Can a man be an OB/GYN? Should he?

[MedPR]

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Are you speaking in a general sense or reflecting on this thread? I haven't seen anyone blame the victim here, and in general those who do are usually backed into a corner and making idiot statements.

As with everything there ARE two sides to every story. Not that a victim is ever at fault, but there are girls out there who cry wolf. As a non rapist I am more familiar with the latter.

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Non-convicted..?




















(notsrs)

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[Law2Doc]

I only stated that to me, having a pelvic exam from a man wud feel like that. That's not unreasonable...

If you are premed then yes I think it's pretty unreasonable. This isn't a sexual act, by any stretch of the imagination. Being a doctor necessarily involves getting rid of a lot of the cultural modesty and taboo, and you are going to be examining every orifice of many a patient. You won't be turned on, there will be nothing purient, it's all necessary and you have to be able to get comfortable with it. You will be examining people, and it won't be "penetration by a stranger". If you equate general examination with sexual assault, I really don't see how you are going to be a doctor. We all do many speculum exams, DREs, penile and testicular exams during med school and training. Sure you need to be sensitive if people's assault history, but if you view the examination itself as a form of assault, that's problematic.

 

[touchpause13]

Compared to the amount of women who are victimized, the amount that lie is so so so much smaller.

 

[theWhat]

Are you speaking in a general sense or reflecting on this thread? I haven't seen anyone blame the victim here, and in general those who do are usually backed into a corner and making idiot statements.

As with everything there ARE two sides to every story. Not that a victim is ever at fault, but there are girls out there who cry wolf. As a non rapist I am more familiar with the latter.

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I'm more speaking in general, but do not think that physicians are immune to this behavior. There are some who cry wolf perhaps, but the percentage that don't report is astronomically higher.

 

[touchpause13]

If you are premed then yes I think it's pretty unreasonable. This isn't a sexual act, by any stretch of the imagination. Being a doctor necessarily involves getting rid of a lot of the cultural modesty and taboo, and you are going to be examining every orifice of many a patient. You won't be turned on, there will be nothing purient, it's all necessary and you have to be able to get comfortable with it. You will be examining people, and it won't be "penetration by a stranger". If you equate general examination with sexual assault, I really don't see how you are going to be a doctor. We all do many speculum exams, DREs, penile and testicular exams during med school and training. Sure you need to be sensitive if people's assault history, but if you view the examination itself as a form of assault, that's problematic.

You are beyond twisting my words. look I've been a cna for years I don't have any problem with examining other ppl. I don't see it as sexual and fyi rape or assualt isn't really sexual either

 

[SpecterGT260]

Non-convicted..?


(notsrs)

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I see what you did there 😎

But in all seriousness I think it is a problem that gets overlooked. Probably because it is seen as a lesser evil, or more likely the allowance for a notion that some girls may fake such a thing flies in the face of those who have lived it. I can't tell you the number of girls who I've heard say "I can't believe any girl would ever lie about something so horrible" 🙄
Really? It goes back to what I mentioned earlier. No girl who had ever actually experienced such a thing would. But for those who haven't it is a distant "can't happen to me" sort of thing. I had a crazy ex gf get mad at me after a post break up drunk hook up because I went home before she woke up (classless, whatever, but this bish was cray). Just because she was mad she told me she was going to have her friend take her to the ER for an assault workup unless I came back to talk to her 🙄 I told her good luck w that and if she pressed the issue I'd line up 20 of our mutual friends who saw her follow me around all night trying to get me to go back to her room.

The point is I am aware such things happen. I also think it is quite common in college communities as people make generally dumb decisions. I also think it severely undermines the trauma that women who actually have been assaulted experience. But I have seen denial on the other side where people say "oh no its too serious to ever be lied about". The trick is to understand that nothing is sacred to people who have no skin in the game, and understanding this will result in a much less biased approach to an issue. Rape in my state is almost guilty until proven innocent.


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[theWhat]

Take this with a grain of salt. But....http://polimicks.livejournal.com/5618.html

 

[SpecterGT260]

Compared to the amount of women who are victimized, the amount that lie is so so so much smaller.

You have no stats on this. This is an emotional answer. I understand why you would think so and respect your experiences, but further discussion requires critical thinking.

