Can my program not give me 3 weeks of vacation time?

[serimeri]

I was planning on getting married soon and was waiting for my last week of vacation. Well found out my program has changed some of my rotations around and I can't take my last week of vacation for the rest of the year due to rotation attendance requirements. Is this legal, per the GME? I was going to have a rotation in May that would have allowed me to take a week off, but due to several faculty members leaving, I have a rotation where no vacation request is granted. I was wondering if anyone has any tips on this? Do you guys recommend I talk to my PD or Chief about this? We're going to be having a very inexpensive wedding but I at least wanted to be able to have some time together for a small honeymoon.

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[rokshana]

I was planning on getting married soon and was waiting for my last week of vacation. Well found out my program has changed some of my rotations around and I can't take my last week of vacation for the rest of the year due to rotation attendance requirements. Is this legal, per the GME? I was going to have a rotation in May that would have allowed me to take a week off, but due to several faculty members leaving, I have a rotation where no vacation request is granted. I was wondering if anyone has any tips on this? Do you guys recommend I talk to my PD or Chief about this? We're going to be having a very inexpensive wedding but I at least wanted to be able to have some time together for a small honeymoon.

are they saying that you have to take that week at another time? Technically the program can tell you when you can take your vacation time (though most programs will at least ask when you prefer to take your vacation, but they cannot short you your vacation time (or make you take it the next year), that is against ACGME guidelines.

 

[Smurfette]

Not every residency program has the same number of weeks of vacation, so I don't know if there is a "minimum number of vacation weeks" mandated by ACGME.

I would review your contract and ask the GME office what the policy is. If you are contractually obligated to have one more week of vacation, they should help you out in achieving that (although as rokshana says, you may not have a choice as to which week). You also may want to talk with whoever re-did the schedule and mention that you are going to be short a vacation week as a result...it's possible they didn't think about this and others may have similar issues, or that they will have to give exceptions to the policy given the situation (assuming you'd still meet RRC requirements).

 

[serimeri]

are they saying that you have to take that week at another time? Technically the program can tell you when you can take your vacation time (though most programs will at least ask when you prefer to take your vacation, but they cannot short you your vacation time (or make you take it the next year), that is against ACGME guidelines.

Well I'm a current intern and have taken two weeks already. The rule is you need to submit a request for your vacation and it has to be approved by PD & the chair of the department. For Psych, we do a few off service rotations(that's usually the best time to do it) but the thing is that the rotations I have left do not have any vacation time approved (I need to get coverage which is hard to do).

 

[rokshana]

Well I'm a current intern and have taken two weeks already. The rule is you need to submit a request for your vacation and it has to be approved by PD & the chair of the department. For Psych, we do a few off service rotations(that's usually the best time to do it) but the thing is that the rotations I have left do not have any vacation time approved (I need to get coverage which is hard to do).

does your GME give everyone 3 weeks...as Smurfette pointed out not every residency program gives the same number of weeks, but that is set by a hospital's GME office (so all the programs at a hospital have a set minimum that they must give, but have the flexibility to give more up to the ACGME maximum of 4 weeks off /year). HOW they allow you to take that is up to the program.

I believe the ACGME minimum is 2 weeks (but to lazy to look it up 🙂 )...agree with smurfette, talk to the scheduler (usually one of your chiefs) and point out that the current schedule leaves you with a week vacation time. Its very easy to miss when you are trying to make up a schedule for a whole residency program. Otherwise start looking for coverage...the good thing is that as an intern you can ask your seniors if they would be willing to cover you.

 

[Rehab_dr]

I was planning on getting married soon and was waiting for my last week of vacation. Well found out my program has changed some of my rotations around and I can't take my last week of vacation for the rest of the year due to rotation attendance requirements. Is this legal, per the GME? I was going to have a rotation in May that would have allowed me to take a week off, but due to several faculty members leaving, I have a rotation where no vacation request is granted. I was wondering if anyone has any tips on this? Do you guys recommend I talk to my PD or Chief about this? We're going to be having a very inexpensive wedding but I at least wanted to be able to have some time together for a small honeymoon.

The answer to your question depends. ACGME requires no less than 2 weeks. The avg program gives more than 2 weeks, and I personally think it's essential and healthy for interns and other residents to have time off to relax the mind and soul. With that said it also depends what your contract says re: number of vacation weeks. If your contract says 3, then you are entitled to 3, and everyone else will get 3, so no reason why you should get 2. Not only is is not cool for your program to do that, but it's also not legal if everyone else is getting more time off. If you are only getting 2 per your contract, which few programs do but there are some!, then you are out of luck. Review contract and see.

