But did you get pimped while shadowing?

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0dee

0dee

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Hey all,

I was wondering if any of the fellow premeds got pimped while shadowing? I had my first pimping session today while shadowing and it was embarrassing. Not just that, but the resident got pimped too right in front of me, all the nurses, and staff. To be fair, I should have known one of the two questions but I froze (I wasn't expecting to be asked medical questions tbh lol).
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Hahahaha wtf. that's some unfortunate stuff. I have never heard of someone seriously been asked questions during shadowing. My condolences.
 
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Tr1LL said:
Hey all,

I was wondering if any of the fellow premeds got pimped while shadowing? I had my first pimping session today while shadowing and it was embarrassing. Not just that, but the resident got pimped too right in front of me, all the nurses, and staff. To be fair, I should have known one of the two questions but I froze (I wasn't expecting to be asked medical questions tbh lol).
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What were the questions?
 
Surprisingly, I got asked a question by the attending when sitting in on morning report for cardiothoracic surgery about the name of some random rare disease. Of course I didn't know so I just stared straight at him and quizzically asked "Am I...getting pimped?" Everyone laughed and someone in the room spilled their coffee. I'd chalk that up to be the best outcome possible.
 
Midnight Schemes said:
Why is this called "pimping"? Do medical students just not understand the meaning or am I missing something?
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I have no idea how med students started using this word but it is supposed to mean being asked intentionally torturous questions for the explicit reason that the person asking the question is trying to publicly embarrass you. Just being asked a question does not seem like the former thing.

Even when used "appropriately", the term is dumb. Worst case scenario: You don't know the answer and then you learn something. How "humiliating"...If it is actually meant to humiliate you, it could just be to humble an arrogant medical student who are likely in abundant supply
 
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Dr. Death said:
What were the questions?
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The attending was talking with the resident and myself; the resident was telling him about a a specific case. Then the attending asks him a hypothetical situation that went like this:

Attending: What would you do if a patient had an unstoppable bleed from the tumor in their lung?
Resident: Differential intubate the patient.
Attending: Do you know how to do that?
Resident: No, but I'll call anesthesia right away.
Attending: You have more than couple of mins until anesthesia shows up, go explain to the patients' family that you're a resident and their loved one is dying while you're sitting here doing nothing.
Resident: *blank face* *10 second pause*
Attending: So, Tr1LL I don't expect you to know this kinda stuff but what would you do?
Me: Sorry doctor, but I honestly don't know


This was me on the inside:

6359550187037793341608831665_tumblr_inline_nmb976Nkh01r5gg5i.gif



Attending: You roll the patient on their side with the bleeding side is down, by doing that gravity will give you some extra time until anesthesia shows up.
Attending: Tr1LL, you took organic chemistry right? what are the two functional groups that are used in a famous drug most known to intubate people?
 
Not going to call it pimping but I have a fun story.
I was shadowing a plastic surgeon that had a resident working with him on a burn victim's hand. At one point he poked at a black area on the man's palm and said "so what do you two think would cause this charcoal color?". The resident gave some answer that I won't even pretend to understand and it seemed to work for the surgeon. He asked me what I thought it was and I just said "I'm pretty sure that sharpie from before you made the incision". He looked at me for a second, realized that it was really the sharpie, looked at the resident then chuckled for a bit.
Every time I shadowed him, he always had interesting questions for me that made me think.
 
Lucca said:
I have no idea how med students started using this word but it is supposed to mean being asked intentionally torturous questions for the explicit reason that the person asking the question is trying to publicly embarrass you. Just being asked a question does not seem like the former thing.

Even when used "appropriately", the term is dumb. Worst case scenario: You don't know the answer and then you learn something. How "humiliating"...If it is actually meant to humiliate you, it could just be to humble an arrogant medical student who are likely in abundant supply
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P.I.M.P = Put In My Place
 
NotAnotherPreMed said:
Hahahaha wtf. that's some unfortunate stuff. I have never heard of someone seriously been asked questions during shadowing. My condolences.
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Happened to me when shadowing an assistant dean of admissions at Geffen!!!! I was mortified, but eventually was able to correctly answer a few questions. Talk about pressure! I'm not sure if I hope he remembers me or not. I made him laugh a few times if that counts for anything.
 
I was pimped in front of med students by the pathologist I was doing an internship for while I was a sophomore in college. Literally just finished basic biology. He was talking to them, I was listening for fun, then he turns and asks me:

"what are the 3 types of structures most commonly found in dementia patients?"
"Lewy bodies, plaques....uh......i can't remember the other..."
"Tangles"

I died, still cringe thinking about it because I felt like I let him down. I knew the answer, but at the time I had thought plaques and tangles were the same thing. But I will never forget the answer. So I guess pimping does work haha
 
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@Lucca Something you might enjoy.

