Calling in sick

[Coastie]

---

Members do not see this ad.

How lame is this?

If you're sick, you won't be on top of your game, and patient care will suffer.

Calling in sick is good for the patients. Everyone has worked sick, but if you are attached to an IV (as some have said earlier) or have recently anaphylaxed, you should probably be suspended for a week from residency for pulling such an idiotic, patient-threatening move.

Hey, you're preaching to the choir! Last time I was really sick (in March, on my CT Surg month), I just carried a bag of Advil, Tylenol and a Z-Pak around with me. Alternated between Advil and Tylenol to keep my fevers down throughout the day (probably around Q3H), even asking the circulator to help me during my long cases.

But apparently we gotta be more PC these days.

 

[BabyPsychDoc]

How lame is this?

If you're sick, you won't be on top of your game, and patient care will suffer.

Calling in sick is good for the patients. Everyone has worked sick, but if you are attached to an IV (as some have said earlier) or have recently anaphylaxed, you should probably be suspended for a week from residency for pulling such an idiotic, patient-threatening move.

Agree. Unfortunately, there is this Macho culture that prevails in medicine, evidenced by doctors lounge discussion as well as this forum, when docs brag about them working through (sometimes severe) illness. Your colleagues, who would have to pick up your shifts were you to call in sick, also contribute to your reluctance to admit being sick.

 

[humuhumu]

How lame is this?

If you're sick, you won't be on top of your game, and patient care will suffer.

Calling in sick is good for the patients. Everyone has worked sick, but if you are attached to an IV (as some have said earlier) or have recently anaphylaxed, you should probably be suspended for a week from residency for pulling such an idiotic, patient-threatening move.

I'm glad somebody feels this way. Working with a head cold is one thing, but there have to be limits....

 

[Castro Viejo]

How lame is this?

If you're sick, you won't be on top of your game, and patient care will suffer.

Calling in sick is good for the patients. Everyone has worked sick, but if you are attached to an IV (as some have said earlier) or have recently anaphylaxed, you should probably be suspended for a week from residency for pulling such an idiotic, patient-threatening move.

When one person fails to show up for work one day because "he's sick," then the rest of the team has to pick up for his absence. And depending on what you do for a living, that may be easy enough or next to impossible.

In surgery it's pretty tough to deal with even one man down, and that's why we grow up with the attitude that if you're sick, you'd better be sick enough to be in the ED. It discourages people from calling out sick just because "I don't feel right" or if someone has the "case of the Mondays." None of us wants the rest of the team to suffer because we didn't show up for work, so the result is we'll come in almost regardless of how lousy we may be feeling.

Perhaps some of us take it to an extreme, but it's a part of the attitude of surgeons that I admire and one that you, as a patient, would certainly demand.

 

[BabyPsychDoc]

Perhaps some of us take it to an extreme, but it's a part of the attitude of surgeons that I admire and one that you, as a patient, would certainly demand.

Ahemm... NO! I want my surgeon to be in top notch condition when I go under his knife; I do not want him/her to think, "when the hell will I be able to get home, take my Advil and Benadryl and get under covers"!

 

[Castro Viejo]

Ahemm... NO! I want my surgeon to be in top notch condition when I go under his knife; I do not want him/her to think, "when the hell will I be able to get home, take my Advil and Benadryl and get under covers"!

Perhaps we should agree to disagree. 🙂

 

[Blade28]

Agree. Unfortunately, there is this Macho culture that prevails in medicine, evidenced by doctors lounge discussion as well as this forum, when docs brag about them working through (sometimes severe) illness. Your colleagues, who would have to pick up your shifts were you to call in sick, also contribute to your reluctance to admit being sick.

Very true.

 

[dynx]

Ahemm... NO! I want my surgeon to be in top notch condition when I go under his knife; I do not want him/her to think, "when the hell will I be able to get home, take my Advil and Benadryl and get under covers"!

The knife part isn't really the problem. The problem is making clinical decisions about someone you don't really know about. This is basically just like the "80 hour work week" argument.

