BSN to Premed

[PremedBSN]

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I wanted to touch base in this forum as I am also another nontraditional undergrad student looking to apply to medical school in the near future. I have a background in nursing as I initially graduated with my ADN in 2009 from a community college. Since then I've spent the majority of my 10 years in healthcare as an ICU RN. My whole focus when getting into the nursing field was to eventually become a CRNA, however after nursing school that changed to wanting to pursue healthcare administration and become a nurse manager, so I pursued undergrad credits in business, and finished nearly 2 year of a business undergrad. However seeing at how healthcare has changed to the business mindset over the past 10 years, over safe staffing for nurses, I don't think I have the heart for nursing administration and thus changed my focus a couple years ago to premed.

I finished my BSN through Grand Canyon University in 2016, and I currently have over 170 undergrad credits with a cumulative GPA of 3.62. I initially received 2 C's and a few B's prior to nursing school, but since I graduated nursing school in 2009 I've never received a grade below A in any course, including my business undergrad coursework, and nursing upper division coursework. I've taken a year of biology, a year of general chemistry, and am currently in my last semester of physics, and organic chemistry. My current BCPM GPA is 4.0 and in progress so I have yet to take my MCAT. As far as experience in healthcare I have over 10 years in acute care (nearly all in the ICU), and I currently also work part time for the local community college as a clinical nursing instructor for the nursing medical surgical rotation. I don't have very much volunteer work at all and the only research I've done was basically a meta review of current literature that was based on VAP bundles, for my BSN capstone. Would I need physician shadowing hours after 10 years working on the floor and side by side with intensivists?

I am nearing the age of 32, and while I could again focus on pursuing a graduate program in nursing as an CRNA, FNP, or ACNP;I feel that if I were to dedicate 3-4 years of my life towards graduate work, my heart wouldn't be fulfilled in a graduate nursing role and I'd want the full practice autonomy of an MD or DO.

I am wondering with my current GPA at 3.62 if I stand a chance of getting into a decent or any US based MD medical program. I see that more and more medical schools are now requiring more upper division biology and chemistry courses (i.e. year of biochem, cellular biology, genomics) on top of the standard year of chem, year of bio, year of o chem, and year of physics, and I really don't want to spend another year or 2 taking more undergrad pre requisites. I am located in NW Arizona so I was looking at initially applying to preferably MD program medical schools in my local geographical area (U of A, Loma Linda, UNLV, etc...), however relocating is not out of the question for the right program. As far as home life I hardly have any student loan debt, my wife is a DNP ACNP and is extremely supportive even though we plan on starting a family this year. I am just looking for insight based on my life experience and current GPA, if it will be feasible to get accepted into a US MD Medical Program (preferably a USN top 100 ranked MD program).

I also didn't include that I will be applying as a URM, however I'm not sure if that makes a difference in all of this.

 

[Talkbirthytome]

Yes it's feasible. You don't have to have research. Nurses usually don't have to have explicit shadowing because we work with physicians our entire careers, particularly in hospital settings. However, if you're going to say you want to go into X specialty that you haven't worked in, you need shadowing in that specialty.

Pick your schools carefully. Look up the LizzyM calculator and WARS calculator. They can give you an idea of which schools to apply to. Also, look at about 20 schools right now and see what their prerequisite requirements are. You might need one or two more specific classes in order to apply broadly. Double check.

Make sure you get involved in the community too. Volunteering is important.

You can also buy the AAMC MSAR to see the range of stats for accepted students.

 

[RNthenDoc]

I was a very similar applicant. Do amazing from this point out, and do not take the MCAT until you are ready! I took mine way too early.

If you get a solid MCAT score and everything else is in order + URM bonus, you’ll get into a nice MD school, I have no doubt.

 

[PremedBSN]

@Talkbirthytome Thank you for you insight. I wasn't aware of the Lizzy M or WARS calculator, and how it determines a rough score eligibility for what medical schools to apply to. I really appreciate your suggestions. I am going to purchase the AAMC MSAR in order to look at pre requisite eligibility for specific schools.

@RNthenDoc I appreciate your insight as well. I read over some of your posts. It is reassuring for me to know that as a similar applicant, you were able to get into a really great MD program. I am looking at hopefully getting into at least a mid tier MD program. I will take your advice and focus on MCAT prep. How long did you study prior to sitting?

 

[RNthenDoc]

@Talkbirthytome Thank you for you insight. I wasn't aware of the Lizzy M or WARS calculator, and how it determines a rough score eligibility for what medical schools to apply to. I really appreciate your suggestions. I am going to purchase the AAMC MSAR in order to look at pre requisite eligibility for specific schools.

@RNthenDoc I appreciate your insight as well. I read over some of your posts. It is reassuring for me to know that as a similar applicant, you were able to get into a really great MD program. I am looking at hopefully getting into at least a mid tier MD program. I will take your advice and focus on MCAT prep. How long did you study prior to sitting?