"THE TERM “PIMPING” WAS POPULARIZED BY BRANCATI in 1989. As he defined it, pimping occurs when an attending physician (the Pimper) poses a series of difficult questions to a resident or medical student (the Pimpee). Pimping usually occurs in settings such as “morning report” or “attending rounds,” in which trainees at various levels convene with a faculty member to review patients currently under their care. Among surgeons, pimping may occur when students and residents are a captive audience observing a patient undergoing an operation. Brancati described the origins of the term, which date back to 17th century London. Koch’s series of “Pümpfrage” (pimp questions) were used on his rounds in the 19th century. The practice migrated to North America in the 20th century and was documented by Flexner while observing Osler making rounds at Johns Hopkins. Brancati outlined suggestions for attending physicians to further hone their pimping skills and methods for students to defend themselves from it. He posited that the art of pimping would disappear in the future with increased specialization and educational reorganization. This Commentary revisits the art of pimping 20 years later and provides an update for faculty members and students alike on modern methods in this important skill."

- JAMA:Allan S. Detsky, MD, PhD
 

Attachments

Sardinia said:
@Lucca Something you might enjoy.

"THE TERM “PIMPING” WAS POPULARIZED BY BRANCATI in 1989. As he defined it, pimping occurs when an attending physician (the Pimper) poses a series of difficult questions to a resident or medical student (the Pimpee). Pimping usually occurs in settings such as “morning report” or “attending rounds,” in which trainees at various levels convene with a faculty member to review patients currently under their care. Among surgeons, pimping may occur when students and residents are a captive audience observing a patient undergoing an operation. Brancati described the origins of the term, which date back to 17th century London. Koch’s series of “Pümpfrage” (pimp questions) were used on his rounds in the 19th century. The practice migrated to North America in the 20th century and was documented by Flexner while observing Osler making rounds at Johns Hopkins. Brancati outlined suggestions for attending physicians to further hone their pimping skills and methods for students to defend themselves from it. He posited that the art of pimping would disappear in the future with increased specialization and educational reorganization. This Commentary revisits the art of pimping 20 years later and provides an update for faculty members and students alike on modern methods in this important skill."

- JAMA:Allan S. Detsky, MD, PhD
Click to expand...

lol this is pretty awesome actually
 
Attending: What would be some good medications to give this patient if we suspected lupus?

Residents: [many fancy words I'm not familiar with]

Attending: what was one of the first drugs used to treat lupus, developed in the 1800s? It can treat malaria and is still found in tonic water today.

Residents: ... (Thinking "why does that matter literally at all?")

Attending: Knife, do you have any idea?

Me: 😵 it's not quinine is it?

Turns out it was, and which led the attending make some comment to the residents about how even the damn college student knew the answer. I caught a couple glances from some salty residents 😳

Probably one of the most exciting experiences of my pre med life
 
The Knife & Gun Club said:
Attending: What would be some good medications to give this patient if we suspected lupus?

Residents: [many fancy words I'm not familiar with]

Attending: what was one of the first drugs used to treat lupus, developed in the 1800s? It can treat malaria and is still found in tonic water today.

Residents: ... (Thinking "why does that matter literally at all?")

Attending: Knife, do you have any idea?

Me: 😵 it's not quinine is it?

Turns out it was, and which led the attending make some comment to the residents about how even the damn college student knew the answer. I caught a couple glances from some salty residents 😳

Probably one of the most exciting experiences of my pre med life
Click to expand...

Hydroxyquinoline still indicated might want to hang onto that one
 
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I was asked by a general surgeon I shadowed about some cell bio stuff when he was debriding a wound. He thought it was cool that I knew what he was talking about, but he then proceeded to use that to rail against the nursing students who rotate through his clinic 😕
 
WedgeDawg said:
I don't know the answer to literally any of the questions posed in this thread.
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I'm lol-ing at the freak outs about questions that the attendings didn't really expect you to know the answer to anyway, and if you did know the answer or part of the answer, bonus points to you. None of these really sound like pimping, it's just the Socratic Method. You'll get used to it and you'll learn a lot from it. Scary at first, but it's a pretty cool feeling when the attending runs out of questions!