Side one: Residents/attendings who are better rested/healthier make better decisions.

side two: Residents/attendings who never leave the ****ing hospital and know everything about thier patients make better decisions.

If you're in surgery you know that side one loses in 90% of the cases. Obtaining the correct outcome in most situations depends more upon having all the information available to you when you are choosing a route of action than being "sharp". When you're on call Q2 you KNOW your service. Its amazing, its effortless, you could manage it sleep walking. When you miss one weekend you come back and have to fill in holes, you ussually spend a whole day trying to really catch up (anybody disagree?). Now imagine those people rotating in to fill in for you as a single person perpetually trying to catch up. = bad decisions.


And you screw your coworkers.

 

[Castro Viejo]

Wasn't there a recent article somewhere (JAMA? NEJM?) about the 80 hour work rules and how they've failed to decrease the number of errors, bad judgements, or even patient mortality? And that now the issue seems to be not working too much, but poor sign outs from "change of shifts." This is what happens when you try your damndest to stay away from the hospital.

 

[Blade28]

Yes.

I'll have to find that article.

 

[undecided3yr]

This goes a little more on the OP:
Im in a unit month with overnight Q4 with 2 other residents and admitting daily whenever out team falls below cap(pretty much every day).

I just had a Co-Resident call in sick Saturday, no big deal the other resident and I on the service pick up his patients and admit for the day.

Sunday comes and he's back and fine, no cough, sniffles, etc which smells of hangover/drunk "sick" call. It still doesnt bother me that much.

But Monday is a day off scheduled for him and he takes it, leaving us to do his work and admit new pts all day again. This pisses me off.

Is it wrong to feel resentful? I mean this guy just calls in sick, works a day and then takes another day off, passing his work off to the rest of the team again. I just feel that if you take a sick day and come back right away you suck it up and skip your next vacation day if its 1 day after you're back. We didnt get someone pulled from clinic to take his place. Its just rude to take all that time off and let your co-residents pick up the slack.

I wouldnt care if we were on a b.s. consult month or clinics, but in a ICU setting, Im getting burned out doing his work.

 

[medicinesux]

calling in sick? Who do you think you work for? A local school district. Yeah....like some substitute is going to come in and see your patients for you.

 

[drtx]

But Monday is a day off scheduled for him and he takes it, leaving us to do his work and admit new pts all day again. This pisses me off.

That is just pathetic and weak...you should call him out on it.

 

[MR1]

Wasn't there a recent article somewhere (JAMA? NEJM?) about the 80 hour work rules and how they've failed to decrease the number of errors, bad judgements, or even patient mortality? And that now the issue seems to be not working too much, but poor sign outs from "change of shifts." This is what happens when you try your damndest to stay away from the hospital.

There was some study pre and post work hour restriction that showed the amount of sleep residents get didn't change at all after the 80 hr week started. Probably because we feel like we don't need more sleep or just want to use that extra time to do other things. I think the study figured that along with extra hand offs caused there to be no fewer errors or mistakes.

Also I agree that when you do have a day off on a busier service you feel a little lost the next day. Especially when your day off is you post-post call day and you gone for 1.5 days, feels like I took a vacation.

 

[elwademd]

Wasn't there a recent article somewhere (JAMA? NEJM?) about the 80 hour work rules and how they've failed to decrease the number of errors, bad judgements, or even patient mortality? And that now the issue seems to be not working too much, but poor sign outs from "change of shifts." This is what happens when you try your damndest to stay away from the hospital.

There was some study pre and post work hour restriction that showed the amount of sleep residents get didn't change at all after the 80 hr week started. Probably because we feel like we don't need more sleep or just want to use that extra time to do other things. I think the study figured that along with extra hand offs caused there to be no fewer errors or mistakes.