If not, they should allow for an extra vacation week in your next year which I think is fair.

 

[serimeri]

The GME policy says that it is always at the sole descretion of my program and the PD.

 

[Rehab_dr]

The GME policy says that it is always at the sole descretion of my program and the PD.

It doesn't say how many weeks you are allowed? That doesn't seem typical. I have never seen a contract where the # of weeks are not specified. How many weeks are your co residents getting?

 

[serimeri]

It doesn't say how many weeks you are allowed? That doesn't seem typical. I have never seen a contract where the # of weeks are not specified. How many weeks are your co residents getting?

We are all suppose to be getting 21 days of vacation during intern year. My co-residents are trying to split it up in small intervals to get the vacation but we are all getting less than the 21 days for sure.

 

[Law2Doc]

Talk to your chief. It is not productive to ask SDN about something like this where we don't have access to your contract or know what everyone else is getting. In my experience sometimes when people feel they aren't getting enough vacation they aren't appreciating some of the long weekends, conference trip time, personal days, etc they've already gotten along the way. It's kind of rare that a chief creates a schedule where some people get all their vacation and others don't. Not impossible but would be unusual. But they are your resource on this. Talk to them about it.

 

[Crayola227]

most specialties do have a minimum # of weeks mandated by ACGME (I hesitate to say all)
and most boards have a maximum they allow without extending training time

all programs will be between those 2 numbers if they are constrained in this manner

so no, it is not entirely at the program's discretion, although certainly aspects of it are like timing or whether they can grant more than minimum or what is in contract

I could imagine if the range allowed by the two bodies above means say 2-4 weeks possible, a contract could be written to say you get 2-4 weeks and people could get differing amounts off and life isn't fair, vs a contract guaranteeing everyone 2 weeks

read your contract, gently bring up the situation, and accept any answer gracefully, remember you are an indentured slave. just be glad you have permission to marry, back in the time of Osler trainees couldn't marry until after their training

DISCLAIMER: I could be wrong about the above

 

[kchan99]

Programs do change vacation schedules. I remember having to change my vacation schedule due to service coverage issues when a resident left my program in the middle of the year. I postponed my vacation for several weeks, which was into the next year. I should mention that I did so voluntarily. It ended up working in my advantage because my vacation weeks ended up being in the off-peak season.

 

[Rehab_dr]

We are all suppose to be getting 21 days of vacation during intern year. My co-residents are trying to split it up in small intervals to get the vacation but we are all getting less than the 21 days for sure.

21 days? Yikes that's a lot of vacation. Does that include sick days or what? We only got 10 days of vacation intern year, PGY2-4 we get 15 (Mon-Fri, 3 weeks). So count your blessings. Not sure how 21 days works out? Are you counting 3 weeks as 7 days per week Mon-Sun or what? If that's the case that would make more sense.
Most programs don't allow splitting up vacation like that, most programs do 1 week blocks. Some if not many places also don't guarantee weekends of vacation weeks, although typically that can be worked out among residents.

It's hard to comment because I would be surprised if your contract did not make specific statements about this. So go look at your contract, and talk to your chief.

 

[hamstergang]

21 days? Yikes that's a lot of vacation. Does that include sick days or what? We only got 10 days of vacation intern year, PGY2-4 we get 15 (Mon-Fri, 3 weeks). So count your blessings. Not sure how 21 days works out? Are you counting 3 weeks as 7 days per week Mon-Sun or what? If that's the case that would make more sense.

It really varies a lot. At my program we get 20 vacation days (supposed to be taken as 4 one-week blocks), plus 3 float vacation days, plus 12 sick days each year (and the sick days carry over from year to year).

 

[shoal007]

I think most program consider Saturday and Sunday vacation days.

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

21 days? Yikes that's a lot of vacation. Does that include sick days or what? We only got 10 days of vacation intern year, PGY2-4 we get 15 (Mon-Fri, 3 weeks). So count your blessings. Not sure how 21 days works out? Are you counting 3 weeks as 7 days per week Mon-Sun or what? If that's the case that would make more sense.
Most programs don't allow splitting up vacation like that, most programs do 1 week blocks. Some if not many places also don't guarantee weekends of vacation weeks, although typically that can be worked out among residents.

