C2 stock check & prices from customers

[tumtums]

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By Cali law, we are not obligated to provide any controlled substance price.
Do you guys do stock checks and prices from customers for c2 and any controls?

 

[Farmercyst]

By Cali law, we are not obligated to provide any controlled substance price.
Do you guys do stock checks and prices from customers for c2 and any controls?

Only established pts with on-campus Drs. One of the benefits of working on a medical campus, we pretty much know all the MDs who write. If it's not one of ours, we let them know we don't fill for off-site MDs.

 

[tumtums]

im talking about a customer calling up and asking if you have methadone #100 in stock? how much is #60 tabs of norco/ritalin?

 

[Sparda29]

im talking about a customer calling up and asking if you have methadone #100 in stock? how much is #60 tabs of norco/ritalin?

Ummm... **** no.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

I'd have no problem with it. They need a legit script to get it either way. At least let them shop around for the best deal. I ran into that annoyance back in the day when I tried to find the best price for my ADD meds (it's Sam's, btw). From the patient perspective, there is nothing more annoying than being treated like a criminal when you are trying to find the best deal on a medication you legitimately need. It's a problem with our mindset as pharmacists. We run into one drug seeker and from then on in the back of our minds we treat everyone getting a CIV or higher as if they are an addict trying to scam us. I find it rather disgusting to be honest...

 

[Sparda29]

I'd have no problem with it. They need a legit script to get it either way. At least let them shop around for the best deal. I ran into that annoyance back in the day when I tried to find the best price for my ADD meds (it's Sam's, btw). From the patient perspective, there is nothing more annoying than being treated like a criminal when you are trying to find the best deal on a medication you legitimately need. It's a problem with our mindset as pharmacists. We run into one drug seeker and from then on in the back of our minds we treat everyone getting a CIV or higher as if they are an addict trying to scam us. I find it rather disgusting to be honest...

I don't mind if they come in with the script and ask me for a price, but I'm not gonna tell them if we have it in stock or prices over the phone.

 

[Farmercyst]

im talking about a customer calling up and asking if you have methadone #100 in stock? how much is #60 tabs of norco/ritalin?

So am I.
Pt we know, sure we have 100 methadone in stock. I see you got it last month, and we have your scrip on hold from the MD saying do not fill until tomorrow. Would you like that filled tomorrow for pick up?

or

I'm sorry Mrs Smith, we don't provide MS 60mg to patients not associated with our campus. No, I can not give you a price, or tell you if we have it.

 

[npage148]

Just don't be goofy and verify that you have 700 oxycontin 80s in stock for the guy calming to have a script from his pain dr. If you do, you might as well have them in a bag waiting for when he comes in with a gun

 

[Doctor M]

I do not have a problem giving out any information such as stock availablity and price...I dont tell them how many i have, but whatever... the narcos never give us a problem...they come in, sit down and wait 5-10 minutes...We've had a few that were rowdy but all we do is look at them and they stop...we are 3 big guys back here so they dont mess around...And the same held true when we worked at CVS...

 

[Doctor M]

I'd have no problem with it. They need a legit script to get it either way. At least let them shop around for the best deal. I ran into that annoyance back in the day when I tried to find the best price for my ADD meds (it's Sam's, btw). From the patient perspective, there is nothing more annoying than being treated like a criminal when you are trying to find the best deal on a medication you legitimately need. It's a problem with our mindset as pharmacists. We run into one drug seeker and from then on in the back of our minds we treat everyone getting a CIV or higher as if they are an addict trying to scam us. I find it rather disgusting to be honest...

agreed...

 

[Doctor M]

Just don't be goofy and verify that you have 700 oxycontin 80s in stock for the guy calming to have a script from his pain dr. If you do, you might as well have them in a bag waiting for when he comes in with a gun

Just tell them you have just enough to fill his order...why tell him you have 7 bottles?? Our mindset as pharmacists is exactly what WVU mentioned: All narcos are the same, trying to scam us...

We have many regular pts that come in every month with ins and some w/o...

 

[npage148]

Just tell them you have just enough to fill his order...why tell him you have 7 bottles?? Our mindset as pharmacists is exactly what WVU mentioned: All narcos are the same, trying to scam us...

