can I just forget to mention my first degree on apps?

[chicarious]

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I've got a crappy GPA from my first degree(anthropology), but I've got a 3.9 on my second BA, of which I started from scratch. Took 121 credit hours all over again.

Can I just forget to mention my first BA, which would obviously hinder my application significantly?

Thanks folks. I have a feeling the answer is "if you get caught it's bad news, but you won't get caught...and you're a bad person for trying.." I just wanted to clarify with those in the know. Thanks again.

 

[WinterLights]

I've got a crappy GPA from my first degree(anthropology), but I've got a 3.9 on my second BA, of which I started from scratch. Took 121 credit hours all over again.

Can I just forget to mention my first BA, which would obviously hinder my application significantly?

Thanks folks. I have a feeling the answer is "if you get caught it's bad news, but you won't get caught...and you're a bad person for trying.." I just wanted to clarify with those in the know. Thanks again.

Go ahead and skip over sending in the transcripts from that school. Come back here and let us know how that goes.

 

[chicarious]

Go ahead and skip over sending in the transcripts from that school. Come back here and let us know how that goes.

Go on then?

 

[Depakote]

I've got a crappy GPA from my first degree(anthropology), but I've got a 3.9 on my second BA, of which I started from scratch. Took 121 credit hours all over again.

Can I just forget to mention my first BA, which would obviously hinder my application significantly?

Thanks folks. I have a feeling the answer is "if you get caught it's bad news, but you won't get caught...and you're a bad person for trying.." I just wanted to clarify with those in the know. Thanks again.

more like: if you get caught, it's bad news and they have your SSN so they'll probably catch you... we just think it would be funny to watch.

 

[LucidSplash]

Go on then?

What WinterLights is trying to tell you is that you are required to send in transcripts from all US institutions at which you took even a single class. It is HIGHLY unadvisable to "forget" to send in any of these transcripts. Do you so at your own risk; if you are caught, it is unlikely you will be accepted at any medical school.

 

[chicarious]

more like: if you get caught, it's bad news and they have your SSN so they'll probably catch you... we just think it would be funny to watch.

What's that all about? Are you really going to give me a morality wrap based on collegiate transcript disingenuousness?

Really?

What WinterLights is trying to tell you is that you are required to send in transcripts from all US institutions at which you took even a single class. It is HIGHLY unadvisable to "forget" to send in any of these transcripts. Do you so at your own risk; if you are caught, it is unlikely you will be accepted at any medical school.

understood.


I didn't use financial aid for my first BA, so I really have no record on file anywhere other than the university itself.

Thanks for your reply. I'm thinking it over.

 

[pianola]

Yeah, I'm not so sure they're gonna buy retrograde amnesia for several years of your life without some sort of major traffic accident...but who knows?

Are you thinking along the lines of "Whoops, I just forgot about those years. My bad."?

 

[chicarious]

Yeah, I'm not so sure they're gonna buy retrograde amnesia for several years of your life without some sort of major traffic accident...but who knows?

Are you thinking along the lines of "Whoops, I just forgot about those years. My bad."?

I have verifiable full time work experience through the first BA. In large part, thus, the ****ty grades.

 

[shaggybill]

Since you have such a great GPA on your second degree, you more than likely have a great upward trend. If your MCAT is high, you have a chance of getting in without having to cheat. Why risk it? If you score in the mid-upper 30's, I bet you could get in somewhere. If you're caught cheating on the application, you will most likely not ever get in.

 

[WinterLights]

I have verifiable full time work experience through the first BA. In large part, thus, the ****ty grades.

Hindsight is 20/20. Your best bet is to make your case in your personal statement and secondaries. Attempting to hide a BA degree worth of credit hours is blatantly dishonest, and says something about your judgment.

 

[chicarious]

Since you have such a great GPA on your second degree, you more than likely have a great upward trend. If your MCAT is high, you have a chance of getting in without having to cheat. Why risk it? If you score in the mid-upper 30's, I bet you could get in somewhere. If you're caught cheating on the application, you will most likely not ever get in.

Thanks man. It's not even the GPA that really concerns me, more like withdrawals. I've got literally like 13 or 14 W's over a 3 year period. There is no real justifiable reason, either. Had some pretty sever and pathetic social anxiety issues that culminated into bouts of avoiding classroom settings randomly mid semester. Really embarrassing and unexplainable stuff to an admissions committee.

 

[johnniewalker11]

.

 

[pianola]

Am I the only one who thinks having two degrees would be a positive despite a poor GPA on one of them?

