Californians Have It Easy

[liverotcod]

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After reading in countless posts how tough Californians have it compared to applicants from other states, I got curious: is this true? I believe the attached file, an excel reformat of 2003 AAMC data, shows that it is most definitely not.

In fact, California is at about the middle of the list with 51.8% rejects. DC, CO, WA, AK and NM are the worst at 64.5%, 62.6%, 60.9% and 59.7% respectively getting in NOWHERE. Of these, CO and WA have enough applicants to make the data significant.

But wait, you say! How about in-state matriculation? Surely California applicants have a poorer shot in-state than anyone else? Nope. California is tenth among states that have med schools, again following CO and WA with their relatively large number of applicants.

Anyway, I know we *all* have it tough. Applicants from my state, Virginia, are rejected 53% of the time. Wish me luck!

 

[willthatsall]

Thank you for exposing Californians for the whiners they really are.

 

[liverotcod]

Thank you for exposing Californians for the whiners they really are.

My pleasure...

 

[SaltySqueegee]

Your zip file had a virus! 😱 You Suck!


















😱 🙄

 

[SaltySqueegee]

Just Kidding! Psyche! 😀 😎

And yes, we have it just as bad as the rest, we just know how to make it sound worse. 🙄

 

[thewzdoc]

It?s only showing ~4,000 applicants for California?..

 

[bkmonkey]

just because some people don't get to live in california doesn't mean they have to whine...

 

[liverotcod]

It?s only showing ~4,000 applicants for California?..

True, which is the most for any state. Texas and New York follow. This means that although by percent CA is in the middle, there is a higher quantity of disappointed applicants from CA.

 

[blz]

Good info. Really sucks for foreigners. Guess we gotta give some props for the foreign applicants because I hardly see them complaining at all.

 

[Jalby]

20% of all aplicants get to stay in the state. Our state schools have average GPA's of 3.65+ and MCAT's of 30+. You tell me it's not harder for us to get into medical school than a place like Texas, New York, or countless other states with schools??

 

[Jalby]

The 20% who get to stay in state is the 9th lowest number. That just means we are a hell of a lot better at getting the out of state spots if we are able to get to the national average of people accepted. Yes it's harder here than other places.

Damn statistics.

 

[liverotcod]

20% of all aplicants get to stay in the state. Our state schools have average GPA's of 3.65+ and MCAT's of 30+. You tell me it's not harder for us to get into medical school than a place like Texas, New York, or countless other states with schools??

Specifically, it's harder than 36 other states, and easier than 9.

 

[bkmonkey]

apparently somebody still has some practice to do with stats...

 

[liverotcod]

apparently somebody still has some practice to do with stats...

It sure isn't my strong suit... I was going to take stats this summer, but blew it off so I could spend more time on SDN. Can you enlighten us?

 

[bkmonkey]

i'm just pointing out the fact that first you said that california residents have it the 10th best, and then said they have the 10th worst...stats isn't really my strong suit either. i'm not looking forward to seeing it again

 

[liverotcod]

i'm just pointing out the fact that first you said that california residents have it the 10th best, and then said they have the 10th worst...stats isn't really my strong suit either. i'm not looking forward to seeing it again

I said, "California applicants have a poorer shot in-state than anyone else? Nope. California is tenth among states that have med schools," by which I meant tenth from the worst. There are 9 states that have med schools that have worse in-state matriculation rates than California. Sorry for any confusion.

 

[willthatsall]

i'm just pointing out the fact that first you said that california residents have it the 10th best, and then said they have the 10th worst...stats isn't really my strong suit either. i'm not looking forward to seeing it again

No, I don't think he made a mistake there. The only thing that can be misleading is that he doesn't take qualifications into account. If the average Californian applicant has a 3.8 and a 32 MCAT and the average GA applicant has a 3.4 and a 28 MCAT and the numbers for the two states are equal, then obviously it is harder for Californians even though this chart wouldn't show that. Now, I'm not saying that's the case because I don't know of average stats for any states, just giving an example.

