Caffeine

[Brian Griffin]

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I'm currently not a caffeine drinker. I'm not necessarily opposed to it or anything, I just don't like the taste of coffee or diet soda, and I try to avoid regular soda for health reasons. Plus, I've noticed that I seem to feel better without it (no energy ups and downs, and no withdrawal headaches).

I was just wondering though, is it pretty much a requirement to become a caffeine junkie during residency in order to make it through overnight calls and night float? I'm starting internship (Internal Medicine), and we have overnight call, and I was curious if there's anyone out there that doesn't drink caffeine and has some other alternatives for staying awake/energized. Thanks!

 

[lynda19]

try lots of water.keep an almond & raisin mix in your pocket & other portable natural fruits-apples, banana, oranges (in a baggie of course). I would stay away from the store bought trail mixes, they usually have lots of calories & sugar.Better to make your own. Stay away from simple carbohydrates (bagels, white breads, white pasta, sugary snacks). I would also limit the amount of juice you drink.One glass is good enough--those bottles they sell in the cafeteria have lots of sugar & calories-you are asking for a crash later on. Take a 40-60 minute nap before your shift-residents reported less fatigue & feeling less burdened by their work after doing so. Keep away from alcohol (of course prior to shift but I mean in general anyways) its dehydrating & keeps you from taking in healthy alternatives.
If you really feel you need caffeine, studies show drinking 2 ounces every 4 hours to be more beneficial than a full 8 ounce cup once. Try to stay away from it if you can, it can become a crutch. Better not to even start if you havent yet (IMHO). Also, be sure to stop drinking it about 8 hours before you would like to sleep if you do drink it.

 

[RussianJoo]

well if you don't like the taste you can always take caffeine pills.. but other than caffeine there are no other good legal alternatives to staying up..

 

[Dimoak]

Have you tried 5 Hour Energy?

 

[lynda19]

If you stay healthy on & off of your shift you wont need artificial means. I mean, yes you are likely to feel fatigue, this is normal as your body isnt meant to abruptly change to a night schedule BUT it will be doable if your body is in a healthy state. Good luck!


hahah you should see my other post 😛

 

[psymed]

I'm a coffee drinker and didn't like the taste when I first started drinking it to help me stay awake during study sessions. I think I got addicted to the caffeine though which is when I realized that I couldn't stay away from it.

It creeps up on you and before you know it you're hooked. Its like when you start going to Starbucks every week. Then you have to go twice a week and pretty soon it has to be Starbucks or it just isn't coffee. Then come the extra shots of espresso.

 

[Freibi]

If you stay healthy on & off of your shift you wont need artificial means. I mean, yes you are likely to feel fatigue, this is normal as your body isnt meant to abruptly change to a night schedule BUT it will be doable if your body is in a healthy state. Good luck!

I would add that all you need to do is to sleep enough before and after your call days (easier said than done, true). I would sometimes go to bed post-call at 2pm and sleep through 6am the next morning (if I didn't get any sleep during call). Sounds too much? Not if you have to make up for two 8h sleep periods (in 48h) replacing them with one 16h "nap". After all, the natural cure for lack of sleep is good old sleeping.
I never wanted to get addicted and I don't like the taste of coffee either, so I'm not envious of everybody carrying around their coffee canisters. You can do well in residency without succumbing to caffeine! When you get really tired on call, remember to stay busy - or get a few zzz's when you can!

 

[pillowhead]

I'm currently not a caffeine drinker. I'm not necessarily opposed to it or anything, I just don't like the taste of coffee or diet soda, and I try to avoid regular soda for health reasons. Plus, I've noticed that I seem to feel better without it (no energy ups and downs, and no withdrawal headaches).

