Can a man be an OB/GYN? Should he?

[Law2Doc]

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Why are you fighting this? I've yet to find someone as obstinate on these issues as myself and even I see no issue here.

She makes personal decisions regarding her care in ways that best fit her while placing no burden on anyone else. Many women request female doctors for ANY compromising exam sans any reason at all. Why does having a reason suddenly make it not OK? My hospital has no problem scheduling for specific doctor to accommodate patients. You may wait another week to be seen in some cases but whatever.

Her input in the thread was quite fair, from my perspective. She gave personal info AND general, and only delved deeper when specifically asked. You're exaggerating the harm her statements pose.

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I didn't mean to go off on this particular poster, but the "penetrated by a stranger" wording I found very troubling. She sort of became the poster child on this thread for patients choosing not to be seen by male doctors/trainees, which is here my issue lies, not so much with her or her personal trauma.

The best thing my med school ever did was simply tell patients in no uncertain terms "sorry this is a teaching hospital, it is our policy that you will get seen by whomever we send into the room, otherwise go elsewhere". (most didnt). I've heard far too many stories of doctors at other programs who escaped learning how to do basic medical procedures and exams because programs let their patients choose not to be seen by a male, a student, someone of different race or ethnicity, etc. As someone in the midst of my training I'm sensitive to this, and think that, sure, while many people have history which might make it difficult to have certain body parts examined, I think when you expand it to certain body parts by certain genders (or races, nationalities, orientations) it's a slippery slope. You can't say, sure men should be able to go into any specialty, but they aren't going to examine me or another 1/6 of women (or more, give or take underreporting) who are similarly situated. I'm not sure a premed, who is going to be "imposing" on patients in a similar manner shortly, can appropriately have this attitude. But whatever. If you guys think we should allow men to be OBGYNs but only get to do a small fraction of procedures and exams during their training because patient comfort and funky wiring outweighs trainees actually seeing many patients, so be it. I think when some of you get far enough in your clinical training and realize that the only way you get good at things is by doing a lot of them, you might change your tunes. Patients to a point can choose their doctors, but often legitimate choices on their face can have illegitimate results, shutting whole groups of people out of adequate training or professional success.

As a profession it's probably a good idea to let people have a choice but also let them know that as a profession and as professionals we don't condone making choices on gender, racial, national grounds. At any rate sorry for making that particular poster the poster child for this, but her position made a pretty good lightening rod for this.

 

[touchpause13]

So you seriously think no patient should be able to chose a doc based on gender regardless of reason? And that a doctors need to learn outweighs individual patient comfort and safety?

 

[SpecterGT260]

So you seriously think no patient should be able to chose a doc based on gender regardless of reason? And that a doctors need to learn outweighs individual patient comfort and safety?

I can see his point as well. I think he made it more succinctly this time.

You attempt to equate patient comfort and safety here. These aren't the same in this case. An uncomfortable patient is not a patient in danger, and yes the need to train physicians will often outweigh the preferences of the individual.

In cases like yours, I believe you have the right to choose your doctor. You ALSO have the responsibility to not be a burden due to your choice. A person's priorities are their own and it is his or her responsibility to make the personal sacrifices necessary in order to hold to personal priorities. I.e. don't go into a teaching hospital and demand special treatment. That isn't what that facility is for nor is that what such a facility is funded for (teaching hospitals get government funds for the express purpose of training physicians, NOT for the purpose of providing cheap care. That is incidental and incentive for patients to be seen by students and residents).

I think laws perspective is colored by being a resident and dealing with patient demands as such. In a nutshell, I don't think you are at all wrong for holding your preference, but I do think you have potential DO wrong with that preference.