 

[Gleevec]

Why am I not surprised that Californians fabricated their difficulty in med school admissions? Just like Im not surprised by a lot of other exaggerations Californians propagate in order to attempt to justify the ridiculous living expenses incurred by living there.

 

[liverotcod]

Why am I not surprised that Californians fabricated their difficulty in med school admissions? Just like Im not surprised by a lot of other exaggerations Californians propagate in order to attempt to justify the ridiculous living expenses incurred by living there.

Like, their state is sliding off into the Pacific?

It's a "grass is always greener" thing. Personally, I think 36-year-old non-traditional applicants from Virginia have it absolutely the hardest... but that's just me.

 

[Jalby]

Why am I not surprised that Californians fabricated their difficulty in med school admissions? Just like Im not surprised by a lot of other exaggerations Californians propagate in order to attempt to justify the ridiculous living expenses incurred by living there.

Do I sense a little green eyed monster there??? First off, it doesn't seem to be that there is a fabrication. 20% of californians get to stay in state, and to achieve that extremely low number they have to get a 30+ MCAT and 3.65 + GPA. Are you saying it's a fabrication to say it is harder for Californians??? Sre doesn't look that way. What's the MCAT and GPA of UTMB, BTW??? 3.4 and 27?? I'm sure it's a whole lot harder for Texans, though.

As for the other exaduartaions, like what exatly??? Granted, we used to be the smoggiest place in the nation, but now that's Houston. Oh, wait, didn't they also win the fattest city in the nation (probably world) recently??? California doesn't have all the claims to fame.

 

[bkmonkey]

Do I sense a little green eyed monster there??? First off, it doesn't seem to be that there is a fabrication. 20% of californians get to stay in state, and to achieve that extremely low number they have to get a 30+ MCAT and 3.65 + GPA. Are you saying it's a fabrication to say it is harder for Californians??? Sre doesn't look that way. What's the MCAT and GPA of UTMB, BTW??? 3.4 and 27?? I'm sure it's a whole lot harder for Texans, though.

As for the other exaduartaions, like what exatly??? Granted, we used to be the smoggiest place in the nation, but now that's Houston. Oh, wait, didn't they also win the fattest city in the nation (probably world) recently??? California doesn't have all the claims to fame.

that sounds about right!!!

 

[SpiderBill]

I always hear Californians exaduarting about how they're the best spellers.

 

[thewzdoc]

Like, their state is sliding off into the Pacific?

The rest of you are washing into the Gulf of Mexico or Atlantic or your house is sucked from around you in the numerous tornadoes that plague the central states?.let?s also not forget the freezing or the occasional hurricane?.I?ll take a 5.0 every few years for that tradeoff thank you?..

 

[thewzdoc]

I always hear Californians exaduarting about how they're the best spellers.

We just know how to use spell check better?. 👍

 

[Jalby]

We just know how to use spell check better?. 👍

We have better things to do with our time. I'm going to the beach.

 

[liverotcod]

Do I sense a little green eyed monster there??? First off, it doesn't seem to be that there is a fabrication. 20% of californians get to stay in state, and to achieve that extremely low number they have to get a 30+ MCAT and 3.65 + GPA. Are you saying it's a fabrication to say it is harder for Californians??? Sre doesn't look that way. What's the MCAT and GPA of UTMB, BTW??? 3.4 and 27?? I'm sure it's a whole lot harder for Texans, though.

According to more AAMC data, the average MCAT of a California applicant in 2003 was 28.4, while the average GPA was 3.42. This compares to a national average of 27.1 MCAT and 3.47 GPA. So, a little higher on MCAT and about the same for GPA.

After cleaning and sorting the data from the above page (and discarding the Canadians - no offense, eh?) I get WA, UT and NH with the highest MCATs (aha! a correct usage of "MCATs"!), and ND, ID, IA for the highest GPAs of matriculants. With the editing, the national average of MCAT drops to 26.8 and average GPA rises to 3.49. I did not weight for number of applicants.

Texan applicants, by the way, had a 27.4 and a 3.51, edging out Californians in GPA while giving up a point in MCAT.

