Can I pad my GPA????

[missjackson]

I am desparately trying to make up for idiocy when I was 18-21 and retaking all of my BCMP classes. Can I take any B,C,M, or P course and get that potential (and inevitable) A factored into my BCMP gpa? I'm trying to gently pad that GPA b/c my cum undergrad GPA ain't goin too high. I took too many hours. I'm thinking I can make up the difference with bcmps. I also want to show that I'm serious about this now by knocking these classes back. I have straight up F's in places on my transcript. I'm really thinking I may have shot myself in the foot....

cum GPA 2.47
BCMP 2.00

If I retake all my basic classes plus about 15 hours extra of reccommended classes, then I can get my BCMP GPA up to 3.0 but thats about all. I am scoring 30+ on MCAT already and have some ECs and good recs. All I really want is to get into my state school (MCAT 26, GPA 3.4).....

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[cheezer]

yikes. i'm not quite in that hole, but i would totally do it. in fact, i am going to do it. nothing like a 100 level course to boost up the gpa

 

[Law2Doc]

I am desparately trying to make up for idiocy when I was 18-21 and retaking all of my BCMP classes. Can I take any B,C,M, or P course and get that potential (and inevitable) A factored into my BCMP gpa? I'm trying to gently pad that GPA b/c my cum undergrad GPA ain't goin too high. I took too many hours. I'm thinking I can make up the difference with bcmps. I also want to show that I'm serious about this now by knocking these classes back. I have straight up F's in places on my transcript. I'm really thinking I may have shot myself in the foot....

cum GPA 2.47
BCMP 2.00

If I retake all my basic classes plus about 15 hours extra of reccommended classes, then I can get my BCMP GPA up to 3.0 but thats about all. I am scoring 30+ on MCAT already and have some ECs and good recs. All I really want is to get into my state school (MCAT 26, GPA 3.4).....

You want to get a lengthy track record of A's, and mostly take/retake sciences that count as prereqs and upper level sciences. However nobody is going to fault you if you take a stat class, a non-medical oriented bio, etc. here and there. You can absolutely take more sciences or math than the "recommended" ones, so long as you are still getting A's in the recommended ones. Additionally, if, in a full slate of premed sciences you also want to add that freshman geology class you've always wanted to try, I doubt anyone would ever mention it. Just don't be too blatent or do this often (make sure that most classes you are taking each semester are mostly the premed variety).

 

[DrTee]

I am desparately trying to make up for idiocy when I was 18-21 and retaking all of my BCMP classes. Can I take any B,C,M, or P course and get that potential (and inevitable) A factored into my BCMP gpa? I'm trying to gently pad that GPA b/c my cum undergrad GPA ain't goin too high. I took too many hours. I'm thinking I can make up the difference with bcmps. I also want to show that I'm serious about this now by knocking these classes back. I have straight up F's in places on my transcript. I'm really thinking I may have shot myself in the foot....

cum GPA 2.47
BCMP 2.00

If I retake all my basic classes plus about 15 hours extra of reccommended classes, then I can get my BCMP GPA up to 3.0 but thats about all. I am scoring 30+ on MCAT already and have some ECs and good recs. All I really want is to get into my state school (MCAT 26, GPA 3.4).....

Hi MissJackson,

My father's advice (He's an MD) is to score above national average on the MCAT (first priority), retake the classes with C's and lower, and take 2-3 relevant graduate level courses.

Looks like we may be in a similar situation, but I may be a bit older than you. I will be spending my 30's making up for my 20's so that I can help save the world.

Good Luck Dr. Jackson!

 

[cooldreams]

they will look at undergraduate BCMP first and then look at your total BCMP grades.

I know in DO schools, if you retake a class, they recalc your gpa, but with MD schools, they look at both grades.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

Hi MissJackson,

My father's advice (He's an MD) is to score above national average on the MCAT (first priority), retake the classes with C's and lower, and take 2-3 relevant graduate level courses.

Looks like we may be in a similar situation, but I may be a bit older than you. I will be spending my 30's making up for my 20's so that I can help save the world.