Maybe. 13 or 14 Ws is no picnic to explain. Bear in mind the OP hasn't shared exactly *how* bad s/he's talking about.

OP, honestly, if you have a whole new degree then I don't think it will cost you SO much in the admissions process...Seriously. There's just GOT to be a statute of limitations on how far back bad grades will be able to haunt you. A 3.9 is very, very impressive. Score well on the MCAT and it'll be clear what kind of student you are.

You may have to explain it to an interviewer in person, but so long as you think out how you'll explain it ahead of time, you should be fine.

 

[chicarious]

Am I the only one who thinks having two degrees would be a positive despite a poor GPA on one of them?

See my post above yours. It's the W's in addition to the GPA.

 

[chicarious]

Maybe. 13 or 14 Ws is no picnic to explain. Bear in mind the OP hasn't shared exactly *how* bad s/he's talking about.

OP, honestly, if you have a whole new degree then I don't think it will cost you SO much in the admissions process...Seriously. There's just GOT to be a statute of limitations on how far back bad grades will be able to haunt you. A 3.9 is very, very impressive. Score well on the MCAT and it'll be clear what kind of student you are.

You may have to explain it to an interviewer in person, but so long as you think out how you'll explain it ahead of time, you should be fine.

Ya think? I've done some research in the psych. department related to the stuff I was going through. Maybe I could turn it into a cutesy turn around story?


EDIT: GPA was 2.98.

 

[scarletgirl777]

Ya think? I've done some research in the psych. department related to the stuff I was going through. Maybe I could turn it into a cutesy turn around story?


EDIT: GPA was 2.98.

Are you SERIOUS? A 2.98 while doing full-time work, and on top of it you did this classwork eons ago? It's totally not worth it--just submit the transcript. It doesn't matter if you applied for financial aid or not--all students' coursework at accredited US colleges is kept in a national student clearinghouse and within minutes a school could verify your attendance at this first university.

The average of a 2.98 and a 3.9 is about a 3.45. There are plenty of people getting into great medical schools with a 3.45 that is NOT an upward trend. You're going to be just fine, and your first BA and mediocre GPA is going to be part of an inspirational hook that you can milk in interviews and secondaries. Don't be stupid.

 

[pianola]

Maybe I could turn it into a cutesy turn around story?

Religious revival, perhaps, if you're so inclined. Have you by any chance found God recently?

PS. Browse Lifetime for a set of relevant plotlines you might be interested in 🙂

EDIT: I'm not trying to be flippant, sorry. Good luck. I REALLY don't think the first degree is going to hold you back THAT much. But yeah. I dunno. Good luck.

 

[chicarious]

Are you SERIOUS? A 2.98 while doing full-time work, and on top of it you did this classwork eons ago? It's totally not worth it--just submit the transcript. It doesn't matter if you applied for financial aid or not--all students' coursework at accredited US colleges is kept in a national student clearinghouse and within minutes a school could verify your attendance at this first university.

The average of a 2.98 and a 3.9 is about a 3.45. There are plenty of people getting into great medical schools with a 3.45 that is NOT an upward trend. You're going to be just fine, and your first BA and mediocre GPA is going to be part of an inspirational hook that you can milk in interviews and secondaries. Don't be stupid.

Nice. Thanks for this. I don't know. I had/have/will always have a soft spot for the cliched ivies and all that. Maybe I should just let it go and pursue the MD for what it is.

Religious revival, perhaps, if you're so inclined. Have you by any chance found God recently?

I just finished The God Delusion, so, kinda?

PS. Browse Lifetime for a set of relevant plotlines you might be interested in 🙂

EDIT: I'm not trying to be flippant, sorry. Good luck. I REALLY don't think the first degree is going to hold you back THAT much. But yeah. I dunno. Good luck.

Thanks man. I don't know either.

 

[Ariadne]

OP, honestly, if you have a whole new degree then I don't think it will cost you SO much in the admissions process...Seriously. There's just GOT to be a statute of limitations on how far back bad grades will be able to haunt you.

According to my adviser, there's not. 👎

However, her suggestion to students if they're really serious about the MD route and have a crappy first degree is to go ahead and do it all over again. So I should think the second degree does really show something. Although you would think the same could be accomplished with as many credits of bost-bacc work (i.e. it's not the degree that counts so much as the consistent A-level performance over time).

 

[scarletgirl777]

Nice. Thanks for this. I don't know. I had/have/will always have a soft spot for the cliched ivies and all that. Maybe I should just let it go and pursue the MD for what it is.
I just finished The God Delusion, so, kinda?


Thanks man. I don't know either.

