Can a 250 compensate for poor class rank?

[bansheeDO]

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I know grades, LORs and school rep are also taken into consideration but what about for IM? Can you more or less "step one your way" into a great IM residency if your score is high enough and assuming you interview well. 🙂

 

[Idiopathic]

I think if you are isolating Step I score and class rank, then Step I score is weighted more heavily. i.e. you can perhaps overcome a substandard class rank with a very strong Step I score, but the reverse is more difficult.

 

[novacek88]

No, probably not. Even IM programs want the entire package these days. If anything, they might question your work ethic. Only a complete slacker would have a low class rank and a board score in the 250 range.

 

[Fantasy Sports]

A lot of places dont have class rank persay, but put you in a quartile. Might want to see if your school is one of those before worrying.

 

[baoflex]

I think that some of the above posters may be overemphasizing the importance of class rank and grades. The combination of grades, rank, and boards all goes into the process of determining whether one gets an interview or not. My understanding is that class rank will not play that much of a factor after your foot is in the door. With that said, a 250 on the boards will get you a lot of interviews (especially as it is the only real way to normalize against grade inflation, difference in curriculum, and the general quality differences of the students at different schools). I am not trying to indicate that a 250 will get you a the residency of your choice in IM, but it most likely will get you a good look at a high quality spot. There just aren't that many people around with those kind of numbers that are seeking IM residency spots (rads and derm may be a different story--but even then you will get a look).

 

[Big Lebowski]

What are has your feedback been, what kind of grades are you getting, any comments from your preceptors? Bottom line, your general performance is going to outweight USMLE scores. Regarding an applicant who applied to our program had scored 99 and 99 on Step 1 and 2, however had subaverage academic performance at a lower tier medical school. The way we interpreted that was laziness. We assumed that he was able to step up and do well on USMLE when he wanted to, but did not want to make an effort to do well on his clerkships and pre-clinicals.

 

[bigfrank]

Can you more or less "step one your way" into a great IM residency if your score is high enough and assuming you interview well. 🙂

Absolutely. Make honors in M-3 medicine and you're golden.

 

[daelroy]

I know this is a hypothetical and a very interesting thread but I just don't see it happening. To excel on Step I, I'm assuming you have to pretty good understanding of the material. I don't think this exam is just a bunch of rote memorization. I'm assuming the people who do well on Step I are also people who excel in their classes. I think it would be nearly impossible for someone who has slacked off during MS1 and MSII to suddenly score a 250 on Step I; I don't think it works that way. If I were you, I would try to be more realistic and maybe aim for a 230; I think that is a realistic goal.

 

[tom_jones]

What are has your feedback been, what kind of grades are you getting, any comments from your preceptors? Bottom line, your general performance is going to outweight USMLE scores. Regarding an applicant who applied to our program had scored 99 and 99 on Step 1 and 2, however had subaverage academic performance at a lower tier medical school. The way we interpreted that was laziness. We assumed that he was able to step up and do well on USMLE when he wanted to, but did not want to make an effort to do well on his clerkships and pre-clinicals.

Then your program got duped by a bunch of ass kissers. How do you think less intelligent people get higher clinical grades?

To the OP: Unfortunately this guy has a valid point. There are many people who think subjective evaluations outweigh objective tests.

 

[peach4me]

There's no need to be so discouraging 😡 😡

I know this is a hypothetical and a very interesting thread but I just don't see it happening. To excel on Step I, I'm assuming you have to pretty good understanding of the material. I don't think this exam is just a bunch of rote memorization. I'm assuming the people who do well on Step I are also people who excel in their classes. I think it would be nearly impossible for someone who has slacked off during MS1 and MSII to suddenly score a 250 on Step I; I don't think it works that way. If I were you, I would try to be more realistic and maybe aim for a 230; I think that is a realistic goal.

