Cadaver labs in residency

[AttackNME]

Any of you have cadaver lab access and instrument sets at your programs? Undoubtedly it would be a valuable experience, I'd like to hear how your program has it setup and how you got instruments if you have any? I would love to get my hands on a minifrag set to get familiar with or anything for that matter.

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[ldsrmdude]

At the program I just graduated from we didn't have a cadaver lab, but anytime were usually able to get cadaver limbs pretty easily with a little notice and some helpful reps. We would usually set up a workshop with the rep and get the cadaver limbs and use their instruments for the workshop, and often they would let us keep the limbs for a while longer so we could practice dissections skills, suturing, etc. We usually had access to cadaver limbs, but unless we had a specific rep bringing in their instruments, we didn't have much to use other than the basic scalpels, pickups, needle drivers, etc. Like AB said, attendings with connections helps a lot.

 

[dyk343]

We have 1-2 per month. We do it in our ORs. The reps bring the limbs and all required instruments (with exception of power). It's not hard to get them to do a cadaver lab at all. Really just a simple call.

In contrast to ldsrmdude we haven't been able to talk them into leaving them for us to practice on. I think it might be a state law where I am at that the limbs have to leave with the rep the same day?

 

[jscholl]

We have access to a "cadaver lab" at the program that I am at. However, the cadavers are the patients who get BKA's at our hospital, which generally are ischemic/necrotic/infected limbs. Regardless, the experience is helpful because you can get used to holding blades/saws/drills without the pressure of an attending standing over you.

 

[darazon]

We have our own lab, instruments, TPS units, and our own limbs -usually from mid thigh down. We have it every month. We have excellent relationships with S&N, Arthrex, Stryker, and Tornier, and they will bring in any fun stuff for us to play with.

 

[air bud]

We each get 4 limbs a year. Monthly cadaver lab, can work on our own whenever we want. Have all instruments, scope tower, plates/screws. ex fix etc. Have reps come in each lab (3x) month with stuff. Incredibly valuable experience.

 

[dtrack22]

Any of you have cadaver lab access and instrument sets at your programs? Undoubtedly it would be a valuable experience, I'd like to hear how your program has it setup and how you got instruments if you have any? I would love to get my hands on a minifrag set to get familiar with or anything for that matter.

We don't have a cadaver lab, but as residents we operate without attendings scrubbing 95% of the time. Not a huge deal not having dead limbs when you have live ones...

We are able to book cases with just about any hardware set we want and because of that we have a good relationship with a fair number of companies. We probably go out to their local offices once every other month for some cadaver work. This would be your best bet IMO. Text your reps and ask if they'll set something up for you. If you have the facilities to hold a lab at your hospital/program then I'm sure you could get them to bring everything you would need to your place.

 

[JollyFoot]

We don't have a cadaver lab, but as residents we operate without attendings scrubbing 95% of the time. Not a huge deal not having dead limbs when you have live ones...

Why are you even doing a residency? If you are operating 95% of the time without an attending scrubbed in, what's the point? It's important to remember that those "live ones" you are practicing on are attached to someone's mother,father,grandparent etc and you really shouldn't be "practicing" on them.

 

[dtrack22]

Why are you even doing a residency? If you are operating 95% of the time without an attending scrubbed in, what's the point? It's important to remember that those "live ones" you are practicing on are attached to someone's mother,father,grandparent etc and you really shouldn't be "practicing" on them.

The point is to get practice. It's not like our attendings aren't in the room watching and teaching. You realize that at some point you are going to do a procedure that you've never done before on "someone's mother, father, grandparent" by yourself without an attending, right? I hope for the patient's sake you have the fortitude to handle that.

 

[I post PRN]

The point is to get practice. It's not like our attendings aren't in the room watching and teaching. You realize that at some point you are going to do a procedure that you've never done before on "someone's mother, father, grandparent" by yourself without an attending, right? I hope for the patient's sake you have the fortitude to handle that.

We are supposed to operate during residency? I thought they paid us to hold Senn retractors?

 

[heybrother]

That's living the dream. I pay to hold retractors.

 

[I post PRN]

That's living the dream. I pay to hold retractors.

Unfortunately there are a lot of residency programs out there that have residents hold retraction for a lot of cases.

 

[JollyFoot]

The point is to get practice. It's not like our attendings aren't in the room watching and teaching. You realize that at some point you are going to do a procedure that you've never done before on "someone's mother, father, grandparent" by yourself without an attending, right? I hope for the patient's sake you have the fortitude to handle that.

The issue isn't whether you need an attending holding your hand to do the procedure. An attending can scrub in, retract and let you fly. They don't have to be standing in the corner in to be hands off. But I know there are times I am doubling or retracting when I was a first year and I had a hard time seeing what exactly was done so I can only imagine how much an attending is missing when not scrubbed in. And my point wasn't to knock working with an attending not scrubbed in but more knocking that your attendings do not scrub "95%" of your cases.

Clearly just a difference of opinion, no right or wrong way. I do not see myself "practicing" in the OR that's what a lab is for. The OR is where you perform and fine tune small details not figure out how to do a proper lateral release or do an os trigonum dissection for the first time ever. That's why my program has a cadaver lab, for practice. Hopefully everyone is at a program that allows you to build solid surgical principles that you can apply when not in residency to allow you to do that procedure you have never done before.

 

[Pronation]

Unfortunately there are a lot of residency programs out there that have residents hold retraction for a lot of cases.

There are even some fellowships that are like that too.

 

[Creflo]

I went to the morgue at my residency hospital when I wanted to work on a foot. I met the person who had access to the refrigerated room and would go by her office and ask if she would let me in, she was always helpful.