In my experience, personally, those of girls I know, friends of girls ive dated, and those of my guy friends, lying is much more common than it is given credit for. I dont attempt to measure the two against each other,however. Again, i am only speaking about college age. I suspect lying drops significantly as people age and arent spending their nights doing body shots off of each other. But ive personally witnessed several drunken regrets get spun into an assault story by a girl whp was afraid her bf would break up with her or her friends would judge her.... whatever. It happens quite often.

If you are premed then yes I think it's pretty unreasonable. This isn't a sexual act, by any stretch of the imagination. Being a doctor necessarily involves getting rid of a lot of the cultural modesty and taboo, and you are going to be examining every orifice of many a patient. You won't be turned on, there will be nothing purient, it's all necessary and you have to be able to get comfortable with it. You will be examining people, and it won't be "penetration by a stranger". If you equate general examination with sexual assault, I really don't see how you are going to be a doctor. We all do many speculum exams, DREs, penile and testicular exams during med school and training. Sure you need to be sensitive if people's assault history, but if you view the examination itself as a form of assault, that's problematic.

I disagree with you here. She didn't call the exam an assault. She said it reminded her of it. I think this is perfectly reasonable. She recognizes the cause of her discomfort and addresses it. A male physician is not owed patronage transcending a patients personal feelings regardless of how irrational. I see no problems with her explanation.

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[theWhat]

You have no stats on this. This is an emotional answer. I understand why you would think so and respect your experiences, but further discussion requires critical thinking.

In my experience, personally, those of girls I know, friends of girls ive dated, and those of my guy friends, lying is much more common than it is given credit for. I dont attempt to measure the two against each other,however. Again, i am only speaking about college age. I suspect lying drops significantly as people age and arent spending their nights doing body shots off of each other. But ive personally witnessed several drunken regrets get spun into an assault story by a girl whp was afraid her bf would break up with her or her friends would judge her.... whatever. It happens quite often.







I disagree with you here. She didn't call the exam an assault. She said it reminded her of it. I think this is perfectly reasonable. She recognizes the cause of her discomfort and addresses it. A male physician is not owed patronage transcending a patients personal feelings regardless of how irrational. I see no problems with her explanation.

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I think there's also something to be said about our culture that doesn't always define rape properly. Legally perhaps, but many men have the idea that when a woman says no or indicates no they think that they just need to try harder or bring more game, etc. the women may "comply" physically, but emotionally they might not actually want it. Who's to blame in this situation? I think it takes responsibility on both ends, but I absolutely think men need to stop being pushy when it comes to sex.

 

[theWhat]

Now that this thread has been completely derailed, http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=Lga7ljDtuhA&desktop_uri=/watch?v=Lga7ljDtuhA

 

[SpecterGT260]

I think there's also something to be said about our culture that doesn't always define rape properly. Legally perhaps, but many men have the idea that when a woman says no or indicates no they think that they just need to try harder or bring more game, etc. the women may "comply" physically, but emotionally they might not actually want it. Who's to blame in this situation? I think it takes responsibility on both ends, but I absolutely think men need to stop being pushy when it comes to sex.

I agree. Men need to take "no" seriously. In my circle of friends if a guy gets pushy he gets a talking to. Directly. None of this running screens or interference stuff. Women need to also actually say no as well.

There is also a grey area (how wide? Dunno). For example I had a gf who I was with for 2 years who had a rape fantasy (she was one of those who hadn't actually experienced anything like assault, obviously). A year into the relationship she suddenly starts saying "no stop" as we start doing things. So I stop, and she actually asks why 😕 this cycled for 15 min until I just rolled over and went to bed bc I'm not messing around w that. Next day she says she thinks its hot 😕.

On the flip side, my current gf has a couple friends who live aways away from downtown. They will flirt w guys specifically for a warm place to sleep and a ride to their car in the morning. After going home with a guy they never put out. Now, it is absolutely wrong for one of these guys to push it on them. No discussion to be had there. IMO its also wrong to imply sex to take advantage of a guy in any sense. You blur lines and make it more difficult to tend to legitimate victims (that word used intentionally ). One of her friends did this to a classmate of mine a few times. He got wise and on the last attempt he left her ass on the sidewalk and went in alone. It was epic 😀. Its just my opinion that sex should never be a weapon in EITHER direction.