 

[daelroy]

There's no need to be so discouraging 😡 😡

My opinion could be wrong. i was only providing my gut instinct. I have not taken the exam yet. I just find it hard to believe that one who slacked off during basic sciences can suddenly nail a 250 Step I. Maybe, it's happened before...I don't know. Hey, I'm all for it if it's possible. I just think that if someone aims for something unrealistic, they may not follow through with a study regiment due to feeling overwhelmed. If you set realistic goals and follow through then maybe you can exceed what you set forth. Just my opinon; try not to be so sensitive

 

[caribsun]

its nearly impossible to score a 250 with poor class rank unless you take it multiple times or something but if u work hard u can get the mean or a little above i think.

I know grades, LORs and school rep are also taken into consideration but what about for IM? Can you more or less "step one your way" into a great IM residency if your score is high enough and assuming you interview well. 🙂

 

[DrDre']

At our school, it is difficult to honor and near honor classes. Say near honor is 88%, someone with a subpar class rank (having passed all his classes) could have been unlucky and gotten 87% in each class. There are people like this. They could know all but the smallest minutia but look poor on paper.

People like this could do very well on step 1.

 

[Hercules]

My opinion could be wrong. i was only providing my gut instinct. I have not taken the exam yet. I just find it hard to believe that one who slacked off during basic sciences can suddenly nail a 250 Step I.

I guess a lot of this depends on how you define slacking off. My school divides us into top 1/4, middle 1/2, and bottom 1/4. I was a middle half student in the first 2 years, and pulled a 246/99 on Step 1. I think that with a good study plan, you can definitely outperform your class rank on Step 1.

 

[daelroy]

I guess a lot of this depends on how you define slacking off. My school divides us into top 1/4, middle 1/2, and bottom 1/4. I was a middle half student in the first 2 years, and pulled a 246/99 on Step 1. I think that with a good study plan, you can definitely outperform your class rank on Step 1.

By slacking off, I'm referring to someone who is just scraping by with C's. It's not a coincidence the best students usually perform well on the USMLE. Even the IMG/FMG students who excelled on Step I admitted they were usually in the A- range so I don't see someone who is scraping by with C's just work hard for 10 weeks and get a 250.

 

[scootad.]

Sure but give that person the right materials and anyone can get a 250. For instance, give him/her a well annotated FA from someone who did 250+ and if they memorize it they will do very well.

 

[caribsun]

nope. not possible. a 250 is too high for someone who scraped by.

 

[carrigallen]

Sure but give that person the right materials and anyone can get a 250. For instance, give him/her a well annotated FA from someone who did 250+ and if they memorize it they will do very well.

I think this is rather dubious. The step I exam measures how much you have studied for two years, not two months.

You would have to learn a lot of new concepts and material in two months, and fatigue would destroy your ability to retain it.

The exam is a function of both how smart you are, and how prepared you are. No matter how smart you are, you aren't going to 'memorize' physiology in a month.

 

[bigfrank]

Sure but give that person the right materials and anyone can get a 250. For instance, give him/her a well annotated FA from someone who did 250+ and if they memorize it they will do very well.

Agreed. Coupled with reasonably good logic/insight/inferring capability, a C student with the right materials and study method can certainly do very well on the Step I. The Step I does NOT test minutiae; it tests fairly broad concepts but in rather difficult ways. I've stated several times that there is surprisingly little memorization involved but a great deal of reasoning.

Therefore, a C student who memorized the concepts (and not the gritty/useless lecture details) can do very well on Step I.

 

[novacek88]

Sure but give that person the right materials and anyone can get a 250. For instance, give him/her a well annotated FA from someone who did 250+ and if they memorize it they will do very well.

The months of research it takes to annotate FA is what helps you learn the material. You won't receive its benefits by simply being handed someone else's FA and asked to memorize it in 8 weeks.