It's hard to comment because I would be surprised if your contract did not make specific statements about this. So go look at your contract, and talk to your chief.

Yikes?
Your program screwed you intern year.
We get 15 days, my former program we had 20 days.

 

[j4pac]

ENTER..."When I was an intern I lived in the hospital, worked 168 hours per week, 365 days per year, and rounded on patients by candlelight."

 

[Raryn]

21 days? Yikes that's a lot of vacation. Does that include sick days or what? We only got 10 days of vacation intern year, PGY2-4 we get 15 (Mon-Fri, 3 weeks). So count your blessings. Not sure how 21 days works out? Are you counting 3 weeks as 7 days per week Mon-Sun or what? If that's the case that would make more sense.
Most programs don't allow splitting up vacation like that, most programs do 1 week blocks. Some if not many places also don't guarantee weekends of vacation weeks, although typically that can be worked out among residents.

It's hard to comment because I would be surprised if your contract did not make specific statements about this. So go look at your contract, and talk to your chief.

My program gives us 20 weekdays a year. Unless your vacation is scheduled during the holidays (either Thanksgiving or Xmas), you're pretty much guaranteed that the rotations are structured such that you'll have the weekend before and after your week of vacation off. So in a typical year, you might get a block of 16 days (2 weeks including the weekend before) and two blocks of 9 days (week+weekend) that you can take a trip.

Too many people take off from electives on the holidays that we don't have enough cross coverage left if everyone got the weekend before and after the trip, so that's the reason for the exception.

 

[IlDestriero]

We had 3 weeks plus a couple days for training and a meeting. So 4 weeks.
That's BS that they only give some people 2 weeks.

 

[Rehab_dr]

Yes, I absolutely agree with you that we got screwed intern year. I thought it was absolutely ridiculous. We now get 15 days so 3 weeks and the weekends before and after, and typically I have been able to get the Friday before the weekend by just rounding and then being allowed to go, but totally agree that it's ridiculous. I think the 4 week thing is more a New England/Midwest/west coast thing, I had that amount of vacation in a previous program, but not in this one.

Yikes?
Your program screwed you intern year.
We get 15 days, my former program we had 20 days.

 

[Rehab_dr]

ENTER..."When I was an intern I lived in the hospital, worked 168 hours per week, 365 days per year, and rounded on patients by candlelight."

No, not at all. I make it a rule to not do that, probably I am one of the residents in my program that has the best hours because I refuse to do exactly what you describe above. I have NEVER reached the 80 hour limit, I typically get out by 5pm, and I am very efficient and have a great quality of life, despite the fact that my program does not have the best hours typically for most other residents.

 

[j4pac]

No, not at all. I make it a rule to not do that, probably I am one of the residents in my program that has the best hours because I refuse to do exactly what you describe above. I have NEVER reached the 80 hour limit, I typically get out by 5pm, and I am very efficient and have a great quality of life, despite the fact that my program does not have the best hours typically for most other residents.

You're in PM&R. I would hope that you wouldn't come close to approaching pre-ACGME hours.

 

[Rehab_dr]

You're in PM&R. I would hope that you wouldn't come close to approaching pre-ACGME hours.

How many hours a week do you work? What time do you come in? You'd be shocked to find out what times we are forced to come in.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

How many hours a week do you work? What time do you come in? You'd be shocked to find out what times we are forced to come in.

0700?

 

[j4pac]

How many hours a week do you work? What time do you come in? You'd be shocked to find out what times we are forced to come in.

What I said was a complete joke. It was a reference to the good old days of medicine when residents were called residents for a reason. Those days sucked...and no we can't compare our schedules to their schedules.

I understand that PM&R can have longer hours, especially in particular programs, particularly PGY-2. But even an 80 hour work week at BCOM doesn't touch what residents did 50 years ago.

 

[Rehab_dr]

What I said was a complete joke. It was a reference to the good old days of medicine when residents were called residents for a reason. Those days sucked...and no we can't compare our schedules to their schedules.

I understand that PM&R can have longer hours, especially in particular programs, particularly PGY-2. But even an 80 hour work week at BCOM doesn't touch what residents did 50 years ago.

Yes I understood what you meant certainly. I wasn't being snippy by asking you those questions, I was actually asking truthfully to find out.

 

[j4pac]

Yes I understood what you meant certainly. I wasn't being snippy by asking you those questions, I was actually asking truthfully to find out.