To touchpause, i make no attempt to diminish your experiences or to compare yours to anyone else. I mention these things because it is a problem that affects more than just one group. As a man who has played by the books his whole life in attempts to have meaningful relationships both physically and emotionally, it is pretty damn scary when a sorority girl gets an idea from a friend that she can cry rape when she feels slighted. Even the claim can tarnish a record for life.

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[KnuxNole]

Now that this thread has been completely derailed, http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=Lga7ljDtuhA&desktop_uri=/watch?v=Lga7ljDtuhA

👍

Delivering male patients FTW

 

[MedPR]

This is only tangentially related, and I bring it up only because someone in this thread has identified thesmelf (on SDN) as queer gendered (i'm not using it as a slang for homosexual, so don't ban me mods). If a woman who identifies as queer is assaulted by a man, and then became untrusting of all men, would that queer woman be able to have a gyn exam performed by a queer gendered man? 100% serious.

Edit: I personally think gender is gender, regardless of what you personally identify with, but people on SDN have argued that you can essentially pick your gender as gender isn't defined by anatomical parts.

 

[mvenus929]

Pretty sure females go to a urologist too...

There's actually a subspecialty of OB-GYN that deals with female urology. So in certain practices, the patient population is entirely male.

Also victims of assault perhaps aren't going to love being examined by male doctors of any specialty, so this isn't really the segment of the population that can drive ones decision. I mean is it not still uncomfortable to have a male FP or internist have you disrobe to your undies so he can do a complete physical? Or have a male dermatologist take a look at warts and moles in immodest places? Or get a colonoscopy from a male GI doctor, or a mammogram or breast mass biopsy from a male radiologist? Or have a male breast surgeon or oncologist deal with a breast lump? Women represent over half the world population and over half the worlds medical problems, but less than half of the worlds doctors, so doctors of both genders are going to train to take care of them for the foreseeable future. Suggesting women's health issues should only be dealt with by women (many of whom are reportedly less compassionate than their male counterparts, as noted above) because there are some victims of assault out there is absurd.

It's about disease and anatomy, not sex, people.

If you are premed then yes I think it's pretty unreasonable. This isn't a sexual act, by any stretch of the imagination. Being a doctor necessarily involves getting rid of a lot of the cultural modesty and taboo, and you are going to be examining every orifice of many a patient. You won't be turned on, there will be nothing purient, it's all necessary and you have to be able to get comfortable with it. You will be examining people, and it won't be "penetration by a stranger". If you equate general examination with sexual assault, I really don't see how you are going to be a doctor. We all do many speculum exams, DREs, penile and testicular exams during med school and training. Sure you need to be sensitive if people's assault history, but if you view the examination itself as a form of assault, that's problematic.

I'm going to be a pediatrician. I've been asked to leave a couple rooms when a boy (usually around puberty) comes in for a testicular exam because I'm female. I've also had a rather challenging conversation with a man that would have gone a whole lot easier had I been male (related to sexual assault). There's nothing wrong with someone showing preference for one gender over the other.

And as someone who has both done and had pelvic exams done on me, I can say that no matter how removed the clinician is from the experience, it is a traumatizing experience for some. Some clinicians are better than others at relieving anxiety, but it can still be a traumatizing experience. If it makes the patient feel better to have one gender over the other (as there are many women who prefer male physicians), then let them if it's feasible.

That said, I know a number of wonderful male OB-GYNs. Two of the male residents I worked with on OB were a whole lot nicer than a lot of the female residents I worked with.

 

[Sidereum]

Edit: I personally think gender is gender, regardless of what you personally identify with, but people on SDN have argued that you can essentially pick your gender as gender isn't defined by anatomical parts.

Psychologically speaking, gender is defined by one's self-identification, while sex is determined by one's anatomy. Of course, gender can and is used in the way you defined, but most people would differentiate between the two along the line of biology vs. psychology/personality.

 

[SpecterGT260]

This is only tangentially related, and I bring it up only because someone in this thread has identified thesmelf (on SDN) as queer gendered (i'm not using it as a slang for homosexual, so don't ban me mods). If a woman who identifies as queer is assaulted by a man, and then became untrusting of all men, would that queer woman be able to have a gyn exam performed by a queer gendered man? 100% serious.

Edit: I personally think gender is gender, regardless of what you personally identify with, but people on SDN have argued that you can essentially pick your gender as gender isn't defined by anatomical parts.