I only had a couple months, one of dedicated study time. My advice is to study for a lot longer than that. My biggest premed regret is not taking more time to study for the MCAT. I personally wish I would have held off on testing until my predictor scores were >510. It worked out in the end for me, but my options would have been far broader with a stronger MCAT.

 

[Blanky]

I would say that shadowing isn’t likely to be a big deal.
Volunteering will look good and doesn’t need to medically related.
I wouldn’t write my essays to explain why you didn’t like your other paths you have taken. Write your essays to explain how your path has driven your desire for medicine

 

[popopopop]

Shadowing will offer you more than you think, despite having bedside experiences.

 

[PremedBSN]

@Blanky Thank you for the sound advice on what to focus on in my essays. I guess with my own perception of myself, being a non traditional applicant with a nursing background, was that there would be somewhat of a criticism against not wanting to stay in the nursing field and pursue graduate studies. I figured I would preemptively try and explain that prior, but I can see how it would be more effective to explain how my path has driven my desire for medicine rather than the former.

@popopopop I'm not asking this to be arrogant, but in your opinion what are some things that I could gain by shadowing? Perhaps by shadowing outside of the realm I'm accustomed to in nursing, such as the outpatient clinic setting or perhaps the inpatient surgical setting? If it would help me as an applicant and give me an edge I don't mind coming on my days off in order to gain shadowing hours. Maybe it would show my humility as even though I am an experienced acute care nurse, obviously medicine is a completely different field, and I have respect to the fact that it is and respect for the application process. I am not trying to cut corners because of my background experience, and I do not feel that I am an exception. I am just trying to be as well prepared for the application process as possible while taking insight and recommendations from those who have prior experience.

 

[PremedBSN]

I only had a couple months, one of dedicated study time. My advice is to study for a lot longer than that. My biggest premed regret is not taking more time to study for the MCAT. I personally wish I would have held off on testing until my predictor scores were >510. It worked out in the end for me, but my options would have been far broader with a stronger MCAT.

@RNthenDoc I know you already have been accepted, but what were your feelings towards MCAT prep courses prior to sitting?

 

[Talkbirthytome]

Advice about prep courses: They are expensive and full of content review.

If you study well already, you may be able to make better use of your time and money.

You can buy a set of prep books for content review. Master the questions at the end of each chapter and then move on to the UWorld question bank. You can either buy their qbank or purchase the trial.

Then, move onto the AAMC question bank and then their three practice tests.

A lot of applicants spend too much time on content review and not enough on understanding how the test asks questions or reviewing their responses to check for understanding.

6 months of prep seems to be the average. A practice test once every week, starting 4-6 weeks before you sit may be a good "final stretch" plan. If you can review every single question you get right AND wrong to solidify your thinking and undo missteps, you'll be better off. This should help your score increase with each take.

Don't sit until you're scoring in your target range, which should be by your second test at the latest so you can reschedule the exam if needed.

 

[popopopop]

@popopopop[/USER] I'm not asking this to be arrogant, but in your opinion what are some things that I could gain by shadowing? Perhaps by shadowing outside of the realm I'm accustomed to in nursing, such as the outpatient clinic setting or perhaps the inpatient surgical setting? If it would help me as an applicant and give me an edge I don't mind coming on my days off in order to gain shadowing hours. Maybe it would show my humility as even though I am an experienced acute care nurse, obviously medicine is a completely different field, and I have respect to the fact that it is and respect for the application process. I am not trying to cut corners because of my background experience, and I do not feel that I am an exception. I am just trying to be as well prepared for the application process as possible while taking insight and recommendations from those who have prior experience.

It's not about humility or cutting corners. The enriching process of shadowing helped me tremendously and I'm glad I did it despite years in nursing, including ICU. Those docs I shadowed are role models and they inspire me to become the best doc I can be.

Nursing care is different than the medical model. Spending a few hours with a physician and being able to pick their thought process was so valuable for me. I saw them interacting with other physicians/consults, explain pathology to me, and their mindset when picking treatment modalities. Why did you order this medication vs x? How do you handle a difficult patient who only wants this? When would you consult for this? What lead you into medicine? What would you do differently as a medical student? What's the outlook for your field? etc etc...

ICU is one field in medicine, so are you interested in being an intensivist? My time in ICU was short, but I found it much different from the general floors and outpatient medicine. Either way, schools tend to like seeing experiences in primary care or at least diversified experiences. It doesn't have to be several hundred hours. Most students aim for 50-100 hours or so total of shadowing. Despite nursing being so intricately related to medicine, I've come across so many people that absolutely have no idea of what we do. They think of nursing as cleaning poop and pee. I don't doubt that the committee that will be evaluating your application will have people that may think the same way. What I'm saying is that there will be people looking at your app that might not know the difference between a nurse and an medical assistant, so don't think nursing experience puts you on a better playing field than a 20 year old who scribed for a year. It's putting too much in one basket when the competition is so massive.