I was just wondering though, is it pretty much a requirement to become a caffeine junkie during residency in order to make it through overnight calls and night float? I'm starting internship (Internal Medicine), and we have overnight call, and I was curious if there's anyone out there that doesn't drink caffeine and has some other alternatives for staying awake/energized. Thanks!

you definitely do not have to be a heavy caffeine drinker to get through residency. On my call days, I tend to drink a caffeinated drink around lunch time to sort of get my through the evening but that's about it. I don't ever drink caffeine after dinner time because if there's a chance I may sleep on call, the I want to sleep and not be all revved up from caffeine. Plus I want to sleep once I get home. I definitely sleep more than the average resident probably does--I try really hard to get 7 1/2 - 8 hours a night depending on the rotation and I do not go crazy on my days off by staying up ridiculously late.

plus caffeine is a strong diuretic for me and I hate feeling dehydrated esp. because I probably don't drink enough on call anyway.

 

[SLUser11]

try lots of water.keep an almond & raisin mix in your pocket & other portable natural fruits-apples, banana, oranges (in a baggie of course). I would stay away from the store bought trail mixes,.........Take a 40-60 minute nap before your shift.......

If you stay healthy on & off of your shift you wont need artificial means. I mean, yes you are likely to feel fatigue, this is normal as your body isnt meant to abruptly change to a night schedule BUT it will be doable if your body is in a healthy state. Good luck!

I would add that all you need to do is to sleep enough before and after your call days (easier said than done, true). ........You can do well in residency without succumbing to caffeine! When you get really tired on call, remember to stay busy - or get a few zzz's when you can!

Okay.👍


I would say that for the vast majority of residents in a busy residency, you will need to drink caffeine from time to time, and many people absolutely abuse it.

For me, it is not the call nights where it's hard to stay awake. I rarely drink caffeine at night (for fear of not being able to sleep). However, I am frequently tired during the mornings after, etc. In my experience, it is usually during the regular workday hours that you'll feel the effects of sleep deprivation.

Of course, I have to admit I haven't tried the home-made trail mix approach. That may be my main problem......

 

[lynda19]

lol trail mix has good source of protein, carbs & fat--its a cure all I tell ya! 🙂
Someone once told me I should patent the almond & golden raisin mix I used to carry around...although its not much of an invention I admit lol

 

[Impromptu]

Planning ahead and getting a goodnight's sleep will do wonders.

A quick powernap in the afternoon may help you cope through the night.

If all else fails, amphetamines are much better than caffeine, and probably have about the same potential for addiction. (If only they were over the counter like in the 50s and 60s).

 

[lynda19]

If all else fails, amphetamines are much better than caffeine, and probably have about the same potential for addiction. (If only they were over the counter like in the 50s and 60s).

ok now i know you must have read my other post...

 

[RussianJoo]

i don't know it's really hard to stay up all night when you're used to going to bed at 10pm and waking up at 6am everyday.. even with coffee i find myself falling asleep as soon as i finish the cup. with that said some of the stuff you guys said makes me think you guys never truely stayed up for 24 hours or more.. it really does get tough, especially when you have to think of what you're doing.

Then again when you're busy doing stuff time flies a lot faster and if you're adrenaline is pumping because you're working on a crashing patient at 4am then you really don't need coffee or surreptitious amphetamines. you got the natural ones that don't come up on the drug screen. or maybe they do.. hey Lynda maybe you have a Pheo and that's why your test was positive?

 

[SLUser11]

with that said some of the stuff you guys said makes me think you guys never truely stayed up for 24 hours or more.....

You're right. But then again, I did go into one of the "lifestyle specialties." What is it again, the ROAG to happiness? I can't remember.....


I stick by my statement that the greatest need for caffeine comes during regular daylight hours. One of my bosses, who is an old school general surgeon in his 60s, says that for him, it's not the day after a long night on call, but the next day after that where he's really dragging.



Also, I wanted to add that I think the Rock Star Lite drinks are delicious, and they're my energy drink of choice, with Full Throttle unleaded in a distant second place. Interestingly, my love of alcohol and my love of energy drinks have not converged.....yet.....

 

[Winged Scapula]

You're right. But then again, I did go into one of the "lifestyle specialties." What is it again, the ROAG to happiness? I can't remember.....

Not all of us need a lot of sleep. I have tried coffee several times in my life and without massive amounts of sugar and cream, never liked it.

Nor do I find a need for caffeine. I drink caffeinated beverages because I like the taste but do not feel perkier with them. I just as often drank Diet Sprite when on call as a diet cola.

