Can a FP pay off $150,000 debt and not be living in poverty?

[DotheDo]

Any insights...the debt is just starting to seem massive to me.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[doc05]

the debt is massive, but don't worry. your options include HPSP, not a bad idea for an FP.

look into consolidating your loans with a 30-year payback. You'll pay more in the end, but your monthly payments will be much lower, freeing up a ton of cash.

 

[2tall]

It's called living on a B U D G E T.

 

[DotheDo]

its private med school loans. i had no debt going into med school.. People said dont worry about the debt..now look.

 

[2tall]

just develop a financial plan. know what you're getting yourself into. also realize that it's manageable. no one is saying it's going to be easy. it's going to take a lot of discipline. it'll be worth it in the long run. apply for scholarships/grants. try poetry and creative writing. you seem to have a lot of feelings you need to get out.

 

[Lonestar]

well, you won't be living in poverty. Lets see, FP salary around 130-150K per year ($11K per month). your loans assuming interest at end of residency around 180K (about 2.5K per month). Taxes 4K per month. so thats (11-4-2.5). Around 5.5 K per month. You can afford a 300K house and a nice car and take 2 vacations per year. Not too shaby in my opinion. What about lifestyle??? are you willing to take more call or less, if the latter is true than your salary will drop. Vacation time around 3-4 weeks, if you want more than you will have another drop in that salary. Money is important but so is the amount of free time to enjoy it. I would make less for more free time, but thats just me. Can you live with making less money.

 

[skypilot]

$150 k debt isn't bad at all. Can you live on $34k for a few years?

($34 take home is the equivalent of a $50k before tax income)

$120k *.7 (taxes) = take home 84000-34000= 50000 towards debt each year

Should be able to pay it off in about 4 years.

 

[medic170]

Can a FP pay off $150,000 debt and not be living in poverty?

yes

 

[tupac_don]

Any insights...the debt is just starting to seem massive to me.

Pay off the debt and not live in poverty????? Do you know what poverty is? You are so melodramatic. Come on now, of course you can pay it off and live like a average middleclass, not poverty though. You can probably live like someone on a 40,000 dollar income. If you make 120,000 starting, say u make 80,000 net after taxes, you can live off 40,000/year, and pay off 40,000. This would mean you wouldn't be too flashy for first few years. But if I was you my first and foremost priority would be to pay off the debt ASAP so it's not hanging over my head. Your salary will also increase as you progress in FP. My projection if you are of the mindset to pay off the debt as soon as possible, it can be done in 2-3 years. Just think of making a dent in it. If you can bring it down to 100,000 after 1st year of working, you are doing real well. If you are single, you can live comfortably off of 30,000 a year, no problems. Now you probably won't have flash and pizzaz and drive a beamer, but so what, you are not a movie star you are a doctor. It's all about having a goal, and working towards it to make it happen.

 

[YzIa]

Pay off the debt and not live in poverty????? Do you know what poverty is? You are so melodramatic. Come on now, of course you can pay it off and live like a average middleclass, not poverty though.

Thank you! Some people have no clue about money. Many families live comfortably on 40k/year total income. If you can manage as a resident, you can live financially like that for a few more years and pay off your loans quickly.

150,000 is quickly becoming a state school debt as well. My state school's budget is nearly 40k this year

 

[USFOptho]

You boys crazy?

I see posts regarding "paying it off 40k a year at a time, within 4 years you'll be done".

Look, interest rates are so low right now. Avoid paying the debt off for as long as you can, investing the principle you would otherwise be wasting in a 6-8% (even 5.5% straight up dividend stock) safe investment, so you'll come out ahead in the long run. DO NOT PAY OFF DEBT EARLY: WAIT AS LONG AS YOU CAN IF YOU HAVE THESE INSANE INTEREST RATES!



P.S. Fippers do make very little, but you can still do well as long as you invest wisely. However, with the way socialized care is going, Fippers money will keep going down. It's amazing how little doctors know about politics and business....

