Bullying Culture of Medical School

[surgeryDO]

I see this has been posted in the pre-MD forum but I wanted to post it here and see what kind of discussion comes of it.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/09/the-bullying-culture-of-medical-school/

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[MedPR]

I see this has been posted in the pre-MD forum but I wanted to post it here and see what kind of discussion comes of it.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/09/the-bullying-culture-of-medical-school/

Bullying is everywhere. Who cares?

 

[nicolemsm]

Bullying is everywhere. Who cares?

apparently a ton of people who raised over 600 k for the hard of hearing granny who was bullied by brat middle schoolers back in June [http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/21/us/new-york-bullied-bus-monitor/index.html]

 

[dntke1518]

Bullying is everywhere. Who cares?

If you are surviving on SDN you can take the bullying in med school.

 

[JaBoomDay]

...

 

[michow87]

If you're still in rotations, it's probably best not to fight with the physician that will be doing your assessment at the end of the 4-8 weeks

Also, it's like with any career. Keep your mouth shut and don't fight with those above you until you're at the top. Even then, you should maintain composure at all times. You're supposed to be a professional

 

[Poliscidoc]

.

 

[Kvothe]

My pops said during pathology residency a neurosurgeon threw tools at his face because he spoke during the operation lol

Medical training isn't for soft, sensitive folks

 

[HalfListic]

Im going to be honest, bullying doesn't get to me one bit. BUT, when I see someone get bullied who has poor coping mechanisms, and would otherwise be excelling, that gets under my skin in a big way.

I think that, while effective, this form of "teaching" is somewhat primitive. I think the competition of residency is motive enough, and I can't see how public humiliation, etc, would be the most appropriate deterrent. We don't want to cultivate fear, just humility...then to build that into skill and confidence.

I think the community is beginning to realize that certain areas of medical training are needlessly "hardcore". Don't get me wrong, I love a challenge, but I'm glad it became apparent that 100 hour weeks and boot camp style training isn't the most sophisticated route for training physicians.

Standards will always be high, but the profession continues to mature.

 

[chiddler]

I wonder how adult chiddler would react to bullying. The only time it happened to me was in middle school.

I also find it amusing that the same doctors who were abused during their residency end up abusing others. For shame.

 

[MedPR]

Being bullied builds character and makes you stronger. End of story.

 

[HalfListic]

Being bullied builds character and makes you stronger. End of story.

I know you like to shock people a bit by being blunt, but your opinion isn't accurate here.

Bullying is like spanking your child. Does it work? Sure. Are there ether option...Yes.

We are too intelligent to rely on bullying to "build character"

 

[Poliscidoc]

.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Being bullied builds character and makes you stronger. End of story.

But it doesn't make you taller. You're still 5'8".

Did that build your character? No. Why would anyone use an outdated method like that when we know optimal results are found with positive reinforcement?

 

[MedPR]

I know you like to shock people a bit by being blunt, but your opinion isn't accurate here.

Bullying is like spanking your child. Does it work? Sure. Are there ether option...Yes.

We are too intelligent to rely on bullying to "build character"

But it doesn't make you taller. You're still 5'8".

Did that build your character? No. Why would anyone use an outdated method like that when we know optimal results are found with positive reinforcement?

I didn't say that bullying should be encouraged or relied upon, did I? I said bullying builds character. Would you all agree that adversity, obstacles, and challenges build character? Wouldn't you also agree that bullying is an example of a challenge/obstacle/adversity?

 

[TriagePreMed]

I didn't say that bullying should be encouraged or relied upon, did I? I said bullying builds character. Would you all agree that adversity, obstacles, and challenges build character? Wouldn't you also agree that bullying is an example of a challenge/obstacle/adversity?

Now you're trying to generalize on a very specific topic of medical training. Guess what also builds character? Good things, and by all measures, it builds it better.

 

[MedPR]

Now you're trying to generalize on a very specific topic of medical training. Guess what also builds character? Good things, and by all measures, it builds it better.

A specific topic of medical training? All I'm saying is bullying builds character. I don't know of any studies that show good things (or bad things) build character, but I'll take your word for it.