 

[novacek88]

Agreed. Coupled with reasonably good logic/insight/inferring capability, a C student with the right materials and study method can certainly do very well on the Step I. The Step I does NOT test minutiae; it tests fairly broad concepts but in rather difficult ways. I've stated several times that there is surprisingly little memorization involved but a great deal of reasoning.

Therefore, a C student who memorized the concepts (and not the gritty/useless lecture details) can do very well on Step I.

If she was this intelligent, she wouldn't be scraping by. We all know lazy students who are exceptionally bright. Those students still earn in the B to low A range. C students are usually those who are lazy and lack a high IQ.

 

[caribsun]

i think all med students are relatively in the high IQ or are bright range of intelligence, but some arent as ambitious or didnt study hard/laziness. and i think bigfrank agrees with it being impossible to score a 250 in a matter of weeks being at the bottom of ur class...he's just being encouraging or being modest in an indirect way cuz everyone knows he rocked the test. maybe theres a word for it in psych🙂

 

[novacek88]

i think all med students are relatively in the high IQ or are bright range of intelligence, but some arent as ambitious or didnt study hard/laziness. and i think bigfrank agrees with it being impossible to score a 250 in a matter of weeks being at the bottom of ur class...he's just being encouraging or being modest in an indirect way cuz everyone knows he rocked the test. maybe theres a word for it in psych🙂

I was speaking in relative terms. There are medical students who are brigher than the average med student. I just don't see a student who is scraping by with C's being some genius who simply doens't study enough. I know plenty of high IQ slackers and they are still at least somewhere in the middle of the class.

It would be interesting to see if anyone can admit he or she was in the bottom 15% of the class at an average medical school and scored a 250.

 

[c diddy]

A 250 on step 1 is an outstanding score, even for ultra competitive residencies like ent, derm, etc. This will definitely get you in the door and if your personality is reasonably good you will match very high. Do you honestly think that all programs read each single class grade, rotation comment, etc? These are busy people with a limited time to select a small number of candidates from probably several thousand applicants, so for the majority of places, particularly in IM, a 250 will stand out quite a bit. Whether you get a pass or high pass in biochem will not make a slight difference. As long as your class rank is in the upper 50% you are fine.

 

[scootad.]

The reason I say what I say is b/c of my own experience. I was middle of the road student getting close to the mean on most exams during M1-M2. I used my sister's FA from the year before which was well-annotated and from which she got a 252. I spent 5 weeks memorizing it- my result? 246/99

 

[novacek88]

The reason I say what I say is b/c of my own experience. I was middle of the road student getting close to the mean on most exams during M1-M2. I used my sister's FA from the year before which was well-annotated and from which she got a 252. I spent 5 weeks memorizing it- my result? 246/99

I stand corrected. That is pretty impressive. Congrats

 

[HiddenTruth]

Agreed. Coupled with reasonably good logic/insight/inferring capability, a C student with the right materials and study method can certainly do very well on the Step I. The Step I does NOT test minutiae; it tests fairly broad concepts but in rather difficult ways. I've stated several times that there is surprisingly little memorization involved but a great deal of reasoning.

Therefore, a C student who memorized the concepts (and not the gritty/useless lecture details) can do very well on Step I.

I hear this all the time, and I haven't taken the real deal yet, but from the means of studying and taking other shelf exams, I only agree with this to an extent. Agree, that concepts are gold and money and beautiful and will get you high in the stars and make you shine, etc; HOWEVER, behind each concept is a load of memorization you have to do. What you may call concepts, may simply be putting things together, but a lot of that is aquired through repetition (which you have stated numerous times) or simply memorization. Knowing micro, for ex, is pretty much all memorization, knowing path is pretty much all memorization--while pathophys is not. I don't understand when people say that there is very little meorization. I understand that they won't ask you to list 5 things that UC can cause, but they will present u a scenario with the 5 things that UC can cause, and u have to be able to recognize it (because you have memorized it, and not simply glanced at it), and accordingly answer whatever associated question they ask you. My point, you gotta know your stuff really well, aka. memorization or repetition, or anythign along those lines. Being able to apply all that memorization may be reasoning--and obviously pathophys and phys in general are all conceptual. I don't know--I just have a hard time understanding this theory.

