CA OMFS Programs

[uclaguy]

Which ones are there?
What is the general ranking (ie known to be good)?
Positives and Negatives on these schools?
Competitiveness to get in?
Where is the best place to become an extern?

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[toofache32]

For a list of programs, check out http://www.aaoms.org/residencytraining.cfm

 

[uclaguy]

Anymore information?

 

[Battlesign]

This is what I do know, and I'm sure that most people on this site would agree, that the worst program in the mid-west or south is better than the best program in CA.

I have also heard that a good question to ask at UCLA during the interview, is how many SRP&P's did you take to the OR this year? . . Hopefully this is clear enough. 😀

 

[OMFSdoc]

This is what I do know, and I'm sure that most people on this site would agree, that the worst program in the mid-west or south is better than the best program in CA.

The above statement is ABSOLUTELY WRONG!!!!!
The south has some amazing programs (i.e. Parkland, LSU, Alabama and others) and they are the reason that many people believe that the best are in the south. HOWEVER, they also have some that are quite sub-par (I will not name them because I don't want to offend anyone who might be residents there). If you would consider that any of those sub-par programs would even come close to what UCSF and UCLA (not quite as good as UCSF) has to offer, you have not done your research. Also, aside from Michigan and Case, I can't think of any outstanding midwestern programs. Stating that the WORST program in the south and midwest are better then the best in California is just not well thought out.

 

[WestCoast]

This is what I do know, and I'm sure that most people on this site would agree, that the worst program in the mid-west or south is better than the best program in CA.

The above statement is ABSOLUTELY WRONG!!!!!
The south has some amazing programs (i.e. Parkland, LSU, Alabama and others) and they are the reason that many people believe that the best are in the south. HOWEVER, they also have some that are quite sub-par (I will not name them because I don't want to offend anyone who might be residents there). If you would consider that any of those sub-par programs would even come close to what UCSF and UCLA (not quite as good as UCSF) has to offer, you have not done your research. Also, aside from Michigan, I can't think of any outstanding midwestern programs. Stating that the WORST program in the south and midwest are better then the best in California is just not well thought out.

Well, coming from UCLA, i could confidently say that its not very strong. in fact, they take no trauma calls at ucla med center. all the trauma are taken by ent and plastics who dominate the scene. only trauma they take is at harbor-ucla. i would say their biggest strength is implants, because they have an implant center run by an oral surgeon. they have pretty decent orthognathic at kaiser with schwartz. ucsf is ok in my opinion. interviewed there. they do decent variety of procedures but not heavy volume. i hear uop, fresno, loma linda are good. loma linda is supposed to be the best kept secret on the west coast. besides uop, fresno and loma linda are located in areas where that is the only major medical center so needless to say they get heavy volume and broad scope. uop is directed by indresano, fresno by robert julian III and loma linda, alan herford, a parkland graduate.

 

[PTL]

how about USC?

 

[dentigerous]

what is considered the strongest OMS program in cali?

 

[OMFSdoc]

Ucsf

 

[dentigerous]

Ucsf

If you don't mind can you explain why?

 

[WestCoast]

Ucsf

fyi. they have quite a few faculty trained under kaban while he was at ucsf and graduates of mgh omfs under kaban.

 

[WestCoast]

how about USC?

from what i hear, based upon county hospital, so a lot of trauma, especially mandibles. i think decent amount of cases but hard to imagine that they get a lot of elective cases since they don't work with private patients of faculty. i hear they have a poor relations with dental school located 20 miles away so they don't get too many implants. but i hear that residents cut pretty much the all the cases.

 

[esclavo]

fyi. they have quite a few faculty trained under kaban while he was at ucsf and graduates of mgh omfs under kaban.

My program director trained under Kaban. I had dinner with 3 MGH grads in Denver. They all think training under him is vastly overrated. Good teacher, very knowledgable but MGH has such limited scope. My attending did more orbital floors and ZMC's his first week as an attending at my program than he SAW his entire MGH experience. He thinks our scope of practice and exposure would is far beyond what he got at MGH. I wouldn't call training under Kaban or the places that he has worked necessarily excellent programs because of his being there....

 

[WestCoast]

My program director trained under Kaban. I had dinner with 3 MGH grads in Denver. They all think training under him is vastly overrated. Good teacher, very knowledgable but MGH has such limited scope. My attending did more orbital floors and ZMC's his first week as an attending at my program than he SAW his entire MGH experience. He thinks our scope of practice and exposure would is far beyond what he got at MGH. I wouldn't call training under Kaban or the places that he has worked necessarily excellent programs because of his being there....

i agree

 

[esclavo]

My program director trained under Kaban. I had dinner with 3 MGH grads in Denver. They all think training under him is vastly overrated. Good teacher, very knowledgable but MGH has such limited scope. My attending did more orbital floors and ZMC's his first week as an attending at my program than he SAW his entire MGH experience. He thinks our scope of practice and exposure would is far beyond what he got at MGH. I wouldn't call training under Kaban or the places that he has worked necessarily excellent programs because of his being there....

My own reply sounds too harsh I suppose. He is a smart guy, published a ton, contributed in many ways to the specialty. I shouldn't make him sound like a slouch, that would be an innacuracy.

 

[Doggie]

Ucsf

I recently spoke with an applicant when he was interviewing at my program. He told me that UCSF's old 7 year curriculum will be changed to the traditional 6-year program starting next year.

Fast-forward 6 years............they are going to have 8 chief residents. That would suck ass........

