. Some schools basically require physician shadowing (1-2 days is considered OK per physician) whereas others ignored it.

MCAT is going to be one of the make-or-break issues; this test is knowledge based rather than something you can ace being smart. When I took it, there were a fair amount of questions that you either knew from prior studies, or you didn't. Took me around 1 1/2 months studying full time, after completing pre-med courses, to score well on it. Also, the few advanced bio courses helped me a great deal with scoring 30+ on MCAT; theoretically they weren't required, but they really helped me with understanding a complicated passage quickly. Note that many schools have minimum per-section MCAT scores, i.e. a 13 in one section will not make up for a 7 in another section.

Final thing to mention that was not intuitive to me is that the schools' formal deadlines, aren't the true deadlines. One school that had a Jan deadline for applications, was fully booked with interviews by December (as in, anyone who'd not applied by October/November was not going to be interviewed). Things are far more competitive in the fall than in the summer; I'd applied to a couple schools that did not extend interviews, even after speaking with an admissions rep who reviewed my qualifications and learned the school was interested in me -- schools just got backed up with other candidates and didn't extend interviews. (although the school I'm attending is ranked higher than these other schools that did not extend interviews).

Best of luck. Lots of really smart/hardworking people in med school; I'm finding it challenging and interesting.

Thanks for the thorough response, very helpful information. In terms of the post-bacc, I am pretty flexible in terms of where I can take it and how much I can spend. My goal is to attend the best post-bacc program possible, with the two key factors being the overall foundations for the MCAT/med school (though based on initial feedback, it seems I could accomplish this just about anywhere), as well as the program that will get me started in medical school as quickly as possible. Given my flexibility and these goals, does it make sense to consider one of the "highly regarded" post-bacc programs, particularly if I can take advantage of the linkage? One concern I have is if I were to link, I would most likely be going into school with only the pre-reqs and no anatomy, biochem, genetics, etc. Is it worth taking the glide year to get more science under my belt, and apply through the regular application cycle?

As for the ECs, I should be able to pull together a pretty decent slate of ECs prior to enrolling in the post-bacc. I already have several shadowing opportunities lined up. Question though, is it better to shadow 10 different docs for 1 or 2 days, or 1 doc for 10 days (quantity vs. quality to some extent)? Also, this may be a newbie question, but what kind of documentation do you need for these ECs for purposes of med school apps?

Again, thanks for the input. Nice to know I'm not the only one thinking along these lines.

 

[KMac]

My background is somewhat similar as well, although I chose at the last second not to attend a top MBA school that I got into (Fuqua) to give myself a shot at getting into an MD school, and my GPA is waaay lower (Engineering Major...ugh).

I recently got into 4 MD schools and have recently closed down my app and made a final choice on what school I'm going to attend, so you can definitely shift gears and go the medical route with a reasonable assumption of success. Luckily, I got myself into a teaching position a couple of years ago where I had time to take courses - I think this is important because I had an income where I could keep my lifestyle reasonably stable for my wife. I have had friends take research jobs or foundation work where they would have time - this might be an option for you after you finish your MBA - ask around.

Your experience will most likely make you a great candidate, as long as you can express it in such a way that it interests the admissions persons who looks at your app. Your grades and MCAT will determine whether they even give your app a look - so these, as nontrdgsbuiucmd said, are your top consideration.

The only problem is that you have to take a ton of pre med courses at the undergrad level - many schools will want to see some calculus and some college level english. At a minimum, I figure it you are on a two year timeline (with summers) to finish all of the gen chem, physics, bio, and ochem you need. You will also need to fit in some shadowing and volunteer work - I believe the local ER is the best way to do this.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Thanks Yollom and congrats on the acceptances. Yes I have a lot ahead of me should I choose to go down this path. I've got the Calculus and English taken care of (though I've found a few schools where my transcript might be problematic) so looking at full years of GenChem, OrgChem, Bio and Physics w/ labs. Pretty daunting, no doubt. Fortunately, I'm in a position where I don't need to make a jump off a cliff decision quite yet. In fact, I could probably enroll in a one-year post-bacc program immediately after b-school and if for some reason it doesn't work out, probably be no worse off career-wise (and potentially better off given my alternative aspirations). So that has me leaning heavily towards taking the plunge.