Business to Medicine. DIY Post-Bacc worth it?

[BrainStorm71]

Hi everybody,

I'm trying to make a transition to medicine from accounting.

I completed all of my pre-reqs more than ten years ago. My target med school has informed me that they do not expire, but I also want to improve my GPA since it was a 3.3, as far as I'm aware.

I kind of have an odd background: I did all of my pre-reqs, got into pharmacy, and didn’t finish for reasons outside of my control. So basically, I have a whole bunch of old pre-reqs and over two years’ worth of pharmacy classes on my transcript. Some of those are also more than ten years old at this point.

I got my bachelor's degree in accounting and have been working in the field ever since. I've heard that it's not a good idea to retake pre-reqs at a community college if you've already done them. Some of my classes I already took twice, to go from a C to a B, like Organic Chemistry 1 and 2.

My life has settled down a lot, and after a lot of contemplation and time, I'm finally ready to start making moves. The challenge is, I’m not quite sure how to go about it. I still need to take the MCAT, and my pre-reqs are old.

I tried looking into the SMP route but was told I would need letters of recommendation, which I currently don’t have. The only other option I can think of is a DIY post-bacc. So I registered at my local university for a post-bacc in biochemistry. Not sure if that was a smart move, but I actually enjoy the subject to some extent and had taken it before during pharmacy school. I figured it might be a good way to improve my GPA and prove myself, even though it's expensive.

I'm also trying to figure out how to get started studying for the MCAT and improving my application while working full time and trying to get some clinical experience and volunteer hours under my belt.

I know this post is kind of all over the place, but I’d really appreciate any advice. Ideally, I’d like to make solid progress within the next year. Maybe not finish the post-bacc, but at least get some recent A’s on my transcript so I can apply to medical school next cycle.

I really want to do this, but it feels like the odds are stacked against me, especially since I’m in my mid-30s.

Thanks for any input you can give!

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[Goro]

You might be better served by doing a formal post back program. Check out the MCAT forum for tips on how to study for that.

Do not take this career defining, high-stakes exam until you are 100% ready for it

 

[BrainStorm71]

You might be better served by doing a formal post back program. Check out the MCAT forum for tips on how to study for that.

Do not take this career defining, high-stakes exam until you are 100% ready for it

Thank you; I am not sure what my city has to offer in terms of a formal post-bacc, but I am going to ask about it. Just to clarify, would such a program have me retake prerequisites for medical school? Or would it be likely to include other coursework?

Update: I actually just reached out to my local university in terms of a formal post-bacc. Unfortunately, it's ruled out for me since they only allow full-time students.

 

[polymerization]

Just to clarify, would such a program have me retake prerequisites for medical school?

As someone applying this cycle who, like you, took most of my prerequisites over 10 years ago, you may want to retake those classes within a formal postbac anyway for the purposes of the MCAT, but you don't necessarily need to. The advice I've received from schools has been very vague. For example, I received an A in physics 10 years ago, but that doesn't mean I want to take quantum now or take grad-level biology if it isn't necessary. For the most part, if you passed your classes 10 years ago, they'll try to steer you toward adjacent courses. It's easier to do in biology (take things like genetics, immunology, embryology, molecular biology and all of the other -ologies that sound medically relevant).

It's one thing to say you're applying next year and actually having what you need to apply. The idea that you could catch up on enough coursework; get solid LORs from professors you know well; study and sit for the MCAT; shadow; and find/engage in research, clinical, volunteering (clinical AND non-clinical) and leadership experiences, etc. all within the course of the year is unreasonable to ask of yourself, there just aren't enough hours in the day (and you are already 6 days into the "year" before the next cycle). And even if you could do this in theory, it would still appear to be extremely contrived as all of your hours will be extremely low.

Take it from me—do it the right way, or don't do it at all. It's worse to rush and then realize you were only fooling yourself. My guess is it will take ~2 years at least if you're really starting from zero and are going to be full-time with all of your experiences already coordinated and ready to go on day 1.

If you're really serious about it, I think you might need to sit down and plan out not only your activities, but how they will work together with the classes you will take to tie together a forward-facing narrative about why you want to be a physician. That's harder and less obvious than it sounds. Good luck!