We have many regular pts that come in every month with ins and some w/o...

well, he may say "i take 3 tid and my doctor gives me a 3 month supply so I need 810" or something

 

[confettiflyer]

we never did, we've been robbed before...our policy was to just say we didn't have it in stock. exceptions: other pharmacies or MD offices. even then, we'd call them back at their # (after verifying it).

 

[tumtums]

we never did, we've been robbed before...our policy was to just say we didn't have it in stock. exceptions: other pharmacies or MD offices. even then, we'd call them back at their # (after verifying it).

just curious... is this a retail pharmacy or independent?

 

[litetigre]

Just tell them you have just enough to fill his order...why tell him you have 7 bottles?? Our mindset as pharmacists is exactly what WVU mentioned: All narcos are the same, trying to scam us...

We have many regular pts that come in every month with ins and some w/o...

As a pharmacist, you spend six years in school, your license is on the line, and the safety of yourself and your staff . All of those justify the extra measures that on-duty pharmacists must do to stop drug seekers and fill control meds on time. There is nothing wrong with patients checking price. However, for stock check you need to bring in the script. Robbers usually have accomplice and they just wait outside till you say you have med in stock to rob you. Also remember that with people on maintenance medication, your local pharmacy already know ahead of time and they can stock it for you. The issue arises when a new patient presents a script with cash. DEA rules require pharmacists to make sure the script is valid before filling it. If you fill a phony without cheking it, your license is in jeopardy. So we all follow laws. With so much things going on around the world and limited information pharmacists have, it's always better to be safe than sorry.

 

[Sparda29]

When I open my own pharmacy, I will install sentry guns inside the pharmacy once they are better developed.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Robbers usually have accomplice and they just wait outside till you say you have med in stock to rob you.

They just show up unannounced, usually.

 

[Doctor M]

well, he may say "i take 3 tid and my doctor gives me a 3 month supply so I need 810" or something

Better to be safe than sorry...right? either way, we dont have a problem here, i dont ever criticize any pharmacist for being vigilant (not that i am being critical or anything), but we do verify rx's here...yeah, we tell them we have it but we also tell them we verify the rx's before they come...we dont anticipate any problems and we havent had any...but i certainly dont have a problem doing what we do in good faith effort...

 

[Doctor M]

As a pharmacist, you spend six years in school, your license is on the line, and the safety of yourself and your staff . All of those justify the extra measures that on-duty pharmacists must do to stop drug seekers and fill control meds on time. There is nothing wrong with patients checking price. However, for stock check you need to bring in the script. Robbers usually have accomplice and they just wait outside till you say you have med in stock to rob you. Also remember that with people on maintenance medication, your local pharmacy already know ahead of time and they can stock it for you. The issue arises when a new patient presents a script with cash. DEA rules require pharmacists to make sure the script is valid before filling it. If you fill a phony without cheking it, your license is in jeopardy. So we all follow laws. With so much things going on around the world and limited information pharmacists have, it's always better to be safe than sorry.

in 10 years of being in this business, ive never had a problem with law enforcement...honestly, im more afraid of a dispensing error with warfain or something than fiiling a narc in good faith effort...We are vigilant here, but we treat everyone the same...we fill in good faith effort...we verify rx's we're not sure off...we are fair...

 

[litetigre]

in 10 years of being in this business, ive never had a problem with law enforcement...honestly, im more afraid of a dispensing error with warfain or something than fiiling a narc in good faith effort...We are vigilant here, but we treat everyone the same...we fill in good faith effort...we verify rx's we're not sure off...we are fair...

we treat everyone the same...narcotics or not if they die of overdose, you are responsible...how can you value one life less than other. And tell me how do you vigilantly verify a validity of the script if you don't have it in your hand?
Dea has not touched you, so what? I can fill couple of patients early controlled and I'm still off the hook. Remember we are the last line of defense.

 

[Doctor M]

we treat everyone the same...narcotics or not if they die of overdose, you are responsible...how can you value one life less than other. And tell me how do you vigilantly verify a validity of the script if you don't have it in your hand?
Dea has not touched you, so what? I can fill couple of patients early controlled and I'm still off the hook. Remember we are the last line of defense.

