Can doctors do everything that podiatrists do?

[theepodiatrist]

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And if the answer is yes, then I guess I'm asking if the podiatry as a distinct profession is really necessary/justified or if it only exist due to historical circumstances ??

I mean a doctor can't do what a dentist does but it seems to me like he can certainly do everything a podiatrists does.



I'm asking this in the medicine section rather than the podiatry one since it's [future] doctors' opinion that I want to hear.

 

[Pepe18]

A physician can do everything a podiatrist can do, but a podiatrist can't do everything a physician does.

It's mostly a historical thing. IMO, it's a historical thing that benefits podiatry students. The average MCAT/GPA for podiatry students is 494/3.3 vs 511/3.72 for US MDs (that is 29th percentile for all test takers for podiatry vs 84th percentile average for MD students). If podiatry and MD/DO merged, those extra med school spots would probably be filled by borderline MD/DO applicants. Plus, someone with a 494/3.3 would not likely do well enough in med school to match orthopedics.

Having separate podiatry school gives students who would not have the opportunity to do orthopedics the chance to do surgery. It's a good deal. In exchange, there are limitations in their licenses and they cannot switch to other specialties if they change their mind about liking feet.

 

[Weirdy]

I mean a doctor can't do what a dentist does but it seems to me like he can certainly do everything a podiatrists does.
I'm asking this in the medicine section rather than the podiatry one since it's [future] doctors' opinion that I want to hear.

A podiatrist would not be managing a patient's diabetes course.
Just like an IM specialist would not be performing a bunion procedure.

Both of them want to do what they are trained to do and go home.

Podiatrists do not have an unrestricted plenary license.

MD/DO do have an unrestricted plenary license.

An unrestricted plenary license does not mean you go and do what you are not trained to do.
You will not get surgical privileges to do so. They are bound by their training and specialty.

You sound like a troll OP. You could've read all of this by just searching or at least asking the DPM forums.

Believe it or not, we actually encourage people like you to consider MD/DO before going DPM instead of starting a flame war.

 

[theepodiatrist]

OK so doctors can do everything podiatrist can do.....but do podiatrists have the edge on the amount of knowledge that they have about the foot itself and about the conditions that affect it?

 

[Weirdy]

OK so doctors can do everything podiatrist can do.....but do podiatrists have the edge on the amount of knowledge that they have about the foot itself and about the conditions that affect it?

Mate I'm trying to be nice to you here.....go back and read what I typed.
They can do what they were specifically trained to do.
If you were a family medicine guy, you would not be able to, (and probably would not want to) do a Lapidus or TMA.
Likewise, a DPM could not and would not want to medically manage blood clotting medications or do a total knee.

Your separate follow up question: an IM or Plastics would know much much more in their respective fields than I do even if we rotate through their department for off-service or learn a base level of knowledge in school. Same with DPM regarding the foot and ankle.

More training + more specialization in that area usually means a greater amount of knowledge.

 

[nimbus]

I work with podiatrists all the time. I have no idea what they are doing down there.

 

[allantois]

No one wants to work on the feet, hence podiatry

 

[DexterMorganSK]

OK so doctors can do everything podiatrist can do.....but do podiatrists have the edge on the amount of knowledge that they have about the foot itself and about the conditions that affect it?

Yes.

 

[longhaul3]

OK so doctors can do everything podiatrist can do.....but do podiatrists have the edge on the amount of knowledge that they have about the foot itself and about the conditions that affect it?

Any competent podiatrist would know way more about feet than any non-ortho physician. I definitely can't name all the tarsal bones and I don't care that I can't.

 

[theepodiatrist]

I work with podiatrists all the time. I have no idea what they are doing down there.

And you are what exactly? 🙂

 

[de Ribas]

A physician can do everything a podiatrist can do, but a podiatrist can't do everything a physician does.

It's mostly a historical thing. IMO, it's a historical thing that benefits podiatry students. The average MCAT/GPA for podiatry students is 494/3.3 vs 511/3.72 for US MDs (that is 29th percentile for all test takers for podiatry vs 84th percentile average for MD students). If podiatry and MD/DO merged, those extra med school spots would probably be filled by borderline MD/DO applicants. Plus, someone with a 494/3.3 would not likely do well enough in med school to match orthopedics.

Having separate podiatry school gives students who would not have the opportunity to do orthopedics the chance to do surgery. It's a good deal. In exchange, there are limitations in their licenses and they cannot switch to other specialties if they change their mind about liking feet.

