calc 3 vs statistical analysis

[wons]

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hey guys, so i read i need a year of math to get into med school so i'm getting that over with right now. i'm currently in my second quarter of calc, and i'm wondering if i should continue on with calc and move on to calc 3 or go with BA 240 (statistical analysis). i ask this because i read the prereqs for a couple of school and one school said "a year of calc and/or statistics" but the thing is, that's just one school, i don't know what most schools are looking for/prefer. so what do you guys think? continue on with calc and end at calc 3 or end at BA 240? thanks.

 

[thyKnight]

i mean....partial differential equations wouldn't hurt either

 

[JESSFALLING]

Several schools specifically require statistics, so you should make sure that you take at least one semester of it if you want to apply to those schools (e.g. UC Irvine). Statistics is by far the more clinically relevant of the two. I think schools just use calculus to make sure your smart 😉.

Tl;dr - Other than stats, you've taken more than enough math for med school 🙂.

EDIT: If you really want to continue with calc, then I'd recommend taking diff. equations...which is the math behind things like wave motion, fluid mechanics, heat equation, etc...which could have some use for you in an advanced setting (like MD/PhD programs). However, you should take Calc III (too) if you plan to take physical chemistry...not that I'm suggesting that you should.

One last thought: Perhaps you could take calc-based probability and statistics at this point? Then, at least, you'd get to see some practical application for all the math you've been learning.

 

[Kickback]

Calc 3 was the hardest class I have ever taken. It's a weed-out class at my school, barely scraped by with a C. For the love of all things holy, take statistics.

 

[thyKnight]

meow./

 

[JESSFALLING]

Too bad my A+ in calculus 3 isn't going to make up for my 27 mcat. Fml.

Sorry, that shouldn't happen.

 

[MD Odyssey]

Calculus 3 tends to be one of the easiest of the traditional calculus sequence. It's essentially a generalization of one-dimensional calculus to 3-dimensional spaces and there are usually some additional topics thrown in.

Partial differential equations is a significantly more difficult course than any of the calculus courses. That said, it's also the most interesting mathematics course I've ever studied.

I have a pretty strong mathematical background and I frequently find myself having to puzzle through basic statistics. It's a subject that I really wish I knew better and, prior to medical school, I would really like to study some statistics. If you have an opportunity to take a strong, rigorous statistical analysis course, I would highly recommend it. The utility of a calculus course to a medical career is probably less than that of a good course in statistics.

 

[wons]

alright, thanks for your great inputs guys. so i'm guessing i have enough calc for med school, i'll go ahead and take stats next quarter. another question though, someone mentioned some med schools require a semester of stats, however, i run on a quarterly system, so what should i do? take 2 quarters of stats or will 1 quarter suffice? after all, with my 2 calc quarters and the upcoming stats quarter, that's a total of 2 semesters worth of math, will this count? thanks again

 

[BiopsychStudent]

If you intend to do any sort of scientific research having at least some background in statistics can be helpful.

Calculus might not be so useful.

 

[JonnyL]

Statistics will be more useful for sure.

 

[wons]

ok so i'm going to be taking stats next quarter, but the main question is will one quarter suffice? some schools want a semester worth of stats but since my school is on a quarterly system, will 1 quarter be enough? thanks

 

[coyotelime]

I'm in a medical statistics course with all medical students in the UK and they unanimously agree that it is extremely useful but easily one of the most dull classes they have ever taken.

Imho it's important so you understand how to read articles with a critical mind in the future and will facilitate collecting, sampling, analyzing, and interpreting your own data for clinical trials.

 

[VELOv]

One school that requires statistics is Medical College of Virginia; can't remember any of my other schools of interest requiring it specifically.

But yeah, anyway, my roommate's a mechanical engineer who worked as a calculus tutor while in school. He tells me every time we chat about calculus (not often, but whatever) that Calc III was the most ungodly academic experience of his life. I'm loving my Calc I, but based on the above sentiment, I know I'll be bowing out of the sequence before it's too late.