I appreciate the information and i dont want to sound unprofessional however i know that we are the last line of defense...I was taught that 10 years ago. Here is how we verify rx's:

1. We obtain the rx from the patient
2. We have internet access; we go to the NPI website and look up the doctors information such as address, phone number and any state license number.
3. We compare the information from the NPI website to the RX. If there are any discrepancies, we phone the physician. We also google the address of the physician and see if the address links to a physicians office. (If its the weekend, and we dont know the prescriber or patient, well then they wait til monday...they usually take the rx back and never come back).
4. If there are no discrepancies, and we know the prescriber, and we recognize the prescription pad, we fill the rx. We have in good faith effort verified the prescription.

It's alot harder for the chains to verify rx's cause you have no internet access...but we have many resources at our hands...We actually contacted many physicians in the area and asked for copies of their rx pads...We have the NPPES website, and we use our common sense...

 

[confettiflyer]

just curious... is this a retail pharmacy or independent?

retail... CVS in fact, we didn't care if we lied about what we had in stock, we got enough business from C2's that it didn't really matter.

 

[Doctor M]

we treat everyone the same...narcotics or not if they die of overdose, you are responsible...how can you value one life less than other. And tell me how do you vigilantly verify a validity of the script if you don't have it in your hand?
Dea has not touched you, so what? I can fill couple of patients early controlled and I'm still off the hook. Remember we are the last line of defense.

No, your not off the hook...actually as a pharmacist dispensing controls early can land you in trouble with the board of pharmacy...Patients can still OD from early refills...They stock pile their meds by filling early every month...or the board may see it as you aiding them in their addiction/dependence...

And the fact that the DEA has not touched us is that we are vigilant in our filling methods...Oh yeah, since we have internet access, we go to the Pinellas county Sheriffs office website and check to see if the pt has been jailed for any narcotic violation...

 

[litetigre]

Dr m... You miss the point. Pt calls you to check the stock without showing the prescription. Heck if I have the script in my hand, I just call up the doctor and verify their dea. The problem is that on the phone you don't know if it's a real pt or a robber. To protect the pharmacy, we give out price. But to check stock, show your face or bring in the script.

 

[Doctor M]

Dr m... You miss the point. Pt calls you to check the stock without showing the prescription. Heck if I have the script in my hand, I just call up the doctor and verify their dea. The problem is that on the phone you don't know if it's a real pt or a robber. To protect the pharmacy, we give out price. But to check stock, show your face or bring in the script.

Student, I get your point, but you asked me how we verify their rx's over the phone...We dont. Too many pharmacists are chicken sh-ts about everything...They are more afraid of Narcs and the DEA than anything...I have nothing to hide and we fill every rx with good faith efforts...As when i worked at CVS, when I was on duty, people would call and we would give the info...for 5 years this was our daytime policy...Overnite, the rph had his rules, i didnt care what he told them as long as he was safe...

Honestly student, i dont call the doctor in front of them...I discretely do it because i dont need a nervous narco in the store...I take their rx, and tell them to have a seat and i go into my office and research anything i can about the doctor and the pt...If all checks out, i fill the rx...For the most part, people calling for narcs are addicts, have dependency problems, or are in dire pain...Cant really differentiate between them...If you can, let me know how...

And you know what, id be one pissed of pt if i drove all the way down to the pharmacy to "check stock" and then have you tell me (with a smirk on your face) "Im sorry, we dont have your adderall, or morphine or whatever"....We use common sense...People calling for 800 oxycontin, use common sense...people calling for 112 oxycodone (yes we have a doctor write for 28 day supplies) yes, the medication is currently in stock...and as for price, we dont negotiate our prices...Our prices are what they are...

 

[museabuse]

I appreciate the information and i dont want to sound unprofessional however i know that we are the last line of defense...I was taught that 10 years ago. Here is how we verify rx's:

1. We obtain the rx from the patient
2. We have internet access; we go to the NPI website and look up the doctors information such as address, phone number and any state license number.
3. We compare the information from the NPI website to the RX. If there are any discrepancies, we phone the physician. We also google the address of the physician and see if the address links to a physicians office. (If its the weekend, and we dont know the prescriber or patient, well then they wait til monday...they usually take the rx back and never come back).
4. If there are no discrepancies, and we know the prescriber, and we recognize the prescription pad, we fill the rx. We have in good faith effort verified the prescription.

