BU vs Dartmouth - NEED HELP ASAP!

[Odysseus]

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[ORTHO4ME]

-are there a lot of opportunities in the boston area for health management?


- dartmouth is ivy league. will that mean anything?

- Im also considering jefferson. any thoughts?

THANK YOU!

please go to bu, i am on dartmouth waiting list! 🙂..in all seriousness, im sure there are more opportunities in the boston area.

 

[healthpro1896]

Boston has the highest concentration of hospitals, medical reasearch facilities and pharmaceutical company presence per capita compared to any major metropolitan area in the US.

Massachusetts, as an individual region/state, has the highest spending on health care ($62 billion - 2006) in the US, more than most countries' entire spending.

Add to all that excellent educational health research facilities of Harvard, Boston and Tufts universities, and I think you have quite an extensive availability of health care employment and opportunities.

FWIW any serious employer, well-informed about public health programs, and looking at you for a degree specific job, will not give much importance to the Ivy League association, imho.

 

[dut99002]

This may or may not mean anything, but Hanover (Dartmouth) is only a few hours drive from Boston. While obviously BU is literally located within Boston and will also have ties to Boston-area healthcare jobs/institutions, etc., I highly doubt that Dartmouth will be completely void of any Boston connections and I also doubt that it's semi-remote location will be a huge detriment.

I'm not trying to say that BU is better or worse than Dartmouth, but don't automatically discount Dartmouth because of its location--which in reality isn't so far away from Boston that you'll be severely limited in post-graduation opportunities. At least in the business world, I am aware of many prestigious companies that make the trip out to Hanover every year to recruit their grads.

 

[briy61]

The benefit of having resources like hospitals and institutions near you is more than likely only realized during your practicum.

Most of your time for the first year (if you go to BU) will be spent in class. My roommate was at the BU program and loved it, so I'm not saying it's a bad place to be, but don't confuse being at BU with utilizing all or any of the hospitals / institutions during the coursework portion of the program.

Dartmouth is also a one year program (9 months) starting in July and ending the following Spring, so you are done before BU MPH students even start their second year.

Also, if you go to Dartmouth, you will still have to do a practicum, and you can make a case for doing that anywhere, including Boston, which is only 2 hours from Hanover by shuttle bus.

I'd go to Dartmouth, not because of the Ivy tag, but because it's fast, and you still get to take advantage of the resources Boston has to offer (if you choose to do so). Remember, you're also only 6 hours from NY, and 3 hours from Providence, and your practicum can be done anywhere.

 

[johnnyquest2009]

Both are great programs. Look at the classes,faculty and see which one fits who you are, and do not decide because of length or location. To the average person Dartmouth has the ivy league name, but whoever you end up working for will know that Boston U is a good program too. Like someone else stated both programs are in/fairly near Boston. However if you plan to do any internships during the school year Boston U might be easier.

I am picking Boston (I think) because it offers alot of is classes after 6:00pm so I can also hold down some type of job. BU is about 40% part-time and they make it a point to still work with those who cant be present during the 9-5 time frame which many schools do not do. Good luck deciding. But with those two choices I really dont think you can go wrong.

 

[DrChimRichalds]

please go to bu, i am on dartmouth waiting list!

I would be very surprised if you didn't get in. They'll keep pulling people off the waiting list into May/June, so I wouldn't sweat it.

 

[DrChimRichalds]

The benefit of having resources like hospitals and institutions near you is more than likely only realized during your practicum.

Most of your time for the first year (if you go to BU) will be spent in class. My roommate was at the BU program and loved it, so I'm not saying it's a bad place to be, but don't confuse being at BU with utilizing all or any of the hospitals / institutions during the coursework portion of the program.

Dartmouth is also a one year program (9 months) starting in July and ending the following Spring, so you are done before BU MPH students even start their second year.

Also, if you go to Dartmouth, you will still have to do a practicum, and you can make a case for doing that anywhere, including Boston, which is only 2 hours from Hanover by shuttle bus.

I'd go to Dartmouth, not because of the Ivy tag, but because it's fast, and you still get to take advantage of the resources Boston has to offer (if you choose to do so). Remember, you're also only 6 hours from NY, and 3 hours from Providence, and your practicum can be done anywhere.