Now, when you are presenting your patient, in front of the patient and his wife, to your entire team, and your attending asks you what's the 2nd most common cause of X uncommon disease that this patient MIGHT have, and the attending makes you keep answering until you arrive at what he wants while everyone watches you flounder....that's pimping. When you and your co-med student freak out before rounds trying to think of the possible esoteric questions you might be asked about whatever strikes the attending's fancy that day, that's pimping. When the attending makes a student cry, that's pimping. 😛
 
J Senpai said:
I was asked by a general surgeon I shadowed about some cell bio stuff when he was debriding a wound. He thought it was cool that I knew what he was talking about, but he then proceeded to use that to rail against the nursing students who rotate through his clinic 😕
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this is how you make enemies, sir
 
WedgeDawg said:
I don't know the answer to literally any of the questions posed in this thread.
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I feel like this is a true sign of adeptness and experience, to know what you arent supposed to know without being consumed by that feeling of inadequacy.
 
Dr Tony T. Chopper said:
I feel like this is a true sign of adeptness and experience, to know what you arent supposed to know without being consumed by that feeling of inadequacy.
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Medical school is truly the first time I have become comfortable with being wholly inadequate
 
ProspectiveKidd said:
You're supposed to know things before shadowing? I'm screwed
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Here's all you need to know before you shadow:
  1. Dont ask questions or talk if the doctor is in the middle of something unless you're talked to first
  2. Don't offer your opinion unless explicitly asked (in which case you should probably say "I don't know" even if you know)
  3. Don't touch anything unless told to, especially if you're shadowing something surgical or procedural
  4. Dress nicely - you'll be interacting with patients (most likely) and representing both the physician and the rest of the health system or hospital (even though you're not doing anything)
  5. Don't take notes, just be actively processing, thinking, and reflecting
  6. Be courteous

That's it. Nothing scientific to it.
 
Tr1LL said:
Not really, but I always get asked why medicine, why you want to shadow this speciality, what do you know about this speciality and such. I use these questions as a way to prepare myself for interviews.
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Just be aware (for others reading this thread) that it's perfectly acceptable to answer (respectively) "that's what I'm trying to figure out", "it looked interesting", and "nothing yet!".
 
WedgeDawg said:
Just be aware (for others reading this thread) that it's perfectly acceptable to answer (respectively) "that's what I'm trying to figure out", "it looked interesting", and "nothing yet!".
Click to expand...

Yea, its just kind of embarrassing because I'm sort of in the earlier stages. I haven't even taken a lot of my pre reqs and if they ask me the simplest questions about bio or anatomy and I'm not going to have a clue lol.

As far as why medicine, and why this field, I'm anticipating those sorts of questions.
 
ProspectiveKidd said:
Yea, its just kind of embarrassing because I'm sort of in the earlier. I haven't even taken a lot of my pre reqs and if they ask me the simplest questions about bio or anatomy and I'm not going to have a clue lol.
Click to expand...

I didn't know anything and I still don't, so you'll be okay 😉
 
sharkbyte said:
What did he do or say that made everyone cry?
Click to expand...

This was almost 2 years ago so I can't really remember things that were said, though I do remember watching a team member's eyes well up with tears during rounds. There's only so many times you can be humiliated in front of others before it takes a toll. Honestly I don't think this attending was trying to humiliate, but rather there was a major issue with delivery and method and rounds were just wholly unpleasant and nerve-wracking.

This was definitely an outlier to my clinical experience. Vast majority of attendings are excellent and if they do "pimp" it's in the Socratic method of just trying to figure out your knowledge gaps with the intent to fill them, not to expose how stupid you are.
 
Do you all realize that Allan S. Detsky, MD, PhD was a freaking baller? Can we just take a moment to consider that this dude actually wrote The Art of Pimping. Dude was primo P.I.M.P. I bet you he won a bet from people saying that title would never get published, but it did. Smack-dab in JAMA.

Sardinia said:
@Lucca Something you might enjoy.

"THE TERM “PIMPING” WAS POPULARIZED BY BRANCATI in 1989. As he defined it, pimping occurs when an attending physician (the Pimper) poses a series of difficult questions to a resident or medical student (the Pimpee). Pimping usually occurs in settings such as “morning report” or “attending rounds,” in which trainees at various levels convene with a faculty member to review patients currently under their care. Among surgeons, pimping may occur when students and residents are a captive audience observing a patient undergoing an operation. Brancati described the origins of the term, which date back to 17th century London. Koch’s series of “Pümpfrage” (pimp questions) were used on his rounds in the 19th century. The practice migrated to North America in the 20th century and was documented by Flexner while observing Osler making rounds at Johns Hopkins. Brancati outlined suggestions for attending physicians to further hone their pimping skills and methods for students to defend themselves from it. He posited that the art of pimping would disappear in the future with increased specialization and educational reorganization. This Commentary revisits the art of pimping 20 years later and provides an update for faculty members and students alike on modern methods in this important skill."