 

[medic170]

P.S. Fippers do make very little, .

Are you joking? Paramedics, janitors, and food service workers make "very little". I would hardly classify an average annual earnings of $120,000-200,000 as "very little."

 

[USFOptho]

Are you joking? Paramedics, janitors, and food service workers make "very little". I would hardly classify an average annual earnings of $120,000-200,000 as "very little."

Medic,

Are you a med student? Do you know how hard Fippers have to work and how much they have to know just to do their job? When the market was allowed to set salaries (before artifical vices like the government juggernaut and HMO's) fippers were doing quite well. Now? If you think they are making 120-200, you're dreaming.

Fippers are signing for 90k, and even with the hard hard work and a decent biz plan, are toppping off around 150k. Cut out taxes, and yes, I think that's very little considering what they do. However, to each their own..Fippers could do much better with a little more business and POLITICAL acumen, but, most Docs think they are god, and thus, see little need to change themselves or bond together in groups for change. Oh well!

 

[medic170]

Medic,

Are you a med student? Do you know how hard Fippers have to work and how much they have to know just to do their job? When the market was allowed to set salaries (before artifical vices like the government juggernaut and HMO's) fippers were doing quite well. Now? If you think they are making 120-200, you're dreaming.

Fippers are signing for 90k, and even with the hard hard work and a decent biz plan, are toppping off around 150k. Cut out taxes, and yes, I think that's very little considering what they do. However, to each their own..Fippers could do much better with a little more business and POLITICAL acumen, but, most Docs think they are god, and thus, see little need to change themselves or bond together in groups for change. Oh well!

1. No, I do not start med school until fall, although I do not see how that is pertinent. Why does that matter? I have worked in the medical field for 8 years, and I have several friends who practice.

2. Yes, I do know how hard FP docs work and how much they have to know, and yes they do make that much money. I have worked in family practice offices and I have 3 close friends/mentors that have private practices in mid-Michigan. I don't know, maybe it is different in other parts of the country, but FP#1 told me he clears $220,000 after taxes and expenses, FP#2 makes about $160,000, and FP#3 makes $350,000(granted he also has 2 PA's that work for him). Now these guys are well established and more than 5 years out of school though. This data is anecdotal, and I would agree that salaried physicians in FP make less at first(not as low as $90,000 though), but take a look at number 3 below.

3. According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor and Statistics, the median annual salary after expenses for FP without OB is $150,267. This alone proves my point with a true statistic. Source: Medical Group Management Association, Physician Compensation and Production Report (http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos074.htm) granted this data is from 2003, but I doubt it has gone down in 2 years.

Like I said, It probably has a lot to do with location too. For the Lansing, MI metro area, the mean annual salary for FP after expenses is $178,920 (Same Source http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_4040.htm#b29-0000)

 

[fun8stuff]

1. No, I do not start med school until fall, although I do not see how that is pertinent. Why does that matter? I have worked in the medical field for 8 years, and I have several friends who practice.

2. Yes, I do know how hard FP docs work and how much they have to know, and yes they do make that much money. I have worked in family practice offices and I have 3 close friends/mentors that have private practices in mid-Michigan. I don't know, maybe it is different in other parts of the country, but FP#1 told me he clears $220,000 after taxes and expenses, FP#2 makes about $160,000, and FP#3 makes $350,000(granted he also has 2 PA's that work for him). Now these guys are well established and more than 5 years out of school though. This data is anecdotal, and I would agree that salaried physicians in FP make less at first(not as low as $90,000 though), but take a look at number 3 below.

3. According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor and Statistics, the median annual salary after expenses for FP without OB is $150,267. This alone proves my point with a true statistic. Source: Medical Group Management Association, Physician Compensation and Production Report (http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos074.htm) granted this data is from 2003, but I doubt it has gone down in 2 years.

Like I said, It has a lot to do with location. For the Lansing, MI metro area, the mean annual salary for FP after expenses is $178,920 (Same Source http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_4040.htm#b29-0000)

heh... pwn'd!