Good Luck Dr. Jackson!

I've found that MDs know very little about the current state of admissions. (No offense to your father)

What I've heard from the admissions side is that retaking classes isn't always the best option when you have the opportunity to take upper-level, undergraduate coursework to improve your GPA and to show an upward trend. Sure, take a course two times, you'll almost always do better. Simply retaking sophmore-level prereqs isn't going to show the ADCOM that you can handle tough science coursework. Also, graduate-level courses are generally seen as grade-inflated, so don't take them as a graduate...make sure you are enrolled as an undergraduate when taking them so they show up under your undergraduate GPA.

 

[Law2Doc]

My father's advice (He's an MD) is to score above national average on the MCAT (first priority), retake the classes with C's and lower, and take 2-3 relevant graduate level courses.

Your dad may be a bit out of touch with the current landscape, or he knows something the conventional wisdom doesn't. The national average on the MCAT is quite low -- not competitive. Perhaps he meant national average FOR MATRICULANTS, which is about 6 points higher. As far as classes to take, depending on the hole you are in, you may need more than 2-3 additional classes. There are people on here who have had great success taking years of additional classes. For someone with a C average, there isn't going to be such a quick fix. And "graduate level courses" don't affect GPA, so most people will do undergrad coursework first, to improve the GPA, and perhaps top it off with graduate level SMP later (which can show you can handle upper level things but do not actually affect GPA). This isn't a race, and for someone who dug a deep hole can take a very long time to fix.

 

[DrTee]

Your dad may be a bit out of touch with the current landscape, or he knows something the conventional wisdom doesn't. The national average on the MCAT is quite low -- not competitive. Perhaps he meant national average FOR MATRICULANTS, which is about 6 points higher. As far as classes to take, depending on the hole you are in, you may need more than 2-3 additional classes. There are people on here who have had great success taking years of additional classes. For someone with a C average, there isn't going to be such a quick fix. And "graduate level courses" don't affect GPA, so most people will do undergrad coursework first, to improve the GPA, and perhaps top it off with graduate level SMP later (which can show you can handle upper level things but do not actually affect GPA). This isn't a race, and for someone who dug a deep hole can take a very long time to fix.

Thanks for the advice! I am actually retaking my undergraduate classes while working on my MPH. I know I won't have a problem with either because I've learned most of the material for the MPH on the job for the last 7 years and I've been tutoring chemistry and physics for the last 10 years on and off. I'll be signing up for Kaplan before I take the MCAT, so we'll see what happens when I start applying to schools. I'm optimistic.

 

[Law2Doc]

Thanks for the advice! I am actually retaking my undergraduate classes while working on my MPH. I know I won't have a problem with either because I've learned most of the material for the MPH on the job for the last 7 years and I've been tutoring chemistry and physics for the last 10 years on and off. I'll be signing up for Kaplan before I take the MCAT, so we'll see what happens when I start applying to schools. I'm optimistic.

Make sure you are doing the MPH because you are interested in public health and not using it mainly to try and get into med school. MPH is actually not a good graduate program for this latter purpose because med schools reportedly put more weight on graduate degrees in the "hard sciences" than MPH which is regarded as composed of "softer sciences". Although I don't have personal experience with the MPH, there are many threads on this and how the MPH grades tended to have less impact in admissions than students would have liked.

 

[DrTee]

I've found that MDs know very little about the current state of admissions. (No offense to your father)

What I've heard from the admissions side is that retaking classes isn't always the best option when you have the opportunity to take upper-level, undergraduate coursework to improve your GPA and to show an upward trend. Sure, take a course two times, you'll almost always do better. Simply retaking sophmore-level prereqs isn't going to show the ADCOM that you can handle tough science coursework. Also, graduate-level courses are generally seen as grade-inflated, so don't take them as a graduate...make sure you are enrolled as an undergraduate when taking them so they show up under your undergraduate GPA.