 

[VELOv]

ok so i'm going to be taking stats next quarter, but the main question is will one quarter suffice? some schools want a semester worth of stats but since my school is on a quarterly system, will 1 quarter be enough? thanks

If you have a full four quarters of maths, they'll probably gloss over the proportions. I was surprised to find that OChem labs are 2 credits, lectures are 3 apiece, yet schools only require 8 credits of OChem (two lectures and a lab by my math). There's some wiggle room, I presume.

(Edit for grammar.)

 

[MD Odyssey]

I'm in a medical statistics course with all medical students in the UK and they unanimously agree that it is extremely useful but easily one of the most dull classes they have ever taken.

Imho it's important so you understand how to read articles with a critical mind in the future and will facilitate collecting, sampling, analyzing, and interpreting your own data for clinical trials.

I should also point out that, for a motivated, bright student, statistics is easily a subject that you could teach yourself during a summer or a Christmas holiday. It's not something that you need a professor to hold your hand through and assign problems.

I recommend this: http://www.amazon.com/Principles-Statistics-M-G-Bulmer/dp/0486637603

Work through the book, and you'll probably have a better understanding of statistics than you'd ever get taking courses in a university.

 

[Lil Mick]

As a statistician, I'd disagree with the ability to teach yourself stats over a break. A basic stats course barely scratches the surface of what is commonly used in clinical research (usually don't cover survival analysis, structural equation modeling, factor analysis, or multiple regression, let alone bayesian or stochastic methods).

That aside, try to take whatever courses interest you the most. I'd recommend a calc-based statistics course or a course in regression methods after this course you're taking. That will give you a good enough background to analyse most of the studies you'll read in clinical journals and give you a foundation if you want to do your own analyses for simpler study designs.

With respect to calc, it's useful for pchem and will help you if you continue in statistics; however, it is not required. I don't think that any adcom is going to take issue with taking 3 math courses (3 quarters) but falling a quarter short of something. It's 3 semesters of math.

 

[UrshumMurshum]

Calc 3's curriculum varies by school. If it involves stoke's theorem, the divergence theorem and stuff like that I'd hold off if you don't have to take it.

Vector integrals are not your friend.

EDIT: Statistics is easy if you know how to use the correct computer software. I really wish school's taught computer software and underlying theory because no one carries out a baynesian integral with 4 or 5 parameters by hand. They use monte carlo methods with software.

 

[Lil Mick]

Exactly. There are so many statistical packages (R, MPlus, SAS, SPSS, Matlab...) that you really need a course in programming to figure it out (and that requires someone to help problem-shoot).

It's also tricky to discern which of the myriad of methods work best to answer the question at hand (which multiple imputation method will best help you fill in missing data, whether to use GEE or multilevel modeling to test your hypotheses in longitudinal data...). Teachers go a long way in helping you navigate those situations...

 

[Noah Capurso]

In terms of your med school application, either class will be fine assuming you get the same grade. My first suggesting is to take which ever class you anticipate being more interesting. If they both seem equally interesting (or not) to you, than I would suggest taking statistics. Unless you end up doing computational biomedical research, statistics will be much more useful to you as a physician reading the relevant scientific literature. And this is coming from someone who took calc 3 but did not take statistics in college. I liked calc 3 fine, and did fine in it, and got into med school having taken it, but I sure wish looking back that I had a stronger stats background. It is important to really understand large scale clinical studies. Unfortunately, the stats classes in med school are generally pretty quick and designed to just get you through the Boards, not to help you really understand the scientific literature per se.

 

[wons]

oh wow, thanks for the great responses guys. my community college seems to only have 2 stats classes, math 131 and BA 240 which is statistical analysis but is somehow under the "Business" section. i might just hold off on stats and take it at the U

 

[MD Odyssey]

Exactly. There are so many statistical packages (R, MPlus, SAS, SPSS, Matlab...) that you really need a course in programming to figure it out (and that requires someone to help problem-shoot).