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[touchpause13]

Well obviously I'm not going to walk into a teaching hospital or even an emergency room and demand to only been treated by women or something like that. I respect a teaching hospitals right to put those sorts of caveats on their patients and I personally just wouldn't go there if I had another option.
Fyi I was meaning psychological safety sorry I shud have specified that

I'm really trying to see law's point but where I get lost I don't quite understand what threat a person like me poses by not seeing a male doc for one particular procedure. I'm not telling other women not to see male docs, I'm willing to wait longer to see a female doc, I get treatment for my ptsd and depression. The only thing I was attempting to do here in telling my story was to bring a valid reason why someone would chose to see a female doc in this case to the table. My hope was that ppl on this thread may learn a bit more the complicated issues surrounding sexual assualt victims and womens healthcare which I believe is very important for anyone thinking about going into ob/gyn.


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[SpecterGT260]

Well obviously I'm not going to walk into a teaching hospital or even an emergency room and demand to only been treated by women or something like that. I respect a teaching hospitals right to put those sorts of caveats on their patients and I personally just wouldn't go there if I had another option.
Fyi I was meaning psychological safety sorry I shud have specified that

I'm really trying to see law's point but where I get lost I don't quite understand what threat a person like me poses by not seeing a male doc for one particular procedure. I'm not telling other women not to see male docs, I'm willing to wait longer to see a female doc, I get treatment for my ptsd and depression. The only thing I was attempting to do here in telling my story was to bring a valid reason why someone would chose to see a female doc in this case to the table. My hope was that ppl on this thread may learn a bit more the complicated issues surrounding sexual assualt victims and womens healthcare which I believe is very important for anyone thinking about going into ob/gyn.


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I suspect he is just irritated by patients who do this. As a resident I am sure he sees many patients who make demands that aren't a part of the deal.

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[touchpause13]

That's fair to be irraitated especially in a teaching hospital. What doesn't seem so fair is to go off on a random on the interwebs because of it. I've never even been to a teaching hospital 😕

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[SpecterGT260]

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[Geebeejay]

I think this can be a slippery slope, and it should be noted the fine line between entitlement and necessity. SA patient that requires a pelvic for evidence collection? Might want to have a female do that one even if a male is the primary provider. Entitled patient who "prefers" a female to perform a medical examination? Sure, but she can wait until the female physicians are done seeing all of their patients until she gets her exam.

Some religious/cultural preferences cause some problems sometimes too. I've had patients that refuse to undress out of their entire hijabs (sorry if this is the wrong term) out of fear, and refuse to be in the same room alone with a male physician let alone receive a pelvic exam from him. I think it's safe to say that many of these women would walk out and die from ruptured ectopics before they relinquish their religious and cultural preferences.

 

[KnuxNole]

Really? I think if they were in an obstetric emergency, and the only physicians there were males, they would stay instead of travel 30 mins to find a hospital with one female doctor. Same thing with a gyn emergency, and the only docs available were male GYNs....

It'd be really strange if a woman is about to give birth, but doesn't want to because all the doctors are males.

 

[Geebeejay]

Really? I think if they were in an obstetric emergency, and the only physicians there were males, they would stay instead of travel 30 mins to find a hospital with one female doctor. Same thing with a gyn emergency, and the only docs available were male GYNs....

It'd be really strange if a woman is about to give birth, but doesn't want to because all the doctors are males.

Sometimes people have different priorities, and sometimes they really don't understand that they are in an obstetric emergency, or what this emergency really means. As well as you might try to convey the medical situation they are in, they might only be focusing on the gender issue. A language/cultural/intellect barrier might be involved too. According to me, its ridiculous - but then again, there are a lot of things in this world that I think are ridiculous.

 

[theWhat]

Really? I think if they were in an obstetric emergency, and the only physicians there were males, they would stay instead of travel 30 mins to find a hospital with one female doctor. Same thing with a gyn emergency, and the only docs available were male GYNs....

It'd be really strange if a woman is about to give birth, but doesn't want to because all the doctors are males.

As far as I have seen (in my limited experience) patients in an emergency will usually take what they can get if it is an emergency. I think the conversation in this thread was more centered around choosing a provider in the first place for outpatient appointments. But yes, in an emergency situation clearly there is no choice.