 

[MoosePilot]

The rest of you are washing into the Gulf of Mexico or Atlantic or your house is sucked from around you in the numerous tornadoes that plague the central states?.let?s also not forget the freezing or the occasional hurricane?.I?ll take a 5.0 every few years for that tradeoff thank you?..

Yeah, but you're also paying about 4 times as much for the trade, too 🙂

 

[Jalby]

According to more AAMC data, the average MCAT of a California applicant in 2003 was 28.4, while the average GPA was 3.42. This compares to a national average of 27.1 MCAT and 3.47 GPA. So, a little higher on MCAT and about the same for GPA.

After cleaning and sorting the data from the above page (and discarding the Canadians - no offense, eh?) I get WA, UT and NH with the highest MCATs (aha! a correct usage of "MCATs"!), and ND, ID, IA for the highest GPAs of matriculants. With the editing, the national average of MCAT drops to 26.8 and average GPA rises to 3.49. I did not weight for number of applicants.

Texan applicants, by the way, had a 27.4 and a 3.51, edging out Californians in GPA while giving up a point in MCAT.

That 1.3 higher MCAT is HUGE. With those great stats and Cali only getting an average number of applicants getting in, that more than shows how hard it is for Californians. Heck, if USC had a one point jump in MCAT, it would be in the top 20 in medical schools.

You know, there are some people who do research wanting to find a certain result. For some funny reason, they always seem to find the answer they were looking for.

 

[liverotcod]

That 1.3 higher MCAT is HUGE. With those great stats and Cali only getting an average number of applicants getting in, that more than shows how hard it is for Californians. Heck, if USC had a one point jump in MCAT, it would be in the top 20 in medical schools.

You know, there are some people who do research wanting to find a certain result. For some funny reason, they always seem to find the answer they were looking for.

Actually, I wasn't looking for a particular answer (if I'm the "someone" you are *so* slyly referring to). I was curious, and actually thought it likely true that Calis had it tough. But my hypothesis, based on the data, still appears wrong to me.

The point of MCAT is, or course, significant. Concerning USC, do you mean that it would be in the top 20 medical schools for applicant GPA? Where is it now for that scale? Do you think that the claim would be valid if we were discussing USC's matriculated students rather than applicants? I just don't know.

The SD for the total MCAT column is 1.62. Be glad you're not from Utah, with 28.8 and 3.55 averages.

 

[liverotcod]

BTW, Jalby, I like your sig. We can agree on those numbers at least.

 

[thewzdoc]

Yeah, but you're also paying about 4 times as much for the trade, too 🙂

I gladly pay the sunshine tax since my house is worth 3 times what I paid for it 2 years ago. 👍

 

[thewzdoc]

We have better things to do with our time. I'm going to the beach.

That's true 👍

 

[ms2209]

Personally, I don't understand the CA thing either. Maryland only has two medical schools (excluding the Health Services Military one), Johns Hopkins (which is almost impossible to get into) and University of Maryland, which is in the top 40 or so (correct me if I'm wrong) and has an average GPA of 3.6 and MCAT of 30. I think this is tougher (if you want to stay in-state) than CA, at least CA has a lot of schools...but that's just my two cents.

 

[Jalby]

BTW, Jalby, I like your sig. We can agree on those numbers at least.

Alright. I like you again.

 

[exmike]

Personally, I don't understand the CA thing either. Maryland only has two medical schools (excluding the Health Services Military one), Johns Hopkins (which is almost impossible to get into) and University of Maryland, which is in the top 40 or so (correct me if I'm wrong) and has an average GPA of 3.6 and MCAT of 30. I think this is tougher (if you want to stay in-state) than CA, at least CA has a lot of schools...but that's just my two cents.

U maryland's average MCAT and GPA is below all of the UC's I believe. That should say something. Its not about absolute numbers, its relative. and in relative terms California has "fewer" med schools.

 

[liverotcod]

U maryland's average MCAT and GPA is below all of the UC's I believe. That should say something. Its not about absolute numbers, its relative. and in relative terms California has "fewer" med schools.