 

[berkeleyboy]

I hear this all the time, and I haven't taken the real deal yet, but from the means of studying and taking other shelf exams, I only agree with this to an extent. Agree, that concepts are gold and money and beautiful and will get you high in the stars and make you shine, etc; HOWEVER, behind each concept is a load of memorization you have to do. What you may call concepts, may simply be putting things together, but a lot of that is aquired through repetition (which you have stated numerous times) or simply memorization. Knowing micro, for ex, is pretty much all memorization, knowing path is pretty much all memorization--while pathophys is not. I don't understand when people say that there is very little meorization. I understand that they won't ask you to list 5 things that UC can cause, but they will present u a scenario with the 5 things that UC can cause, and u have to be able to recognize it (because you have memorized it, and not simply glanced at it), and accordingly answer whatever associated question they ask you. My point, you gotta know your stuff really well, aka. memorization or repetition, or anythign along those lines. Being able to apply all that memorization may be reasoning--and obviously pathophys and phys in general are all conceptual. I don't know--I just have a hard time understanding this theory.

I completely agree. There's tons of memorization associated with step 1. just look at pharm...they just list the drugs in the answer choices

a) adenosine
b) digoxin
c) epinephrine
d) norepi
e) propanolol
f) etc....

I'm sure the Qs are somewhat conceptual but without memorizing what these drugs do, there's no way you could even possibly think this Q out.
whatever the Q may be.

Same goes for micro, gross, metabolism in biochem, most of path, and def. embryo, and histo.
Without constant repitition and a ton of memorizing there would be no way to get thru this exam.

Berk

 

[chak_de_phatee]

The reason I say what I say is b/c of my own experience. I was middle of the road student getting close to the mean on most exams during M1-M2. I used my sister's FA from the year before which was well-annotated and from which she got a 252. I spent 5 weeks memorizing it- my result? 246/99

scootad is that FA for sale now or you got more siblings????????? 😉

 

[HiddenTruth]

I think when people talk about memorization vs. conceptual learning, it's mostly a matter of whether you understand what you're learning. Memorization, to me, is learning a string of words that go with some other word, without really having a good mental picture of what's actually going on. Conceptual learning is having that mental picture, which means that even if you didn't memorize the words, you could solve a problem involving that concept.

that's true for a lot of phys and pathophys. But, explain to me how you can conceptually reason your way out of the multiple side effects that some of the drugs cause (asides from some of the ones that can be reasoned out, i.e. diuretics, ace-i, etc). Likewise, a lot of pathology is just straight up memorization, meaning there is no way to reason some of those things out. You can't tell me how/why there is a SI lymphoma association with celiac disease, you just can't, but you have memorized it, therefore you can do it on the test. But, anyways, just my 2 cents. We have all been doing this; it's just a matter of symantics at this point, if you've made it this far.

 

[daelroy]

What I don't get is how people say medical school is all memorization. You are lucky if you get a handful of straightforward questions on an exam. It's not like you can just memorize a list or your notes without understanding them and acing a test. In med school, your test questions are never straightforward even in anatomy our questions had some gimic or catch to it that you had to decipher.

I think you have to do both. you have to memorize everything and oonceptually understand everything to excel in medical school But I think it's the biggest myth that medical school is all memorization because it's a lot more than memorization.

 

[Big Lebowski]

Then your program got duped by a bunch of ass kissers. How do you think less intelligent people get higher clinical grades?

To the OP: Unfortunately this guy has a valid point. There are many people who think subjective evaluations outweigh objective tests.