 

[RDickerson]

Medic you da man

 

[medic170]

Medic you da man

I just don't get all the misinformation out there that deters people from Family Practice. The truth is, you can make a damn good living as a FP physician, and once you establish your patient base, you will make plenty of money. Also, regarding respect, FP docs do get respect from other FP's as well as specialists and surgeons. Why? Because without FP referrals, specialists would make "very little"

 

[WVmed]

I just don't get all the misinformation out there that deters people from Family Practice. The truth is, you can make a damn good living as a FP physician, and once you establish your patient base, you will make plenty of money. Also, regarding respect, FP docs do get respect from other FP's as well as specialists and surgeons. Why? Because without FP referrals, specialists would make "very little"

To answer the OP, definately look into residency payback options for FP docs. That's the best way to get rid of debt I think.
I hear ya, Medic. What's with the stigma surrounding FP? People act like it's some "lower" form of medicine. It's a fantastic profession with good traditions and respectability.

 

[mdsadler]

You boys crazy?

I see posts regarding "paying it off 40k a year at a time, within 4 years you'll be done".

Look, interest rates are so low right now. Avoid paying the debt off for as long as you can, investing the principle you would otherwise be wasting in a 6-8% (even 5.5% straight up dividend stock) safe investment, so you'll come out ahead in the long run. DO NOT PAY OFF DEBT EARLY: WAIT AS LONG AS YOU CAN IF YOU HAVE THESE INSANE INTEREST RATES!



P.S. Fippers do make very little, but you can still do well as long as you invest wisely. However, with the way socialized care is going, Fippers money will keep going down. It's amazing how little doctors know about politics and business....

this is exactly what my brother tells me. he is taking some courses in financial management and all things money that i don't really understand. he says that student loans are gold if you can save some of your money as described above. this works because you keep more money for yourself and are able to save it, benefitting from the interest you gain from it.

 

[USFOptho]

Um..pwned?

Medic,

Keep dreaming. Those salaries are based on people already established, and those salaries are going down. The new grads are facing terrible compensation.

Oh, and yes, it matters. Being a paramedic for 8 years doesn't qualify you to understand the salary trends and salary demands of a medical doctor. I think you'll change your mind (probably) before it's over.

Adios boys....I'm off on vacation.

 

[medic170]

Um..pwned?

Medic,

Keep dreaming. Those salaries are based on people already established, and those salaries are going down. The new grads are facing terrible compensation.

Oh, and yes, it matters. Being a paramedic for 8 years doesn't qualify you to understand the salary trends and salary demands of a medical doctor. I think you'll change your mind (probably) before it's over.

Adios boys....I'm off on vacation.

So you learn some magical thing during the medical school about the salary tends of FP docs that I, having worked with family docs for 8 years and known them personally for longer, do not know? Whatever, I provided clear cut statistics to prove my point and you have not provided jack to support yours. I think that what the statistics tell us, along with what I have been told by practicing FP docs and experienced working with them, carries more weight than your anecdotal opinion.

 

[Ross434]

So you learn some magical thing during the medical school about the salary tends of FP docs that I, having worked with family docs for 8 years and known them personally for longer, do not know? Whatever, I provided clear cut statistics to prove my point and you have not provided jack to support yours. I think that what the statistics tell us, along with what I have been told by practicing FP docs and experienced working with them, carries more weight than your anecdotal opinion.

I'll support both of you guys here. From my experience and research, I definitely think the average across the nation is around 140-160k. However, there are some cities and areas of the country where you really do start at 90k and are lucky to break 135k. In highly desirable areas, and in areas that are unnaturally saturated with healthcare (like madison, where i live, for example), salaries are WAY down (especially salaries - because everyone here is employed by UW health). But outside of these areas, i think most FP's make more, probably above the national average.