The terminology gets complicated. The point is to to understand the person rather than worry too much about precise terms. You can be male, but are you a man necessarily? What defines such things?

I don't think it is this cut and dried. Touchpause named her own preference. She is unable to receive a pelvic exam from a man due to personal conflicts. There is nothing wrong with this. I'd hope for something at some point to give her closure on her experience such that day to day (year to year? Whatever) occurrences are not interfered with based on a tragic incident. But it isn't for us to tell someone when trauma and its manifestations are or are not appropriate. Some women overcome hurdles associated with assault and do not have these hang ups. Some have different hang ups (avoidance of locations or activities rather than situations). It is all relative. When she says "unable" she is describing a trigger for discomfort associated with the event. Maybe a very overtly homosexual man or a transgendered man wouldn't trigger the feelings. Maybe they would. Maybe a trans woman would as well(or would for another woman who had gone through this).

Try to put yourself in this position or think of terrible things that have happened to you or those you know. Lingering feelings of anxiety or discomfort manifest is a myriad of ways. For people in near death car accidents, some will never drive again, some will always blame the type of vehicle they were in, some will have no identifiable sequelae. But all of them will tense up a little when they pass that spot or another car comes at them in a similar fashion.

 

[HopefulSlav]

Almost all OB/GYN's in my area are guys.

 

[theWhat]

The terminology gets complicated. The point is to to understand the person rather than worry too much about precise terms. You can be male, but are you a man necessarily? What defines such things?

I don't think it is this cut and dried. Touchpause named her own preference. She is unable to receive a pelvic exam from a man due to personal conflicts. There is nothing wrong with this. I'd hope for something at some point to give her closure on her experience such that day to day (year to year? Whatever) occurrences are not interfered with based on a tragic incident. But it isn't for us to tell someone when trauma and its manifestations are or are not appropriate. Some women overcome hurdles associated with assault and do not have these hang ups. Some have different hang ups (avoidance of locations or activities rather than situations). It is all relative. When she says "unable" she is describing a trigger for discomfort associated with the event. Maybe a very overtly homosexual man or a transgendered man wouldn't trigger the feelings. Maybe they would. Maybe a trans woman would as well(or would for another woman who had gone through this).

Try to put yourself in this position or think of terrible things that have happened to you or those you know. Lingering feelings of anxiety or discomfort manifest is a myriad of ways. For people in near death car accidents, some will never drive again, some will always blame the type of vehicle they were in, some will have no identifiable sequelae. But all of them will tense up a little when they pass that spot or another car comes at them in a similar fashion.

This. You really can't speculate about these things, it's up to the patient.

 

[MedPR]

The terminology gets complicated. The point is to to understand the person rather than worry too much about precise terms. You can be male, but are you a man necessarily? What defines such things?

I don't think it is this cut and dried. Touchpause named her own preference. She is unable to receive a pelvic exam from a man due to personal conflicts. There is nothing wrong with this. I'd hope for something at some point to give her closure on her experience such that day to day (year to year? Whatever) occurrences are not interfered with based on a tragic incident. But it isn't for us to tell someone when trauma and its manifestations are or are not appropriate. Some women overcome hurdles associated with assault and do not have these hang ups. Some have different hang ups (avoidance of locations or activities rather than situations). It is all relative. When she says "unable" she is describing a trigger for discomfort associated with the event. Maybe a very overtly homosexual man or a transgendered man wouldn't trigger the feelings. Maybe they would. Maybe a trans woman would as well(or would for another woman who had gone through this).

Try to put yourself in this position or think of terrible things that have happened to you or those you know. Lingering feelings of anxiety or discomfort manifest is a myriad of ways. For people in near death car accidents, some will never drive again, some will always blame the type of vehicle they were in, some will have no identifiable sequelae. But all of them will tense up a little when they pass that spot or another car comes at them in a similar fashion.

Well that's exactly what I'm curious about now. Is it a strictly heterosexual male male (preference, gender, sex) aversion?

 

[touchpause13]

This is only tangentially related, and I bring it up only because someone in this thread has identified thesmelf (on SDN) as queer gendered (i'm not using it as a slang for homosexual, so don't ban me mods). If a woman who identifies as queer is assaulted by a man, and then became untrusting of all men, would that queer woman be able to have a gyn exam performed by a queer gendered man? 100% serious.