 

[Law2Doc]

...
I'm really trying to see law's point but where I get lost I don't quite understand what threat a person like me poses by not seeing a male doc for one particular procedure...

it's not one procedure. You yourself said at least 1/6 if all women have traumatic histories, probably more due to underreporting. And there are many many medical procedures that are immodest and invasive to those with certain sensibilities (colonoscopies, DREs, etc). Like I said, there are many med students and residents who end up poorly trained because of patient preferences, not only in terms of gender, but race and nationality as well. And this extends to impact peoples careers, often probably illegally in that in most cases we are talking about federally funded hospitals or medicare reimbursed or federally subsidized physicians, if for example a person decides they dont want to ever be seen by a doctor of a certain gender, race, national origin. As a profession this is really something that perhaps is " allowed" but probably should not be "condoned".
(FWIW, If a patient is paying their bill with Medicare, Medicaid or otherwise is federally subsidized (ie most patients these days), then yeah, they probably shouldn't legally have the right to choose a doctor on gender, racial or national origin grounds under Title VII of federal law.)

and yes, to the prior couple of posters, people do make these decisions in the ER all the time, only wanting to be seen by a certain gender, race, someone of attending level training, and so on. Someone in bad shape always seems to find a way to stay sexist, racist, nationalist, etc.

 

[45408]

I would have given OB/gyn serious thought if I weren't a guy. I see no problem with men who go into the field - more power to them - but I just didn't want to deal with the issues that men in this field face these days. Too bad.

 

[AsianPersuasion]

I'm a male and I'm only a pre med but honestly, I'm VERY interested in OB/GYN. I really enjoy the maternal-fetal medicine aspect of it more though and the reconstructions. I had a really good experience when I was job shadowing. But the lifestyle is rather awful IMO....don't know yet, we'll see how it goes. at this point it's the MCAT I have to tackle first 🙂

 

[Chir0nex]

So my Dad is an OBGYN and as an M1 I have had many talks with him about going into the field. The issue of having patients is not a really a problem. There is a subset (not sure how large, but significant in any case) of women who would prefer a male OBGyn over a female, and an even larger group that does not care as much about gender as quality of the doctor. IMO, if you are a good doctor and can establish a relationship with the patient you will gain a reputation for quality and have enough patients. The larger issue for the specialty is the myriad of legal issues that can arise if anything goes wrong in a case. But that is a function of having to deal with 2 patients with imperfect information and a highly emotionally charged decisions between well being of a mother and her baby, nothing to do with the gender.

Now, that being said, it is quite possible that as a resident you will be the only male in the specialty (my dad's hospital currently has no male residents). This has the upside of making it easier to get in (gender diversity!), but also making you stand out. Everyone will know who you are, and thus your mistakes and successes will be far more prominent in the department. For some people that is ok, but for others, who wish to stay more in the background, it can be a major issue.

 

[circulus vitios]

I think it's safe to say that many of these women would walk out and die from ruptured ectopics before they relinquish their religious and cultural preferences.

Not my problem.

 

[HughMyron]

I would have given OB/gyn serious thought if I weren't a guy. I see no problem with men who go into the field - more power to them - but I just didn't want to deal with the issues that men in this field face these days. Too bad.

If you don't mind us asking, can you go into a bit more detail about these issues?

 

[touchpause13]

If you don't mind us asking, can you go into a bit more detail about these issues?

My understanding is that the major issues with the field are gender neutral and revolve around malpractice, high laws for insurance etc. And if you are interested in abortion care there is also of myriad of difficulties you (and your family) will probably face.

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[45408]

If you don't mind us asking, can you go into a bit more detail about these issues?

They've already been mentioned, but basically the idea that there's something weird/wrong with a man who wants to do OB/gyn. I don't like that there's a significant portion of the patient population that wouldn't want to see you just because you're a man. I respect their choice, but that would be frustrating on a professional level.