If being told you aren't good enough breaks you, then you probably really weren't good enough.

 

[coolingglasses]

Hah, I've seen this plenty. Guarantee you those same physicians lose their temper toward other staff, too.

 

[MedPR]

Obviously everyone should strive to be respectful and caring of others, but that doesn't mean bullying is deserving of special attention. Sure it sucks, but there are far worse things in the world.

 

[HalfListic]

Obviously everyone should strive to be respectful and caring of others, but that doesn't mean bullying is deserving of special attention. Sure it sucks, but there are far worse things in the world.

So, whats your stance? Earlier it was, bullying is good-it builds character. Now it's, bullying is not a big enough deal to worry about?

I think both are wrong, just wanted to see which one to correct

 

[ValentineLissar]

I definitely think that bullying is a terrible form of "teaching," and I think it's a sloppy excuse for those older physicians who clearly have a problem. It's rude, immature, and completely unprofessional.

Yes, learning is going to inherently involve making mistakes but using bullying to deter an individual to not make the mistake twice might be effective, it causes far more harm than good. The obvious problem is that it creates tension, a lack of distrust, and damages the person's self esteem. Yes, I know that everyone's adults, but seriously, it always sucks to be publicly humiliated in front of your peers and professional colleagues.

 

[TriagePreMed]

A specific topic of medical training? All I'm saying is bullying builds character. I don't know of any studies that show good things (or bad things) build character, but I'll take your word for it.

If being told you aren't good enough breaks you, then you probably really weren't good enough.

Dude, it's common sense that negative reinforcement is not as good as positive. It's not about it "breaking you." You live in this little bubble of extremes and controversial statements. Seriously, what happened to you? You use to be this nice, dorky kid that was paranoid and making 20 threads a day about minute details of your application, including help with your personal statement.

 

[HalfListic]

I definitely think that bullying is a terrible form of "teaching," and I think it's a sloppy excuse for those older physicians who clearly have a problem. It's rude, immature, and completely unprofessional.

Yes, learning is going to inherently involve making mistakes but using bullying to deter an individual to not make the mistake twice might be effective, it causes far more harm than good. The obvious problem is that it creates tension, a lack of distrust, and damages the person's self esteem. Yes, I know that everyone's adults, but seriously, it always sucks to be publicly humiliated in front of your peers and professional colleagues.

Well put.

Also, aside from the damage it possible could do, lets pretend that everyone had really thick skin, and weren't bothered by bullying. Would it be the right choice even then?

The answer is no. The reason bullying is the wrong choice isn't because we need to be sensitive to others feelings (though, obviously we should be), the real reason is because positive reinforcement works better than positive punishment(which is what bullying is)!

Positive Punishment vs Positive Reinforcement isn't even considered a modern discussion in psychology now. They are studied in the same way spanking is, or the Stanley Milgram experiment, which is to say, they are studied as history lessons, as what not to do or even, wow, we used to be stupid.

 

[MedPR]

So, whats your stance? Earlier it was, bullying is good-it builds character. Now it's, bullying is not a big enough deal to worry about?

I think both are wrong, just wanted to see which one to correct

My stance isn't that bullying is necessarily good. My stance is that bullying exists and always will exist so we might as well make the best of it.

Dude, it's common sense that negative reinforcement is not as good as positive. It's not about it "breaking you." You live in this little bubble of extremes and controversial statements. Seriously, what happened to you? You use to be this nice, dorky kid that was paranoid and making 20 threads a day about minute details of your application, including help with your personal statement.

Maybe our definitions of positive/negative reinforcement are different.

Positive reinforcement = get a nice thing when you accomplish something. For example, a dog gets a treat when he does a trick.

Negative reinforcement = bad thing taken away when you accomplish something. For example, a dog gets his leash removed when he obeys the "sit and stay" command.

Punishment and negative reinforcement aren't the same. A parent spanking a child when the child does a bad thing is punishment, not negative reinforcement. A parent absolving a child of chores for a week as a reward for getting a 4.0 is negative reinforcement. Bullying is neither positive nor negative reinforcement. I'm not saying that bullying should be used to build character. I'm saying that bullying happens and overcoming it, just like overcoming any obstacle, builds character. I'm not sure how that is an extreme or controversial.