You're right, that is cliched. Having said that, with this type of dramatic upward trend, it is definitely possible to get into "the cliched ivies" with a 3.45. I know I'm going to get flamed on this or whatever, but what you really need on that level is a story. I don't know your circumstances, but whatever drove you to need or think you need a full time job as a student could be part of that story.

Also, understand there are no guarantees, and you could be taking a risk to improve your chances for an Ivy that could actually bar you from every single med school in America, or even get you kicked out after you were already in.

 

[pianola]

I know I'm going to get flamed on this or whatever, but what you really need on that level is a story.

No flaming, you're totally right. Even 'stellar' applicants need a story, otherwise the interview ends up pretty boring...

I think whether or not you're perceived as a 3.9 candidate or a 2.98 candidate will depend a lot on the MCAT. But I really doubt they'll see you as a 3.45 candidate.

So yeah, ace that test. Show 'em you're the 3.9 guy 🙂

 

[45408]

if you get caught it's bad news, but you won't get caught...and you're a bad person for trying..

 

[chad5871]

Ever hear of the National Student Clearinghouse? Chances are they have a record of your first degree. If AMCAS or any medical schools find out that you didn't report any courses from your first degree, it's bad news. Really bad...

 

[shaggybill]

A 2.98??? That's it? I figured you were talking about something like a 2.0. Do well on the MCAT and you'll be fine.

 

[deleted128562]

Good grief, this is getting sad. How many of these "do you think I'll get caught if I lie?" posts have we seen in the last 3 months?

No wonder my pre-med advisor told me the following: He is close friends with ADCOMS at 2 major universities. Apparently they both told him that in the past couple of years they've changed their interview format/questions so that part of the interview is actually to try to OUT PEOPLE WHO ARE PADDING THEIR RESUMES. They said that it's become a HUGE problem with numerous students getting caught with stuff in interviews each cycle (think: can't explain supposed biochem research project in any detail to a biochem prof interviewer, can't speak spanish with a spanish speaking interviewer even though was listed as fluent on app, supposed volunteer organization researched by committee and doesn't actually exist, hospital contacted and verifies interviewee has 100 volunteer hours, not 2500 as listed.) And based on my first interview this year I can definitely vouch that this is true - I had people who were very knowledgeable about the stuff I had in my app, and it made me damn glad that I hadn't lied about anything!!

This is so sad. Medicine is supposed to be a profession based upon trust and integrity, and instead we've got a bunch of louts trying to steal seats from good, honest, hard-working people who tell the truth even when it hurts, possibly putting the honest folks at a potential disadvantage against these liars. No wonder surveys show the public's trust in medical professionals at an all-time low.

 

[Depakote]

Interviewer: This 3.9 GPA looks good, impressive MCAT. I like your ECs. Just out of curiosity, what did you do in this 4 year gap after high school between 1998-2002?

 

[chicarious]

Ever hear of the National Student Clearinghouse? Chances are they have a record of your first degree. If AMCAS or any medical schools find out that you didn't report any courses from your first degree, it's bad news. Really bad...

Oddly enough, my first institution doesn't participate.

Good grief, this is getting sad. How many of these "do you think I'll get caught if I lie?" posts have we seen in the last 3 months?

No wonder my pre-med advisor told me the following: He is close friends with ADCOMS at 2 major universities. Apparently they both told him that in the past couple of years they've changed their interview format/questions so that part of the interview is actually to try to OUT PEOPLE WHO ARE PADDING THEIR RESUMES. They said that it's become a HUGE problem with numerous students getting caught with stuff in interviews each cycle (think: can't explain supposed biochem research project in any detail to a biochem prof interviewer, can't speak spanish with a spanish speaking interviewer even though was listed as fluent on app, supposed volunteer organization researched by committee and doesn't actually exist, hospital contacted and verifies interviewee has 100 volunteer hours, not 2500 as listed.) And based on my first interview this year I can definitely vouch that this is true - I had people who were very knowledgeable about the stuff I had in my app, and it made me damn glad that I hadn't lied about anything!!

This is so sad. Medicine is supposed to be a profession based upon trust and integrity, and instead we've got a bunch of louts trying to steal seats from good, honest, hard-working people who tell the truth even when it hurts, possibly putting the honest folks at a potential disadvantage against these liars. No wonder surveys show the public's trust in medical professionals at an all-time low.

That was adorable.

Naivete is sometimes mildly inspiring.

Interviewer: This 3.9 GPA looks good, impressive MCAT. I like your ECs. Just out of curiosity, what did you do in this 4 year gap after high school between 1998-2002?

it would actually be more like 7 years. I graduated with my first BA at 25, second BS at 29. I worked full time.