 

[BrainStorm71]

As someone applying this cycle who, like you, took most of my prerequisites over 10 years ago, you may want to retake those classes within a formal postbac anyway for the purposes of the MCAT, but you don't necessarily need to. The advice I've received from schools has been very vague. For example, I received an A in physics 10 years ago, but that doesn't mean I want to take quantum now or take grad-level biology if it isn't necessary. For the most part, if you passed your classes 10 years ago, they'll try to steer you toward adjacent courses. It's easier to do in biology (take things like genetics, immunology, embryology, molecular biology and all of the other -ologies that sound medically relevant).

It's one thing to say you're applying next year and actually having what you need to apply. The idea that you could catch up on enough coursework; get solid LORs from professors you know well; study and sit for the MCAT; shadow; and find/engage in research, clinical, volunteering (clinical AND non-clinical) and leadership experiences, etc. all within the course of the year is unreasonable to ask of yourself, there just aren't enough hours in the day (and you are already 6 days into the "year" before the next cycle). And even if you could do this in theory, it would still appear to be extremely contrived as all of your hours will be extremely low.

Take it from me—do it the right way, or don't do it at all. It's worse to rush and then realize you were only fooling yourself. My guess is it will take ~2 years at least if you're really starting from zero and are going to be full-time with all of your experiences already coordinated and ready to go on day 1.

If you're really serious about it, I think you might need to sit down and plan out not only your activities, but how they will work together with the classes you will take to tie together a forward-facing narrative about why you want to be a physician. That's harder and less obvious than it sounds. Good luck!

Thank you for such a comprehensive answer!

You are right, the more I think about things, I am starting to come to the conclusion that this may take longer that what I originally anticipated. I am in it for the long-haul, so I will still give things a go.

I reached out to my local university and heard back in regards to their post-bacc program. They said they could waive letters of recommendation but do not allow part-time students. It unfortunately rules me out since I cannot afford to attend full-time.

With that said, I am thinking of just continuing on with the biochemistry DIY post-bacc plan and try to study for the MCAT on my own.

Side question: I'm not really sure what's doing in terms of course load in biochemistry, since I will be working full-time. I realize this is quite vague, but do you think two classes per semester is doable?

I'm not really trying to finish per se, just keep active while I tackle the MCAT and show some forward direction.

 

[polymerization]

Thank you for such a comprehensive answer!

You are right, the more I think about things, I am starting to come to the conclusion that this may take longer that what I originally anticipated. I am in it for the long-haul, so I will still give things a go.

I reached out to my local university and heard back in regards to their post-bacc program. They said they could waive letters of recommendation but do not allow part-time students. It unfortunately rules me out since I cannot afford to attend full-time.

With that said, I am thinking of just continuing on with the biochemistry DIY post-bacc plan and try to study for the MCAT on my own.

Side question: I'm not really sure what's doing in terms of course load in biochemistry, since I will be working full-time. I realize this is quite vague, but do you think two classes per semester is doable?

I'm not really trying to finish per se, just keep active while I tackle the MCAT and show some forward direction.

No worries; my partner is a CPA and trying to shoot for PMHNP in his mid-thirties. I didn't think it was a great idea either and he told me to go kick rocks.

In all seriousness, if you're working while trying to undergo this process, you're significantly extending the time you'll need to prepare. Remember the system already assumes a framework of the "traditional" full-time student who quickly begins developing their CV early their first year, and then continues well into senior year while they apply. That's 4 years of experiences divvied up; and these days, most take gap year(s) to improve their application beyond that. Every piece of this process is associated with cost (either explicit or in opportunity cost), so bear that in mind: it's not exactly wise to rush to apply only to get ghosted and take the financial blow. You won't get a gold star or special consideration for being older and having to overcome even more barriers than you likely did when you were going through undergrad the first time.

Two classes per semester absolutely can be doable, I don't see why not. It really depends more on what else you have going on. If you're working a 9-5p and expecting to take upper division sciences (especially biochemistry + adjacent courses) in your free time, you're not going to have a good time. If it's been a while since your last class, start slow. It's better to take longer and not slip up than fail or almost fail a class at this point. Your goal should be to ace every single class you take.

As far as the MCAT, it's a beast of an exam. I took it very seriously, but sneered at people who told me you need to be studying in the same sort of physiological setting as you'll take the actual thing (i.e., studying between roughly 8-3p, eating the same thing for breakfast, developing a routine). I was very wrong to ignore that advice. The day of my exam, I ate breakfast (I normally don't, but thought it could only help). I threw up on my way to the testing center, dissociated, not having taken a single break—and walked out of there with much time to spare. My FL average was 514. My actual score was 506. Don't be me.