Depends on what you refer to work. I worked about 70 hours a week as an intern...showed up around 0545 each morning and left 1800-1900 most days 5.5-6 days/week. I also worked an absolutely brutal 30 hour q3d ICU rotation in which I may have slept 30 min/night. It was dangerous for me and my patients.

I current job is 0700-1600...sometimes a little longer. I am on home call 24/365 covering mishaps and fielding questions from patients and staff. I get called though out the day but don't usually have to go to the hospital after hours unless there is something bad going down.

I also am the primary caretaker of three young children as my wife goes to residency. I wake up with the baby throughout the night. I get them ready for the day and get them to school. I pick them up from school. I cook for them and get them ready for bed. There is chaos with all of the above.

Without question...internship was a cake walk compared the combo of raising my children without practically any support and working my day job. I can't remember the last time I slept past 0700 or got more than 8 hours per sleep. Probably internship.

Next year I'll start PM&R PGY-2. My wife will be out of residency and doing the lionshare of the childcare. My life will undoubtably be easier.

 

[Rehab_dr]

Depends on what you refer to work. I worked about 70 hours a week as an intern...showed up around 0545 each morning and left 1800-1900 most days 5.5-6 days/week. I also worked an absolutely brutal 30 hour q3d ICU rotation in which I may have slept 30 min/night. It was dangerous for me and my patients.

I current job is 0700-1600...sometimes a little longer. I am on home call 24/365 covering mishaps and fielding questions from patients and staff. I get called though out the day but don't usually have to go to the hospital after hours unless there is something bad going down.

I also am the primary caretaker of three young children as my wife goes to residency. I wake up with the baby throughout the night. I get them ready for the day and get them to school. I pick them up from school. I cook for them and get them ready for bed. There is chaos with all of the above.

Without question...internship was a cake walk compared the combo of raising my children without practically any support and working my day job. I can't remember the last time I slept past 0700 or got more than 8 hours per sleep. Probably internship.

Next year I'll start PM&R PGY-2. My wife will be out of residency and doing the lionshare of the childcare. My life will undoubtably be easier.

I don't understand - you are an intern now? How is life brutal working 7-4pm? You say you start PGY-2 in PMR - so that would mean you are an intern or no? Confused sorry. And I'm not talking about your personal life i'm clearly taking about your residency program.

 

[QofQuimica]

I was planning on getting married soon and was waiting for my last week of vacation. Well found out my program has changed some of my rotations around and I can't take my last week of vacation for the rest of the year due to rotation attendance requirements. Is this legal, per the GME? I was going to have a rotation in May that would have allowed me to take a week off, but due to several faculty members leaving, I have a rotation where no vacation request is granted. I was wondering if anyone has any tips on this? Do you guys recommend I talk to my PD or Chief about this? We're going to be having a very inexpensive wedding but I at least wanted to be able to have some time together for a small honeymoon.

Can you reschedule the wedding? Considering that you will be starting a new year in July and will have three weeks worth of vacation days again, how about a summer or fall wedding? (Here in FL, it's actually pretty common to do winter weddings too, for obvious reasons!) If you can't reschedule, then I agree with L2D: talk to your chiefs and/or coresidents to see if you can switch days around/arrange for alternative coverage.

 

[Law2Doc]

ENTER..."When I was an intern I lived in the hospital, worked 168 hours per week, 365 days per year, and rounded on patients by candlelight."

You guys got to use candlelight? Lucky bastards -- we used to have to round in the dark...

 

[j4pac]

I don't understand - you are an intern now? How is life brutal working 7-4pm? You say you start PGY-2 in PMR - so that would mean you are an intern or no? Confused sorry. And I'm not talking about your personal life i'm clearly taking about your residency program.

I'm a Naval Flight Surgeon. In the Navy you do general medical tours between internship and residency. I graduated med school in 2010...I've had to pay back my time as a general medical officer to be able to separate from the Navy to go into PM&R next year because Navy doesn't have a Navy PM&R program. Since I've finished an internship already, I'll be picking up at PGY-2 next year after matching advanced last year.

My 0700-1600 job is very doable, though very fast paced. It's really the combo of other life circumstances in addition to the job that is extremely busy and wearing. There are no vacations when you have young children. There is no sleeping in to bank sleep or catch up. There are very few moments of relaxation. It's a 24/365 grind that has lasts for years. Residency is more of a 12-14/300 type of situation.