Edit: I personally think gender is gender, regardless of what you personally identify with, but people on SDN have argued that you can essentially pick your gender as gender isn't defined by anatomical parts.

Fyi I'm not genderquer I'm just queer. And I don't actually kno if I cud handle a gay man or a transperson giving me a pelvic exam... I'm more trusting of ppl in the queer community in general so maybe I cud? And I'm not untrusting of all men, lucky for me I'm able to have a healthy sexual relation with a man

 

[SpecterGT260]

Well that's exactly what I'm curious about now. Is it a strictly heterosexual male male (preference, gender, sex) aversion?

That's what I'm getting at. Maybe it is. The girl right next to her who is nearly identical via everything discussed here may have different aversions.

I don't want to keep the focus on a poster here, however. I'd suggest PMing her as I suspect she is very happy to discuss gender issues with people with valid interest. But perhaps not her own story so..... Don't be surprised if you get a "none ya business" back 🙂

Basically the right answer is "all of the above". People can be predicted, but that doesn't mean that they are cookie cutters.


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[SpecterGT260]

Fyi I'm not genderquer I'm just queer. And I don't actually kno if I cud handle a gay man or a transperson giving me a pelvic exam... I'm more trusting of ppl in the queer community in general so maybe I cud? And I'm not untrusting of all men, lucky for me I'm able to have a healthy sexual relation with a man

You're using this term (queer) in a way that is new to me then. Bi?

This is what frustrates me with this topic. Incredibly hard to follow even if you know the rules I understand the want for Un-impeded self identification but standardization would help us all out 😀


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[touchpause13]

You're using this term (queer) in a way that is new to me then. Bi?

This is what frustrates me with this topic. Incredibly hard to follow even if you know the rules I understand the want for Un-impeded self identification but standardization would help us all out 😀


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Queer is pretty standard in an academic sense, queer theory is a whole academic field. Its basically just an umbrella term for everything that doesn't quite fit into the standard heterosexual mold. I have a professor who identifies as queer who is only sexually interested in men and is married to a man, but does not want children. Its a pretty broad freakin term and allows me to explain that I am not straight without having to explixtly talk about my sex life.

 

[touchpause13]

That's what I'm getting at. Maybe it is. The girl right next to her who is nearly identical via everything discussed here may have different aversions.

I don't want to keep the focus on a poster here, however. I'd suggest PMing her as I suspect she is very happy to discuss gender issues with people with valid interest. But perhaps not her own story so..... Don't be surprised if you get a "none ya business" back 🙂

Basically the right answer is "all of the above". People can be predicted, but that doesn't mean that they are cookie cutters.


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Pretty much hit the nail on the head here

 

[SpecterGT260]

without having to explixtly talk about my sex life.

Noted. Didn't mean to pry. Even though I said as much to PR it is easy to get swept up in questions.


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[touchpause13]

Basic homo-terms if anyone is interested 😉
http://rainbowcenter.uconn.edu/index.php/queeru/terms/

 

[MedPR]

You're using this term (queer) in a way that is new to me then. Bi?

This is what frustrates me with this topic. Incredibly hard to follow even if you know the rules I understand the want for Un-impeded self identification but standardization would help us all out 😀


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I thought I knew the rules. Clearly I don't. Ugh I hate thinking I know something only to read a sentence that proves I know nothing.

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[touchpause13]

Noted. Didn't mean to pry. Even though I said as much to PR it is easy to get swept up in questions.


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I really don't mind too much. I realize most ppl on here don't have a lot of contact with ppl in the lgbtqqialphabet soup community so I'm glad to be a reasourse and answer questions as long as its respectiful 🙂

For the record I suppose bi would be more along the way I wud describe myself... I just hate how much baggage comes along with the label.

 

[kgpremed11]

If you are premed then yes I think it's pretty unreasonable. This isn't a sexual act, by any stretch of the imagination. Being a doctor necessarily involves getting rid of a lot of the cultural modesty and taboo, and you are going to be examining every orifice of many a patient. You won't be turned on, there will be nothing purient, it's all necessary and you have to be able to get comfortable with it. You will be examining people, and it won't be "penetration by a stranger". If you equate general examination with sexual assault, I really don't see how you are going to be a doctor. We all do many speculum exams, DREs, penile and testicular exams during med school and training. Sure you need to be sensitive if people's assault history, but if you view the examination itself as a form of assault, that's problematic.