 

[Goro]

Thank you; I am not sure what my city has to offer in terms of a formal post-bacc, but I am going to ask about it. Just to clarify, would such a program have me retake prerequisites for medical school?

Yes. You'll need them for MCAT, and you can't apply to only one med school, and for many, they have an expiration date for pre-reqs.

Or would it be likely to include other coursework?

Program-dependent

Update: I actually just reached out to my local university in terms of a formal post-bacc. Unfortunately, it's ruled out for me since they only allow full-time students.

I suggest that you continue working, save up your money, and then go to school full time.

OR, do a DIY post-bac.

 

[BrainStorm71]

No worries; my partner is a CPA and trying to shoot for PMHNP in his mid-thirties. I didn't think it was a great idea either and he told me to go kick rocks.

In all seriousness, if you're working while trying to undergo this process, you're significantly extending the time you'll need to prepare. Remember the system already assumes a framework of the "traditional" full-time student who quickly begins developing their CV early their first year, and then continues well into senior year while they apply. That's 4 years of experiences divvied up; and these days, most take gap year(s) to improve their application beyond that. Every piece of this process is associated with cost (either explicit or in opportunity cost), so bear that in mind: it's not exactly wise to rush to apply only to get ghosted and take the financial blow. You won't get a gold star or special consideration for being older and having to overcome even more barriers than you likely did when you were going through undergrad the first time.

Two classes per semester absolutely can be doable, I don't see why not. It really depends more on what else you have going on. If you're working a 9-5p and expecting to take upper division sciences (especially biochemistry + adjacent courses) in your free time, you're not going to have a good time. If it's been a while since your last class, start slow. It's better to take longer and not slip up than fail or almost fail a class at this point. Your goal should be to ace every single class you take.

As far as the MCAT, it's a beast of an exam. I took it very seriously, but sneered at people who told me you need to be studying in the same sort of physiological setting as you'll take the actual thing (i.e., studying between roughly 8-3p, eating the same thing for breakfast, developing a routine). I was very wrong to ignore that advice. The day of my exam, I ate breakfast (I normally don't, but thought it could only help). I threw up on my way to the testing center, dissociated, not having taken a single break—and walked out of there with much time to spare. My FL average was 514. My actual score was 506. Don't be me.

Haha, I totally understand what you mean about your partner. I am just as stubborn! That may be the only thing I've got going for me on my side, actually, lol.

Thank you for shedding some light on the reality of the situation. I'm definitely in it for the long-haul, so I don't mind taking my time to improve my application to the point where I actually stand a chance. It's a lot better than rushing only to lose application fees and not hear anything back.

As for the MCAT exam, do you know of any material or course that would help a person re-learn material versus just "review" material? There's so much that I have forgotten over time, so I am basically learning from scratch.

 

[polymerization]

Haha, I totally understand what you mean about your partner. I am just as stubborn! That may be the only thing I've got going for me on my side, actually, lol.

Thank you for shedding some light on the reality of the situation. I'm definitely in it for the long-haul, so I don't mind taking my time to improve my application to the point where I actually stand a chance. It's a lot better than rushing only to lose application fees and not hear anything back.

As for the MCAT exam, do you know of any material or course that would help a person re-learn material versus just "review" material? There's so much that I have forgotten over time, so I am basically learning from scratch.

Typically, MCAT review materials assume you already have basic knowledge. Even if they technically present you with all of the information, it doesn't help you synthesize it and make connections in ways that I think are really crucial for the test. That's why it was hard for me to just sit and read Kaplan. It felt like I was reading someone else's notes.

Probably the thing that helped me the most was watching MIT lectures on 1.5x speed. You can pick and choose, but I think most important is Introductory Biology and Principles of Chemical Science, which I watched start-to-finish, even though the MCAT doesn't cover a few of the topics. Their lectures are jump-out-of-my-seat-fantastic. I would absolutely LOVE to meet these ladies before I kick the bucket.

It gave me the conceptual understanding I needed to start practice questions for BB and a lot of CP. Their physics course is calculus-based and less helpful for the MCAT, but there are a lot of resources out there. The Brem Method, Informing Future Doctors, and Elise Medical Sciences all have great tutorials for physics (Archimedes, Poiseuille, optics, harmonics, etc.) ...but it was definitely my weakness.