I stick by my statement that the greatest need for caffeine comes during regular daylight hours. One of my bosses, who is an old school general surgeon in his 60s, says that for him, it's not the day after a long night on call, but the next day after that where he's really dragging.

He is not the only one. I've said the same on the "lifestyle forum" - I was ok through the night and even the day after being on call (although being awake for 42 hours was a bit rough). It was the next day that I felt worse. I found that staying up as long as I could (rather than going to bed post-call) made me feel better.

Also, I wanted to add that I think the Rock Star Lite drinks are delicious, and they're my energy drink of choice, with Full Throttle unleaded in a distant second place. Interestingly, my love of alcohol and my love of energy drinks have not converged.....yet.....

Too bad...an energy drink and Vodka is quite good. I think I might have one tonight. Have not tried Full Throttle...I like good old Red Bull and Monsters although my fav drink right now is Fresca Peach. 😍 (sorry, no caffeine).

I routinely only sleep 5-6 hours per night so am not in need of regular caffeine. RussianJoo...remember not everyone needs 8 hours of sleep a night. If I'm sleeping that much, I'm sick.

 

[RussianJoo]

i guess i am one of the few people that loves the taste of coffee.. i love the smell too.. i drink my coffee black with no sugar or any sort of sweetner.. nothing beats a good cup of coffee.. start with good quality beans (always use whole beans and grind them yourself just before brewing) and use either bottled or filtered water and remember to change the filter regularly.. my new coffeemaker grinds the beans fresh before it brews the coffee very convinient and ohh so deliciouse.. and i drink decaf the same way, the problem is it's hard to find a good decaf bean.

 

[RussianJoo]

but yes getting rest a few days before the actual call day is important so is propper hydration. being dehydrated can make you extra tired and run down... but still even getting a few hours of sleep is better than nothing.. and unless you're doing something that has your heart racing with adrenaline like working on a code or doing emergency surgery it's going to be very hard to stay up the full 24 hours or more and a lot of time you have to as a resident on call especially as an intern. it's not unusual for interns to be up for over 30 hours straight while on call. and if you have personally never done that without coffee or someother enegry drink or something with caffeine don't say that a simple trail mix will keep you up.. cause unless that trail mix has amphetamines instead of M&Ms it will not work. or you're just a superpower human being.

 

[Winged Scapula]

don't say that a simple trail mix will keep you up.. cause unless that trail mix has amphetamines instead of M&Ms it will not work

 

[Winged Scapula]

i guess i am one of the few people that loves the taste of coffee.. i love the smell too.. i drink my coffee black with no sugar or any sort of sweetner.. nothing beats a good cup of coffee.. start with good quality beans (always use whole beans and grind them yourself just before brewing) and use either bottled or filtered water and remember to change the filter regularly.. my new coffeemaker grinds the beans fresh before it brews the coffee very convinient and ohh so deliciouse.. and i drink decaf the same way, the problem is it's hard to find a good decaf bean.

I love the smell of coffee.

I love coffee flavoured ice cream, candies, etc. But a black coffee always tastes bitter to me without the cream and sugar.

 

[RussianJoo]

I love the smell of coffee.

I love coffee flavoured ice cream, candies, etc. But a black coffee always tastes bitter to me without the cream and sugar.

maybe you're not using the right amount of coffee? i heard if you don't use enough the water extracts more from the beans and thus you get the bitter taste.. also maybe the coffee is just stale? to be honest had bitter coffee many times but whenever i make it at home and don't skimp on the amount of coffee nor the quality and freshness of beans and water it's never bitter. i can proudly say i haven't drank a bitter cup in a few years and it's simply because i just brew it myself. first of all it's so much cheaper and secondly many times it's tastier too.. also i like the flavored coffee's like irish cream or hazelnut or french vanilla and i actually find those to be sweeter than the unflavored maybe it's the smell but i swear it tastes sweet to me.. or maybe i just have a brain tumor...

anyway i realize coffee isn't for everyone, but it can be tricky to brew it right but once you do it correctly it's very easy to brew a proper cup and it's soo tasty.. one of the best cups i ever had was at a holiday dinner at an ex-girlfriends family friends house and those people were gourmets and their teenage kid made the coffee.. it was hands down the best cup i ever drank. i asked what kind of coffee he used.. and he replied the coffee is nothing special but the key was to grind it fresh and the water that he used.. he said that some fancy hotel in france uses seltzer water to brew their coffee and that's what he did.. so that was the secrete to that amazing cup of coffee. to be honest i haven't gone out of my way to try that yet myself but i might pretty soon.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I suppose...although I liken your argument to those who tell me, when hearing that I despise fish, that I "just haven't had it prepared right." All fish tastes "fishy" and briny to me. Even those "mild" white fishes everyone touts.