I'd agree with you if the applicants ranked high were the flip side (poor USMLE scores and high clinical marks). What I'm implying is, poor clinical and pre-clinical performance but acing USMLE says something about work ethic. Doing well in medical school, particularly the pre-clinical portion, goes beyond ass kissing. For the clinical years, there is an expected fund of knowledge, reliability, and good patient interactions. People who are just squeaking by are risky candidates....there is a reason why people do poorly with their medical school grades that goes beyond just ass kissing.

 

[scootad.]

scootad is that FA for sale now or you got more siblings????????? 😉

no, the pages are falling out, its had its day. 😉

I agree that its mostly semantics. When I and others say med school is all about memorization of course we are presuming the student has some baseline understanding of the concepts. But the point is, the concepts in medical school are very very easy to understand. Really, you'd have to be an idiot not to understand the concept of a triad, what a rate limiting step is, how a pulmonary embolus can block the arteries supplying the lung, or that certain proteins in the blood are responsible for clotting blood. That is why we reduce it to saying its mostly memorization b/c if you have trouble understanding medical school concepts you truly are stupid.

 

[berkeleyboy]

no, the pages are falling out, its had its day. 😉

I agree that its mostly semantics. When I and others say med school is all about memorization of course we are presuming the student has some baseline understanding of the concepts. But the point is, the concepts in medical school are very very easy to understand. Really, you'd have to be an idiot not to understand the concept of a triad, what a rate limiting step is, how a pulmonary embolus can block the arteries supplying the lung, or that certain proteins in the blood are responsible for clotting blood. That is why we reduce it to saying its mostly memorization b/c if you have trouble understanding medical school concepts you truly are stupid.

This is a great post.

 

[ice_23]

What I don't get is how people say medical school is all memorization. You are lucky if you get a handful of straightforward questions on an exam. It's not like you can just memorize a list or your notes without understanding them and acing a test. In med school, your test questions are never straightforward even in anatomy our questions had some gimic or catch to it that you had to decipher.

I think you have to do both. you have to memorize everything and oonceptually understand everything to excel in medical school But I think it's the biggest myth that medical school is all memorization because it's a lot more than memorization.

perhaps, but it's nothing like math or economics or physics or some other truly "conceptual" sciences. If you memorize everything you need to in medical school, you'll do pretty well figuring out the concepts. Not so for many other fields.

-Ice

 

[novacek88]

no, the pages are falling out, its had its day. 😉

I agree that its mostly semantics. When I and others say med school is all about memorization of course we are presuming the student has some baseline understanding of the concepts. But the point is, the concepts in medical school are very very easy to understand. Really, you'd have to be an idiot not to understand the concept of a triad, what a rate limiting step is, how a pulmonary embolus can block the arteries supplying the lung, or that certain proteins in the blood are responsible for clotting blood. That is why we reduce it to saying its mostly memorization b/c if you have trouble understanding medical school concepts you truly are stupid.

You sound like a pretty intelligent person so for you, these concepts were pretty simple. I don't think you are trying to sound rude but I think you should keep in mind there are a lot of "stupid" people in medical schools like myself who needed to review things several times and ask questions. These concepts were not just intuitive to people like myself. Granted, medical school course work isn't physics but they are not as simple as you are trying to make them out to be either. Biochemistry, biostats, pathophysiology and physiology are very conceptual subjects as an example. Not every class in medical school is like micro. If the concepts in medical school were so simple, then most people would be scoring 240+ on Step I. A monkey can memorize a large volume of information. You wouldn't be in medical school if you couldn't memorize a ton of information. If these board exams and medical school classes only concerned memorizing large volumes of information, most students would be honoring their classes. What separates AOA students from the rest of their class is their ability to infer and put everything together. There are always those 5-10 questions on every exam that most of the class misses and it's not because they contained some rare information the rest of the class failed to memorize. It's usually a question that requires lateral thinking and knowledge of other information from which yo ucan draw on to answer this question. So for many students, medical school was more just memorizing everything. But I can agree that for really bright students, the biggest challenge was just memorizing the information.