Also I agree that when you do have a day off on a busier service you feel a little lost the next day. Especially when your day off is you post-post call day and you gone for 1.5 days, feels like I took a vacation.

the premise seems to presuppose that the physician is directly responsible for everything that happens under his/her watch...

and if there were no fewer errors, does that mean that we should go back to the way it was, or does it simply mean that we can produce the same amount of errors in a shorter amount of time, or does it mean that you will reach a critical point (time) at which you will no longer commit errors?

when is the time that it's ok to leave the hospital? unless you plan on being on call/available/around 24/7, 365, there is a point at which you need to leave. the attendings seem to have it figured out as they whoop and holler about how it was when they were residents being on call q day and admitting 30 patients, but i sure don't seem them around at 2 am now, and they seem well rested in the morning for rounds, and they bitch and complain about half of the admits we get from the er...

 

[Coastie]

Ahemm... NO! I want my surgeon to be in top notch condition when I go under his knife; I do not want him/her to think, "when the hell will I be able to get home, take my Advil and Benadryl and get under covers"!

Exactly.

This mentality of "I must be in the ED to call in sick" is pathetic and reeks of an inferiority complex: Nobody is going to think you are less of a doctor because you call in sick. Listen, patients depend on you for their lives: Even seemingly small issues can turn into life or death issues, as any resident knows. With that said, don't call in sick because your nose is running, but don't tough it out when you are "connected to an IV" or "anaphylaxed". That's irresponsible, dangerous, and should be shunned amongst the medical profession.

 

[Coastie]

When one person fails to show up for work one day because "he's sick," then the rest of the team has to pick up for his absence. And depending on what you do for a living, that may be easy enough or next to impossible.

In surgery it's pretty tough to deal with even one man down, and that's why we grow up with the attitude that if you're sick, you'd better be sick enough to be in the ED. It discourages people from calling out sick just because "I don't feel right" or if someone has the "case of the Mondays." None of us wants the rest of the team to suffer because we didn't show up for work, so the result is we'll come in almost regardless of how lousy we may be feeling.

Perhaps some of us take it to an extreme, but it's a part of the attitude of surgeons that I admire and one that you, as a patient, would certainly demand.

Then take extra residents; Or have the attendings pick up the slack; Or hire more staff. I'm all about being tough: We feel sick a lot during residency, after all, we are coughed, vomiting, sneezed, urinated, and pooped on daily. However, if the residency program is broken by someone calling in sick, then the problem is the residency program, not the person calling in sick.

 

[carrigallen]

The problem is that a lot of these "sick" calls are (as someone mentioned above) just due to hangovers.

Many residents tend not to drink regularly enough or have enough tolerance to handle going out (especially Asian residents who lack the enzyme). So you get these calls on Sunday morning for a "mysterious GI illness" that goes away in 6 hrs. 🙄 and a resident gets pulled for that.

There is really no excuse not to show up for your duties unless you have a fever or are in the ED. Tardiness, winter blahs, and hangovers are 100% preventable.

 

[Castro Viejo]

Then take extra residents; Or have the attendings pick up the slack; Or hire more staff. I'm all about being tough: We feel sick a lot during residency, after all, we are coughed, vomiting, sneezed, urinated, and pooped on daily. However, if the residency program is broken by someone calling in sick, then the problem is the residency program, not the person calling in sick.

I hope you understand that the ACGME doesn't approve MORE positions because the workload increases. Extra residents come when there's enough work to go around and the program meets certain educational goals. So it's not as if one program can say, "Hmmm... We need an extra one them residents. Betty, run an ad in the local newspaper calling for one!"

And having the attendings pick up the slack is not an option. I, for one, as a surgical resident take particular pride in being able to run a service where my attending need not think about if he so chooses. How's it gonna be in practice when you're sick? Call on your partners all the time? Sure. Try that a bunch of times and see who won't be getting an invitation to the annual Holiday Party. But what if you were the only game in town? Who's gonna see your patients because you feel "don't feel right?"