Perhaps you would rather be given a cookie (positive reinforcement). I, however, would rather not have to wash the dishes tonight (negative reinforcement).

Also, I'm still just as paranoid. I've learned to use the search function though and now I don't create as many threads as I used to.

 

[coolingglasses]

Also, I'm still just as paranoid. I've learned to use the search function though and now I don't create as many threads as I used to.

Ah, the hallmark of any populated forum

 

[MedPR]

Dude, it's common sense that negative reinforcement is not as good as positive. It's not about it "breaking you." You live in this little bubble of extremes and controversial statements. Seriously, what happened to you? You use to be this nice, dorky kid that was paranoid and making 20 threads a day about minute details of your application, including help with your personal statement.

Also, I'm not sure where we disagree about bullying being about breaking people. Isn't that what bullies want? To put people down and break them? Bullying is almost analogous to athletic training. Coaches and trainers push athletes to their physical limits in order to make them better at their game or sport. Obviously a bully's intentions are not the same, but bullies can push people to their emotional/psychological limit. What happens when you reach a limit? You break, or you get stronger. So the bully either breaks you, or you use the experience as a character building opportunity.

I'm still missing how or why that is controversial. I'm merely taking a negative thing and getting something positive out of it.

 

[HalfListic]

My stance isn't that bullying is necessarily good. My stance is that bullying exists and always will exist so we might as well make the best of it.
.

Ok, cool. I see where you are trying to go...though your comments are misleadingly "pro-bully", but I can look past it now


But, luckily, bullying is actually dying out. It wont always exist as a legitimate, or acceptable, teaching tool as it once was and still at times is. Even the military is abandoning the practice.

Yeah for a maturing culture...



edit: for understanding positive/negative punishment/reinforcement:

 

[MedPR]

Ok, cool. I see where you are trying to go...though your comments are misleadingly "pro-bully", but I can look past it now


But, luckily, bullying is actually dying out. It wont always exist as a legitimate, or acceptable, teaching tool as it once was and still at times is. Even the military is abandoning the practice.

Yeah for a maturing culture...

Idk if it's dying out, but it is definitely becoming less blatant. Bullying can be something as simple as your senior resident reminding you that they have a hand in your clinical evaluation when you refuse to get them a cup of coffee.

 

[HalfListic]

Idk if it's dying out, but it is definitely becoming less blatant. Bullying can be something as simple as your senior resident reminding you that they have a hand in your clinical evaluation when you refuse to get them a cup of coffee.

It is dying out...

and thats not bullying. Really thats an implied negative punishment. But, regardless, those interactions are not what is being discussed. We are addressing the verbal insults and public humiliations that have been common in the past.

 

[surgeryDO]

+1

I wasn't sharing this article for the purpose of sympathy or whatever MedPR thought. I was simply sharing because I found it interesting that finally new teaching methods may be on the horizon. I, for one, was not looking forward to being treated in such an immature, unprofessional, and tyrannical maner while trying to learn the practice of medicine. I don't think that medical students need to be spoon fed, but I do agree with the article that the teaching methods need some serious upgrades. Bullying in the learning of such a critical profession holds no positive regards IMO. I can appreciate challenges and hurdles but I do not need to be mistreated in the process of overcoming them.

Im going to be honest, bullying doesn't get to me one bit. BUT, when I see someone get bullied who has poor coping mechanisms, and would otherwise be excelling, that gets under my skin in a big way.

I think that, while effective, this form of "teaching" is somewhat primitive. I think the competition of residency is motive enough, and I can't see how public humiliation, etc, would be the most appropriate deterrent. We don't want to cultivate fear, just humility...then to build that into skill and confidence.

I think the community is beginning to realize that certain areas of medical training are needlessly "hardcore". Don't get me wrong, I love a challenge, but I'm glad it became apparent that 100 hour weeks and boot camp style training isn't the most sophisticated route for training physicians.