Finally, shadowing has opened up many networking opportunities for me and who you know is definitely important in medicine. I even shadowed a physician during my last winter break because I was interested in her specialty.

I can't tell you to shadow, but I can tell you it wasn't a waste of my time.

 

[Ad2b]

When I shadowed a doc, I sat in his office while he charted, and read labs, and showed my all the things he had to do outside an exam room.

Time spent with patients on avg per day? 7ish

Time spent charting and reading and dictating and reviewing? 4 - 5

I would never have known that without following them around all day and I learned some other things about the profession that I didn't know (insurance companies suck)😛

 

[RNthenDoc]

@RNthenDoc I know you already have been accepted, but what were your feelings towards MCAT prep courses prior to sitting?

I think they OBJECTIVELY are helpful, it’s just a question of if they are helpful enough to justify the cost and time.

If you have lots of extra money and aren’t in a particular time crunch, I think they can only help.

I wish I knew about ANKI for MCAT prep. You can literally download Anki for free right now, AND find great MCAT decks for free right now. If I would have known that, it would have helped me to have a lot better rigid structure for studying.

 

[PremedBSN]

@Talkbirthytome I kinda expected that they would be somewhat expensive. I have some friends that took Kaplan and some that took the Princeton and they scored rather well on their MCAT 510-512 range, but I also have a friend that studied for a month on his own and scored around 500. Did you personally take a prep course or did you rely just on studying on your own? I will be starting MCAT prep in May once the semester is over and study through the summer most likely before sitting. It's somewhat interesting that my current O-chem professor was a Princeton Review teacher, so I've been picking his brain as well, but I'm not sure if he is a little bit pro biased towards review courses because of the fact.

@popopopop How many years were you nursing? Are you still practicing nursing? I agree and understand the nursing model is much different that the medical model. Usually when Im on shift I try and pick the brain of the hospitalists and intensivists and ask them questions regarding medical treatments, patho, as well as why they got into medicine, and if the specialty was what they really wanted to match into, just to learn a little bit of their personal feelings about and towards medicine.

As far as critical care medicine, I'm not really sure if that's the kind of medicine I'd like to practice once I get accepted graduate. I've left everything on the table as of now with the exception of pediatrics and obstetrics/gynecology. You are correct in your analysis of other individual's perception of the nursing profession. Despite what some may think, I can speak as far as in the intensive care unit, nurses do have a certain level of autonomy in the sense of protocol management of vasoactive drips and medical treatments (i.e. electrolyte replacements, ventilator management). I agree that networking may open up some networking opportunities after school, especially in a respective field you may be interested in. I respect your insight and how you elaborated on how shadowing was helpful to you specifically. Thank you!

@Ad2b I think you touched on something that is not talked about a lot. Although my wife is not a physician, she is a provider and the time she spends on charting and dictating, is significant overall in relation to her actual time spent in rooms with her patients. Insurance and reimbursement seems to becoming more and more of a harsh reality in the clinic and acute care setting, and as an employee of a for profit facility, it directly has affected my attitude towards evidence based nursing practices .

@RNthenDoc I understand yours as well as others take, in that it seems that for the price of a review course, f you have the fortitude that similar results can be achieved on MCAT for much less cost. I think I was just asking because when I graduated nursing school the only thing I studied was a Hearst review course content prior to sitting for NCLEX and passing. I appreciate your suggestions with Anki and the MCAT flash card decks!

 

[Talkbirthytome]

I'll PM you if I can.

 

[ksquad3]

You can absolutely get into medical school and, with your professional background/education, you'll make an excellent physician. Do not give up on your goal!

I'm a 'nontraditional' student and currently finishing my 4th year of med school. I fell in love with reconstructive microsurgery and will find out where I match in 2 weeks! I'm 34 (soon to be 35) and going to med school as an older student has been a truly awesome experience. I'm currently rotating at a site that has an MS-3 who is 39 and he plans to do pediatrics. He loves being in med school too. Do not let your age or any characteristics of your professional/educational background hold you back.

If you (or anyone else) needs/wants advice from a nontraditional student, please feel free to PM me on IG (kristinakalilily). Happy to help anytime!

 

[Nurse2MD2018]

You definitely have what it takes and should go for it! Biochem will help you on the MCAT, definitely worth taking.
Also, I did not shadow but my clinical experience encompasses both critical care and ambulatory care. I don't think it hindered me in any way. Your life experience will be beneficial throughout this process, it will be adventitious in the emotional upheaval that you will face. I found that I was more at ease and confident in my abilities compared to other younger premeds. You will quickly realize this process is not as dire as most students make it and that mental advantage alone will ground you to accept successes and failures alike.
Best of luck on your journey.