 

[Coastie]

I hope you understand that the ACGME doesn't approve MORE positions because the workload increases. Extra residents come when there's enough work to go around and the program meets certain educational goals. So it's not as if one program can say, "Hmmm... We need an extra one them residents. Betty, run an ad in the local newspaper calling for one!"

And having the attendings pick up the slack is not an option. I, for one, as a surgical resident take particular pride in being able to run a service where my attending need not think about if he so chooses. How's it gonna be in practice when you're sick? Call on your partners all the time? Sure. Try that a bunch of times and see who won't be getting an invitation to the annual Holiday Party. But what if you were the only game in town? Who's gonna see your patients because you feel "don't feel right?"

We know how well many programs keep with ACGME requirements.

Sure, the attendings should pick up the slack if needs be if someone calls in legitimately sick. Who is going to see your patients if you're solo in a town in pp and you get hit by a car? We can play those sorts of games all day. Point is, if you're really sick, don't go see patients.

 

[Castro Viejo]

We know how well many programs keep with ACGME requirements.

Sure, the attendings should pick up the slack if needs be if someone calls in legitimately sick. Who is going to see your patients if you're solo in a town in pp and you get hit by a car? We can play those sorts of games all day. Point is, if you're really sick, don't go see patients.

Everyone definition of "sick" and "really sick" seems to be different.

When I use "really sick" I mean SICU kind of stuff. When my intern calls me up and says, "Hey Castro, I'm 'sick' today. I'm not going to be able to come in." My response to that would be, "I'll see you downstairs in the ED."

"Sick" is if you require active medical attention.

But as I've said, you could be feeling "under the weather," hungover, or "just having a case of the Mondays," and decide that you can't come to work. That's irresponsible and abusing your colleagues.

Let's just agree to disagree. 🙂

 

[exPCM]

Then take extra residents; Or have the attendings pick up the slack; Or hire more staff. I'm all about being tough: We feel sick a lot during residency, after all, we are coughed, vomiting, sneezed, urinated, and pooped on daily. However, if the residency program is broken by someone calling in sick, then the problem is the residency program, not the person calling in sick.

The reason for the minimal staffing is not the residents' fault. The hospital could hire nurse practitioners/PAs to help increase manning but the NPs and PAs do not come with Medicare funding for their salaries like residents do. Thus this would cost more for the hospital. However, I am sure most of the administrative staff who make these personnel decisions have no qualms about calling in sick and they are making more money than the residents as well. I also know that most hospital CEOs are very well compensated and their mission should include providing more than barebones staffing such that everything does not crumble when one resident is sick.

 

[Blade28]

But as I've said, you could be feeling "under the weather," hungover, or "just having a case of the Mondays," and decide that you can't come to work. That's irresponsible and abusing your colleagues.

I completely agree.

 

[RTrain]

Nobody is going to think you are less of a doctor because you call in sick.

Perhaps not. But we may think less of you as a colleague.

 

[Castro Viejo]

This mentality of "I must be in the ED to call in sick" is pathetic and reeks of an inferiority complex: Nobody is going to think you are less of a doctor because you call in sick. Listen, patients depend on you for their lives: Even seemingly small issues can turn into life or death issues, as any resident knows. With that said, don't call in sick because your nose is running, but don't tough it out when you are "connected to an IV" or "anaphylaxed". That's irresponsible, dangerous, and should be shunned amongst the medical profession.

No, that's dedication and that should be held as a standard to call in sick.

Cultures differ across the specialties. You know that as well as I know that. We surgeons have a more top-down, military-type hierarchy that emphasizes the team functioning together and being very dependent on one another to get the massive amount of work done. It has worked for us since the days of Halsted and we're not about to change the culture for a bunch of belly-achers. So in our world doing everything you can to ensure that your team isn't handicapped because you're "feeling lousy" is a priority. It helps with surgical patient care.