 

[scootad.]

Biochemistry, biostats, pathophysiology and physiology are very conceptual subjects as an example. Not every class in medical school is like micro.

Sorry but the only subject listed above that some consider even remotely conceptual is physiology (with the exception of biostats, but really biostats is 1% of step1) and even that subject is 99% memorization. The only major concept in physio is that the body attempts to compensate for imbalances in order to maintain homeostasis. The fact that the PCT reabsorbs 66% sodium or whatever-->memorization, that 21 hydroxylase def. causes virilization-->memorization, that Fev1/Fvc>80% signifies obstructive lung dz--> memorization and so forth.

Biochem, dont get me started. You think knowing all the rate limiting steps of glycolysis or krebs cycle or gluconeogenesis is conceptual. PLEASE! That Gaucher's dz is a deficiency of glucocerebrosidase & leads to foamy macrophages building up in multiple organs conceptual?? Right! That McArdle Dz is a glycogen storage dz is conceptual? Sure.

If the concepts in medical school were so simple, then most people would be scoring 240+ on Step I. A monkey can memorize a large volume of information.

Not true at all. Memorizing is not a difficult skill per say but that doesnt mean that everybody in med school has the patience/time/organizational skills to do it. No, not everybody has the same ability to memorize large bits of info in short periods of time, or how to organize the info into bitesize manageable portions.

There are always those 5-10 questions on every exam that most of the class misses and it's not because they contained some rare information the rest of the class failed to memorize. It's usually a question that requires lateral thinking and knowledge of other information from which yo ucan draw on to answer this question.

That's true, but I'd argue that it wasnt necessarily those handful of "conceptual" questions thats separating the A students from B students. What about the other 95% of questions? No, I dont believe that b/c these other questions were mostly memorization oriented that they are at all a given. There is just too much info to be memorized, too many triads & associations to remember, I'd say most of the discrepancy in scores between students is b/c of different abilities to memorize, and not those rare "conceptual" questions. This is also what separates the 250s from the 210s on Step 1.

 

[bigfrank]

This is great advice. I agree completely. Thanks scootad.!

 

[daelroy]

Scootad

I think you are going to have a tough time convincing others that a person in the bottom of the class can just pick up someone else's well anotated FA and score 240 if they memorized it for 5 weeks. It may have worked for you but for mere mortals, life doesn't work that way. The fact that your sister scored over a 250 shows there is a genetic component involved here. I don't think you could just give your FA to a med student with a low class rank and say memorize this and presto....he gets a 240. Were you scraping by with C's and in the bottom 15% of your class? I doubt it. What type of medical school did you attend? If you are scoring just above the mean at UCLA, that is quite different than doing that at a much lower ranked school with far easier entrance stats. Competition varies with each school. My sister attended Northwestern and she was getting just below the mean. She scored a 240 and many of her classmates at her rank had very respectable scores near that range which didn't suprise anyone.

Maybe Big Frank agrees with some of the things you said but then again Big Frank got a 267 so it's safe to say he is intelligent. So it shouldn't suprise anyone that both of you think there is no conceptualization to medical school coursework but the majority would disagree with you. I never said pre-clinical classes were as difficult as higher math classes but you are hyperbolizing by acting like there is no conceptualization to these classes.

 

[novacek88]

Sorry but the only subject listed above that some consider even remotely conceptual is physiology (with the exception of biostats, but really biostats is 1% of step1) and even that subject is 99% memorization. The only major concept in physio is that the body attempts to compensate for imbalances in order to maintain homeostasis. The fact that the PCT reabsorbs 66% sodium or whatever-->memorization, that 21 hydroxylase def. causes virilization-->memorization, that Fev1/Fvc>80% signifies obstructive lung dz--> memorization and so forth.