I think I just have very sensitive taste buds as I am a very picky eater as well.

I've tried plenty of coffees, from the fresh ground type to those at the chain places, and do not like black coffee. I do like McDonald's vanilla ice coffee and any sweetened coffee. My brother is quite the coffee afficionado and has tried for years to get me to like coffee. He is the only reason I actually own a coffee pot and grinder, for his visits. Black coffee tastes bitter and sour to me.

 

[Tigerz_Fan]

i guess i am one of the few people that loves the taste of coffee.. i love the smell too.. i drink my coffee black with no sugar or any sort of sweetner.. nothing beats a good cup of coffee.. start with good quality beans (always use whole beans and grind them yourself just before brewing) and use either bottled or filtered water and remember to change the filter regularly.. my new coffeemaker grinds the beans fresh before it brews the coffee very convinient and ohh so deliciouse.. and i drink decaf the same way, the problem is it's hard to find a good decaf bean.

RJ,

You are a man after my own heart. 😍

6 months to go and I can drink coffee again (not to mention my wine!)....

 

[Excelsius]

Have you tried 5 Hour Energy?

5 Hour is nothing but a single dose of overpriced caffeine. I once tried to persuade them to reveal to me approximately how much caffeine they have in their elixir. No luck. They wouldn't even disclose the amount within +- 40%. Your money is much better spent on caffeine pills - one NoDoz can equal to 60+ 5Hours at a fraction of the cost.

I too dislike the taste of coffee and never drink it, but for all of those in the same boat, I feel like have to share a very interesting experience I had recently. Over this spring break I traveled to a Northern CA resort. It was somewhat a fancy place and everything they had there was of top quality. So the first morning they brought in the coffee and as I sat down to drink my tea, I couldn't help noticing what an enticing smell the coffee had (my gf was drinking it). I just had to give it a shot. I added a bit of extra sugar and tasted it. To my amazement, I loved it! After that, every day that I spent at the resort I only drank coffee in the morning. When I got back, I thought that perhaps I have acquired the taste for coffee and bravely proceeded with Folger's. After the first sip, I emptied the entire cup into the sink and drank tea instead. The moral of the story is that many of us don't like coffee because we have never tasted REAL coffee. Sure, I like extra sugar, just like with tea, but extra sugar and water can't convert urea into something palatable. Same with coffee. Anyway, I haven't drunk coffee since my vacation, but I am looking into buying some from the internet. FYI, the coffee that I tried was called Equator (Viennese Dark Roast type). I just looked up the link for the first time and have no idea whether $12-15/lb is expensive for coffee since I don't know the prices. If any of the coffee aficionados here can make some good recommendations about great coffee and good places to buy, go ahead and enlighten us. I mean maybe the coffee I tried was just one of a myriad of great ones out there.

Oh yeah, as an alternative to coffee, there are these coca leaves from Peru. I don't know if you can buy them online, but I know that the coca candies are available online. Unfortunately, these are useless. A friend had brought some of these "candies" with him from Peru and I tried to pull an all-nighter with them. Nothing happened. Was pretty disappointing. But I know that the coca tea can be more powerful as you can make it pretty concentrated. I don't know if the branded "coca" tea is any good compared to the fresh coca leaves. This country is overdue on some drug freedoms. Even absinthe is supposed to be illegal.

 

[RussianJoo]

I suppose...although I liken your argument to those who tell me, when hearing that I despise fish, that I "just haven't had it prepared right." All fish tastes "fishy" and briny to me. Even those "mild" white fishes everyone touts.