 

[rokshana]

ENTER..."When I was an intern I lived in the hospital, worked 168 hours per week, 365 days per year, and rounded on patients by candlelight."

so my Dad tells me (surgical resident in the 60s)...he was quite amused by all my trials and tribulations as a resident...

 

[DrJavaSunflower]

I have a question about benefits - never really thought about them until now.

Some programs have PTO 20 days and did not disclose sick days nor professional allowance. Some programs have 20 vacation and 12 sick leaves. My question is if I can take all 12 sick days as a resident to make it 32 days vacation? Also, is it possible for some residency programs not to give sick leaves and professional allowance?

Thanks.

 

[mimelim]

I will never understand this. Every single one of these questions can be answered by looking at a) your contract b) GME policies and c) ACGME rules. There is no guesswork here. Did you guys not learn about looking at source/primary documents in middle school? I see this among many of my junior residents here. It isn't like they are lazy. They just don't know to go looking...

 

[gutonc]

I have a question about benefits - never really thought about them until now.

Some programs have PTO 20 days and did not disclose sick days nor professional allowance. Some programs have 20 vacation and 12 sick leaves. My question is if I can take all 12 sick days as a resident to make it 32 days vacation? Also, is it possible for some residency programs not to give sick leaves and professional allowance?

Sure...go ahead....

Be sure to come back and let us know how that worked out at contract renewal time. The 32 vacation days you get that first year is going to seem like a joke compared to the 365 you'll get your second year.

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

I have a question about benefits - never really thought about them until now.

Some programs have PTO 20 days and did not disclose sick days nor professional allowance. Some programs have 20 vacation and 12 sick leaves. My question is if I can take all 12 sick days as a resident to make it 32 days vacation? Also, is it possible for some residency programs not to give sick leaves and professional allowance?

Thanks.

Sure you can, your program can also request a doctors note as well.
If you take all of your sick days as vacation days many things will happen...

You'll set a poor lifetime habit
You'll put yourself under the microscope when you are actually sick and call into work.
Your program may change there sick day rule because of your actions.
You will be "that guy" who others don't want to work with because they have to carry your lazy ass.

This is all common real world sense. This is one reason I think people should have actual jobs before attending medical school. There would probably be less griping in residency.

 

[Rehab_dr]

I always find this absurd. Sick days are there for a reason. It does not mean you are dying and going to the ED to be sick. Sometimes you have bad gastro, or a bad flu, or you have a terrible migraine, or you sprained your ankle, etc. Many things can happen where you are not dying yet you should not be going to work. If you can't take sick days there should not be available. I think it's perfectly reasonable to take them if you are sick and I think it's understood tha tyou are not necessarily going to the dr every time you are sick. I've had a number of times where I've had to leave early for dr's appts, or had had minor procedures - none where likely to cause death, or for me to be hospitalized, but still needed to be done. To think that as drs we can't take sick days, when we hold up discharges for absurd things all the time is preposterous. Drs are allowed a life and health. Plenty of people take the entirety of their sick days. If your program really can't tolerate you taking sick days that's not a program worth being in.

Sure you can, your program can also request a doctors note as well.
If you take all of your sick days as vacation days many things will happen...

You'll set a poor lifetime habit
You'll put yourself under the microscope when you are actually sick and call into work.
Your program may change there sick day rule because of your actions.
You will be "that guy" who others don't want to work with because they have to carry your lazy ass.

This is all common real world sense. This is one reason I think people should have actual jobs before attending medical school. There would probably be less griping in residency.

 

[IlDestriero]

I always find this absurd. Sick days are there for a reason. It does not mean you are dying and going to the ED to be sick. Sometimes you have bad gastro, or a bad flu, or you have a terrible migraine, or you sprained your ankle, etc. Many things can happen where you are not dying yet you should not be going to work. If you can't take sick days there should not be available. I think it's perfectly reasonable to take them if you are sick and I think it's understood tha tyou are not necessarily going to the dr every time you are sick. I've had a number of times where I've had to leave early for dr's appts, or had had minor procedures - none where likely to cause death, or for me to be hospitalized, but still needed to be done. To think that as drs we can't take sick days, when we hold up discharges for absurd things all the time is preposterous. Drs are allowed a life and health. Plenty of people take the entirety of their sick days. If your program really can't tolerate you taking sick days that's not a program worth being in.

If you "take the entirety of your sick days" in my group, you will find yourself polishing up your CV before too long. When you're not working, someone has to work in your place and/or schedule changes need to be made up to and including closing an OR, etc. See how well that goes over with the surgeons or your partners.
If you're sick, you better be very sick or contagious.