The Dartmouth program is technically 11 months, you start in July and graduate in June. But you do get 30 days off between the fall and winter terms, so it's actually only 10 months of actual program work.

MPH students are required to do an internship in the spring, this can be done ANYWHERE the student wants as long as the student can arrange it. Several Dartmouth MPH students did theirs overseas. Others were able to arrange an internship in their home states so they could go back home. You don't have to take any classes in the Spring (you can if you want to, but its not required), so it's pretty much devoted to the Internship and writing your thesis.

If you wanted to do your internship in Boston or NYC or any other city, you can as long as you can arrange something. But there are lots of opportunities around Hanover. A lot of people stay there and do something at Dartmouth Hitchcock Medical Center, which is the largest hospital in Northern New England. There's other stuff too, you can do stuff through the Medical School or the VA or the with the Health Department in Vermont or New Hampshire, etc.

 

[Amelia]

Both are great programs. Look at the classes,faculty and see which one fits who you are, and do not decide because of length or location. To the average person Dartmouth has the ivy league name, but whoever you end up working for will know that Boston U is a good program too. Like someone else stated both programs are in/fairly near Boston.

The Dartmouth program is more respected that the BU program which is gigantic cattle call, i.e. BU doesn't offer the personalized mentoring that other MPH programs do, . . . if you just want to go off and study and take courses then BU is for you, but if you want a more integrated and friendly faculty then go to Dartmouth hands down, also Darthmouth is better recognized.

 

[DrChimRichalds]

The Dartmouth program is more respected that the BU program which is gigantic cattle call, i.e. BU doesn't offer the personalized mentoring that other MPH programs do, . . . if you just want to go off and study and take courses then BU is for you, but if you want a more integrated and friendly faculty then go to Dartmouth hands down, also Darthmouth is better recognized.

Dartmouth is better recognized in the field of Health services research, health policy and health care decision making. The Dartmouth MPH is not like a traditional MPH. If you are interested in environmental health or something like that, you'd be better off at BU because you won't get much of that at Dartmouth. If you like health policy stuff and QI (quality improvement), definitely do Dartmouth because you will get a TON of that at Dartmouth.

 

[smileydoc542]

dutt99002....you mentioned that prestigious companies recruit at dartmouth....is this for consulting positions? would you mind sharing what kinds of companies these were, and do they give as much attention as they would to students in health management and policy tracks at other schools? thanks!!

 

[DrChimRichalds]

dutt99002....you mentioned that prestigious companies recruit at dartmouth....is this for consulting positions? would you mind sharing what kinds of companies these were, and do they give as much attention as they would to students in health management and policy tracks at other schools? thanks!!

He mentioned the business world, I believe he was referring to Tuck School of Business. Tuck students are indeed recruited by top companies. But then again, they're MBA students and not MPH. I'm not aware of any active recruitment by companies taking place at the Dartmouth MPH program.

That's not to say you can't get a job at a big corporation with a Dartmouth MPH. I am aware of Dartmouth MPH graduates and soon-to-be graduates who are getting jobs in the private sector with big name corporations, but they went out and applied for them like everyone else. No one came to them.

 

[smileydoc542]

ohhh i see...thanks for the clarification!! that helps 🙂

 

[dut99002]

dutt99002....you mentioned that prestigious companies recruit at dartmouth....is this for consulting positions? would you mind sharing what kinds of companies these were, and do they give as much attention as they would to students in health management and policy tracks at other schools? thanks!!

My info is based purely on what I've read at Dartmouth's websites and a handful of anecdotal evidence. Dartmouth does have a top ten business school (Tuck), as was mentioned above so I do know that some of the most "prestigious" companies come to recruit Tuck grads and undergrads as well (Bain, Mckinsey, Boston Consulting Group, etc.).

Myself, I'm interested in their MS in Healthcare Leadership and am also interested in healthcare-related management consulting. I am unable to go out to Hanover right now to investigate for myself, but I have been able to get info from another member of the forum who told me the following:

"McKinsey came and did a presentation and we're always getting notices from our career-services department about jobs and opportunities and they'll help you find a job. The best bet for consulting/business is to go through the undergraduate corporate recruiting program, which has hundreds of employers interviewing on campus, many in the health care sector (or with health care-related divisions). The companies place you according to your education level, so you would likely land a more senior/lucrative position over an undergraduate (although they do pretty well coming out of Dartmouth)."