Oh PLEASE, by your reasoning, you could argue physics is merely a matter of memorization. Memorize the formulas and the situations in which they are applied and you are golden.That's basically what you are saying about physiology. Of course, physics is not this simple and neither is physiology. Homeostasis may be a single concept but it describes a variety of processes in variety of systems. You can be asked a myriad of questions and you have to know how these systems would react in a given scenario. It's not just memorization. That would be like saying: "Yeah physics isn't too conceptual. It's only about how forces relate to one another."

Biochem, dont get me started. You think knowing all the rate limiting steps of glycolysis or krebs cycle or gluconeogenesis is conceptual. PLEASE! That Gaucher's dz is a deficiency of glucocerebrosidase & leads to foamy macrophages building up in multiple organs conceptual?? Right! That McArdle Dz is a glycogen storage dz is conceptual? Sure.

How about diabetes and exercise? What about particular situations in which the body is starved or fed and how your physiology changes? How about clinical scenarios with the clotting cascade and which drugs to apply in particular situations. I could go on and on... Memorizing some steps in a pathway won't help you answer those questions if you don't understand the big picture.

Sorry but classes like physiology and biochem are not like micro, and pharm. You can borrow someone else's Excel spread sheet and memorize all the microorganisms or drugs and their corresponding features without doing anything else and still do quite well on those exams. You can't do this for physiology and biochem. There is a reason why you don't see mutliple varieties of physiology and biochem flash cards for sale like you do with anatomy, pharm and micro. I'm not disagreeing with you in regards to the importance of memorization. You have to memorize everyting. And if I had to choose between memorizing something and understanding it, I would choose to memorize the subject manner. I agree that you can't just reason your way through questions that require memorization. What I am arguing is that certain classes in medical school like physiology and biochem require more than just rote memorization. Understanding these concepts may be intuitive to you but for the majority of the class, they are not as easy as you are suggesting.

 

[scootad.]

Actually, I'm not really disagreeing with you with regard to medical school itself. At my school, our physio exams were all case based essays & you had to know the concepts well to apply the info b/c the cases were not at all straightforward. And I also agree that to understand Fed & starved states etc. you need to understand the concepts well. But I still stand by my assertion that Step 1 is different. First of all, sure all versions are different, but these topics were not really tested much on Step 1 (except for the one fact that the brain uses ketone bodies (or at least they weren't emphasized on my version or my practice tests -surely if they were I'd have been f*cked. or maybe i just dont remember them b/c i took this thing 2 years ago). They also dont care about that crap on Step 2 or the 3rd year shelves (probably b/c most of its not practical info). I maintain that doing well on Step 1 is very much more an exercise of memorization than anything else. The person who knows a little about tons will outscore the person who knows tons about a little every single time. Obviously its ideal to know a ton about a ton, but usually thats not possible.

 

[Ramoray]

I think after reading the above posts that everyone is really agreeing and the problem is how you define memorization. Personally i am in the school of thought that understanding will go further than straight mem., also i am useless at memorizing straight up so its not even an option for me. However, for example i just got my path shelf results back after having taken it a couple weeks ago and i did extremely well and i did not review a single day for the test or memorize anything persay, however during the year i probably read every chapter in big robbins 8 or 9 times and on questiosn on the test i "remembered" alot of stuff that i didnt even know i had knew. Therefore of course it is crucial for step 1 to be able to remember - "memorize" things or else youll be ****ed but i think some poeple do it diff ways. Some straight up memorize a book like brs path which after taking the shelf would seem like limited usefullness if you didnt have a good understanding before. Others read to learn big concepts and then dont have to memorize as much because they can approach a question from multiple angels and figure it out or reason it out, however they also have to "remember" key assoaciations etc. So it comes down to ideally you need the understanding and whoever can remember the most will rock step 1-

 

[HiddenTruth]

however during the year i probably read every chapter in big robbins 8 or 9 times and on questiosn on the test i "remembered" alot of stuff that i didnt even know i had knew. -

you either are a genius, and can read like a superhuman, or....lock your self and do nothing but read. Either way, it's very impressive, congrats. Unfortauntely, I tried doing that, but couldn't keep up, with our path course being only 3.5 months long, so had to ditch the big robbins half way through.