 

[medic170]

I'll support both of you guys here. From my experience and research, I definitely think the average across the nation is around 140-160k. However, there are some cities and areas of the country where you really do start at 90k and are lucky to break 135k. In highly desirable areas, and in areas that are unnaturally saturated with healthcare (like madison, where i live, for example), salaries are WAY down (especially salaries - because everyone here is employed by UW health). But outside of these areas, i think most FP's make more, probably above the national average.

I said, more than once, in my posts that it can depend on location.

 

[joe6102]

$150 k debt isn't bad at all. Can you live on $34k for a few years?

($34 take home is the equivalent of a $50k before tax income)

$120k *.7 (taxes) = take home 84000-34000= 50000 towards debt each year

Should be able to pay it off in about 4 years.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it is my understanding that all federal student loans are tax-deductible. So, you will be paying off loans in pre-tax dollars.

$120k - 50k towards debt each year = 70k taxable * .7 = 49k take home = huge difference

 

[Trismegistus4]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it is my understanding that all federal student loans are tax-deductible. So, you will be paying off loans in pre-tax dollars.

$120k - 50k towards debt each year = 70k taxable * .7 = 49k take home = huge difference

Unfortunately not. Only the interest portion of the loan payment is tax deductible, and the amount you can deduct depends on your income. There's an income limit which if you go above you can't deduct anything--last year it was around $80k.

 

[thackl]

$150 k debt isn't bad at all. Can you live on $34k for a few years?

($34 take home is the equivalent of a $50k before tax income)

$120k *.7 (taxes) = take home 84000-34000= 50000 towards debt each year

Should be able to pay it off in about 4 years.

I'm not going FP, but this is the plan until loans are paid. I think it would be wise for all new dr's to consider this.

 

[fun8stuff]

I'm not going FP, but this is the plan until loans are paid. I think it would be wise for all new dr's to consider this.

yeah, this is what i initially thought too. Then, as someone stated above, a bunch of people told me that it is wiser to invest all that money that you would use to pay off your loans because you can invest it at a higher interest rate than the rate your debt accumulates interest. So, as long as interest rates are low, it is better to pay of your debt over a number of years, and make money off the money you would be using to pay it all off right away. Of course, i am kind of skeptical as to whether I would actually invest this money instead of spending it on toys...

 

[thackl]

yeah, this is what i initially thought too. Then, as someone stated above, a bunch of people told me that it is wiser to invest all that money that you would use to pay off your loans because you can invest it at a higher interest rate than the rate your debt accumulates interest. So, as long as interest rates are low, it is better to pay of your debt over a number of years, and make money off the money you would be using to pay it all off right away. Of course, i am kind of skeptical as to whether I would actually invest this money instead of spending it on toys...

That's IF you invest it. Most people don't have the personal discipline to do that and will just go out and buy expensive things. Now if you could live on that $50k/yr and quickly pack away an amount equal to your student loans, then use it as a fund to pay off the loans..... AND the market is doing better than your interest rate (no guarantee), then yes, you will come out better with the investing. So, who's gonna do that?

Your logic is generally an excuse people use to not pay off debts and just enjoy their money irresponsibly. I personally want the debt gone.

 

[fun8stuff]

That's IF you invest it. Most people don't have the personal discipline to do that and will just go out and buy expensive things. Now if you could live on that $50k/yr and quickly pack away an amount equal to your student loans, then use it as a fund to pay off the loans..... AND the market is doing better than your interest rate (no guarantee), then yes, you will come out better with the investing. So, who's gonna do that?

Your logic is generally an excuse people use to not pay off debts and just enjoy their money irresponsibly. I personally want the debt gone.

yeh, i wasn't disagreeing with you... just siting what I heard. I am the same way- I hate being in debt.

 

[synapse lapse]

Just go to physicianrecruiting.com and you can see postings for FP jobs around the country. There are plenty of them with starting salaries FP w/o OB at $125k Plus.

 

[medic170]

Just go to physicianrecruiting.com and you can see postings for FP jobs around the country. There are plenty of them with starting salaries FP w/o OB at $125k Plus.

Thanks for the backup Dr. Pink.