I think I just have very sensitive taste buds as I am a very picky eater as well.

I've tried plenty of coffees, from the fresh ground type to those at the chain places, and do not like black coffee. I do like McDonald's vanilla ice coffee and any sweetened coffee. My brother is quite the coffee afficionado and has tried for years to get me to like coffee. He is the only reason I actually own a coffee pot and grinder, for his visits. Black coffee tastes bitter and sour to me.

ok well like i said, not everyone is a coffee lover.. i just don't like it when people blame the coffee for being bitter when in reality they just haven't used proper amounts for brewing or were using a stale product.

 

[RussianJoo]

RJ,

You are a man after my own heart. 😍

6 months to go and I can drink coffee again (not to mention my wine!)....

lol too bad you're taken 😉

Just kidding.

 

[RussianJoo]

5 Hour is nothing but a single dose of overpriced caffeine. I once tried to persuade them to reveal to me approximately how much caffeine they have in their elixir. No luck. They wouldn't even disclose the amount within +- 40%. Your money is much better spent on caffeine pills - one NoDoz can equal to 60+ 5Hours at a fraction of the cost.

I too dislike the taste of coffee and never drink it, but for all of those in the same boat, I feel like have to share a very interesting experience I had recently. Over this spring break I traveled to a Northern CA resort. It was somewhat a fancy place and everything they had there was of top quality. So the first morning they brought in the coffee and as I sat down to drink my tea, I couldn't help noticing what an enticing smell the coffee had (my gf was drinking it). I just had to give it a shot. I added a bit of extra sugar and tasted it. To my amazement, I loved it! After that, every day that I spent at the resort I only drank coffee in the morning. When I got back, I thought that perhaps I have acquired the taste for coffee and bravely proceeded with Folger's. After the first sip, I emptied the entire cup into the sink and drank tea instead. The moral of the story is that many of us don't like coffee because we have never tasted REAL coffee. Sure, I like extra sugar, just like with tea, but extra sugar and water can't convert urea into something palatable. Same with coffee. Anyway, I haven't drunk coffee since my vacation, but I am looking into buying some from the internet. FYI, the coffee that I tried was called Equator (Viennese Dark Roast type). I just looked up the link for the first time and have no idea whether $12-15/lb is expensive for coffee since I don't know the prices. If any of the coffee aficionados here can make some good recommendations about great coffee and good places to buy, go ahead and enlighten us. I mean maybe the coffee I tried was just one of a myriad of great ones out there.

Oh yeah, as an alternative to coffee, there are these coca leaves from Peru. I don't know if you can buy them online, but I know that the coca candies are available online. Unfortunately, these are useless. A friend had brought some of these "candies" with him from Peru and I tried to pull an all-nighter with them. Nothing happened. Was pretty disappointing. But I know that the coca tea can be more powerful as you can make it pretty concentrated. I don't know if the branded "coca" tea is any good compared to the fresh coca leaves. This country is overdue on some drug freedoms. Even absinthe is supposed to be illegal.

i just got into coffee myself so i can't make any recommendations however.. about the coca leaves.. they're most definitely illegal in the US.. one of my high school history teachers went to peru with his wife on vacation and he said that she got frequent headaches cause of the high altitude so one of the locals gave her the coca leaves to chew.. cause they do it all the time... well they didn't know it was coca leaves at the time but once they did he realized why they made his wife's headache go away.. the coca plants are used to make cocaine and chocolate too i guess. so sure chewing a leave or doing lines of coke will get you the same affect and you'll be up all night but both are illegal in the US. as for coffee prices i pay about $9/lbs for beans at the store.. i don't think they're anything super special but there's a wide variety and they taste good to me. the brand is green mountain coffee.. I also had Hawaiian coffee once Kona is the bean not Arabica and it was pretty good. also from what i remember the lighter the roast the more caffeine content is in the beans.

 

[Norman]

I'm currently not a caffeine drinker. I'm not necessarily opposed to it or anything, I just don't like the taste of coffee or diet soda, and I try to avoid regular soda for health reasons. Plus, I've noticed that I seem to feel better without it (no energy ups and downs, and no withdrawal headaches).