 

[chak_de_phatee]

I think after reading the above posts that everyone is really agreeing and the problem is how you define memorization. Personally i am in the school of thought that understanding will go further than straight mem., also i am useless at memorizing straight up so its not even an option for me. However, for example i just got my path shelf results back after having taken it a couple weeks ago and i did extremely well and i did not review a single day for the test or memorize anything persay, however during the year i probably read every chapter in big robbins 8 or 9 times and on questiosn on the test i "remembered" alot of stuff that i didnt even know i had knew. Therefore of course it is crucial for step 1 to be able to remember - "memorize" things or else youll be ****ed but i think some poeple do it diff ways. Some straight up memorize a book like brs path which after taking the shelf would seem like limited usefullness if you didnt have a good understanding before. Others read to learn big concepts and then dont have to memorize as much because they can approach a question from multiple angels and figure it out or reason it out, however they also have to "remember" key assoaciations etc. So it comes down to ideally you need the understanding and whoever can remember the most will rock step 1-

That is awesome...........I could not hang with daddy but I did look at all the pics and graphs..........but I liked robbins so much I bought baby and read it cover to cover.............although baby has some concepts that might be a little out of date...........I love this book more than netter.
What I found was that robbins helps me lay a very solid foundation upon which I can build picky details from BRS.

 

[Ramoray]

no no i am below avj intelligence but i did enjoy robbins alot, esp following first year in which i despised those boring classes for the most part. The thing is our path class was the entire year and we finished pharm and micro after semester 1 so i had bascially an entire 2nd semester to spend all my time studying path and all i did was read the robbins books with occasional rubins read and of course my fav- harrisons but ya i had a ton of time on my hands. I also never went to class. So yes i am slow that is probably why i have to read it 8 times, not 2 times like a normal person! ya but agreed its a good book

 

[novacek88]

I think after reading the above posts that everyone is really agreeing and the problem is how you define memorization. Personally i am in the school of thought that understanding will go further than straight mem., also i am useless at memorizing straight up so its not even an option for me. However, for example i just got my path shelf results back after having taken it a couple weeks ago and i did extremely well and i did not review a single day for the test or memorize anything persay, however during the year i probably read every chapter in big robbins 8 or 9 times and on questiosn on the test i "remembered" alot of stuff that i didnt even know i had knew. Therefore of course it is crucial for step 1 to be able to remember - "memorize" things or else youll be ****ed but i think some poeple do it diff ways. Some straight up memorize a book like brs path which after taking the shelf would seem like limited usefullness if you didnt have a good understanding before. Others read to learn big concepts and then dont have to memorize as much because they can approach a question from multiple angels and figure it out or reason it out, however they also have to "remember" key assoaciations etc. So it comes down to ideally you need the understanding and whoever can remember the most will rock step 1-

I agree with everything you said. To clarify what I was saying is that I think people with above average intelligence (average meaning relative to your average medical school student) can understand concepts more quickly. Therefore, to these people, it's just a matter of memorizing information. I know a lot of people who can sit in lecture, understand everything perfectly well after one sitting. Other people need to read something several times to understand everything and then will proceed to memorize the information after they do so. I was one of these people.

The important thing is for students to accept their limitations and know how they learn. If you are someone who is a visual learned and needs to see how everything relates to one another, then you will obviously require more time to study something. Others can read it, get it and it's just a matter of memorizing it. You have to see how everyone's advice pertains to you. If someone says you just have to memorize everything and you are a visual learner, that advice won't really pertain to you. Likewise, if someone says you have to do more than memorize and you have always done fine by just memorizing then stick to that plan. The only right way to study is whatever works for you.