Other specialties (I won't name names) think they have the team thing down, but it's a more chaotic and not as refined. There's no one at the helm quite frankly. Each person does his own thing. And then there's sign out rounds where I, the resident who's going home, tries to tell you as little as possible about each of my patients and then give you a laundry list of To-Do's for the night but not letting you in on why they need to be done. Or in the name of "teamwork" I'll withhold as many of the bullcrap To-Do's as possible so that you can sleep, and invariably the one you scratch off your list is going to be the one that would've let General Surgery know the patient with abdominal pain and distention actually has free air and fecal peritonitis. So in this world teams aren't all that important. The night float intern will just have to fend for himself when and if some issue develops with your patient. Is this any safer? No. There is now a developing body of literature being centered around this very problem.

So I can understand that you don't understand, but don't call it "pathetic" or that it "reeks of an inferiority complex" because of that. No one said you had to be a surgeon. There are plenty of other medical specialties you can choose to do, it's just that none of them are going to be as glorious as surgery.

 

[TRAMD]

My pager is bigger than your pager.

 

[Faebinder]

No, that's dedication and that should be held as a standard to call in sick.

Cultures differ across the specialties. You know that as well as I know that. We surgeons have a more top-down, military-type hierarchy that emphasizes the team functioning together and being very dependent on one another to get the massive amount of work done. It has worked for us since the days of Halsted and we're not about to change the culture for a bunch of belly-achers. So in our world doing everything you can to ensure that your team isn't handicapped because you're "feeling lousy" is a priority. It helps with surgical patient care.

Other specialties (I won't name names) think they have the team thing down, but it's a more chaotic and not as refined. There's no one at the helm quite frankly. Each person does his own thing. And then there's sign out rounds where I, the resident who's going home, tries to tell you as little as possible about each of my patients and then give you a laundry list of To-Do's for the night but not letting you in on why they need to be done. Or in the name of "teamwork" I'll withhold as many of the bullcrap To-Do's as possible so that you can sleep, and invariably the one you scratch off your list is going to be the one that would've let General Surgery know the patient with abdominal pain and distention actually has free air and fecal peritonitis. So in this world teams aren't all that important. The night float intern will just have to fend for himself when and if some issue develops with your patient. Is this any safer? No. There is now a developing body of literature being centered around this very problem.

So I can understand that you don't understand, but don't call it "pathetic" or that it "reeks of an inferiority complex" because of that. No one said you had to be a surgeon. There are plenty of other medical specialties you can choose to do, it's just that none of them are going to be as glorious as surgery.

Wow Castro... Even though I agree with a lot of what you said, I highly recommend some psychotherapy for that overdose of narcissism.

Oh wait I forgot... surgeons are immune to Axis II disorders.

Are you going to grow up to be that attending that ended up tossing a bloody towel in the face of a med student and then losing their license?

 

[Castro Viejo]

Wow Castro... Even though I agree with a lot of what you said, I highly recommend some psychotherapy for that overdose of narcissism.

Oh wait I forgot... surgeons are immune to Axis II disorders.

Are you going to grow up to be that attending that ended up tossing a bloody towel in the face of a med student and then losing their license?

Nope. I have a wonderful relationship with the staff in every part of the hospital, including the ancillary peeps and even the ED residents (most of them), so I don't think my "narcissism" is in danger of running out of control to the point where I'll "lose my license."

But I'm not going to let someone, especially someone who's never stepped foot in the operating room as a surgeon, tell me that my attitudes, beliefs, and work ethic are "pathetic" and that they reek of an "inferiority complex" simply because that person (Coastie) doesn't agree with them.

 

[Castro Viejo]

My pager is bigger than your pager.

Tell yourself that the next time you see a sentinel bleed from your patient's trach stoma (because all PMR patients are invariably gomes with trachs) and you call that "STAT" General Surgery consult once the patient's inominate artery fistula explodes, and maybe you won't crap your pants as much THIS time.

 

[Tired]

The reason for the minimal staffing is not the residents' fault. The hospital could hire nurse practitioners/PAs to help increase manning but the NPs and PAs do not come with Medicare funding for their salaries like residents do. Thus this would cost more for the hospital.