I was just wondering though, is it pretty much a requirement to become a caffeine junkie during residency in order to make it through overnight calls and night float? I'm starting internship (Internal Medicine), and we have overnight call, and I was curious if there's anyone out there that doesn't drink caffeine and has some other alternatives for staying awake/energized. Thanks!

Unless someone is writing you a script for Provigil, then start drinking coffee.....

 

[docdaname]

I LOVE the smell of coffee. Especially the ground beans, before its brewed. But i dont like the taste as much (though i drink it daily). However, I prefer this drink called Function - Alternative Energy. It tastes pretty good, and it has caffeine, gaurano, and all sorts of other stuff. It keeps me energized much longer than coffee.

 

[lynda19]

it's not unusual for interns to be up for over 30 hours straight while on call. and if you have personally never done that without coffee or someother enegry drink or something with caffeine don't say that a simple trail mix will keep you up.. cause unless that trail mix has amphetamines instead of M&Ms it will not work. or you're just a superpower human being.

uh, I HAVE done it without coffee as I was a PREGNANT resident at the time. & who said trail mix will keep you up? It will however, give you a healthy source of energy in the form of calories. It sounded like the OP was reluctant to start drinking coffee so his/her only reasonable alternative is to try to stay healthy otherwise...seems you are very hung up on this trail mix. I do believe I also mentioned keep hydrated, sleep before your shift & a few other suggestions...

 

[Brian Griffin]

uh, I HAVE done it without coffee as I was a PREGNANT resident at the time. & who said trail mix will keep you up? It will however, give you a healthy source of energy in the form of calories. It sounded like the OP was reluctant to start drinking coffee so his/her only reasonable alternative is to try to stay healthy otherwise...seems you are very hung up on this trail mix. I do believe I also mentioned keep hydrated, sleep before your shift & a few other suggestions...

Just in case anyone's wondering, I survived my first week of intern year and my first overnight call!! Lynda - thought you would appreciate this - I have been bringing a baggie of trail mix and keeping it in my white coat pocket and actually eating it mid-late morning when I seem to be getting starving for some reason every day - it's been totally giving me the boost I need to get me through until lunch (which um is non-existent most of the time lol!) So don't knock it til you try it people.

As far as the whole caffeine thing goes: I knew I would probably need *something* to get me through the call. I'm still opposed to coffee - I'm just picky about drinks and I just really don't like the smell or taste of coffee, it kind of grosses me out, I know I'm weird. Plus I'm just not a fan of hot drinks in general. Anyway, I tried Diet Mt. Dew for the first time - it is surprisingly delicious! So I had one at around 7 pm... and I was a champ through the whole night (no sleep, pretty good energy). I don't know if it was the caffeine or just the fact that we were slammed with admissions/floor issues so there was really no time to be tired. BUT - I totally crashed through rounds the next morning... I was in a complete fog from like 8-11 am. Finally went home at 1 pm and was feeling ok around then (got a second wind I guess)... but I was a big mess for most of the morning. That was Sunday to Monday, and I haven't had any caffeine since, and have felt fine.

My issues with the whole caffeine thing: hate coffee (as detailed above), LOVE regular (non-diet) soda (but dont want to get started drinking it all the time for health reasons), and I basically don't want to get so dependent on it where if I don't have it at a certain time everyday I'll be worried about getting a headache. I think maybe I can get away with just drinking a diet mt dew or whatever on call days - but now the issue is, the timing of my caffeine intake - does anyone have any tricks on avoiding the major fog that hits in the morning after you've been up all night? Maybe that's when I should be drinking the caffeine instead of the evening the night before.

I know it's kind of a silly discussion but thanks for everyone's input!

 

[logos]

5 Hour is nothing but a single dose of overpriced caffeine. I once tried to persuade them to reveal to me approximately how much caffeine they have in their elixir. No luck. They wouldn't even disclose the amount within +- 40%. Your money is much better spent on caffeine pills - one NoDoz can equal to 60+ 5Hours at a fraction of the cost.