MD and DO schools accept more (by number) students with these low stats. There are thousands of IMGs who either never took MCAT or their MCAT was very low to get into any US school. There are way more practicing MDs and DOs than DPMs that had low undergrad stats.

 

[nimbus]

And you are what exactly? 🙂

I’m an anesthesiologist.

 

[slowthai]

No one wants to work on the feet, hence podiatry

Someone remind me, is there a specialty in orthopaedics that is dedicated to the feet? I can't remember...I think it has the words foot and ankle in it. Hmmm, I'm not sure...

 

[Pepe18]

MD and DO schools accept more (by number) students with these low stats. There are thousands of IMGs who either never took MCAT or their MCAT was very low to get into any US school. There are way more practicing MDs and DOs than DPMs that had low undergrad stats.

There is no reason to get into this. However, 494 MCAT is in the bottom 0.4% of MD matriculants, so 100 people get into MD schools per year with 494 or less (Mean 511.5, standard deviation 6.5). That is one person per 1.54 med schools. Now if we include 494 with a 3.4 GPA and lower, that becomes 0.16% of MD students (that is 1 student for every 4.6 med schools). 7.6% of all MD students had 495-501. 1.8% have below 501 and gpa less than 3.4. The rejection rate for someone with below 497 and any GPA is 90-99.5%.

The point is that most MD students will not be competitive enough to land an orthopedic surgery residency. Someone with a MCAT score in the bottom 0.4-8% of students and a below average GPA is not likely to be one those students competitive enough to match ortho, so going to podiatry school and getting to do those surgeries is a good deal. Merging MD/DO/DPM under one school would push most students with podiatry stats out of the running for ortho, so I think the historical separation is beneficial for you guys

It's not a dig at podiatry school. You guys put in the work, hours, and training to be good at what you do.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

The answer to the OP with regard to the feet is yes, and better than most. The podiatrists I know are well trained, conservative physicians. They order pain meds, antibiotics, perform surgery, and are also experts in wound care. They were able to help me when the ortho foot and ankle specialists were not. The ortho I'm referring to is an editor to their main journal. Pods are a great resource as they mostly focus on the foot and ankle. Some do hip and knee replacements, but those are not the typical DPM. I have found them to be skillful and expert in their craft. They are an under utilized resource IMO.

 

[theepodiatrist]

So what exactly would an ortho specialized in foot and ankle know about those two and the health problems that affect them (just about those two, not about the whole body because the answer to that is obvious) that a podiatrist doesn't?? More in depth anatomy, physiology, and pathology ??

 

[DrStephenStrange]

So what exactly would an ortho specialized in foot and ankle know about those two and the health problems that affect them (just about those two, not about the whole body because the answer to that is obvious) that a podiatrist doesn't?? More in depth anatomy, physiology, and pathology ??

The first two pre-clinical years are the same for both Pod and Med students. So I don't think the knowledge base in anatomy, physio, or path would be that much different. The only difference is their clinical training, which is why I think people have been mentioning to you that podiatrists will do what they were trained to do and physicians will also do what they were trained to do.

 

[Dochopeful13]

So what exactly would an ortho specialized in foot and ankle know about those two and the health problems that affect them (just about those two, not about the whole body because the answer to that is obvious) that a podiatrist doesn't?? More in depth anatomy, physiology, and pathology ??

What exactly is the point of this thread?

 

[slowthai]

So what exactly would an ortho specialized in foot and ankle know about those two and the health problems that affect them (just about those two, not about the whole body because the answer to that is obvious) that a podiatrist doesn't?? More in depth anatomy, physiology, and pathology ??

They would be well versed in both the non-surgical and surgical management of the foot and ankle, similar to podiatrists, but there is variability in the practice types of podiatrists. Some operate, some don't. I will say that foot and ankle orthopods do not do certain things that some podiatrists do. I'll leave it for the podiatrists on here to explain further.

 

[theepodiatrist]

What exactly is the point of this thread?

Quote from my original post (it was highlighted too):

'And if the answer is yes, then I guess I'm asking if podiatry as a distinct profession is really necessary/justified or if it only exist due to historical circumstances ??'

 

[theepodiatrist]

Orthos deal strictly with the bones in the feet while podiatrist deal with the foot as a whole (skin, muscles, blood vessels, nails etc.), right?

 

[Dochopeful13]

Quote from my original post (it was highlighted too):

'And if the answer is yes, then I guess I'm asking if podiatry as a distinct profession is really necessary/justified or if it only exist due to historical circumstances ??'