Standards will always be high, but the profession continues to mature.

 

[MedPR]

+1

I wasn't sharing this article for the purpose of sympathy or whatever MedPR thought. I was simply sharing because I found it interesting that finally new teaching methods may be on the horizon. I, for one, was not looking forward to being treated in such an immature, unprofessional, and tyrannical maner while trying to learn the practice of medicine. I don't think that medical students need to be spoon fed, but I do agree with the article that the teaching methods need some serious upgrades. Bullying in the learning of such a critical profession holds no positive regards IMO. I can appreciate challenges and hurdles but I do not need to be mistreated in the process of overcoming them.

I was just saying that you can learn a lot about yourself when someone bullies you.

 

[ValentineLissar]

Also, I'm not sure where we disagree about bullying being about breaking people. Isn't that what bullies want? To put people down and break them? Bullying is almost analogous to athletic training. Coaches and trainers push athletes to their physical limits in order to make them better at their game or sport. Obviously a bully's intentions are not the same, but bullies can push people to their emotional/psychological limit. What happens when you reach a limit? You break, or you get stronger. So the bully either breaks you, or you use the experience as a character building opportunity.

I'm still missing how or why that is controversial. I'm merely taking a negative thing and getting something positive out of it.

I think the problem that people have with your views is that you're condoning bullying as an acceptable practice in medical training. It's something to be put up with and not changed because it's part of the status quo.

But I think what others are implying, myself included, is that bullying shouldn't be an accepted practice, and people should develop productive ways to move past the issue. I mean this is a profession where everyone is supposed to caring after others and to have some people treat their own brethren (students, staff) so callously is a contradiction on many levels.


As for trying to put a positive spin on bullying, I think you can't. The bullying is awful period.

When you bully, you humiliate and belittle others. It's not even about teaching, creating negative re-enforcement or even about building character. It's about stripping away a person's dignity for your own gratification.




By the way, thanks Halflistic for your stamp of approval!

 

[HalfListic]

By the way, thanks Halflistic for your stamp of approval!

 

[Mr Kenobi]

I was just saying that you can learn a lot about yourself when someone bullies you.

Bullys usually learn a lot about me too

 

[Ost3oclast]

I had a bully in pre-school, i ended up hitting him in the face with a plastic baseball bat. I never had another bully.

 

[NonTraditional3]

I didn't say that bullying should be encouraged or relied upon, did I? I said bullying builds character. Would you all agree that adversity, obstacles, and challenges build character? Wouldn't you also agree that bullying is an example of a challenge/obstacle/adversity?

No. It doesn't necessarily build character. It can build resentment and hatred, and then 12 people get murdered in a movie theatre.

 

[Mr Kenobi]

I had a bully in pre-school, i ended up hitting him in the face with a plastic baseball bat. I never had another bully.

I like your style.

 

[HM3]

Bullying builds character? That's the dumbest **** I've ever read. More like build the ego of those doing the bullying. From bootcamp to eas, I've witnessed bullying in the military ranging from simple name calling to death threats. Nothing productive ever came from it.

 

[HM3]

My pops said during pathology residency a neurosurgeon threw tools at his face because he spoke during the operation lol

Medical training isn't for soft, sensitive folks

The sad thing about this is that the type of individual who would respond to correct the surgeon's actions is the type of individual the surgeon would never do this to. I'm sorry to say, but your father was a coward.

 

[psychgirrrl]

One of my professor in undergrad was a bully.

He did very awful things to me including throwing my calculator at me and telling me my product was trash. Every time I had his class I went in the bathroom and had a small panic attack, cried, puked then put a brave face on and went to lab.

I hated lab and became extremely uncomfortable in any laboratory situation. I ended up getting a good grade in the class and excelling in the exams, but I can tell you it wasn't because of the way he treated me it was because I knew my goals and I as I sat in the bathroom crying and puking out my nerves I told my self to just go through with it and that it didn't matter that he had made me cry in front of all my classmates the day before. I was going to become a doctor and he was going to be a bully for the rest of his life.