No offense taken. His advice is from what worked when he went to school in the 70's. Even though I have undesirable GPA, there is actually a tiny bit of an upward trend in my last 60 hours of coursework. Not sure if that will matter (overall GPA 2.5, last 60 hours 3.1), but like I said, I'm optimistic. I just want to be able help patients more than I do in my current position and I think that motivation will help me through this process.

 

[MSmentor018]

well if you've already started the MPH program....mind as well finish it, otherwise you'll have to explain that on your interview. regardless if it helps or not for med school, every little bit helps pad your CV, it usually comes down to a time vs cost issue. how much time and money did I use to get to this point of applying? or is it better to use the same resources to take upper level bio/chem courses, get an A, and pad the gpa on the secondary. it can make a difference if you're cutting out upper level C's and replacing them with A's.

 

[DrTee]

well if you've already started the MPH program....mind as well finish it, otherwise you'll have to explain that on your interview. regardless if it helps or not for med school, every little bit helps pad your CV, it usually comes down to a time vs cost issue. how much time and money did I use to get to this point of applying? or is it better to use the same resources to take upper level bio/chem courses, get an A, and pad the gpa on the secondary. it can make a difference if you're cutting out upper level C's and replacing them with A's.

I will start my MPH this fall. I wasn't really sure if I should work on my MPH before or after medical school, but since I don't plan on applying to medical school until 2009 I thought it would be ok.

My plan is to work on my MPH while retaking classes I did poorly in, then go to a SMP. I'll be doing all this while still working . Maybe I'll be able to save up for my first year of medical school since I won't have time to spend my money .

 

[MSmentor018]

some folks take a year off between 2-3rd yr and do a MPH. or they do it in conjunction during residency. why would you need a SMP if your pre req grades are good (SMP is the post bacc program right?). I know how you feel, I've been in your shoes. thats going to be tough balancing MPH, work, and pre reqs....best wishes and all the luck to you

 

[DrTee]

some folks take a year off between 2-3rd yr and do a MPH. or they do it in conjunction during residency. why would you need a SMP if your pre req grades are good (SMP is the post bacc program right?). I know how you feel, I've been in your shoes. thats going to be tough balancing MPH, work, and pre reqs....best wishes and all the luck to you

I thought that I would need to do some kind of post bacc because of my undergrad GPA. I'm retaking classes, but those are just undergrad courses. Should I apply without the post bacc? It would definitely save me some serious money if I did, but I'm not sure how strong my application would be.

 

[njbmd]

I am desparately trying to make up for idiocy when I was 18-21 and retaking all of my BCMP classes. Can I take any B,C,M, or P course and get that potential (and inevitable) A factored into my BCMP gpa? I'm trying to gently pad that GPA b/c my cum undergrad GPA ain't goin too high. I took too many hours. I'm thinking I can make up the difference with bcmps. I also want to show that I'm serious about this now by knocking these classes back. I have straight up F's in places on my transcript. I'm really thinking I may have shot myself in the foot....

cum GPA 2.47
BCMP 2.00

If I retake all my basic classes plus about 15 hours extra of reccommended classes, then I can get my BCMP GPA up to 3.0 but thats about all. I am scoring 30+ on MCAT already and have some ECs and good recs. All I really want is to get into my state school (MCAT 26, GPA 3.4).....

Depending on how many hours of "GPA damage control", you may need more than what you outline above. You need to sit down with spreadsheet and figure out exactly how much your GPA will go up with what you outline above and add more coursework if needed.

Also, remember that those average GPAs are for classes that are currently matriculated. Your state school averages may go up and thus you may need more coursework than you originally believed. In addition, make sure, I repeat for emphasis, MAKE SURE that you do not earn any grades less than B+ in any of the courses that you repeat. A string of repeats with mediocre grades can tank your application. Be sure that you don't overload yourself attempting to speed up this process and not earn the grades that you need.

Hi MissJackson,

My father's advice (He's an MD) is to score above national average on the MCAT (first priority), retake the classes with C's and lower, and take 2-3 relevant graduate level courses.