Lol so you are asking if podiatry is a useless profession? Obviously they fulfill a niche/need in the medical community. There is a ton of overlap in the medical profession. If you are really curious about about pod vs ortho go shadow both specialties and see what they are like.

 

[theepodiatrist]

How come feet are a niche/need in the medical field? What other body part should have its own separate profession?

 

[Dochopeful13]

How come feet are a niche/need in the medical field? What other body part should have its own separate profession?

Teeth?

 

[theepodiatrist]

Teeth?

See my first post....

 

[DO2015CA]

How come feet are a niche/need in the medical field? What other body part should have its own separate profession?

They are niche because of diabetes. They require an immense amount of foot specific care. There are a lot of diabetic Americans. So there is a lot of need. Podiatrists can just do diabetic foot care and fill up their work week

 

[de Ribas]

See my first post....

Ophthalmologists

 

[theepodiatrist]

They are niche because of diabetes. They require an immense amount of foot specific care. There are a lot of diabetic Americans. So there is a lot of need. Podiatrists can just do diabetic foot care and fill up their work week

This begs the same question....does an endocrinologist know just as much about the diabetic foot as a podiatrist?

 

[theepodiatrist]

Ophthalmologists

Um since when is that not a medical specialty? They're not a separate profession like dentists and podiatrists.
Or did you mean optometrists? My questions apply to them too...

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

This begs the same question....does an endocrinologist know just as much about the diabetic foot as a podiatrist?

no

 

[DO2015CA]

This begs the same question....does an endocrinologist know just as much about the diabetic foot as a podiatrist?

Lol why are you fishing for this. Endocrinologists know more about diabetes as a whole but of course not routine foot care. They send them to a DPM for that. Could they learn it? sure. Would they want to? No. I’m a pediatric resident. Will I know more about babies, yes. Still wouldn’t want to deliver one ever again.

Edited for autocorrect

 

[Dochopeful13]

See my first post....

You asked what body part has it’s own profession and I answered you. Why are you so concerned about this? Healthcare is a team game and everybody has their roles to play. There’s a reason why an ortho surgeon doesn’t treat cardiology issues even though they went to medical school and learned about cardiac physiology.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

This begs the same question....does an endocrinologist know just as much about the diabetic foot as a podiatrist?

No

 

[theepodiatrist]

No

Read my post again....there's a 'should' there.
Also read my first post on this thread again....I mentioned dentists in it.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

What is proving that podiatry is a useless specialty gonna do for you? Do you have beef with Pods or something? Seems to me like you're fishing for the answer you want, and we're not giving it to you. Medicine is always gonna be a team job, and there will always be many overlaps between many many specialties. By your logic... are PAs really necessary? why do we have FM and IM? Or even EM trained FM docs when we have EM docs? is optometry a useless specialty?

 

[EmilKraepelin55]

The real question is: who cares? The distinction is irrelevant. They are trained to be foot and ankle specialists with surgical skills and are well qualified to deliver such care. The only justification podiatrists require is the fact that there is a great need in the medical community for such expertise. Give it a rest.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

What is proving that podiatry is a useless specialty gonna do for you? Do you have beef with Pods or something? Seems to me like you're fishing for the answer you want, and we're not giving it to you. Medicine is always gonna be a team job, and there will always be many overlap between many many specialties. By your logic... are PAs really necessary? why do we have FM and IM? Or even EM trained FM docs when we have EM docs? is optometry a useless specialty?

His name is theepodiatrist so i am guessing he wants to go to pod school, but wants to make sure he will still be respected for it..

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Read my post again....there's a 'should' there.
Also read my first post on this thread again....I mentioned dentists in it.

Endocrinologists do nor know more about foot care for diabetics. They have limited, if any, training in nail care or wound treatment, shoe recommendations, orthotics, etc. This is the comment I was responding ti.

 

[theepodiatrist]

What is proving that podiatry is a useless specialty gonna do for you? Do you have beef with Pods or something? Seems to me like you're fishing for the answer you want, and we're not giving it to you. Medicine is always gonna be a team job, and there will always be many overlaps between many many specialties. By your logic... are PAs really necessary? why do we have FM and IM? Or even EM trained FM docs when we have EM docs? is optometry a useless specialty?

Those two are very good questions as far as I'm concerned....
I addressed optometrists in one of my posts above actually.

 

[de Ribas]

Um since when is that not a medical specialty? They're not a separate profession like dentists and podiatrists.
Or did you mean optometrists? My questions apply to them too...