I don't think bullying is an effective form of teaching. As I have said before, I work in the education field right now and have worked with special needs children. As the teacher, you want to be the one to form a positive relationship with your students in order to provide them the best opportunity to learn. Yeah, bullying is always going to exist but I don't think the teacher should be the bully. The teacher should be someone we can look up to and who pushes us in the right way to learn.

I am a pretty though cookie, but I know other people who were bullied by that same man and ended up dropping out of the class and giving up. I sincerely think this is a waste of talent and potential. Now, some can say they sucked in the first place but I am not the one who will pass that judgment upon my peers. I think it is erroneous for us to sit here and claim that because someone "broke down" it's because they weren't good enough. I've broken down many times and I have no doubts that I am good enough. I tell my kids this all the time, they get intimidated when I tell them I want to be a doctor, but I become humanized when I tell them I struggled and had to put forth my best effort to get where I am right now.

I know how I will cope when my attending is mean: storage closet runs and tears...then make-up to hide crying face.
If you want to call me weak, be my guest.

 

[HughMyron]

People who say "bullying builds character" probably have never been bullied or witnessed the effects of bullying on a workplace.


Bullying, usually seen in the form of harsh verbal abuse ("you're worthless," "a layperson could do this better than you," etc) is a form of punishment. What this ends up doing is forcing the victims to avoid the bully and just keep their head down. Why would I seek to talk to someone who just rages 24/7 at me? This has obvious detrimental effects on the workplace.


I recently worked in a lab with a PI who had the temper control of a toddler. Everyone else in the lab, the other Ph.D's, techs, students, talked poorly about him behind his back. They tried to minimize their meetings with him as much as possible. Less work got done because nobody was happy and nobody was communicating. The PI went through technicians faster than underwear because nobody wanted to work in the lab for too long.


I know it's apparently a meme to say "adversity builds character, and bullying is a form of adversity." No, it doesn't work like that. "Adversity" is being the first person in your family to go to college. This is overcoming adversity. Bullying is a superior breaking university regulations and maybe state/federal laws to verbally and apparently physically abuse you just because he can.


Next thing I know you'll be telling me that getting raped or robbed builds character because you have to "overcome adversity." Seriously?

 

[TriagePreMed]

Also, I'm not sure where we disagree about bullying being about breaking people. Isn't that what bullies want? To put people down and break them? Bullying is almost analogous to athletic training. Coaches and trainers push athletes to their physical limits in order to make them better at their game or sport. Obviously a bully's intentions are not the same, but bullies can push people to their emotional/psychological limit. What happens when you reach a limit? You break, or you get stronger. So the bully either breaks you, or you use the experience as a character building opportunity.

I'm still missing how or why that is controversial. I'm merely taking a negative thing and getting something positive out of it.

Except you submit yourself willingly to physical training and these people are supposed to be trained on the limits of the human body as well as what maximizes positive results. Seriously, bullying is athletic training? I don't know if you're aware of how everything that you say comes off or that you know what a proper analogy is.

 

[Bacchus]

Give me a break. This isn't right. You don't have a way to protect yourself at all in these instances. I haven't heard of "whistle blower" protections in place for medical students. You're damned if you do, damned if you don't. The "best" you can get is making sure your evaluation is filled out and in the clinical education office before you write a scathing review.

Bullying in this profession isn't productive. It isn't right. It shouldn't happen. However, it does and you can't protect yourself without possible repercussions.

 

[Yonko Shanks]

never been bullied in my life. Being 6 feet and having muscle helps.

 

[Yonko Shanks]

give me a break. This isn't right. You don't have a way to protect yourself at all in these instances. I haven't heard of "whistle blower" protections in place for medical students. You're damned if you do, damned if you don't. The "best" you can get is making sure your evaluation is filled out and in the clinical education office before you write a scathing review.

Bullying in this profession isn't productive. It isn't right. It shouldn't happen. However, it does and you can't protect yourself without possible repercussions.

+1

 

[HalfListic]

never been bullied in my life. Being 6 feet and having muscle helps.

My kind of girl...maybe I can get your number later?