Looks like we may be in a similar situation, but I may be a bit older than you. I will be spending my 30's making up for my 20's so that I can help save the world.

Good Luck Dr. Jackson!

Graduate courses are not particularly helpful if you need "undergraduate GPA damage control". The MCAT will not offset a poor undergraduate GPA. In order to be "competitive" for admissions, the undergraduate GPA needs to competitive in addition to a competitive MCAT score.

 

[MSmentor018]

I thought that I would need to do some kind of post bacc because of my undergrad GPA. I'm retaking classes, but those are just undergrad courses. Should I apply without the post bacc? It would definitely save me some serious money if I did, but I'm not sure how strong my application would be.

the post above is right on....if you take extra classes that are not needed for pre reqs (post bacc stuff) and ONLY IF YOU GET A'S, it'll push up your overall gpa. the only way to change your undergrad is 1. take the course over, some schools will either replace the grade with the new one or combine them 2. take upper level undergrad courses, like micro/cell/molec/biochem. ex. if you got a C in bio 101 your upper level bio (micro) grade of an A will help give you a 3.0. if you took a bunch of upper level stuff, then choose the best grade. I've done both to pad mine, it works.

 

[RevGood]

You need to sit down with spreadsheet and figure out exactly how much your GPA will go up with what you outline above and add more coursework if needed.

If I might ask... how exactly do you do this?

 

[Law2Doc]

the only way to change your undergrad is 1. take the course over, some schools will either replace the grade with the new one or combine them

Just to let you know, it does not matter how your schools treat it. It only matters how AMCAS (or the DO version) will treat it. For allo both grades (original and retake) have to be listed, and so you end up with a double weighted average. This is so even if for your school's GPA the original gets replaced. For DO the latter grade is generally what counts, so it is a more forgiving system.

 

[pingouin]

You need to sit down with spreadsheet and figure out exactly how much your GPA will go up with what you outline above and add more coursework if needed.

If I might ask... how exactly do you do this?

I don't have a spreadsheet available, although I have seen some sort of grade calculator around here.. but to give anecdotal info...

I graduated over 10 years ago with my BS in a non-sci major with a cum GPA of 3.27. Within my 128(?) credit hours, I had 17 BCPM hours which totaled a stellar 2.47.

In my post-bacc, I have done 34 credit hours so far, with a 3.94 GPA- all BCP (no more M- no thanks).

Final calculation per AMCAS?
cum 3.40
BCPM 3.42

So... some recovery is possible, but the changes in overall GPA may not be as drastic as many of us would like to see. The only reason for the huge jump in my BCPM is that I didn't have many credit hours in that from undergrad.

 

[MSmentor018]

I don't have a spreadsheet available, although I have seen some sort of grade calculator around here.. but to give anecdotal info...

I graduated over 10 years ago with my BS in a non-sci major with a cum GPA of 3.27. Within my 128(?) credit hours, I had 17 BCPM hours which totaled a stellar 2.47.

In my post-bacc, I have done 34 credit hours so far, with a 3.94 GPA- all BCP (no more M- no thanks).

Final calculation per AMCAS?
cum 3.40
BCPM 3.42

So... some recovery is possible, but the changes in overall GPA may not be as drastic as many of us would like to see. The only reason for the huge jump in my BCPM is that I didn't have many credit hours in that from undergrad.

what is it with just the necessary courses for pre reqs? also a few schools required (for ex) genetics or cell bio on top of your upper level electives. if you had an A in that....up the gpa goes.