It has a small amount of caffeine. However, 5hr energy contains a megadose of vitamin B12, as in thousands of times the RDA and a little niacin for the flush value. I suspect that the B12 is active, given that I have a high tolerance for caffeine (coffee in my case) but 5hr energy keeps me wired for hours.

 

[Excelsius]

It has a small amount of caffeine. However, 5hr energy contains a megadose of vitamin B12, as in thousands of times the RDA and a little niacin for the flush value. I suspect that the B12 is active, given that I have a high tolerance for caffeine (coffee in my case) but 5hr energy keeps me wired for hours.

I disagree. Vitamin B12 can stay in your body in storage for years. Anything extra gets right out with your urine. If you have ever taken B complex, you know that it is perhaps one of the most "colorful" vitamins out there. Add to that the research - there is no research whatsoever backing up the claims that B12 increases your energy.

As for your personal experience, it could be psychological. The only way to found out would be to do a blind test. Here is an easy test for you: take two identical pills. One should be B12 and the other caffeine. You should not have any way to find out which pill you took. If after several tests you consistently find out that it was B12 keeping you up rather than caffeine, then you might be onto something. I don't think that's going to happen. Magedoses of water soluble vitamins are pointless as they are excreted. Megadoses of fat soluble vitamins can be lethal. FDA must also be really sleeping at the wheel to allow any company to overdose a patient on any given vitamin without the patient's consent. I bet you could have a successful class action law suit against 5 hour if it was found out that they overdose you on any vitamin.

I still say you are wasting your money. If you want real results from a supplement, try guarana pills. They contain some potent chemicals (besides caffeine) that are supposed to be several times stronger than caffeine and are being released in a slow fashion into the blood, rather than all at once like caffeine is.

By the way, your avatar is missing four double bonds.

 

[logos]

I disagree. Vitamin B12 can stay in your body in storage for years. Anything extra gets right out with your urine. If you have ever taken B complex, you know that it is perhaps one of the most "colorful" vitamins out there. Add to that the research - there is no research whatsoever backing up the claims that B12 increases your energy.

As for your personal experience, it could be psychological. The only way to found out would be to do a blind test. Here is an easy test for you: take two identical pills. One should be B12 and the other caffeine. You should not have any way to find out which pill you took. If after several tests you consistently find out that it was B12 keeping you up rather than caffeine, then you might be onto something. I don't think that's going to happen. Magedoses of water soluble vitamins are pointless as they are excreted. Megadoses of fat soluble vitamins can be lethal. FDA must also be really sleeping at the wheel to allow any company to overdose a patient on any given vitamin without the patient's consent. I bet you could have a successful class action law suit against 5 hour if it was found out that they overdose you on any vitamin.

I still say you are wasting your money. If you want real results from a supplement, try guarana pills. They contain some potent chemicals (besides caffeine) that are supposed to be several times stronger than caffeine and are being released in a slow fashion into the blood, rather than all at once like caffeine is.

By the way, your avatar is missing four double bonds.

Nah, no possibility of a class action suit, its water soluble and safe. They advertise that that the half mg of B12 is 8333% of the RDA. This is still way less than the dose for pernicious anemia, which is a rare condition that results from deficiency of this vitamin. It also contains niacin which is another vitamin. Niacin causes a feeling of flushing, which also serves to keep one awake.

My experience was anecdotal, of course, but I was pretty impressed with the stuff. I drank three or four of the things and didn't sleep for 48 hours or so, the last 8 of which being while I was trying to sleep. Before this experience I never would have thought it would work, aside for the caffeine. A friend of mine gave me a pack of the things and insisted I drink them because of my penchant for falling asleep anywhere (sitting, standing, eating, nearly anywhere). It was the first time in my memory where I wanted to sleep but couldn't.

I would avoid guarana. It's a dietary supplement and thus you have no assurance of dose or purity. While energy drinks are technically supplements, they typically use well accepted ingredients, like food grade caffeine.

Haha...I forgot about my avatar. Its been there for years. I put it on back when I was a caffeine fiend ... pills and coffee. I've since cut back a bit (no pills, no more than a couple cups of coffee a day). Its a 3D model, not a line diagram, so no double bonds like what you would see in line diagrams. The double bonds should be represented by lines that are thicker or a different color, but the shrinking has made the image such that I can't tell if they are there or not, they should be.