 

[MedicalMBA]

I was bullied profusely throughout middle school and high school, being a skinny, nerdy minority in an all white town. I would not want ANYONE to go through what I went through during these years of my life. Luckily, I had a strong support system who helped me get through this and helped me focus my emotions on productive vs. destructive distractions. While now I am 6 feet tall, muscular, and not socially awkward and am better prepared to deal with whatever bullying would come my way, I still shudder at the thought of anyone ill prepared to deal with such type of bullying having to go through anything like this.

From someone with first hand experience, I can say that bullying did me absolutely no good. On the contrary, bullying was very close to leading me down some awful paths in my life and I am sure others who were not blessed enough to have a strong support system were not as lucky as I was in terms of outcomes. It saddens me that bullying continues to plague the world at a professional level. I always assumed the immaturity would stop at the college level.

Bullying does not built character...it just decreases team efficiency, creates a negative work environment, and increases the chances of failure for the ones affected. Just my two cents based on my own experiences.

 

[NonTraditional3]

Bullying sucks. It's not adversity. It sucks. Adversity is South African Amputees winning medals at the OLYMPIC GAMES, not the Paralympic games.

Adversity is growing up without a dad.

Adversity is not being able to get to school because the family car broke down and you can only really afford to patch that flat each time it happens.

Adversity is escaping to america because your family was slaughtered by a rogue militia in your Liberian village.

Adversity is losing both of your parents semesters back to back in your senior year, and then having to pull hail mary to make things work so you can graduate but still fly your two sisters to the USA from egypt so you can take care of them. (True story, happened my best friend in college and I hope no one ever has to experience that tyranny. EVER.)


Adversity is pre-med vs. chevy Suburban bi-lateral femur fractures, on your way to an examination.

Adversity is flying round trip to Denmark in 4 days to attend an sudden family funeral; studying ferociously on the plane and In the airports because you have an examination the day you get back.

Bullying is not adversity. It sucks. It's a problem. But relabeling it will not get bullying the attention it needs in order for permanent changes to be brought about.

 

[DrWily]

All I see is a bunch of wimps in this thread.






(joking don't kill me)

 

[HalfListic]

I definitely think that bullying is a terrible form of "teaching," and I think it's a sloppy excuse for those older physicians who clearly have a problem. It's rude, immature, and completely unprofessional.

Yes, learning is going to inherently involve making mistakes but using bullying to deter an individual to not make the mistake twice might be effective, it causes far more harm than good. The obvious problem is that it creates tension, a lack of distrust, and damages the person's self esteem. Yes, I know that everyone's adults, but seriously, it always sucks to be publicly humiliated in front of your peers and professional colleagues.

Bullying builds character? That's the dumbest **** I've ever read. More like build the ego of those doing the bullying. From bootcamp to eas, I've witnessed bullying in the military ranging from simple name calling to death threats. Nothing productive ever came from it.

One of my professor in undergrad was a bully.

He did very awful things to me including throwing my calculator at me and telling me my product was trash. Every time I had his class I went in the bathroom and had a small panic attack, cried, puked then put a brave face on and went to lab.

I hated lab and became extremely uncomfortable in any laboratory situation. I ended up getting a good grade in the class and excelling in the exams, but I can tell you it wasn't because of the way he treated me it was because I knew my goals and I as I sat in the bathroom crying and puking out my nerves I told my self to just go through with it and that it didn't matter that he had made me cry in front of all my classmates the day before. I was going to become a doctor and he was going to be a bully for the rest of his life.

I don't think bullying is an effective form of teaching. As I have said before, I work in the education field right now and have worked with special needs children. As the teacher, you want to be the one to form a positive relationship with your students in order to provide them the best opportunity to learn. Yeah, bullying is always going to exist but I don't think the teacher should be the bully. The teacher should be someone we can look up to and who pushes us in the right way to learn.

I am a pretty though cookie, but I know other people who were bullied by that same man and ended up dropping out of the class and giving up. I sincerely think this is a waste of talent and potential. Now, some can say they sucked in the first place but I am not the one who will pass that judgment upon my peers. I think it is erroneous for us to sit here and claim that because someone "broke down" it's because they weren't good enough. I've broken down many times and I have no doubts that I am good enough. I tell my kids this all the time, they get intimidated when I tell them I want to be a doctor, but I become humanized when I tell them I struggled and had to put forth my best effort to get where I am right now.