Getting back to the original question, I would never do ob/gyn . As touchpause demonstrates, there are just too many women who have an over inflated victim mentality. The last thing an ob/gyn feel is arousal when hes examining you. I can imagine that that the male MS3's learn a lot less than the females on the same rotation simply because female patients don't want them in the room. The Societal stigma that every man is a pervert is promoted way too much in this country, this is due in no small part to the rise of feminist culture. Im a guy, but has anyone here ever watched lifetime? 90% of the movies are about rape or spousal abuse, the other 10% are about revenge.

Touchpause situation is a unique one, but I have had conversations with women who refuse to see ob's simply because they are men.

Compared to the amount of women who are victimized, the amount that lie is so so so much smaller.

Most cases are pretty much his word, vs her word. But of course, with the way the justice syste treats men in rape cases, he guilty until proven innocent.

 

[touchpause13]

Getting back to the original question, I would never do ob/gyn . As touchpause demonstrates, there are just too many women who have an over inflated victim mentality. The last thing an ob/gyn feel is arousal when hes examining you. I can imagine that that the male MS3's learn a lot less than the females on the same rotation simply because female patients don't want them in the room. The Societal stigma that every man is a pervert is promoted way too much in this country, this is due in no small part to the rise of feminist culture. Im a guy, but has anyone here ever watched lifetime? 90% of the movies are about rape or spousal abuse, the other 10% are about revenge.






Most cases are pretty much his word, vs her word. But of course, with the way the justice syste treats men in rape cases, he guilty until proven innocent.

Are u guys still gonna argue that this douchecanoe isn't troling?

 

[kgpremed11]

Are u guys still gonna argue that this douchecanoe isn't troling?

What did I say, that's trolling? Please explain. Just because you don't like my opinion doesn't mean i'm trolling.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Are u guys still gonna argue that this douchecanoe isn't troling?

Ignorant. Trolls know they are wrong.

His last statement is correct, however. But over inflated victim mentality? 🙄

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[Winged Scapula]

Please keep the discussion civil. You can disagree without calling each other names. Use the Report Post function if you find a user is in violation of the Terms of Service.

 

[kgpremed11]

Are u guys still gonna argue that this douchecanoe isn't troling?

😕

 

[touchpause13]

saying a victim of sexual assualt is has a "victim mentality" is beyond offensive

 

[KnuxNole]

I was confused because you called him a troll when he said he didn't want to work in a field with all women, which makes sense for some. Even women complain that they don't like to be around other females strictly...trust me, they don't stop venting about it 😛

 

[Wilf]

Are u guys still gonna argue that this douchecanoe isn't troling?

This is pathetic. Sorry but it is.

 

[kgpremed11]

saying a victim of sexual assualt is has a "victim mentality" is beyond offensive

Did you even read the whole post? Lots of women in general think men are out to get them. And this stigma is perpetuated by the rise of feminist culture. There summed it up for you.

 

[touchpause13]

I called him a troll because his posts are full of sexism

 

[touchpause13]

Don't play like u didn't call me out by name kg

 

[kgpremed11]

Don't play like u didn't call me out by name kg

I wasn't strictly talking about you. I apoligize because I really can't relate to what you have been through, I was just talking about a problem within american culture.

 

[touchpause13]

I wasn't strictly talking about you. I apoligize because I really can't relate to what you have been through, I was just talking about a problem within american culture.

Clearly.

 

[MedPR]

Getting back to the original question, I would never do ob/gyn . As touchpause demonstrates, there are just too many women who have an over inflated victim mentality. The last thing an ob/gyn feel is arousal when hes examining you. I can imagine that that the male MS3's learn a lot less than the females on the same rotation simply because female patients don't want them in the room. The Societal stigma that every man is a pervert is promoted way too much in this country, this is due in no small part to the rise of feminist culture. Im a guy, but has anyone here ever watched lifetime? 90% of the movies are about rape or spousal abuse, the other 10% are about revenge.

Touchpause situation is a unique one, but I have had conversations with women who refuse to see ob's simply because they are men.

Most cases are pretty much his word, vs her word. But of course, with the way the justice syste treats men in rape cases, he guilty until proven innocent.