 

[RussianJoo]

isn't pernicious anema an autoimmune disease against periatal cells which make Intrensic factor which is needed for B12 absorption.. not because of a deficiancy of B12..

I think 5 hour energy has a lot to do with the whole placibo effect as well. I know of a few residents that have fallen asleep or were very tired about 2 hours after drinking that stuff. or maybe their metabolism is just different...

 

[Excelsius]

Nah, no possibility of a class action suit, its water soluble and safe. They advertise that that the half mg of B12 is 8333% of the RDA. This is still way less than the dose for pernicious anemia, which is a rare condition that results from deficiency of this vitamin. It also contains niacin which is another vitamin. Niacin causes a feeling of flushing, which also serves to keep one awake.

My experience was anecdotal, of course, but I was pretty impressed with the stuff. I drank three or four of the things and didn't sleep for 48 hours or so, the last 8 of which being while I was trying to sleep. Before this experience I never would have thought it would work, aside for the caffeine. A friend of mine gave me a pack of the things and insisted I drink them because of my penchant for falling asleep anywhere (sitting, standing, eating, nearly anywhere). It was the first time in my memory where I wanted to sleep but couldn't.

I would avoid guarana. It's a dietary supplement and thus you have no assurance of dose or purity. While energy drinks are technically supplements, they typically use well accepted ingredients, like food grade caffeine.

Haha...I forgot about my avatar. Its been there for years. I put it on back when I was a caffeine fiend ... pills and coffee. I've since cut back a bit (no pills, no more than a couple cups of coffee a day). Its a 3D model, not a line diagram, so no double bonds like what you would see in line diagrams. The double bonds should be represented by lines that are thicker or a different color, but the shrinking has made the image such that I can't tell if they are there or not, they should be.

Ok, let's think about this another way. If it really was B12 or any other vitamin that did the trick, why do you think they would need to add caffeine and refuse to disclose the amount? Don't you think that other companies would have already caught on and advertise CAFFEINE FREE energy drinks? C'mon, it is not so hard to realize that it is the caffeine here. And again, do not rule out the psychological effect (aka placebo effect). You have to do double blind experiments on several subjects to prove anything.

As for guarana, it is basically caffeine with some extra stimulants, like theophylline. If you buy from a reputable company, you can be sure about purity. There is also the option of buying "standardized," where the precision of the ingredients is ensured. I never buy any supplements from regular stores.

And energy drinks can hardly be considered as "known dosage" for any ingredients. If anything, these companies are trying to be as secretive as possible and you have no idea how much caffeine there is or what is the source. Food grade is not enough. There are a lot of vitamins out there whose enantiomers can be harmful. If you want to know exactly what you're getting, you should go with a reputable brand at one of the health-food stores or internet sites. I buy vitamins by the molecule, not by name. Vitamin E = at least eight different forms/molecules. Vitamin C has more, including the bioflavonoids. 99% of vitamin E you buy at Rite Aid and other retail stores is only 1/8th vitamin E and of that 50% is a useless, possibly harmful enantiomer. Essentially you're buying only 6.25% vitamin E! So much for saving money by going cheap. Look at the labels. You probably don't use your ochem at medschool too much, but it can come in very handy when we talk about the everyday American life - food and cosmetics. Our government seems to be ok with reasonable amounts of carcinogens in our products.

 

[Freibi]

All of this discussion stirs up in me the vision of a simpler world - a world where you can be up and where you can sleep, drink water and milk, eat bread and vegetables and fruits, meat and fish, or any combination thereof, and worry about more important things in life. Sorry, I'm regressing.
And, of course, I've done the 30 hour thing without sleep or caffeine, repeatedly, and that's why I said it can work.
Funny how you describe the "fog" on the post-call morning, BG. When the new day starts, you're wondering if it's ever gonna be time to go home, then there's that series of very slow and very fast moving hours, and then you're done and can leave - if you can (the fog makes it hard to move fast - the excitement is gone that could keep you up even then). That's why I think it's nice to allow people to read from their notes when presenting patients on rounds post-call... 😉

 

[Freibi]