I know how I will cope when my attending is mean: storage closet runs and tears...then make-up to hide crying face.
If you want to call me weak, be my guest.

People who say "bullying builds character" probably have never been bullied or witnessed the effects of bullying on a workplace.


Bullying, usually seen in the form of harsh verbal abuse ("you're worthless," "a layperson could do this better than you," etc) is a form of punishment. What this ends up doing is forcing the victims to avoid the bully and just keep their head down. Why would I seek to talk to someone who just rages 24/7 at me? This has obvious detrimental effects on the workplace.


I recently worked in a lab with a PI who had the temper control of a toddler. Everyone else in the lab, the other Ph.D's, techs, students, talked poorly about him behind his back. They tried to minimize their meetings with him as much as possible. Less work got done because nobody was happy and nobody was communicating. The PI went through technicians faster than underwear because nobody wanted to work in the lab for too long.


I know it's apparently a meme to say "adversity builds character, and bullying is a form of adversity." No, it doesn't work like that. "Adversity" is being the first person in your family to go to college. This is overcoming adversity. Bullying is a superior breaking university regulations and maybe state/federal laws to verbally and apparently physically abuse you just because he can.


Next thing I know you'll be telling me that getting raped or robbed builds character because you have to "overcome adversity." Seriously?

Give me a break. This isn't right. You don't have a way to protect yourself at all in these instances. I haven't heard of "whistle blower" protections in place for medical students. You're damned if you do, damned if you don't. The "best" you can get is making sure your evaluation is filled out and in the clinical education office before you write a scathing review.

Bullying in this profession isn't productive. It isn't right. It shouldn't happen. However, it does and you can't protect yourself without possible repercussions.

I was bullied profusely throughout middle school and high school, being a skinny, nerdy minority in an all white town. I would not want ANYONE to go through what I went through during these years of my life. Luckily, I had a strong support system who helped me get through this and helped me focus my emotions on productive vs. destructive distractions. While now I am 6 feet tall, muscular, and not socially awkward and am better prepared to deal with whatever bullying would come my way, I still shudder at the thought of anyone ill prepared to deal with such type of bullying having to go through anything like this.

From someone with first hand experience, I can say that bullying did me absolutely no good. On the contrary, bullying was very close to leading me down some awful paths in my life and I am sure others who were not blessed enough to have a strong support system were not as lucky as I was in terms of outcomes. It saddens me that bullying continues to plague the world at a professional level. I always assumed the immaturity would stop at the college level.

Bullying does not built character...it just decreases team efficiency, creates a negative work environment, and increases the chances of failure for the ones affected. Just my two cents based on my own experiences.

Bullying sucks. It's not adversity. It sucks. Adversity is South African Amputees winning medals at the OLYMPIC GAMES, not the Paralympic games.

Adversity is growing up without a dad.

Adversity is not being able to get to school because the family car broke down and you can only really afford to patch that flat each time it happens.

Adversity is escaping to america because your family was slaughtered by a rogue militia in your Liberian village.

Adversity is losing both of your parents semesters back to back in your senior year, and then having to pull hail mary to make things work so you can graduate but still fly your two sisters to the USA from egypt so you can take care of them. (True story, happened my best friend in college and I hope no one ever has to experience that tyranny. EVER.)


Adversity is pre-med vs. chevy Suburban bi-lateral femur fractures, on your way to an examination.

Adversity is flying round trip to Denmark in 4 days to attend an sudden family funeral; studying ferociously on the plane and In the airports because you have an examination the day you get back.

Bullying is not adversity. It sucks. It's a problem. But relabeling it will not get bullying the attention it needs in order for permanent changes to be brought about.

Good to see most people get it. This is how environments change and teaching solutions improve. Im very appreciative to be able to go into a better learning environment than existed only a few years ago, and hopefully continue to help improve it.