It's alot harder for the chains to verify rx's cause you have no internet access...but we have many resources at our hands...We actually contacted many physicians in the area and asked for copies of their rx pads...We have the NPPES website, and we use our common sense...

what if new pt comes in sat with a script for oxycontin 80 #90 and oxycodone #120. The script is on a pad you recognize and looks legit. It goes through pts insurance but pt never filled with you, do you fill it?
I say no I won't fill it because these are high doses and I can't verify you have been on med before. I have to verify with dr. These 2 scripts seem to be most popular with fake rxs. There could be an MA writing rxs and selling them or a stolen rx pad. "Sorry your in pain but you should always use same pharmacy for pain meds. Come back Monday during the day and I will gladly fill all you pain meds from that point in and keep them in stock.". I am at a chain so I get paid the same wether I fill it or not...
As an idependent you have money that plays a part in your decisions. You could fill this rx and get paid and not get in trouble with dea because it looks and smells legit, but guess what, it isn't.

 

[litetigre]

Student, I get your point, but you asked me how we verify their rx's over the phone...We dont. Too many pharmacists are chicken sh-ts about everything...They are more afraid of Narcs and the DEA than anything...I have nothing to hide and we fill every rx with good faith efforts...As when i worked at CVS, when I was on duty, people would call and we would give the info...for 5 years this was our daytime policy...Overnite, the rph had his rules, i didnt care what he told them as long as he was safe...

Honestly student, i dont call the doctor in front of them...I discretely do it because i dont need a nervous narco in the store...I take their rx, and tell them to have a seat and i go into my office and research anything i can about the doctor and the pt...If all checks out, i fill the rx...For the most part, people calling for narcs are addicts, have dependency problems, or are in dire pain...Cant really differentiate between them...If you can, let me know how...

And you know what, id be one pissed of pt if i drove all the way down to the pharmacy to "check stock" and then have you tell me (with a smirk on your face) "Im sorry, we dont have your adderall, or morphine or whatever"....We use common sense...People calling for 800 oxycontin, use common sense...people calling for 112 oxycodone (yes we have a doctor write for 28 day supplies) yes, the medication is currently in stock...and as for price, we dont negotiate our prices...Our prices are what they are...

Did you just put your foot in your mouth? You are saying that people calling for narcotics are addict. The point of the whole discussion that WVpharm made is that pharmacist should not judge, sneer, or look down to people with narcotic scripts. I don't call anybody abused, addict or anything. I just use more common sense than you. People call for 240 medthadone, 120 oxycodone are the norm. I saw some scripts for 192 tablets, 52, all kinds of number. I don't need to differentiate them. All I need is them bringing in the script.
Also, on the example that you gave: people calling for 800 oxycontin. I don't care if I have it in stock your not. I don't check stock for CII over phone. In your case, if you have it and you say no to the narcs. Aren't you the one who are lying?
And I am a student, so? Maybe I have been working for pharmacy longer than time you spend in school.
You are saying that some pharmacists are chicken when you go behind pt back and check out their information. When I got a suspected script, I told pt directly I need to check with the doctor. If they are ok with that, I proceed. If not, I return it them and they know it. I use professional judgement not some blantant no, yes argument.

 

[Doctor M]

what if new pt comes in sat with a script for oxycontin 80 #90 and oxycodone #120. The script is on a pad you recognize and looks legit. It goes through pts insurance but pt never filled with you, do you fill it?
I say no I won't fill it because these are high doses and I can't verify you have been on med before. I have to verify with dr. These 2 scripts seem to be most popular with fake rxs. There could be an MA writing rxs and selling them or a stolen rx pad. "Sorry your in pain but you should always use same pharmacy for pain meds. Come back Monday during the day and I will gladly fill all you pain meds from that point in and keep them in stock.". I am at a chain so I get paid the same wether I fill it or not...
As an idependent you have money that plays a part in your decisions. You could fill this rx and get paid and not get in trouble with dea because it looks and smells legit, but guess what, it isn't.