 

[gutonc]

I always find this absurd. Sick days are there for a reason. It does not mean you are dying and going to the ED to be sick. Sometimes you have bad gastro, or a bad flu, or you have a terrible migraine, or you sprained your ankle, etc. Many things can happen where you are not dying yet you should not be going to work. If you can't take sick days there should not be available. I think it's perfectly reasonable to take them if you are sick and I think it's understood tha tyou are not necessarily going to the dr every time you are sick. I've had a number of times where I've had to leave early for dr's appts, or had had minor procedures - none where likely to cause death, or for me to be hospitalized, but still needed to be done. To think that as drs we can't take sick days, when we hold up discharges for absurd things all the time is preposterous. Drs are allowed a life and health. Plenty of people take the entirety of their sick days. If your program really can't tolerate you taking sick days that's not a program worth being in.

You'll note that, in this thread, nobody is suggesting that you can't take the sick days afforded you in your contract.

Rather, a poster asked if he could lie about being sick and score an extra 2+ weeks of vacation. Everyone (except you) is saying that is a great way to get your ass fired.

Take away from this thread what you wull, but at least put on your junior high reading comprehension glasses first.

 

[rokshana]

I always find this absurd. Sick days are there for a reason. It does not mean you are dying and going to the ED to be sick. Sometimes you have bad gastro, or a bad flu, or you have a terrible migraine, or you sprained your ankle, etc. Many things can happen where you are not dying yet you should not be going to work. If you can't take sick days there should not be available. I think it's perfectly reasonable to take them if you are sick and I think it's understood tha tyou are not necessarily going to the dr every time you are sick. I've had a number of times where I've had to leave early for dr's appts, or had had minor procedures - none where likely to cause death, or for me to be hospitalized, but still needed to be done. To think that as drs we can't take sick days, when we hold up discharges for absurd things all the time is preposterous. Drs are allowed a life and health. Plenty of people take the entirety of their sick days. If your program really can't tolerate you taking sick days that's not a program worth being in.

did you miss the part about SICK DAYS AS VACATION DAYS??
and lol...PM&R might be cool with that, but there is a WHOLE thread on this topic that says most other specialties would beg to differ...

and if someone to ALL that time off in one year the bigger problem will be that you would exceed the max time the ACGME allows you to miss as a resident...you can huff and puff all you want about wanting a life, but the ACGME says you can only miss 4 weeks a year...miss more and your residency time will be extended.

 

[Rehab_dr]

did you miss the part about SICK DAYS AS VACATION DAYS??
and lol...PM&R might be cool with that, but there is a WHOLE thread on this topic that says most other specialties would beg to differ...

and if someone to ALL that time off in one year the bigger problem will be that you would exceed the max time the ACGME allows you to miss as a resident...you can huff and puff all you want about wanting a life, but the ACGME says you can only miss 4 weeks a year...miss more and your residency time will be extended.

First of all, don't be so condescending to other specialties. What is your problem with PMR? Coming from a specialty like Endo yourself, I wouldn't consider yourself so high and mighty given that it's one of the least competitive specialties out there, where depts have to look to the ends of the earth for fellows.

Second, most specialties are fine with it. I have never heard of any program giving a resident a hard time over taking a sick day. Sick days are there to be used. And no, you are incorrect - ACGME allows 6! not 4 weeks to be missed every year without having to do extra training.

Learn to be polite and gracious when responding to others' opinions. That's what professional people do. It seems you have an issue with everyone, goodness.

 

[Rehab_dr]

You'll note that, in this thread, nobody is suggesting that you can't take the sick days afforded you in your contract.

Rather, a poster asked if he could lie about being sick and score an extra 2+ weeks of vacation. Everyone (except you) is saying that is a great way to get your ass fired.

Take away from this thread what you wull, but at least put on your junior high reading comprehension glasses first.

I said it's fine to take your sick days, as many as are available. I wouldn't think twice about taking a sick day if I did not feel well. I never suggested "lying" I suggested that no, you don't need a doctor's note nor do you need to be dying or in the ED as some people have suggested to take a sick day. A program who's willing to fire a resident for him/her taking a sick day is worthless.

 

[DrJavaSunflower]

This is all common real world sense. This is one reason I think people should have actual jobs before attending medical school. There would probably be less griping in residency.