- JAMA:Allan S. Detsky, MD, PhD
Click to expand...

Edit: Quote from the article says "Pimping is indeed alive and well..."

I bet it is Allan, at least when you're around.
 
WedgeDawg said:
Here's all you need to know before you shadow:
  1. Dont ask questions or talk if the doctor is in the middle of something unless you're talked to first
  2. Don't offer your opinion unless explicitly asked (in which case you should probably say "I don't know" even if you know)
  3. Don't touch anything unless told to, especially if you're shadowing something surgical or procedural
  4. Dress nicely - you'll be interacting with patients (most likely) and representing both the physician and the rest of the health system or hospital (even though you're not doing anything)
  5. Don't take notes, just be actively processing, thinking, and reflecting
  6. Be courteous

That's it. Nothing scientific to it.
Click to expand...
I would add to #3 that in the OR don't even get within 3 feet of touching anything. Learned that the hard way when I got within a couple feet of the instrument table and got my head ripped off by some nurse.
 
Dr. Death said:
I would add to #3 that in the OR don't even get within 3 feet of touching anything. Learned that the hard way when I got within a couple feet of the instrument table and got my head ripped off by some nurse.
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"Some nurse" runs that room. Make friends with the circulator and scrub tech and things will go much better for you. You got yelled at because they don't know you, can't trust you yet around a sterile field, and they have to monitor you in addition to whatever else they're doing. Once you get to know them, they trust you more.
 
Haven't had that happen yet, though the physician I shadowed was a family friend. I have been asked several lines of questions by MDs when I was working in the nursing home. I think that was just the natural teacher in the guy, though. Some was general patient info- what they're doing in therapy...but a lot of it extended way beyond that. It felt intense, but it definitely opened up some lines of thought I hadn't considered in my treatments as a new grad.

Side note- how did you all set up your shadowing experiences? We have an emergency medicine shadowing opportunity offered through my school, but beyond that we are on our own.
 
The Knife & Gun Club said:
Attending: What would be some good medications to give this patient if we suspected lupus?

Residents: [many fancy words I'm not familiar with]

Attending: what was one of the first drugs used to treat lupus, developed in the 1800s? It can treat malaria and is still found in tonic water today.

Residents: ... (Thinking "why does that matter literally at all?")

Attending: Knife, do you have any idea?

Me: 😵 it's not quinine is it?

Turns out it was, and which led the attending make some comment to the residents about how even the damn college student knew the answer. I caught a couple glances from some salty residents 😳

Probably one of the most exciting experiences of my pre med life
Click to expand...

I remember saying "phospholipid" during a talk about DKA vs. AKA given by an attending when the 2nd year med students didn't remember it. I don't even remember why "phospholipid" was relevant.

Was awkward as ****. This attending is a great guy though so he didn't grill the med students or anything. Tangent: he's the kind of attending that makes you want to change fields just so you can work/learn under him.
 
Yeah, we had a big pause after the residents opened a neck and were waiting for the attendings/other dept. team to come in for some detailed vasculature work. Anyway, the residents saw me looking interested and began quizzing me on the anatomy of the neck. They'd point things out and ask me to ID them. A bit nerve-wracking, but it was cool!

The attendings would also forget I was not a student sometimes and quiz me...and when I was scribing, the docs I worked for would sometimes quiz me on things to teach me, and then tell me to go look up the details once we'd worked through the gist Socratically.
 
This thread makes me think of my boss who is MD and he frequently "pimps" me during meetings (i'm working in an healthcare related office job)... it's the worst thing ever and I never know the answer. He must have developed this habit from his education/practicing days...... he also frequently touts the Socratic method 😡
 
wishinghoping31 said:
This thread makes me think of my boss who is MD and he frequently "pimps" me during meetings (i'm working in an healthcare related office job)... it's the worst thing ever and I never know the answer. He must have developed this habit from his education/practicing days...... he also frequently touts the Socratic method 😡
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I've never understood the hate for 'pimping'...if you don't know, you learn cool things, and if you do, no stress! The issue is when they add in penalties for not knowing...that's not educational, it's just dickery.
 
mehc012 said:
I've never understood the hate for 'pimping'...if you don't know, you learn cool things, and if you do, no stress! The issue is when they add in penalties for not knowing...that's not educational, it's just dickery.
Click to expand...
Not as big a deal for residents as I imagine someone in M3 doing a rotation for one of their top specialties and the site is picky about how they distribute evals.
 
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