I just came off a away surgical rotation where there were 2 PAs and an NP, ostensibly there to "help fun the floor". You know how it actually works?

- I didn't do a single bedside procedure, because the NP/PA could bill for it

- I got pushed out of minor OR procedures because it was "faster" to have the NP/PA first assist, since they'd done it before

- I didn't get to run the traumas during the day, because they had a specifically designated NP to take care of "little things" like that

I see now that NPs and PAs are ruinous to resident education in an inpatient setting. If my home program used them, I never would have come here.

 

[Coastie]

Dude, seeing patients while on an IV or anaphylaxed is dedication?



I love the tone of condescension, which still reeks of an inferiority complex, and it remains frankly pathetic that you attempt to defend an unattainable ideal of providing optimal, or even safe, patient care while "on an IV" or "anaphylaxed".

Oh, P.S.: Good luck defending against the ancillary staff and fellow docs who testify that you were "on rounds with an IV" the day the patient died of a complication. You might as well hold a bake sale to pay off the bills when that happens..

No, that's dedication and that should be held as a standard to call in sick.

Cultures differ across the specialties. You know that as well as I know that. We surgeons have a more top-down, military-type hierarchy that emphasizes the team functioning together and being very dependent on one another to get the massive amount of work done. It has worked for us since the days of Halsted and we're not about to change the culture for a bunch of belly-achers. So in our world doing everything you can to ensure that your team isn't handicapped because you're "feeling lousy" is a priority. It helps with surgical patient care.

Other specialties (I won't name names) think they have the team thing down, but it's a more chaotic and not as refined. There's no one at the helm quite frankly. Each person does his own thing. And then there's sign out rounds where I, the resident who's going home, tries to tell you as little as possible about each of my patients and then give you a laundry list of To-Do's for the night but not letting you in on why they need to be done. Or in the name of "teamwork" I'll withhold as many of the bullcrap To-Do's as possible so that you can sleep, and invariably the one you scratch off your list is going to be the one that would've let General Surgery know the patient with abdominal pain and distention actually has free air and fecal peritonitis. So in this world teams aren't all that important. The night float intern will just have to fend for himself when and if some issue develops with your patient. Is this any safer? No. There is now a developing body of literature being centered around this very problem.

So I can understand that you don't understand, but don't call it "pathetic" or that it "reeks of an inferiority complex" because of that. No one said you had to be a surgeon. There are plenty of other medical specialties you can choose to do, it's just that none of them are going to be as glorious as surgery.

 

[DrDawg]

The reason for the minimal staffing is not the residents' fault. The hospital could hire nurse practitioners/PAs to help increase manning but the NPs and PAs do not come with Medicare funding for their salaries like residents do. Thus this would cost more for the hospital. However, I am sure most of the administrative staff who make these personnel decisions have no qualms about calling in sick and they are making more money than the residents as well. I also know that most hospital CEOs are very well compensated and their mission should include providing more than barebones staffing such that everything does not crumble when one resident is sick.

Many reports show that it takes 2 to 4 PA's to do the work of a single resident. Since the average PA in the US makes approx $70k. Thats a huge cost for the hospital despite the fact that they can bill for services. Further, although many younger PA's/NP don't mind call, as they gain experience most move on to jobs that don't require call. Many hospitals are willing to compensate programs (richly) to ensure they have resident coverage.

 

[Doowai]

I wonder how I will be as a resident. I have not missed a day of work.... I don't think ever. Last year I was an extra 3 nights in a row in a movie (KIDS IN AMERICA) that filmed 6 PM to 6 AM, and still worked all day the next day. I have worked with food poisoning, broken bones...I can't think of missing a day in the last 20 years.

I never missed one day of rotation as a medical student - although on preceptor sent me home from a FP rotation because they felt I was too sick - I was coughing up a lung, and they felt I should go home. But they were a bit of a hypochondriac. I once got a free pen from them that I liked - I walked in their office, told them I liked the pen and then licked it. They looked disgusted and said I could have it.

