can anything be done for those kicked out of residency

[turquoiseblue]

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I have seen many in my shoes who were kicked out of residency. Is there anything that can be done to salvage their careers?

Can there be reform to where they can get residency again? it is so difficult to obtain especially for those thrown out of another program.

What can be done for them? I think it is unfair for someone to go through medical school and get into training only to be kicked out never to get another chance again. I think that something should be done.

Anyone willing to cast in a stone toward this effort? Just think if it happened to you. It can happen to anyone.

Maybe there should be a special program for them so that they can get back into residency. Something is lacking in the system to allow a tragedy like this to occur. The number of residents ruined is in the 1000's. they spent 4 years of their lives studying hard to get an MD, some of them paying high tuition and heavily in debt.

I'm not making this personally about me, so please don't raise personal issues here, this post is regarding all of 'us' whose careers were completely stopped and ruined during our training years and refused to be trained by programs. it shows they take no concern in personal lives that were ruined and just want a fresh grad to take their place.

 

[atsai3]

What can be done for them? I think it is unfair for someone to go through medical school and get into training only to be kicked out never to get another chance again. I think that something should be done.

Why is this 'unfair'? There is a standard of quality for the training of physicians in the U.S., and if trainees don't meet that standard then they would be doing patients -- and the profession -- a favor by graciously falling on the knife and finding a different career.

Anyone willing to cast in a stone toward this effort? Just think if it happened to you. It can happen to anyone.

But it doesn't happen to anyone. It happens to trainees who don't meet a standard of quality for training.

I agree that medical education is an extremely expensive and time consuming investment (i.e., in one's future livelihood). Not everyone can make it through successfully. Quite likely there are many pre-medical students, medical students, and residents who overestimate their ability to perform -- and for them it is a wasted investment.

-AT.

 

[JackADeli]

I have seen many in my shoes who were kicked out of residency. Is there anything that can be done to salvage their careers?

Can there be reform to where they can get residency again? it is so difficult to obtain especially for those thrown out of another program.

What can be done for them? I think it is unfair for someone to go through medical school and get into training only to be kicked out never to get another chance again. I think that something should be done.

Anyone willing to cast in a stone toward this effort? Just think if it happened to you. It can happen to anyone.

Maybe there should be a special program for them so that they can get back into residency. Something is lacking in the system to allow a tragedy like this to occur. The number of residents ruined is in the 1000's. they spent 4 years of their lives studying hard to get an MD, some of them paying high tuition and heavily in debt.

I'm not making this personally about me, so please don't raise personal issues here, this post is regarding all of 'us' whose careers were completely stopped and ruined during our training years and refused to be trained by programs. it shows they take no concern in personal lives that were ruined and just want a fresh grad to take their place.

"Fairness" and social justice type approach is not what it is about. Your post suggests you are referring to victims that have had something done to them. If someone has been unfairly dismissed, their recourse is through an attorney.

However, medicine is an all or none game. The stakes are human lives of the sick. If a resident fails to meet standards to such a degree, it doesn't matter what years you put in before that or your loans. Physicians need to be very careful about letting a risky prospect have another bite at the sick/injured/etc... Their decision should have absolutely nothing to do with how many years you put in or what your debt burden is. It needs to be based on the patients first. I would say, second, it should be based on the new grads that have not burnt any bridges and are looking for a first chance before seconds are being handed out. In that category, you may have 100s of FMG/IMG/Island grads trying to get a first shot.

I agree with you, "it shows they take no concern in personal lives that were ruined and just want a fresh grad to take their place". But, it seems the ruining was done by the resident not the residency. I don't think they should be filling limited spots with recycled individuals, especially if the dismissal was based in sound reasoning. I appreciate the hurt and anger your post seems to imply. But in the end, it is not about the dismissed resident. I don't think it should be. I also think the greater injustice/unfairness would be to pass on new grads, with solid credentials, looking for a first shot.... in order to recycle someone that blew their shot.

 

[turquoiseblue]

Why is this 'unfair'? There is a standard of quality for the training of physicians in the U.S., and if trainees don't meet that standard then they would be doing patients -- and the profession -- a favor by graciously falling on the knife and finding a different career.

But it doesn't happen to anyone. It happens to trainees who don't meet a standard of quality for training.

I agree that medical education is an extremely expensive and time consuming investment (i.e., in one's future livelihood). Not everyone can make it through successfully. Quite likely there are many pre-medical students, medical students, and residents who overestimate their ability to perform -- and for them it is a wasted investment.

-AT.

i think that you think all this because you trust the system, but really it is not trustworthy. some PD's or nurses or other employees of the program really do have it in for others and want to detroy them no matter how hard they try or how good they do, whether it be prejudice, etc. some residents or nurses rat on other residents and try to ruin them lie about other residents to make them look worse than they really are and there are PD's that trust their judgement. programs can be biased. they are not perfect. there can be evil spirited people in the mix. not always but it can happen.

for example, i was in a program where i did nothing wrong and they even stated that in a letter, but they still wouldn't accommodate and let me finish the remaining 2 months after being sick for 2 months, so basically i have an incomplete year for nothing. i wasn't thrown out but just wasn't allowed to finish. i think that is unfair for their lack of accommodation.

 

[JackADeli]

...I'm not making this personally about me, so please don't raise personal issues here, this post is regarding all of 'us'...

...for example, i was in a program where i did nothing wrong...

Why not stick with your original claim of, "...I'm not making this personally about me...". If you truely believe in your innocence and the injustice of it all, you need an attorney. SDN is not going to solve your problem/s. As to prejudice, etc... they wouldn't rank or hire an individual to begin with if that were the case. I wish you the best of luck.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

for example, i was in a program where i did nothing wrong and they even stated that in a letter, but they still wouldn't accommodate and let me finish the remaining 2 months after being sick for 2 months, so basically i have an incomplete year for nothing. i wasn't thrown out but just wasn't allowed to finish. i think that is unfair for their lack of accommodation.

A quick read through your post history reveals that this is a very biased account of what happened...

You are beating a dead horse here.

 

[turquoiseblue]

A quick read through your post history reveals that this is a very biased account of what happened...

You are beating a dead horse here.[/QUO

that is exactly what happened. unbiased. im not the biased type. why would i lie about that?

 

[JackADeli]

...that is exactly what happened. unbiased. im not the biased type. why would i lie about that?

I don't know why you would lie or why someone might be in denial. But, just a brief review of your previous posts, looks like you have 16 months of residency. You posted 6 months categorical IM and 10 months prelim surgery. Just reviewing the first few posts in your history, I do not see you getting into a residency. If nothing else, you can get a license in some states and start practicing.

 

[turquoiseblue]

these residents shouldn't be thrown out so easily. it is training.

so if they can't be doctors, what should they do with their lives?
why can't they work as PA's at least?
why can't an MD without residency be considered as licensed so that they can work somehow maybe at a PA level? I know it would make the PA's mad but still there should be somewhere an MD should go if they can't get residency. why should they have to restart everything from scratch, redo school, and find a new field?

 

[Winged Scapula]

TB...

please do not start threads that ask the same questions you have asked many, many, if not dozens of times before.

It is a TOS violation to do so.

I recommend you review the multiple threads on this topic in which you and others have posted and have received excellent advice and thoughts on the subject.