👍
I like women as much as the next hetero guy (and homo girl), but I highly doubt I will experience any kind of arousal on my ob/gyn rotation.. I'm actually dreading it more than every other clerkship.

Are u guys still gonna argue that this douchecanoe isn't troling?

douchecanoe is a good term. First time I've seen it

 

[Sidereum]

Getting back to the original question, I would never do ob/gyn . As touchpause demonstrates, there are just too many women who have an over inflated victim mentality. The last thing an ob/gyn feel is arousal when hes examining you. I can imagine that that the male MS3's learn a lot less than the females on the same rotation simply because female patients don't want them in the room. The Societal stigma that every man is a pervert is promoted way too much in this country, this is due in no small part to the rise of feminist culture. Im a guy, but has anyone here ever watched lifetime? 90% of the movies are about rape or spousal abuse, the other 10% are about revenge.

Touchpause situation is a unique one, but I have had conversations with women who refuse to see ob's simply because they are men.






Most cases are pretty much his word, vs her word. But of course, with the way the justice syste treats men in rape cases, he guilty until proven innocent.

While I can agree that this stigma is often unfair towards men, I really don't think it has anything to do with the rise in feminist (a criminally misused term nowadays, with negative connotations that it does not deserve) culture, but more to do with the perceived (and often real) power that men tend to have over women. Because of the differences in male anatomy, physiology, and ESPECIALLY psychology, women are simply more at risk of sexual assault from men than men are from women. That, I believe, is a valid basis for a rational fear.

Not that I'm saying that the majority, or even a significant minority, of men will ever commit a sexual crime; that is obviously not the case! But whether or not the stigma is fair or deserved, it is there, and I imagine has existed long before recent times.

 

[touchpause13]

While I can agree that this stigma is often unfair towards men, I really don't think it has anything to do with the rise in feminist (a criminally misused term nowadays, with negative connotations that it does not deserve) culture, but more to do with the perceived (and often real) power that men tend to have over women. Because of the differences in male anatomy, physiology, and ESPECIALLY psychology, women are simply more at risk of sexual assault from men than men are from women. That, I believe, is a valid basis for a rational fear.

Not that I'm saying that the majority, or even a significant minority, of men will ever commit a sexual crime; that is obviously not the case! But whether or not the stigma is fair or deserved, it is there, and I imagine has existed long before recent times.

Agreed. I hate the all men are rapists narrative and that's one thing I as a feminist try to fight against. But while intellectually I know this... the fear is very much real when I'm alone and in a comprising position with a men I don't know

 

[Law2Doc]

... the fear is very much real when I'm alone and in a comprising position with a men I don't know

But how would that be different if you were older and needed a colonoscopy, or needed a breast lump biopsy, or were having a dermatologist look at a mole in an immodest location? Are you saying that because of your history you want to deal exclusively with women in all these roles? And if you get this choice, should a male patient be able to choose not to have a gay or female urologist, or a racist person choose not to have any black doctors or nurses because of past traumatic experiences? Or a family member of a 911 victim choose not to have any arab doctors? You yourself suggested that we are talking about a sizable percentage of the population that shows up with a traumatic history. In fact, we all come to the doctor with some history, some more traumatic than others, but there are certainly limits to how much choice within the system is reasonable when it involves discriminating against a protected class. I guess I'd have less problems with your statements if you said you couldn't get a pelvic exam from anyone, but once you made it gender specific, I think this creates avenues of abuse. And the "penetration by a stranger" comment really rubbed me the wrong way, because I think it characterizes what doctors in all specialties do daily in a dirty offensive way which simply isn't the case. But I think it's more problematic when this viewpoint comes from someone going into the premed field. I think you should do whatever you need to to feel comfortable in your own life, but when you weigh in on a thread, know that this approach is very damaging to healthcare.