I had a real job with a six figure earning before med school and yes, everyone at my previous work place used sick days to the fullest. I have family members who are attending docs and they use their sick days all the time. I asked this question because I wanted to know how things are done as a lowly resident.

I don't understand why other comments have to be so condescending.

 

[gutonc]

I had a real job with a six figure earning before med school and yes, everyone at my previous work place used sick days to the fullest. I have family members who are attending docs and they use their sick days all the time. I asked this question because I wanted to know how things are done as a lowly resident.

Feel free to do so as an attending. Expect non-renewal if you do so as a resident.

 

[Rehab_dr]

I had a real job with a six figure earning before med school and yes, everyone at my previous work place used sick days to the fullest. I have family members who are attending docs and they use their sick days all the time. I asked this question because I wanted to know how things are done as a lowly resident.

I had a previous attending, who happened to be the program director, who always happened to be "sick" on holidays and post holiday days. Enough said.

Feel free to do so as an attending. Expect non-renewal if you do so as a resident.

Out of curiosity here, how would you expect that they would not renew a resident's contract because he/she took their sick days?

 

[gutonc]

I said it's fine to take your sick days, as many as are available. I wouldn't think twice about taking a sick day if I did not feel well. I never suggested "lying" I suggested that no, you don't need a doctor's note nor do you need to be dying or in the ED as some people have suggested to take a sick day. A program who's willing to fire a resident for him/her taking a sick day is worthless.

But that's what DrJavaSunflower suggested. Lying about being sick to get an extra 2 weeks of vacation.

Again...nobody here (except you) is talking about getting fired for taking a sick day or 3.

 

[Law2Doc]

... I have never heard of any program giving a resident a hard time over taking a sick day. Sick days are there to be used...

You need to get out more my friend. There are plenty of programs that make pretty clear that though you get X number of sick days, you had better be essentially incapacitated to use them if you value your career, and if it's something you can mask and glove up and work around you really ought to still show up. There are plenty of stories on here of residents rounding with IV poles. Part is culture, part is that programs can be so lean that you screw others out of elective time or create ACGME duty hour violations when other people have to cover for you, so being out sick doesn't just impact you. But you are kidding yourself if you think all (or even most) residency programs are so free with their sick days. Many of us, though catching the gamut of colds and flus each year, never took a sick day in residency, in part because we saw the impact and backlash after others tried that.

 

[Law2Doc]

Feel free to do so as an attending. Expect non-renewal if you do so as a resident.

It's not without cost as an attending either, BTW. Someone still has to cover for you and you'll still have bosses who "evaluate" you on productivity and performance. And you might have more significant financial reasons not to give up shifts.

 

[Rehab_dr]

But that's what DrJavaSunflower suggested. Lying about being sick to get an extra 2 weeks of vacation.

Again...nobody here (except you) is talking about getting fired for taking a sick day or 3.

Or 3 or 12 - 12 being the avg # of days most programs give. I know numerous residents throughout numerous programs who consistently take those sick days and even in my program and several other specialty programs at my institution and everyone is in good standing with no issues.

 

[Rehab_dr]

You need to get out more my friend. There are plenty of programs that make pretty clear that though you get X number of sick days, you had better be essentially incapacitated to use them if you value your career, and if it's something you can mask and glove up and work around you really ought to still show up. There are plenty of stories on here of residents rounding with IV poles. Part is culture, part is that programs can be so lean that you screw others out of elective time or create ACGME duty hour violations when other people have to cover for you, so being out sick doesn't just impact you. But you are kidding yourself if you think all (or even most) residency programs are so free with their sick days. Many of us, though catching the gamut of colds and flus each year, never took a sick day in residency, in part because we saw the impact and backlash after others tried that.

I think times have changed. As someone else pointed out, it's no longer the 1960's where residents need to work 100hours per week, 365 days of the year. If you don't care about your own health and your own time I suppose that's your choice and I can respect that. I value both, and know many others who do as well. So if you don't feel well - don't come in. Rounding with a pole is preposterous. Previously I did have that mentality but things have changed and I would never again go back to the mentality of we have to work ourselves silly. In a previous program, I literally had an abscess that I had to get incised - I took about 2 hours, had the procedure done, and went back to my program afterwards. Quite a miserable experience. I have learned to value my health and my time. Just like we coddle patients excessively, we need to take care of ourselves first. Not doing so is why ther eis sooo much physician burnt out and why so many physicians are so darn miserable.