 

[deleted128562]

Oddly enough, my first institution doesn't participate.

That was adorable.

Naivete is sometimes mildly inspiring.

it would actually be more like 7 years. I graduated with my first BA at 25, second BS at 29. I worked full time.

So having integrity is adorable and naive? Wow. Again, no wonder public trust in medical professionals is at an all-time low.

 

[deleted128562]

Actually you know what, screw it. OP, just forget everything I said and please forgive me for my judgemental attitude.

I would highly recommend that you "forget" your first degree and wish you the best of luck. I only ask one favor:

When you are $100,000 in debt and being kicked out of medical school mid-way through, please make sure to tell the dean that he/she is "adorable" and "naive". I'm sure he/she will enjoy that very much. And if somehow you do make it through school without being caught, then screw up a procedure, lie about it, and get caught in court, make sure to tell the jury members that they are "adorable" and "naive". They'll appreciate that too.

 

[chicarious]

Actually you know what, screw it. OP, just forget everything I said and please forgive me for my judgemental attitude.

I would highly recommend that you "forget" your first degree and wish you the best of luck. I only ask one favor:

When you are $100,000 in debt and being kicked out of medical school mid-way through, please make sure to tell the dean that he/she is "adorable" and "naive". I'm sure he/she will enjoy that very much. And if somehow you do make it through school without being caught, then screw up a procedure, lie about it, and get caught in court, make sure to tell the jury members that they are "adorable" and "naive". They'll appreciate that too.

Holy drama queen batman.

Clearly, we have a difference of option as to what dictates genuine morality vs. what some might call 'working' a bureaucratic disaster of a system. I'm not really into E battles or philosophical ethics debates via monitor. Somehow I'd manage to sleep at night if I were to leave off my first BA from a med school application. Slippery slope to Bundy territory, no less.

 

[scarletgirl777]

Oddly enough, my first institution doesn't participate.

That was adorable.

Naivete is sometimes mildly inspiring.

it would actually be more like 7 years. I graduated with my first BA at 25, second BS at 29. I worked full time.

There are different lists for institutions that participate at different levels. I did a double take when I realized MY institution didn't appear to participate and figured that out. Regardless, there's nothing stopping them from participating at any time. Also, all it takes is one person to know that you went to that school, for that info to somehow get back to someone, and for a school/job/whatever to inquire at that college directly (random, but apparently when applying to residency, the narrative of your life during college has to be included, so that would involve lying at least 2 critical times in your life).

 

[deleted128562]

Holy drama queen batman.

Clearly, we have a difference of option as to what dictates genuine morality vs. what some might call 'working' a bureaucratic disaster of a system. I'm not really into E battles or philosophical ethics debates via monitor. Somehow I'd manage to sleep at night if I were to leave off my first BA from a med school application. Slippery slope to Bundy territory, no less.

I guess our opinions do differ and there's not much to be done about that. I think integrity is an important trait in a physician, you don't. So that's that. All the best.

 

[chicarious]

There are different lists for institutions that participate at different levels. I did a double take when I realized MY institution didn't appear to participate and figured that out. Regardless, there's nothing stopping them from participating at any time. Also, all it takes is one person to know that you went to that school, for that info to somehow get back to someone, and for a school/job/whatever to inquire at that college directly (random, but apparently when applying to residency, the narrative of your life during college has to be included, so that would involve lying at least 2 critical times in your life).

Good point. I'm probably not going to try to pull it off. Not worth the risk.

I guess our opinions do differ and there's not much to be done about that. I think integrity is an important trait in a physician, you don't. So that's that. All the best.

You're ready to make qualitative statements about a person based on this?


Really? Are you one of those flag waiving teary eyed dudes at GOP conventions who nods when the candidate of the day says something "work hard, play by the rules, and anything can happen in America! I did!"?

Did you bring flip flops in 04?

 

[deleted128562]

Good point. I'm probably not going to try to pull it off. Not worth the risk.

You're ready to make qualitative statements about a person based on this?


Really? Are you one of those flag waiving teary eyed dudes at GOP conventions who nods when the candidate of the day says something "work hard, play by the rules, and anything can happen in America! I did!"?

Did you bring flip flops in 04?

Ummmm..... So you bash me for making a qualitative statment based on your comments, then continue on to write a qualitative statement of your own about me. Brilliant. Absolutely classic. Please forgive me, seriously. I can see why you'd need to lie to get in.

 

[chicarious]

Ummmm..... So you bash me for making a qualitative statment based on your comments, then continue on to write a qualitative statement of your own about me. Brilliant. Absolutely classic. Please forgive me, seriously. I can see why you'd need to lie to get in.