Plus other things that aren't gender specific, like abortion (which I oppose), and the fact that I like treating male patients as well. That's one reason why I like general surgery - I have a good variety of male/female patients, young and old, sick and healthy.

 

[Bacchus]

OMG... I did a pap and bimanual today.

 

[Wilf]

OMG... I did a pap and bimanual today.

You didn't do a bunch of them in third year?

 

[Bacchus]

You didn't do a bunch of them in third year?

I was being sarcastic.

 

[link2swim06]

Too much estrogen in OB. I am talking about the residents/attendings, not the patients.

Everyone always seems pissed off and in a bad mood. Being a male, I would need a large amount of exogenous hormones to be on their level and commiserate in misery.

The specialty is a decent mix of clinic/surgery/etc. The people of OB are the most malignant of any rotation yet. They eat their young and **** rolls downhill. Except the MFMs, everyone of them was chill (but who wants to be in residency for that long).

Therefore, OP if I was a man, women, or monkey I would not pick OB.

 

[HughMyron]

They've already been mentioned, but basically the idea that there's something weird/wrong with a man who wants to do OB/gyn. I don't like that there's a significant portion of the patient population that wouldn't want to see you just because you're a man. I respect their choice, but that would be frustrating on a professional level.

Plus other things that aren't gender specific, like abortion (which I oppose), and the fact that I like treating male patients as well. That's one reason why I like general surgery - I have a good variety of male/female patients, young and old, sick and healthy.

Oh, that stuff.

I thought you'd say something like "male OB/GYNs get sued 35% more often."

 

[SpecterGT260]

Oh, that stuff.

I thought you'd say something like "male OB/GYNs get sued 35% more often."

I don't know about suits but I saw a full spread of data on use of chaperones which was pretty interesting.

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[Paramedoc]

As a female patient, I prefer a female GYN, but I wouldn't mind a male OB at the hospital at all.

As a female student, I have a strong interest in Urology, which is a male-dominated specialty, but I think I could do a lot for my patients, especially peds who suffer from bed wetting and women who suffer from incontinence due to aging or childbirth... But then that draws me back to internal medicine.

The point is, whatever you find interesting and plays to your strengths. A male doctor who is good at putting patients at ease and loves babies might think the risk of less money is worth it because he gets to do something he loves. I admire that kind of passion and it would probably make me get over my bias against male OB/GYNs that was his deal.

 

[HughMyron]

As a female patient, I prefer a female GYN, but I wouldn't mind a male OB at the hospital at all.

As a female student, I have a strong interest in Urology, which is a male-dominated specialty, but I think I could do a lot for my patients, especially peds who suffer from bed wetting and women who suffer from incontinence due to aging or childbirth... But then that draws me back to internal medicine.

The point is, whatever you find interesting and plays to your strengths. A male doctor who is good at putting patients at ease and loves babies might think the risk of less money is worth it because he gets to do something he loves. I admire that kind of passion and it would probably make me get over my bias against male OB/GYNs that was his deal.

Eh, I think the consensus is that a man wouldn't go into OB/GYN cause he likes the job. He'd probably only do it as a gateway to fellowships in stuff like MFM, REI, or Gynonc.

 

[Siggy]

Feminism means different things to different people. I consider myself a feminist, but all I mean by that is I think women should be treated equally as men where possible.

Catholics are tainted by pedophile priests, conservatives are tainted by the neo-cons and tea baggers, and feminism is tainted by those that think that the solution is spelling "woman" "womyn" and that all men are the devil.

...sigh...
Womyn these days.

 

[touchpause13]

Uhhhhhh as a feminist I would never associate w/ ppl u spell woman with a y. They tend to be transphobic crazies

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[SpecterGT260]

Uhhhhhh as a feminist I would never associate w/ ppl u spell woman with a y. They tend to be transphobic crazies

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Exactly.

It's wimmenz.


Get it right

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[45408]

I'm partial to gyrlz.