 

[pingouin]

what is it with just the necessary courses for pre reqs? also a few schools required (for ex) genetics or cell bio on top of your upper level electives. if you had an A in that....up the gpa goes.

the 3.94 is all of the pre-reqs- 2 bio + lab, 2 chem + lab, 2 organic, 1 organic lab, 2 physics + lab. I'll be taking some upper level bios this year as I'm applying.

the UG 2.47 BCPM included calc and stats, and then some wonky advanced gen chem and advanced gen bio classes I was in- "advanced" meaning "both semesters smashed into one semester and you only get 5 credit hours, but this meets the med school requirements for our school and if you apply to other schools, we'll write a letter explaining".

given the time since taking these, the concern that the advanced classes wouldn't be sufficient b/c of the number of credit hours, and the obvious lack of mastery of those subjects the first time around, I decided to retake all gen chem and gen bio. I'm very glad I did.

my point in posting is just to give an example of what it may look like numerically when we're talking GPA recovery. recovery mileage will vary depending on GPA, number of prior credits, and number of prior BCPM credits. the lower the starting GPA, and the higher the number of credits previously obtained, the more work you will need to do now to get yourself to the place where you can apply.

 

[missjackson]

Retaking the core BCMP pre-reqs is obviously in the plan. But what about taking an "easier" general math class or two (like trig or coll algebra) to help bump up that gpa? Are there any other classes that I might take along side the harder core classes that a) won't be super time consuming and b) won't look like mickey mouse courses on my app, but will help me out in upping the GPA?

 

[waytogo]

Just taking easy classes to improve your GPA sounds like a bad idea. It will also be obvious. The classes that you propose are a step back, they will also be the most recent. I am sure that is going to draw suspicion and questions. How would you explain that? Do you have a reason aside from pulling up your GPA? I also think that it would appear like you are not confident in your ability to do well in the harder classes (this is the exact opposite of what you need to show.) I would talk with an advisor before doing anything else. If you take a mixture, it may be more appropriate but I dont know. Good Luck!

 

[MSmentor018]

the 3.94 is all of the pre-reqs- 2 bio + lab, 2 chem + lab, 2 organic, 1 organic lab, 2 physics + lab. I'll be taking some upper level bios this year as I'm applying.

the UG 2.47 BCPM included calc and stats, and then some wonky advanced gen chem and advanced gen bio classes I was in- "advanced" meaning "both semesters smashed into one semester and you only get 5 credit hours, but this meets the med school requirements for our school and if you apply to other schools, we'll write a letter explaining".

given the time since taking these, the concern that the advanced classes wouldn't be sufficient b/c of the number of credit hours, and the obvious lack of mastery of those subjects the first time around, I decided to retake all gen chem and gen bio. I'm very glad I did.

my point in posting is just to give an example of what it may look like numerically when we're talking GPA recovery. recovery mileage will vary depending on GPA, number of prior credits, and number of prior BCPM credits. the lower the starting GPA, and the higher the number of credits previously obtained, the more work you will need to do now to get yourself to the place where you can apply.

3.9 is awesome! keep up the good work...from your history I am sure your soon to be upper level A will help the 2.4. amcas will show the low gpa but I don't think the secondaries do. I remember only plugging in the pre reqs on the secondaries and skipping the rest b/c my gpa went up quite a bit and no one in my interviews asked me abouti . as for explaining the diff between your numbers.....just walk into the interview and take it on the chin. I was asked about a few C's. no deep explanations, just a simple that was then, this is now, how I improved, and what I did to excel.

 

[boko0123]

make sure, I repeat for emphasis, MAKE SURE that you do not earn any grades less than B+ in any of the courses that you repeat. A string of repeats with mediocre grades can tank your application.

reading that sent a stab through my heart (although it's something i guess i knew ...) i failed physics (electromagnetics) at my engineering school (calculus based and a requirement for the BS degree), retook it again and made a C ... needless to say, i have a lame UG GPA that is probably a 3.1 now with the post bac pre-reqs i'm taking. the advisor i spoke with recommended that i retake electromagnetics (non-calculus), along with non-calculus physics I (which i also made a C in). would you agree, or should i attempt taking a higher level physics course while i'm taking my pre-reqs? taking a physics course 3 times seems really bad, but then considering how physics is not one of my strengths, taking an upper level physics course seems like a big risk.

thanks for any input ...! >_<

 

[Dianyla]

I don't have a spreadsheet available, although I have seen some sort of grade calculator around here.. but to give anecdotal info...

There's a few calculator spreadsheets posted around. I like the one posted here the best.