Is it possible to go from a Dartmouth MPH/MS (in healthcare) to consulting? It sounds like it. I can't say for sure if many companies would come specifically for MPH/MS students, BUT it sounds like public health students can get noticed with the mgt. consulting firms via undergrad recruiting and some footwork on their own.

It is a very respectable name in the business world and is relatively close to NYC and Boston where many, many consulting companies have offices and headquarters, so it looks like it provides favorable opportunities.

At least that's what I've heard.

 

[erikw]

I have a friend who is doing her MPH at Dartmouth and she is enjoying her time there a lot.I have friends at BU as well who like it there. So it depends on your personality and what you want to study.

But if you want to get into consultancy and such, go to a school with better connections with the private sector. Since Dartmouth is Ivy League and has Tuck, you'll have better opportunity to make connections with alumni in the business world but then again, since you'll be in Hanover for just a year that might be a limiting factor as far as making connections goes. On the other hand, BU is in Boston and the city has great healthcare opportunities.

These were some of the same things that I was mulling over. Good luck.

 

[johnnyquest2009]

BU's School of Management is also well known.

 

[MarathonsRcool]

im heading to dartmouth. its the only school i applied to, cant wait.

 

[Cster0905]

The Dartmouth program is more respected that the BU program which is gigantic cattle call, i.e. BU doesn't offer the personalized mentoring that other MPH programs do, . . . if you just want to go off and study and take courses then BU is for you, but if you want a more integrated and friendly faculty then go to Dartmouth hands down, also Darthmouth is better recognized.

This is a pretty bold and incorrect generalization.

The "quality" and "value" of each MPH program and the school offering said degree really depends on the discipline/specialization. As someone else pointed out in response to this statement, BU is probably much stronger in certain fields (e.g., Epi, Biostat) than Dartmouth, and vice versa.

I don't think it's fair to call BU a "cattle call" and assert one will get no one-on-one attention at BU compared to Dartmouth. BU is a very well-respected SPH for a reason and that achievement certainly doesn't stem from herding as many people as possible through their doors. Please elaborate on such a claim, otherwise it seems unfounded.

To the original poster, please ignore this comment. Dartmouth's position as an Ivy is a very insignificant indicator. A small school doesn't necessarily mean great personal contact; it could mean the school doesn't have fully developed departments across the board.

My advice would be to look at the field you're interested in, ask around, look at publications, and ascertain which school provides the stronger program. I'm all for Dartmouth if it really excels in your interests; however, as nice as it would be to have the name on your diploma, going to Dartmouth may deprive you of the experience, networking, and faculty of BU if they, in fact, have the better program.

Just my $.02.

 

[MarathonsRcool]

if you want to work for one of the big companies, like mkinsey..etc, pedigree is VERY important. personally, i dont think it should matter, but it does. this may not matter depending on where you want to work and with which firm/company.

 

[Cster0905]

if you want to work for one of the big companies, like mkinsey..etc, pedigree is VERY important. personally, i dont think it should matter, but it does. this may not matter depending on where you want to work and with which firm/company.

Oh yeah, definitely. I agree completely. But if the OP wants to do Epi research, the name may not mean the same.

If Dartmouth has a great business school and strong business/management/admin roots and that's what they want to study, then it sounds like it would be the choice between the two.

 

[DrChimRichalds]

The "quality" and "value" of each MPH program and the school offering said degree really depends on the discipline/specialization. As someone else pointed out in response to this statement, BU is probably much stronger in certain fields (e.g., Epi, Biostat) than Dartmouth, and vice versa.

I don't think it's fair to call BU a "cattle call" and assert one will get no one-on-one attention at BU compared to Dartmouth. BU is a very well-respected SPH for a reason and that achievement certainly doesn't stem from herding as many people as possible through their doors. Please elaborate on such a claim, otherwise it seems unfounded.

To the original poster, please ignore this comment. Dartmouth's position as an Ivy is a very insignificant indicator. A small school doesn't necessarily mean great personal contact; it could mean the school doesn't have fully developed departments across the board.

My advice would be to look at the field you're interested in, ask around, look at publications, and ascertain which school provides the stronger program. I'm all for Dartmouth if it really excels in your interests; however, as nice as it would be to have the name on your diploma, going to Dartmouth may deprive you of the experience, networking, and faculty of BU if they, in fact, have the better program.