 

[SpecterGT260]

But how would that be different if you were older and needed a colonoscopy, or needed a breast lump biopsy, or were having a dermatologist look at a mole in an immodest location? Are you saying that because of your history you want to deal exclusively with women in all these roles? And if you get this choice, should a male patient be able to choose not to have a gay or female urologist, or a racist person choose not to have any black doctors or nurses because of past traumatic experiences? Or a family member of a 911 victim choose not to have any arab doctors? You yourself suggested that we are talking about a sizable percentage of the population that shows up with a traumatic history. In fact, we all come to the doctor with some history, some more traumatic than others, but there are certainly limits to how much choice within the system is reasonable when it involves discriminating against a protected class. I guess I'd have less problems with your statements if you said you couldn't get a pelvic exam from anyone, but once you made it gender specific, I think this creates avenues of abuse. And the "penetration by a stranger" comment really rubbed me the wrong way, because I think it characterizes what doctors in all specialties do daily in a dirty offensive way which simply isn't the case. But I think it's more problematic when this viewpoint comes from someone going into the premed field. I think you should do whatever you need to to feel comfortable in your own life, but when you weigh in on a thread, know that this approach is very damaging to healthcare.

Why are you fighting this? I've yet to find someone as obstinate on these issues as myself and even I see no issue here.

She makes personal decisions regarding her care in ways that best fit her while placing no burden on anyone else. Many women request female doctors for ANY compromising exam sans any reason at all. Why does having a reason suddenly make it not OK? My hospital has no problem scheduling for specific doctor to accommodate patients. You may wait another week to be seen in some cases but whatever.

Her input in the thread was quite fair, from my perspective. She gave personal info AND general, and only delved deeper when specifically asked. You're exaggerating the harm her statements pose.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile

 

[touchpause13]

But how would that be different if you were older and needed a colonoscopy, or needed a breast lump biopsy, or were having a dermatologist look at a mole in an immodest location? Are you saying that because of your history you want to deal exclusively with women in all these roles? And if you get this choice, should a male patient be able to choose not to have a gay or female urologist, or a racist person choose not to have any black doctors or nurses because of past traumatic experiences? Or a family member of a 911 victim choose not to have any arab doctors? You yourself suggested that we are talking about a sizable percentage of the population that shows up with a traumatic history. In fact, we all come to the doctor with some history, some more traumatic than others, but there are certainly limits to how much choice within the system is reasonable when it involves discriminating against a protected class. I guess I'd have less problems with your statements if you said you couldn't get a pelvic exam from anyone, but once you made it gender specific, I think this creates avenues of abuse. And the "penetration by a stranger" comment really rubbed me the wrong way, because I think it characterizes what doctors in all specialties do daily in a dirty offensive way which simply isn't the case. But I think it's more problematic when this viewpoint comes from someone going into the premed field. I think you should do whatever you need to to feel comfortable in your own life, but when

you weigh in on a thread, know that this approach is very damaging to healthcare.

I'm beginning to think u have a personal problem with me. You've done nothing but twist my words and make me seem like the bad guy.all I've talked about is a personal healthcare decision I've made. I have every right to make the healthcare decisions I feel are right for me. No provider has an obligation to be seen by ever possible patient. And what's up with ur slippery slope arguement? Dermatologists? I've only mentioned one specific situation why are u blowing it out of proportion?

 

[theWhat]

But how would that be different if you were older and needed a colonoscopy, or needed a breast lump biopsy, or were having a dermatologist look at a mole in an immodest location? Are you saying that because of your history you want to deal exclusively with women in all these roles? And if you get this choice, should a male patient be able to choose not to have a gay or female urologist, or a racist person choose not to have any black doctors or nurses because of past traumatic experiences? Or a family member of a 911 victim choose not to have any arab doctors? You yourself suggested that we are talking about a sizable percentage of the population that shows up with a traumatic history. In fact, we all come to the doctor with some history, some more traumatic than others, but there are certainly limits to how much choice within the system is reasonable when it involves discriminating against a protected class. I guess I'd have less problems with your statements if you said you couldn't get a pelvic exam from anyone, but once you made it gender specific, I think this creates avenues of abuse. And the "penetration by a stranger" comment really rubbed me the wrong way, because I think it characterizes what doctors in all specialties do daily in a dirty offensive way which simply isn't the case. But I think it's more problematic when this viewpoint comes from someone going into the premed field. I think you should do whatever you need to to feel comfortable in your own life, but when you weigh in on a thread, know that this approach is very damaging to healthcare.

If anything, shaming a patient for making personal choices regarding their health and wellbeing is damaging to healthcare. Why does a patient owe it to a provider to pick them? Sounds like victim blaming to me.

 

[touchpause13]

👍 to

If anything, shaming a patient for making personal choices regarding their health and wellbeing is damaging to healthcare. Why does a patient owe it to a provider to pick them? Sounds like victim blaming to me.