I didn't mean it as a separate profession, but still a specialty that focuses on a narrow body area or part.

 

[allantois]

We should just have shamans to treat all ailments

 

[theepodiatrist]

We should just have shamans to treat all ailments

You can do that to yourself if you want to.

 

[Weirdy]

Mate if you've got any other legitimate questions, we're more than happy to help you MD/DO/DPM alike.

That being said, I don't think you've seen enough interplay in the real world to understand the level of overlap and teamwork it takes to manage a patient.

I also don't think you've had your arse kicked by MD/DO/DPM school enough to understand that after a certain point, its not about the pissing game anymore.

Its about getting your work done and doing a dam good job at it, and then beating traffic home to have dinner with your family.

 

[theepodiatrist]

Mate if you've got any other legitimate questions, we're more than happy to help you MD/DO/DPM alike.

That being said, I don't think you've seen enough interplay in the real world to understand the level of overlap and teamwork it takes to manage a patient.

I also don't think you've had your arse kicked by MD/DO/DPM school enough to understand that after a certain point, its not about the pissing game anymore.

Its about getting your work done and doing a dam good job at it, and then beating traffic home to have dinner with your family.

Mate, if you don't like my thread and you don't think it's a legitimate question then you don't have to take part in it. And there's not need to get so agitated about it either...we're not dealing with a second Cuban missile crises here after all.

 

[theepodiatrist]

The real question is: who cares? The distinction is irrelevant. They are trained to be foot and ankle specialists with surgical skills and are well qualified to deliver such care. The only justification podiatrists require is the fact that there is a great need in the medical community for such expertise. Give it a rest.

So you, as a medical student who has to dedicate several years of your life to the study of the WHOLE body in order to become a doctor, wouldn't mind if in the near future another few healthcare professions that only deal with one body part sprung up (and also took 'turf' away from specialist doctors)?

As for the second point that I highlighted...is there really a great need in the medical community for feet-only experts (especially since we already have orthos specialized in foot and ankle) ??

 

[Angus Avagadro]

So you, as a medical student who has to dedicate several years of your life to the study of the WHOLE body in order to become a doctor, wouldn't mind if in the near future another few healthcare professions that only deal with one body part sprung up (and also took 'turf' away from specialist doctors)?

As for the second point that I highlighted...is there really a great need for individuals in the medical community that specialize strictly on the feet (especially since we already have orthos specialized in foot and ankle) ??

I don't mean to be repetitive, but DPM students have the SAME first 2 pre clinical years and courses that MDs and DOs have. They study the whole body. They are physicians.
Secondly, is there a great need for DPMs? You merely need look at their parking lots, which are full, and their OR schedules, also full. My good friend is a country DPM. My wife and I are both overpriced specialists. My friend is VERY successful and busy. 12 - 14 hr days. If he dropped his wallet in the parking lot, I'd burn mine!
Maybe you should consider Podiatry school?

 

[EmilKraepelin55]

So you, as a medical student who has to dedicate several years of your life to the study of the WHOLE body in order to become a doctor, wouldn't mind if in the near future another few healthcare professions that only deal with one body part sprung up (and also took 'turf' away from specialist doctors)?

As for the second point that I highlighted...is there really a great need in the medical community for feet-only experts (especially since we already have orthos specialized in foot and ankle) ??

1. I don’t care as long as their education is good enough to deliver quality care to patients at the level ascribed to that provider by virtue of their training and licensure. This isn’t an MD/DO vs. NP conversation by the way. It’s comparing medical students who don’t specialize first year of med school to med students who in fact do. Again DPM’s will NEVER do neurology, neurologists will never do podiatry. Duh.

2. Not sure what to say about this, other than of course there is a need since there are so many patients that require such care. Whether it is filled by a DPM or MD/DO is irrelevant. They aren’t encroaching on my territory in the same way foot/ankle orthopedists do not.

Again, who cares? You have recieved quite a number of opinions from MD/DO/DPM students and physicians alike stating similar ideas so who are you to say what we should or should not be worried about?

 

[LizzyM]

We might as well ask, can doctors do everything midwives do? If yes, why do we have midwives? Can D.O. do everything that M.D.s do? If yes, why do we have M.D.s? Yes, there are historical reasons for all of these specialties and there is enough room in the sandbox for everyone. Now, all y'all play nice.

 

[gyngyn]

Sadly, it would appear that clarification was not the intent of this thread.