I am scheduled for shoulder surgery March 21 (sew up torn supraspinatus, grind down a couple of spurs, perhaps put a stitch or two in a torn labrum etc) - I may skip a day of work that Monday. THe doctor told me he wants me to take narcotics for a week or so, and I am not sure I should be at work on narcotics. I have never really had a surgery before, and am hoping I won't need narcotics - but we will see.

I hope I do not ever miss in residency. I would be embarrassed. My dad was a pilot in WWII - was a prisoner of war. They made movies of rap he went through, and some of the special forces training is designed to prepare people for torture he endured. The guy never missed work, never was an alcoholic, never used all the veterans benefits he could have had simply because he was too proud. A few years ago there was a combat soldier who got a discharge for sinus allergies and although I treated him professionally inside I felt he was a sissy and deserved some sort of punishment for wimping out. He never saw one day of combat. I just feel a combat soldier who can't take bad sinus' does not deserve anything for being a soldier and certainly should not be allowed to ever say he was a combat soldier.

 

[Tired]

Oh, P.S.: Good luck defending against the ancillary staff and fellow docs who testify that you were "on rounds with an IV" the day the patient died of a complication. You might as well hold a bake sale to pay off the bills when that happens..

I love the way medical students make up things that will get you sued, then use that to justify any and all behaviors. It's almost as amusing as the way nurses think HIPAA means they don't ever have to do any work.

 

[Coastie]

I love the way medical students make up things that will get you sued, then use that to justify any and all behaviors. It's almost as amusing as the way nurses think HIPAA means they don't ever have to do any work.

?

 

[Tone2002]

Everyone definition of "sick" and "really sick" seems to be different.

When I use "really sick" I mean SICU kind of stuff. When my intern calls me up and says, "Hey Castro, I'm 'sick' today. I'm not going to be able to come in." My response to that would be, "I'll see you downstairs in the ED."

"Sick" is if you require active medical attention.

But as I've said, you could be feeling "under the weather," hungover, or "just having a case of the Mondays," and decide that you can't come to work. That's irresponsible and abusing your colleagues.

Let's just agree to disagree. 🙂

WOW... But I wish an upper level would say anything like that to me over the phone.

 

[TRAMD]

Tell yourself that the next time you see a sentinel bleed from your patient's trach stoma (because all PMR patients are invariably gomes with trachs) and you call that "STAT" General Surgery consult once the patient's inominate artery fistula explodes, and maybe you won't crap your pants as much THIS time.

I find you highly entertaining. Bravo!

 

[Castro Viejo]

I find you highly entertaining. Bravo!

👍

 

[Tired]

?

You turned an event that is not exactly unheard-of (having an IV in you on rounds) into something you can get sued for. That's just dumb.

 

[ANCAdoc]

You turned an event that is not exactly unheard-of (having an IV in you on rounds) into something you can get sued for. That's just dumb.

Go talk to someone in your hospitals risk management dept (or similar dept) and ask them if a sick resident (needing IV hydration) increases their liability or risk. It's not unimaginable for a resident to be named in a lawsuit and it gets out that he/she was sick. Regardless of whether or not that contributed to the error, it would be bad PR and makes winning that case that much harder if it went to court.

 

[Coastie]

You turned an event that is not exactly unheard-of (having an IV in you on rounds) into something you can get sued for. That's just dumb.

Except , I'm a resident, not a medical student, and if you're sick enough to have an IV in you, and you're rounding, you're obviously too sick, and shouldn't be there.

When you screw up, and it is known you were sick enough to have an IV in you, and the quality control/damage control/legal review comes, you're honestly telling me a jury wouldn't eat that up? They'd especially love the arrogant answers that are coming out of some of you guys. It'd be like Malice, without the medical skill to back up the talk.

 

[sunlioness]

When I was an internal medicine I was on call q3 in the CCU with my eyes crusted shut from a raging case of viral conjunctivitis. My only question of working in that state was making sure it was allowable because of the potential for tramsmitting it to patients. So I ran it by my chiefs and they told me to go to work.