Just my $.02.

I would have to agree with this. When considering Dartmouth, it is important to remember that the MPH/MS program is administered through the Medical School. Dartmouth does not have its own School of Public Health, BU does. BU's School of Public Health was also highly ranked in the U.S. News & World Report graduate school rankings. Nobody should discount BU just because it isn't an Ivy League school. You are probably going to have access to a wider variety of classes/resources at BU than at Dartmouth because BU has a formal school of public health.

Also, the Dartmouth program is relatively new (about 10 years) and thus is still in a growing phase. There are only a limited number of Dartmouth MS/MPH alumni out there (<600). There are probably way more alumni of BU's program and thus the BU program is probably more well-known within public health circles.

I'll conclude by saying if you want to do traditional public health stuff, research, enviro health, epi/bio, etc...go to BU. If you are really interested in health policy, health care quality improvement, health care leadership, health care decision making, etc, go to Dartmouth.

 

[healthpro1896]

BU's School of Management is also well known.

I'll second that.... the BU SOM has amazing placement rates for its MBA grads, and the usual prestigious firms recruit there (McKinsey, BCG included - these seem to be a favourite of people on these forums). If you are doing the management/policy track, the SOM's Feld Career Center will work with you since your qualification is management/administration related, even though they normally work with SOM grads only. This will be in addition to BUSPH's own career office.

 

[dut99002]

I'll second that.... the BU SOM has amazing placement rates for its MBA grads, and the usual prestigious firms recruit there (McKinsey, BCG included - these seem to be a favourite of people on these forums). If you are doing the management/policy track, the SOM's Feld Career Center will work with you since your qualification is management/administration related, even though they normally work with SOM grads only. This will be in addition to BUSPH's own career office.

If the goal of an attendee of BU's MPH (or MBA program for that matter) is to get hired by Mckinsey, Boston Consulting Group, Bain, etc., then they are fighting a steep, uphill battle. Not impossible, but it would be very difficult.

BU SOM posted this list of companies who recruit their MBAs:

http://management.bu.edu/careers/graduate/recruiting/companies.html

Mckinsey, Bain and BCG are not listed. These three are considered the "big 3" of management consulting and they generally take only superstars from a select number of schools. They only recruit heavily from literally a handful of MBA programs (e.g., Harvard, Penn, Colum., Chicago, Northwestern, Stanford, MIT, Dartmouth) and quite a few more undergraduate business programs, but even then it's very difficult to get an offer (or to be even considered for that matter).

I've personally known 10 or so guys who've worked for one of the 3 and all of the MBA's I met had graduated from either Harvard or Penn's MBA program and all of those who went from undergraduate had very, very high GPAs (summa cum laude/magna cum laude), very high test scores (90th percentile or better). This is purely anecdotal, so take it for what it's worth.

I wanted to get into Mckinsey myself a few years back, but after talking to one Bain consultant at length I realized that my GPA and school name were both 'not good enough' (>3.6 and a small, private western school). That's basically what he very indirectly and softly implied when he said, "It's very, very difficult to break the recruitment pattern that is already set."

I don't mean to start the thread going farther down a tangent about consulting rather purely BU vs. Dartmouht and I don't mean to demean BU's programs, which I agree, are very strong.

On a side note, there are listed a few very good consultancies on the list I linked to above who recruit BU graduate students (IBM, Deloitte Consulting, Accenture). They're considered tier 2 or maybe 3, but they're no slouch by any means.

In the end you should just go to which program will help you best achieve your professional/personal goals and which will make you ultimately happy.

 

[MarathonsRcool]

Oh yeah, definitely. I agree completely. But if the OP wants to do Epi research, the name may not mean the same.

If Dartmouth has a great business school and strong business/management/admin roots and that's what they want to study, then it sounds like it would be the choice between the two.

yup. spot on.

 

[pedriqua]

Hi, i was reading this thread and my brother is in the same position;

he is on the waiting list for dartmouth and he hasnt heard yet...should he be doing anything to make sure he gets in besides calling?
he told me that when he called before, they had told him the waiting list was around 10 people( in late april)....does that mean his chances are good? when would he most likely hear from them?