 

[WestCoast]

I recently spoke with an applicant when he was interviewing at my program. He told me that UCSF's old 7 year curriculum will be changed to the traditional 6-year program starting next year.

Fast-forward 6 years............they are going to have 8 chief residents. That would suck ass........

maybe they can take turns placing screws for the plates.

 

[jk5177]

Any words on Harbor UCLA?

 

[senpai]

Any words on Harbor UCLA?

As the name implies, the program is based out of Harbor-UCLA Medical Center in Torrance rather than Ronald Reagan Medical center on Campus at UCLA in Westwood where the 6 year is. All of the Trauma exposure for both the Harbor (4 year) and UCLA (6 year) is at Harbor since, as discussed before, Ronald Reagan is full of Plastics/ENT. Harbor guys, thus, see more trauma. The clinic floor is always bouncing at Harbor, UCLA is generally slower. Harbor residents also spend more time at Kaiser with Schwartz - tons of orthognathics, etc.

Harbor has had some recent issues with the hospital losing accredidation but am not sure exactly what the story is or if it will have any effect on anything...

 

[toothsniper]

1- Good For someone who just wants to do bread and butter OMFS
2- No cosmetics
3- No radical necks
4- No Free Flaps
5- Lots of trauma, orthognathic, dentoalveolar, and sedation
6- Enough implants (could be better)
7- poor TMJ one or two total joints, a few scope type procedures
8- Great quality of life in California!! I live on the beach
9- The accreditation isn't an issue, passed without having to report.
10- You do share some time with the 6yr westwood guys

In all seriousness this isn’t a program to look into if you are hardcore wanting to do everything see everything and come out of residency having done everything. However, if you are looking for private practice wanting to do some teeth some implants some sedation while still having privileges at a hospital for a few orthognathics and trauma goodies than this is your place.
Also, its a county program so the hospitals are scary just fyi , but the patients are appreciative which makes up for it a little.
hope this helps

Oh and as far as my two cents on the best program in california depends on what your looking for. the most balls to the wall full scope place is Loma Linda by a landslide. I have good friends at both UCSF, Loma Linda and UCLA 6yr and I'm at Harbor and its not even a close race. USC would follow Loma Linda they are just a bit limited being a county institution as well.

--Toothsniper

 

[GTFOOMICT]

Oh and as far as my two cents on the best program in california depends on what your looking for. the most balls to the wall full scope place is Loma Linda by a landslide. I have good friends at both UCSF, Loma Linda and UCLA 6yr and I'm at Harbor and its not even a close race. USC would follow Loma Linda they are just a bit limited being a county institution as well.

--Toothsniper

Where does Highland fit in? LLU does seem awesome.

 

[drhobie7]

It may be useful to look at the current year surgery log when you interview at places. This will give you an idea of how many and what type of cases are done. Loma Linda is supposed to be a great program. Same goes for UOP/Highland. I'm very happy at UCLA. I was never interested in cosmetics or oncology, so for me it's perfect.

 

[Phidippides]

Which ones are there?
What is the general ranking (ie known to be good)?
Positives and Negatives on these schools?
Competitiveness to get in?
Where is the best place to become an extern?

It seems that questions like these come up a lot: which ones are the best, what are the strengths and weaknesses, rank these programs, etc. The thing is everyone is looking for "good" training but that "good" is defined differently by different people. Some people look for broad scope, some people look for a good private practice training. Some people don't want to do cancer, others love it. So a little of one type of procedure could be a strength or weakness depending on who you are.

I have found that there are so many aspects to a residency program that I really had to do find out what I wanted first before I could rank them and this rank list probably only works for me as others would see the strengths and weaknesses differently. Obviously each program has its characteristics and personality: 4 vs 6, cost of living, scope of practice, cost of med school, location in the US, personalities of attendings and residents, moonlighting, etc.

A suggestion would be to state what type of program you are interested in and then ask which programs fit that description. I hope this helps. My advice is free and that is about what it is worth.

 

[Phidippides]

I have heard good things about Fresno. It seems to be a program that is not talked about much but from what I hear they operate a lot. Worth looking into.

 

[jk5177]

1- Good For someone who just wants to do bread and butter OMFS
2- No cosmetics
3- No radical necks
4- No Free Flaps
5- Lots of trauma, orthognathic, dentoalveolar, and sedation
6- Enough implants (could be better)
7- poor TMJ one or two total joints, a few scope type procedures
8- Great quality of life in California!! I live on the beach
9- The accreditation isn't an issue, passed without having to report.
10- You do share some time with the 6yr westwood guys

In all seriousness this isn’t a program to look into if you are hardcore wanting to do everything see everything and come out of residency having done everything. However, if you are looking for private practice wanting to do some teeth some implants some sedation while still having privileges at a hospital for a few orthognathics and trauma goodies than this is your place.
Also, its a county program so the hospitals are scary just fyi , but the patients are appreciative which makes up for it a little.
hope this helps

Oh and as far as my two cents on the best program in california depends on what your looking for. the most balls to the wall full scope place is Loma Linda by a landslide. I have good friends at both UCSF, Loma Linda and UCLA 6yr and I'm at Harbor and its not even a close race. USC would follow Loma Linda they are just a bit limited being a county institution as well.

--Toothsniper

How many implants does the average resident do? And what about bone grafts? You feel comfortable with them?

 

[Michael Scarn]

I will place the 30 implants...

 

[draldar]

papilla?