Do you know what a qualitative statement is? Honest question. Don't google.



This is getting a bit silly. A feel a thread lock approaching.

 

[scg]

'working' a bureaucratic disaster of a system

I like how you rationalize this. At least you're smart enough to ask if you'll get caught.

 

[deleted128562]

Do you know what a qualitative statement is? Honest question. Don't google.



This is getting a bit silly. A feel a thread lock approaching.

Yes. Do you?

 

[group_theory]

It will be a skeleton in the closet.

You are lying on your medical school application by omission. Yes, it is ground for rejection if it is discovered prior to matriculation.

As a student, it is ground for termination if discovered (you were admitted under false pretenses)

As a doctor, if a malpractice attorney finds out about it, he/she can be used against you (attack your character/integrity).

If your school finds out, they can (at their discretion) revoke your degree since you were admitted under false pretenses. If your degree is revoked, you are no longer a graduate of a medical school so you can no longer be licensed.

Why would a medical school take the step of revoking a degree from one of its graduates? Should something bad happen and there is public outcry, you are on the chopping block.

It will be a skeleton in your closet. It may stay hidden forever, but you never know when it may be discovered.

 

[chicarious]

I like how you rationalize this. At least you're smart enough to ask if you'll get caught.

I do too

Yes. Do you?

indeed Mr. Hat.

 

[chicarious]

It will be a skeleton in the closet.

You are lying on your medical school application by omission. Yes, it is ground for rejection if it is discovered prior to matriculation.

As a student, it is ground for termination if discovered (you were admitted under false pretenses)

As a doctor, if a malpractice attorney finds out about it, he/she can be used against you (attack your character/integrity).

If your school finds out, they can (at their discretion) revoke your degree since you were admitted under false pretenses. If your degree is revoked, you are no longer a graduate of a medical school so you can no longer be licensed.

Why would a medical school take the step of revoking a degree from one of its graduates? Should something bad happen and there is public outcry, you are on the chopping block.

It will be a skeleton in your closet. It may stay hidden forever, but you never know when it may be discovered.

Thanks for this. Everyone has skeletons, but upon further review, this one is too big for my chest. I'd be looking over my shoulder a bit my entire career.

I confess that I still don't feel this sort of phony sense of moral outrage lauded by some here, I just wouldn't want that on my chest for the rest of my life.


Thanks again for your insight. It is officially not worth it.

 

[JLC]

Seriously, I really really think you're fine, almost everybody here has said that, ur 2.98,, bleh, ur 3.9....WOW.

So relax, adcoms are people also, they'll recognize ur 3.9 (and in anycase the avg GPA for when they were applying was prob around 3.5). Also ur admission into med school depends on many other factors, do well on mcat and everything else and you'll bound to get in.




BTW, working full time doesn't really mean its impossible to get good grades, I worked full time and graduated top in my class in three years. I'm not telling u specifically, but several people with low grades always mention the fact that they worked full time, part time or whatever, there's really no excuse for poor grades.

in anycase, good luck

 

[scg]

He's lying. You're not bound to get into somewhere.

 

[chicarious]

Seriously, I really really think you're fine, almost everybody here has said that, ur 2.98,, bleh, ur 3.9....WOW.

So relax, adcoms are people also, they'll recognize ur 3.9 (and in anycase the avg GPA for when they were applying was prob around 3.5). Also ur admission into med school depends on many other factors, do well on mcat and everything else and you'll bound to get in.




BTW, working full time doesn't really mean its impossible to get good grades, I worked full time and graduated top in my class in three years. I'm not telling u specifically, but several people with low grades always mention the fact that they worked full time, part time or whatever, there's really no excuse for poor grades.

in anycase, good luck

I agree. I had social issues that were the crux of my problems the first go round. And thanks!

 

[scg]

I agree. I had social issues that were the crux of my problems the first go round. And thanks!

You quoted him saying "there's really no excuse for poor grades".

You say you agree but you follow that up by giving an excuse for your terrible, terrible performance?

 

[Handy388]

I agree. I had social issues that were the crux of my problems the first go round. And thanks!

how are you going to explain to the adcoms about social issues?

 

[HumidBeing]

You've already decided that you are going to report both degrees, which I believe is the right decision, if for no other reason than it's in your own best interest.

That stack of W's isn't likely to hurt you as much as you think, because they were in the distant past in your academic record. You've already shown by example that the situation that led to having them has been resolved. You can even use them as a talking point for an example of your ability to recognize and overcome personal weaknesses.