It's also tricky to discern which of the myriad of methods work best to answer the question at hand (which multiple imputation method will best help you fill in missing data, whether to use GEE or multilevel modeling to test your hypotheses in longitudinal data...). Teachers go a long way in helping you navigate those situations...

I tend to agree with you. But the majority of the statistics courses offered for undergraduates, particularly those of the 'biostatistics' variety, tend to fall short.

 

[dmf2682]

I tend to agree with you. But the majority of the statistics courses offered for undergraduates, particularly those of the 'biostatistics' variety, tend to fall short.

While I agree a motivated student could teach themselves statistics that doesn't count for anything when applying to med school. They probably want to see some sort of documentation (ie a transcript record) that you've learned the material.

 

[MD Odyssey]

While I agree a motivated student could teach themselves statistics that doesn't count for anything when applying to med school. They probably want to see some sort of documentation (ie a transcript record) that you've learned the material.

True enough. I was distinguishing between ability and what appears on paper. A huge proportion of physicians have probably taken a statistics course, but that doesn't mean they have any clue what p-values are.

 

[LupaCupcake]

Stats was sooooooooooo boring, but I am glad I have it. I personally say a balance of calc and stats is best. You have 2 calcs, great, now go get some stats.😀

We had a huge final project in stats. It was painfully long. Have fun with stats! 🙂

 

[MD Odyssey]

Stats was sooooooooooo boring, but I am glad I have it. I personally say a balance of calc and stats is best. You have 2 calcs, great, now go get some stats.😀

We had a huge final project in stats. It was painfully long. Have fun with stats! 🙂

There is a tremendous beauty and wonder in mathematics that is completely unseen until you've gone far, far, down the rabbit hole. Calculus is simply the doorway - so much happens once you advance beyond it and it will completely change the way you see the world.

It's really one of those red pill vs. blue pill type of things. You will never see it from my perspective until you've swallowed the red pill. And once you have, you will be telling yourself that, even if you could go back, you would never really want to. There is SO much more to science and mathematics that physicians will never see, unfortunately. I'm thankful that I will never have to number among their ranks.

 

[dmf2682]

There is a tremendous beauty and wonder in mathematics that is completely unseen until you've gone far, far, down the rabbit hole. Calculus is simply the doorway - so much happens once you advance beyond it and it will completely change the way you see the world.

It's really one of those red pill vs. blue pill type of things. You will never see it from my perspective until you've swallowed the red pill. And once you have, you will be telling yourself that, even if you could go back, you would never really want to. There is SO much more to science and mathematics that physicians will never see, unfortunately. I'm thankful that I will never have to number among their ranks.

What kind of craft beer were you drinking last night? 🙂

 

[bonoboMD]

the trend seems to be that medical schools are increasing their mathematical admissions requirements. I chose to only take 1 semester of calc and no statistics when I was in undergrad because at the time only a few medical schools required those courses. I would suggest that you err on the safe side and take 2 quarters of statistics because by the time you are applying to medical school, a school that you are interested in may decide to require statistics. However, I would also recommend that you research which schools currently require 1 semester of statistics and give their admissions office a call and ask them if they currenly make exceptions for 1 quarter of statistics. You may also want to call any schools that you have your heart set on and ask them the likelihood that they will require 1 semester of statistics in the near future and the likelihood that they will accept 1 quarter instead. They will be much more helpful than SDN.

 

[dmf2682]

Ok serious question for those in the know. If I'm green belt certified in six sigma will med schools know what that is and waive any statistics requirement they might have?

 

[MD Odyssey]

What kind of craft beer were you drinking last night? 🙂

A very nice, double black IPA.

 

[dmf2682]

A very nice, double black IPA.

Ever try new Holland's Dragon's Milk? You should add a corollary blog concerning beverage reviews and suggestions: the beer Iliad