Psychiatry is much more sane. I have called in sick when I have been sick and had my program and fellow residents react to this as normal people should. Though in my current program sick days do come out of vacation time, which is a pretty large incentive not to take them.

 

[dynx]

Though in my current program sick days do come out of vacation time, which is a pretty large incentive not to take them.

THIS LAST LINE. Pay attention to it. This is why most surgical residents have a problem with "sick days".

"I'm too sick to go to work today so Im gonna dump a **** load of work on you and make your day miserable...oh wait, it comes out of my vacation days? Well, maybe I feel well enough to go in"

Anybody who had any work ethic or consideration for thier fellow residents would never consider sick days coming out of thier vacation time as a prime motivator not to call in sick. If you do, then you're a lazy piece of *****...nothing personal of course.

*This opinion is expressed of a general goup of people deemed "lazy pieces of ****" on a conceptual basis as defined by DYNX and is not specifically directed at anyone of this or any other forum, state, country, world, race, religion, dietary preference, height, weight, specialty, age or gender. All apparent references to other members of the SDN are purely coincidental and should not be construed as a TOS violation. This post was in no way meant to harm the feelings of lazy people or pieces of ****. DYNX appologizes in advance for any sensitive soul that may have had his/her/it's feelings hurt by reading the above post.

 

[AwesomO]

I think the meaning of "sick" should be totally defined by the service you're covering:

On call: Sick = "near-dead". Vomiting, diarrhea, all but the WORST migrany things shouldn't count. Sniffles shouldn't count. Dehydration is out. Hung over is out. Dead tired - not. If you're surgical, fine. Actual, lipase-elevated pancreatitis...I guess. Delivering, fine. Otherwise, I say suck it up, wear a mask if you have to...go chill in the stall next to Panda if that's what it takes, but get your a** in there and do your work.

Outside rotations etc: Smoke 'em if you got 'em. If you have a program that grants you sick days that you can't bank (like mine), I say call in for hang nails if you want.

Yeah I've seen some pretty hardcore resident's take pretty good liberties with sick days when on outside rotations where their absence has no affect on the team.

 

[Tired]

When you screw up, and it is known you were sick enough to have an IV in you, and the quality control/damage control/legal review comes, you're honestly telling me a jury wouldn't eat that up? They'd especially love the arrogant answers that are coming out of some of you guys. It'd be like Malice, without the medical skill to back up the talk.

Hmm, all this time I thought you were a student. Must be something about the way you post . . .

So please, show me a single case where this issue came up, since apparently it's such a big deal.

 

[Coastie]

Hmm, all this time I thought you were a student. Must be something about the way you post . . .

So please, show me a single case where this issue came up, since apparently it's such a big deal.

If I have to explain why being sick enough to have an IV in you is a liability, especially when that IV is seen by family and nurses, after which the patient dies....Wow..

Well, good luck in practice!

 

[Sweet Tea]

When I was an internal medicine I was on call q3 in the CCU with my eyes crusted shut from a raging case of viral conjunctivitis. My only question of working in that state was making sure it was allowable because of the potential for tramsmitting it to patients. So I ran it by my chiefs and they told me to go to work.

Psychiatry is much more sane. I have called in sick when I have been sick and had my program and fellow residents react to this as normal people should. Though in my current program sick days do come out of vacation time, which is a pretty large incentive not to take them.

Hey! I know you! *waves hi*

 

[sunlioness]

Hi! *waves back*

 

[Tired]

If I have to explain why being sick enough to have an IV in you is a liability, especially when that IV is seen by family and nurses, after which the patient dies....Wow..

Well, good luck in practice!

Yes, please feel free to mask the idiocy of your statement by attempting to make it sound obvious.

Let us know if you make up any other situations that will get us sued. Your paranoia is amusing.

 

[TRAMD]

With the Superbowl coming up maybe we should discuss "calling in hungover."