True, exmike, but MD is one of the states that has fewer in-state matriculants than CA. 16.2% of applicants. But MD applicants do well overall, with 50.1% accepted compared to CA's 48.2. MD does have a smaller applicant pool.

 

[thewzdoc]

Alright. I like you again.

Dam#.... you?ve become soft over the years...

 

[jlee9531]

i'm just fortunate to have convinced one CA school im not rejection material.

 

[Jalby]

Dam#.... you?ve become soft over the years...

Come november third, I won't like him again.

 

[thewzdoc]

Come november third, I won't like him again.

.....I might not like anyone at this point....

 

[Jalby]

.....I might not like anyone at this point....

Hate Bush and Kerry?? There seem to be a lot of you out there.

 

[thewzdoc]

Hate Bush and Kerry?? There seem to be a lot of you out there.

Hate is a strong word but I do hate what is happening. It sounds bad but I don?t think Iraq is worth the death of any of our soldiers. I understand that we are there to help and stop some form of future attack. I also see what $400 billion dollars going to a country that doesn?t give a **** if any of us live or die. $400 billion damn dollars?..we could got back to the Moon, Mars, and develop an alternate energy source for that kind of money?..F@CK!!!!

Kerry just ?rubs me? the wrong way. After watching his testimony to congress and his flip-flop on current issues I just cannot trust him. They may both be bad but Bush is the ?enemy? I know?Kerry is a rouge.

I'm sick that my party has grown the friggen government so huge too.....dam#....what happened to smaller government!?

 

[thewzdoc]

....must breath....calm down......3 day weekend is almost here....

Plus the friggen maggots that run this joint couldn't find their ass with both hands.......

We need parts for equipment but we are busy getting new plaques for the offices.....WTF!!!!!

....must breath....calm down......3 day weekend is almost here....

 

[liverotcod]

....must breath....calm down......3 day weekend is almost here....

Plus the friggen maggots that run this joint couldn't find their ass with both hands.......

We need parts for equipment but we are busy getting new plaques for the offices.....WTF!!!!!

....must breath....calm down......3 day weekend is almost here....

Have a great weekend! Sounds like you've earned it.

 

[mikeyboy]

The higher MCAT score just means that we have it easier, since clearly our schools take care of us and give us more time off to study for the boar-, er, MCAT.

 

[thewzdoc]

Have a great weekend! Sounds like you've earned it.

why....why do I care so much......**sobs**.....It's a 2 beer minimum tonight.....if I can stay awake long enough to finish the first one.....

 

[liverotcod]

$400 billion damn dollars?..we could got back to the Moon, Mars, and develop an alternate energy source for that kind of money?..F@CK!!!! ...

Or, more relevant to this forum, we could easily have delivered adequate health care to all Americans. Or just give it all to me; I promise not to spend it all in one place, or at least not in Iraq.

 

[Jalby]

Hate is a strong word but I do hate what is happening. It sounds bad but I don?t think Iraq is worth the death of any of our soldiers. I understand that we are there to help and stop some form of future attack. I also see what $400 billion dollars going to a country that doesn?t give a **** if any of us live or die. $400 billion damn dollars?..we could got back to the Moon, Mars, and develop an alternate energy source for that kind of money?..F@CK!!!!

Kerry just ?rubs me? the wrong way. After watching his testimony to congress and his flip-flop on current issues I just cannot trust him. They may both be bad but Bush is the ?enemy? I know?Kerry is a rouge.

I'm sick that my party has grown the friggen government so huge too.....dam#....what happened to smaller government!?

My kind of Rupublican. A guy who sees the fact. At least eh democrats would have wasted the money on something that could have done some good.

 

[thewzdoc]

Or, more relevant to this forum, we could easily have delivered adequate health care to all Americans. Or just give it all to me; I promise not to spend it all in one place, or at least not in Iraq.

Everyone says "Cure for AIDS...cancer...."....whateva....I love Space research too and a lot of medical advances have come from the space programs.

 

[pekq]

I'd like to point out the city of New York have almost as many med schools as the state of California. Ain't that cool?