If you put a good faith effort in verifying the rx's and you dont feel comfortable with the rx's, thats your choice if you fill it or not...I will do whatever i can to prevent getting scammed by drug dealers, pushers and addicts...The weekends are a bit slower and we dont get that many rx's...but when we do, we do whatever we can to put a good faith effort in making sure the rx's are legal...Sorry, we're not god and we're not perfect, and yes, we are an independent but we're not in the narcotic business so if we dont like the rx, we dont fill it...We've turned many people away...

 

[Doctor M]

Did you just put your foot in your mouth? You are saying that people calling for narcotics are addict. The point of the whole discussion that WVpharm made is that pharmacist should not judge, sneer, or look down to people with narcotic scripts. I don't call anybody abused, addict or anything. I just use more common sense than you. People call for 240 medthadone, 120 oxycodone are the norm. I saw some scripts for 192 tablets, 52, all kinds of number. I don't need to differentiate them. All I need is them bringing in the script.
Also, on the example that you gave: people calling for 800 oxycontin. I don't care if I have it in stock your not. I don't check stock for CII over phone. In your case, if you have it and you say no to the narcs. Aren't you the one who are lying?
And I am a student, so? Maybe I have been working for pharmacy longer than time you spend in school.
You are saying that some pharmacists are chicken when you go behind pt back and check out their information. When I got a suspected script, I told pt directly I need to check with the doctor. If they are ok with that, I proceed. If not, I return it them and they know it. I use professional judgement not some blantant no, yes argument.

im not judging people at all, people can become addicts, you have learned that in school? Anyhow, if someone calls for 800 oxycontin, and they are slurring their speech and want the "brand", i would just tell them im not filling that w/o going into stock issues, case closed, goodbye, im not gonna lie to them...We never get to that point of stock...

Also, try being more professional in your argument..It will serve you good in the future as a pharmacist to be and try not to personally attack the person you are having a discussion with...I dont understand why you seem so defensive about the questions i answered...

 

[litetigre]

im not judging people at all, people can become addicts, you have learned that in school? Anyhow, if someone calls for 800 oxycontin, and they are slurring their speech and want the "brand", i would just tell them im not filling that w/o going into stock issues, case closed, goodbye, im not gonna lie to them...We never get to that point of stock...

Also, try being more professional in your argument..It will serve you good in the future as a pharmacist to be and try not to personally attack the person you are having a discussion with...I dont understand why you seem so defensive about the questions i answered...

I would not discuss anymore as it seems we have ressolved. You make arguments that counterattack on your arguments. You look down to people first, in this case pharmacy student. When they say that you should retract because your experience might not justify it, you come back and bite them.
The case with the oxycontin, everyone can see that I make that clear at the beginning I don't check stock for CII over phone, even if they ask for 60. You were the ones who put the whole "agreed" for the very first WVUpharm quote. You agreed to diss pharmacists who called pt abusers.
And I always respect every pharmacists, techs, pharmacy students that I have been with...young, old, retiring, newgrads, etc...I see your position as a pharmacy owner and experienced pharmacist, and it would be best for me to learn more from your experience. So case closed

 

[Doctor M]

I would not discuss anymore as it seems we have ressolved. You make arguments that counterattack on your arguments. You look down to people first, in this case pharmacy student. When they say that you should retract because your experience might not justify it, you come back and bite them.
The case with the oxycontin, everyone can see that I make that clear at the beginning I don't check stock for CII over phone, even if they ask for 60. You were the ones who put the whole "agreed" for the very first WVUpharm quote. You agreed to diss pharmacists who called pt abusers.
And I always respect every pharmacists, techs, pharmacy students that I have been with...young, old, retiring, newgrads, etc...I see your position as a pharmacy owner and experienced pharmacist, and it would be best for me to learn more from your experience. So case closed

Litetigre,

Not looking down at you or other students...but when you come on here and start saying about how "you" dont check stock or how "you" dont do this, i can tell you that only experience in the "hot seat' will prepare you in being a good pharmacist without passing judgment...but either way, i dont mind discussing these topics and i will have people disagree with me however i am merely stating how I practice and you seem to get all defensive when im just telling you how we dispense narcotics...

If you dont want to tell them anything over the phone, fine, We do and thats how we run our business...DEA and State have no say in how we run our business...We keep it Kosher and we havent had any problems...

BTW, who said I should retract? And my experience may not justify it?? I think my 10+ years does have some experience...